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SD Remix - 3.3 Full with Slippi Rollback Released!

smoothjazzyet

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I tried again and i'm sure i didnt do a mistake. Last time i think i failed at the part when i have to copy sd remix files to the root of melee, cause i actually replaced start.dol and maybe i should'nt have (it's written main.dol in the guide though) so this time i only copied the files on the root folder of SDR, and pasted them on the root of melee + replacing them.
Besides that i did everything that was written in the guide and i'm sure i didnt mess, and still, my 2 melee games are 20XX packs, which i dont fkin understand as i didnt even touch the 20XX files :/
I'll try some tricks like trying another loader or kicking my 20XX iso and if it doesnt work i'll have to use the SD method then :/

EDIT: Ok, so when i remove my 20XX iso from my USB, SD remix works, but now i'll have to remove a game to play another
 
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Quillion

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If we bring this to Smash gatherings, should we offer to install the workings on people's Wiis ourselves? (Like we bring our own laptops to set stuff up)

I'm personally not worried about the bricking danger, but I'm apprehensive since the ISO or FST has to be constructed from an image obtained via shameful or semi-shameful methods.
 

sdremix_troubleshooter

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EDIT: Ok, so when i remove my 20XX iso from my USB, SD remix works, but now i'll have to remove a game to play another
I believe this is a solution:

- Go to this post: link
- Download _glook's boot.zip and extract it
- Place the boot.bin into the SD Remix folder's 'sys' file. Say yes when you are prompted to overwrite the file.

In your loader, 20XX and SD Remix should show up as two separate games now.
 

_glook

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If we bring this to Smash gatherings, should we offer to install the workings on people's Wiis ourselves? (Like we bring our own laptops to set stuff up)

I'm personally not worried about the bricking danger, but I'm apprehensive since the ISO or FST has to be constructed from an image obtained via shameful or semi-shameful methods.
I've considered doing this in the past, but I feel in order for it to be more useful, people need to be told ahead of time there will be a service to mod their Wiis. And I agree, bricking should only happen with a power failure, since the modding process is really simple.
As far as the shame issue, I don't think it would be a big concern as I'm guessing most people won't care, but if they do, you can rip an iso from your personal copy of Melee so you can tell them you at least got the iso from your own legally obtained copy. You can also insist that people actual own a copy of Melee if they want a copy of the SD Remix folder themselves.
If I were to ever host another SD Remix tournament, I would put in the thread that we will help mod their Wiis to work (and possibly test to see if their GCNs support the SD Media Launcher method). The stipulation in the thread would be that they need to bring a Wii that is up to date (as letterbombing requires the latest firmware) and either an SD card formatted to 64kb file allocation or a USB drive formatted to 32 kb allocation size with at least 2 GB free space (with an addendum that I'll format it for them if they don't mind losing all their data). At this point, I'd just need to make sure I have internet to letterbomb, all of the required homebrew to install DIOS MIOS, and a copy of the SD Remix folder to copy to their storage device. Streamlined, I think I could get through one Wii per half hour.

@ smoothjazzyet smoothjazzyet To add to what sdremix_troubleshooter said, if it still doesn't work, maybe consider changing the folder name to something like "MSDR01" or "GALE02". I've been able to get SD Remix and Vanilla SSBM to work off the same SD card, so it should at least be possible to do.
 

Quillion

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I've considered doing this in the past, but I feel in order for it to be more useful, people need to be told ahead of time there will be a service to mod their Wiis. And I agree, bricking should only happen with a power failure, since the modding process is really simple.
As far as the shame issue, I don't think it would be a big concern as I'm guessing most people won't care, but if they do, you can rip an iso from your personal copy of Melee so you can tell them you at least got the iso from your own legally obtained copy. You can also insist that people actual own a copy of Melee if they want a copy of the SD Remix folder themselves.
If I were to ever host another SD Remix tournament, I would put in the thread that we will help mod their Wiis to work (and possibly test to see if their GCNs support the SD Media Launcher method). The stipulation in the thread would be that they need to bring a Wii that is up to date (as letterbombing requires the latest firmware) and either an SD card formatted to 64kb file allocation or a USB drive formatted to 32 kb allocation size with at least 2 GB free space (with an addendum that I'll format it for them if they don't mind losing all their data). At this point, I'd just need to make sure I have internet to letterbomb, all of the required homebrew to install DIOS MIOS, and a copy of the SD Remix folder to copy to their storage device. Streamlined, I think I could get through one Wii per half hour.
Or you could bring a Brawl disc and use Smash Stack.
The SmashStack method is even better since most people use it for PM. If we use the SmashStack method, we could actually even hack Wii Us (in virtual Wii mode) too. So we have some hope there (at least until they discontinue the U and the NX is released...)

So I guess the full list of things we need to install would be:
  • HBC via any exploit
  • IOS 236 + IOS 36 to make it work (apparently some people need it and some don't; I needed it)
  • DIOS MIOS (would require a .wad manager) or Nintendont (less work)
    • We should also keep a copy of vMIOS for the former as a failsafe.
It truthfully isn't a lot of files.
At least we could prep Wiis for Gamecube loading one day, then distribute the SDR ISO the next (provided they actually own Melee, of course).
 
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CeLL

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At least we could prep Wiis for Gamecube loading one day, then distribute the SDR ISO the next (provided they actually own Melee, of course).
If I were doing this I would take their Melee disc, put it into the laptop disc drive, immediately open the disc drive without doing anything with it, and fake "pretend" that you ripped the ISO from their disc and made an SDR ISO with it. That way there is no question of any sort of legality lol
 

Quillion

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If I were doing this I would take their Melee disc, put it into the laptop disc drive, immediately open the disc drive without doing anything with it, and fake "pretend" that you ripped the ISO from their disc and made an SDR ISO with it. That way there is no question of any sort of legality lol
Sorry, I'm too honest to do that.

Thankfully I could easily run CleanRip on people's Melee discs to ease doubts, though this would take a lot longer.
 

Quillion

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At the very least, 20XXTE could encourage Wii modding if people see it as a demo for the full thing (even though it's not affiliated with the other 20XX).
 

TerryJ

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At the very least, 20XXTE could encourage Wii modding if people see it as a demo for the full thing (even though it's not affiliated with the other 20XX).
It's a dream of mine to see ISO loading from the memory card using an SD Gecko. Save the discs!
 

IronChar

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looks like PM is releasing another go- does anyone else find a new release of PM a bit soon?

I prefer the pace of development that SDR is going- its not like this game needs much to be the prefect game

-at least I should say, its near prefect already. a few elements from other games (all star versus if possible, better CPU, slight touches on FEW characters, minor tweaking)
 
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_glook

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IronChar post: 18867165 said:
looks like PM is releasing another go- does anyone else find a new release of PM a bit soon?

I prefer the pace of development that SDR is going- its not like this game needs much to be the prefect game
It seems to mostly be cosmetics, usability improvements, and new stages, so it seems fine. Though calling SDR a perfect game makes me antsy, because it's kind of a subjective thing and invites the unwanted type of criticism.
 

Quillion

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looks like PM is releasing another go- does anyone else find a new release of PM a bit soon?

I prefer the pace of development that SDR is going- its not like this game needs much to be the prefect game
I like SDR's subtle changes, too. And I know for a fact that there are many people who dislike PM's constant large changes.
 

Myougi

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It seems to mostly be cosmetics, usability improvements, and new stages, so it seems fine. Though calling SDR a perfect game makes me antsy, because it's kind of a subjective thing and invites the unwanted type of criticism.
Here's my analogy on the matter:

Melee is sliced bread, A simple delicacy.

SD Remix is buttered toast, an improved version of the previous iteration. It is still just sliced bread at it's core.

Project M is a hamburger. The PMDT more or less over did it. There's so many excess things the game feels unnatural and a little choppy. Some of the original qualities from sliced bread have been lost. The PMDT believes sliced bread is dead and that hamburger buns are the future. This is not really the case. Some players may prefer buns over bread, and thus they go their own route. Some are fine with both. It's personal preference.
 
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Quillion

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Hey @ sdremix_troubleshooter sdremix_troubleshooter : is it possible to currently focus efforts towards making more legal stages available? Ideally, it would be nice if every franchise has at least one "home" stage (except Fire Emblem and G&W because we're not at that point yet). No one's expecting a significant character-based change, so more legal stages would be a more reasonable expectation.

That could be reserved for SDR 3.2, though (with 3.1.1 just being reserved to 1.02 migration and ID change).
 

Myougi

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Hey @ sdremix_troubleshooter sdremix_troubleshooter : is it possible to currently focus efforts towards making more legal stages available? Ideally, it would be nice if every franchise has at least one "home" stage (except Fire Emblem and G&W because we're not at that point yet). No one's expecting a significant character-based change, so more legal stages would be a more reasonable expectation.

That could be reserved for SDR 3.2, though (with 3.1.1 just being reserved to 1.02 migration and ID change).
I would definitely like to see that, and I might be able to help make that happen. Jorgasms finished a code awhile back that removes stage hazards on MKII, making Milun's stage hack viable, so that might be a nice addition to SDR.

I have a question about MKII though, and this falls in line with your want for every character to have a legal home stage... sort of. I was thinking about modifying it and retexturing it into something completely different, possibly making the stage look like another franchise's stage. I'm not sure how everyone feels on stage retextures though.
 

Quillion

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I would definitely like to see that, and I might be able to help make that happen. Jorgasms finished a code awhile back that removes stage hazards on MKII, making Milun's stage hack viable, so that might be a nice addition to SDR.

I have a question about MKII though, and this falls in line with your want for every character to have a legal home stage... sort of. I was thinking about modifying it and retexturing it into something completely different, possibly making the stage look like another franchise's stage. I'm not sure how everyone feels on stage retextures though.
If you can somehow make it into a Fire Emblem stage that would be amazing.
 

_glook

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As long as we're making stage requests, the FD-like mushroom kingdom 2 with logs and birdo looks like a lot of fun to play. The Mushroom Kingdom 1 with the side pulley platforms and the reappearing 4 blocks at the top looks like a lot of fun too. They would be interesting to have as counter-pick stages, and it would give more flexibility in making a ruleset with fair stage banning.

Edit for reference:
MK2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScEx6hFB0_4
MK1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWt2y4aDiS8

Edit 2:
This stage would be a great replacement for the stage niche we lost when Kongo Jungle 64 was banned from Singles, which is the tweaked new Kongo Jungle (falls): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef9uJG25x60
 
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wha-ha-ha

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Hello Friends!

I just picked this game up today and I am absolutely in love so far (Ness <3333333)! Planning on trying to bring it by locals and such in my area. Keep up the good work!

xoxo
 
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Myougi

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As long as we're making stage requests, the FD-like mushroom kingdom 2 with logs and birdo looks like a lot of fun to play. The Mushroom Kingdom 1 with the side pulley platforms and the reappearing 4 blocks at the top looks like a lot of fun too. They would be interesting to have as counter-pick stages, and it would give more flexibility in making a ruleset with fair stage banning.

Edit for reference:
MK2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScEx6hFB0_4
MK1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWt2y4aDiS8

Edit 2:
This stage would be a great replacement for the stage niche we lost when Kongo Jungle 64 was banned from Singles, which is the tweaked new Kongo Jungle (falls): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef9uJG25x60
Milun's MK1 might be a viable addition, but it also has some issues with spawns from my experience. Milun's MK2 is fine as long as Jorgasm's code to turn off stage hazards is injected. I need to look into it though, I'd really love to be able to keep the logs on the stage (his code removes them along with Pigot and Birdo).
Kongo should be fine to add, but the stage has kind of janky ledges since characters can pass though the bottom and parts of the stage dynamically move based on character position. It's annoying.

Verdict: NO STAGES
#BANNED
 

♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡

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_glook

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Milun's MK1 might be a viable addition, but it also has some issues with spawns from my experience. Milun's MK2 is fine as long as Jorgasm's code to turn off stage hazards is injected. I need to look into it though, I'd really love to be able to keep the logs on the stage (his code removes them along with Pigot and Birdo).
Kongo should be fine to add, but the stage has kind of janky ledges since characters can pass though the bottom and parts of the stage dynamically move based on character position. It's annoying.

Verdict: NO STAGES
#BANNED
Yeah, the spawns on MK1 are a bit weird, but maybe that can be taken care of by always insisting people do neutral port while playing? That might make it better.
I don't think Birdo was a huge issue back when MK2 was legal in Melee. S/he came out slowly and there was a lot of time to adjust to it being on the screen, and catching the eggs was fun (though I guess they were pretty powerful when thrown). Pigot does cause a bit of disruption with his fast floating platform, but I don't think it necessarily breaks gameplay, just an extra thing to think about when he's there. I can see it where some people would ban it completely, as our tolerance of stage hazards as a community have gone down, but it still could work. The only super objectionable thing I see is that the eggs are like guaranteed kill if you catch one and hit someone at 50%+; maybe if it were only guaranteed at like 150%, it could be better (I would be sad to see the eggs gone completely, but that would be okay too).
On Kongo, I agree that passthrough floors are very different, but I kinda miss how that affected the gameplay. It does give advantage to certain characters, but it also can give you some fun situations, too, that we never see anymore since Kongo Jungle 64 and Mute City were banned. Plus, I really like the platform orientation, something we don't have in the current stageset.

I guess my imagining of what the stage ruleset would be is:
Neutrals: Final Destination, Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Dreamland64, Green Greens
Counter-picks: Yoshi's Story 64, Fourside, Fountain of Dreams, Kongo Jungle (Falls), Mushroom Kingdom 1
Permissive: Pokemon Stadium (w/ Transformations), Mushroom Kingdom 2

The first match in a set would just stage strike with the neutrals (GG replacing FoD, which IMO makes it a more neutral list). The winner of matches then would get 1 Neutral and 1 Counter-pick ban, with the ability to trade one of the bans to ban all Permissive stages.

Though the stage ban ruleset is one reason I want the stages there, the two main reasons are that they (re)introduce interesting and different stage niches, and also they look super fun.
 
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Myougi

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can we get a netplay group goin?
I'll get around to it eventually, but I'm going to talk with Anther about adding SDR to his netplay ladder. There's lots of players there (including me!). I'd wait until after 3.2 is completed though, since there's a lot of things that I'd like to add to the game to speed up booting/setting up the game (take out messages, boot to CSS, new Game ID, etc).

Since SDR doesn't have it's own Game ID right now, connecting to others would be an issue with conflicting Game IDs. We can just add one to the ISO.hdr that people inject that everyone can use (basically they just throw the file in the system folder when they are building the ISO - no extra hassle!). I suggest using the Game ID 'SDRE31', but that's just me. The E verifies the game is booted with NTSC settings in dolphin, the 31 (3.1) is the version number, and SDR is... well you can probably guess.
 
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♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡

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How would you like to see SD Remix represented in the 20XX Hackpack?

I personally would like the toggle switch being made more clear with text. Like it would read on the screen which patch one has selected (NTSC, PAL, SDR).

I was also wondering if there is something we could do to help Achilles with his efforts.
 

Quillion

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As long as we're making stage requests, the FD-like mushroom kingdom 2 with logs and birdo looks like a lot of fun to play. The Mushroom Kingdom 1 with the side pulley platforms and the reappearing 4 blocks at the top looks like a lot of fun too. They would be interesting to have as counter-pick stages, and it would give more flexibility in making a ruleset with fair stage banning.

Edit for reference:
MK2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScEx6hFB0_4
MK1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWt2y4aDiS8

Edit 2:
This stage would be a great replacement for the stage niche we lost when Kongo Jungle 64 was banned from Singles, which is the tweaked new Kongo Jungle (falls): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef9uJG25x60
Is it possible to simply remove Birdo, or does the hazard disable code have to disable everything else, too?
 

_glook

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can we get a netplay group goin?
In the meantime (meaning before the release of 3.2 or whatever SDR version that will make things easier to do NetPlay), maybe we could use IRC for people who feel like playing netplay? It would naturally be a ghost town to start with, but maybe having a place people agree to go to when they're in the mood for netplay, eventually two of us would be on at the same time, and maybe if there's one central place where people agree to go for netplay that is advertised as such (in various outlets), and as long as we have some sort of standardized procedure in place to get people in matches as quickly and seamlessly as possible, it could work. Once a netplay friendly version of SDR is released, this would all be obsolete as we could just use Dolphin's built in game-finding thing, but I don't know if I necessarily want to wait that long to get more SDR matches in.

For instance, we could just use rizon (irc.rizon.net) using the #sdremix channel (which seems to be free). The welcome message for the channel could have the point of the chat room (to connect people together for netplay), and the standard rules in place to make it possible:
- We should decide of the version of Dolphin we're gonna use.
- The SDR ISO should be based on the official build of SDR (meaning no game ID changes or any other changes).
- It should be the only copy of Melee in your ISO list so that Dolphin doesn't accidentally use different games.
- The Dolphin memory card slot should be empty (to avoid memory card sync issues).
- You should make sure to forward the relevant ports on your router.
- Asking for and confirming matches to be played should be done in the group chat instead of private, so everyone knows who is playing who and who's not AFK to begin with. This also helps so that people can get in line for a match to be played as well.
- Once a match is confirmed to be played, the setup for the match (ie. exchanging IPs, picking stages, etc) should be done in private chat to reduce clutter in the group chat.
- Probably want to stick to 1v1. Definitely no changing any of the default settings (which means 4 stock, no items, 8 minutes).
- Probably also have a link in the rules to an explanation on how to set up netplay to begin with.

That was just my initial thinking on the subject, I'd love to see this be a thing.
 

CeLL

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In the meantime (meaning before the release of 3.2 or whatever SDR version that will make things easier to do NetPlay), maybe we could use IRC for people who feel like playing netplay? It would naturally be a ghost town to start with, but maybe having a place people agree to go to when they're in the mood for netplay, eventually two of us would be on at the same time, and maybe if there's one central place where people agree to go for netplay that is advertised as such (in various outlets), and as long as we have some sort of standardized procedure in place to get people in matches as quickly and seamlessly as possible, it could work. Once a netplay friendly version of SDR is released, this would all be obsolete as we could just use Dolphin's built in game-finding thing, but I don't know if I necessarily want to wait that long to get more SDR matches in.

For instance, we could just use rizon (irc.rizon.net) using the #sdremix channel (which seems to be free). The welcome message for the channel could have the point of the chat room (to connect people together for netplay), and the standard rules in place to make it possible:
- We should decide of the version of Dolphin we're gonna use.
- The SDR ISO should be based on the official build of SDR (meaning no game ID changes or any other changes).
- It should be the only copy of Melee in your ISO list so that Dolphin doesn't accidentally use different games.
- The Dolphin memory card slot should be empty (to avoid memory card sync issues).
- You should make sure to forward the relevant ports on your router.
- Asking for and confirming matches to be played should be done in the group chat instead of private, so everyone knows who is playing who and who's not AFK to begin with. This also helps so that people can get in line for a match to be played as well.
- Once a match is confirmed to be played, the setup for the match (ie. exchanging IPs, picking stages, etc) should be done in private chat to reduce clutter in the group chat.
- Probably want to stick to 1v1. Definitely no changing any of the default settings (which means 4 stock, no items, 8 minutes).
- Probably also have a link in the rules to an explanation on how to set up netplay to begin with.

That was just my initial thinking on the subject, I'd love to see this be a thing.
http://www.Smashladder.com/Netplay/SDRemix (currently a ghost town)

If it gets super popular you might be able to get Anther to make an official ladder, which already happened with Smash 64 and is currently happening to Brawl.

I think a lot of people who would play SDR netplay would already play Melee netplay, so the whole no changing the game ID thing is not going to work. Period. If it's attempted to be forced it will either be ignored or you will lose probably 75%+ of SDR netplayers. The only thing not "netplay-friendly" about SDR 3.1 as it stands is the game ID. There are two Melee netplayers on Smashladder who actively search for SDR games already.

The best version of Dolphin for this is 4.0-5886 hands down (though it will change in the near future. The next master branch Dolphin official release will be the best yet). It has a ridiculous number of advantages over any official master branch release so far and several over the DC-Netplay branch as well, including significantly better performance (and thus lower hardware requirements) and lower input lag. Officially endorsed by Hungrybox himself. However, there are still some minor issues with it that come with being an incomplete dev build and as such you might decide to use the ONLY acceptable alternative, 4.0-652. IPs and port forwarding are irrelevant with these builds, and many people (especially university students) who cannot play netplay with the master builds can with these builds. Memory cards are irrelevant with 652, and in the future will be with 5886's successor.
 
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_glook

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http://www.Smashladder.com/Netplay/SDRemix (currently a ghost town)

If it gets super popular you might be able to get Anther to make an official ladder, which already happened with Smash 64 and is currently happening to Brawl.

I think a lot of people who would play SDR netplay would already play Melee netplay, so the whole no changing the game ID thing is not going to work. Period. If it's attempted to be forced it will either be ignored or you will lose probably 75%+ of SDR netplayers. The only thing not "netplay-friendly" about SDR 3.1 as it stands is the game ID. There are two Melee netplayers on Smashladder who actively search for SDR games already.

The best version of Dolphin for this is 4.0-5886 hands down (though it will change in the near future. The next master branch Dolphin official release will be the best yet). It has a ridiculous number of advantages over any official master branch release so far and several over the DC-Netplay branch as well, including significantly better performance (and thus lower hardware requirements) and lower input lag. Officially endorsed by Hungrybox himself. However, there are still some minor issues with it that come with being an incomplete dev build and as such you might decide to use the ONLY acceptable alternative, 4.0-652. IPs and port forwarding are irrelevant with these builds, and many people (especially university students) who cannot play netplay with the master builds can with these builds. Memory cards are irrelevant with 652, and in the future will be with 5886's successor.
Oh shiz, that's pretty awesome.
Not going with the stock GameID is fine, but what have people been using in Anther's?
Also, how do things work in this chat room? It seems like you can't just use the play button or search for friendlies because SDR is not one of the recognized games. I guess we just treat it like an irc?

Edit: Most people seem to be using GALESD for now. Also, I was expecting crazy unplayable lag, but it was merely playable lag, much better than I was expecting and was tons of fun!
 
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Quillion

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So, everyone...

What do all of you think about the character skill-to-reward ratio of SD Remix? A few people complain that the skill-to-reward ratio of Project M is way too low on many characters (since not all characters are Star Fox characters), but that's just an inevitability when Mighty Glaciers are more viable.

What does everyone think about the way SD Remix handles it? The top-tier Fragile Speedsters are all unchanged and the Mighty Glaciers are changed as little as possible.
 

♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡

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So, everyone...

What do all of you think about the character skill-to-reward ratio of SD Remix? A few people complain that the skill-to-reward ratio of Project M is way too low on many characters (since not all characters are Star Fox characters), but that's just an inevitability when Mighty Glaciers are more viable.

What does everyone think about the way SD Remix handles it? The top-tier Fragile Speedsters are all unchanged and the Mighty Glaciers are changed as little as possible.
This is a significant topic, so I am glad you brought it up. I personally enjoy the current state of the balance but I am concerned whether others, especially high level players, would feel the same way. Some moves in vMelee have retardedly good hitboxes, like Falcos dair, so I do not mind SDR characters like Pichu having godlike hitbox on his fair, unless it becomes a balance issue.

On an completely unrelated note, I tried out Brawl Minus recently and have had more fun with it than Melee, partly due to moves having amazing properties which enables some ridiculous death combos. This led me to think whether part of the fun with SDR has to do with the fact that all characters are spacies level good. Fox and Falco have ridiculously good movesets, but this is overlooked because they are iconic and fun characters, and they are punished hard. I think every character should have something that is bad about them, while having tons of good stuff.

To be honest, it is very difficult to say whether some characters are overbuffed in SDR because the project needs playtesters desperately. Part of what made PM successful was the fact that they kept the project closed for a long time, slowly working with the game with playtesters while releasing teaser info which kept people interested. SDR however has taken a different approach, and I think its good. All we need now really is high level input from people, who, know their ****, so to speak.

E.

A large part of the issue you mentioned with PM, I feel, has to do with the game engine, that is still Brawl in its core. The dev team of PM have had to Meleefy every Brawl character and modify the engine and even though they have done a fantastic job, it is not perfect. Therefore I do not feel SDR has the same issue because both the engine and characters are pure Melee in the core. This statement may sound ignorant, and perhaps it is, but this is the root of the issue in my opinion.

E2.

Random question:

Would ICs be broken if Nana had better AI? I was thinking whether ICs would need something small against Peach. For example, what if Nana used side b to recover as a default? Even more, what if she would mix up her recovery at times?
 
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Myougi

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Random question:

Would ICs be broken if Nana had better AI? I was thinking whether ICs would need something small against Peach. For example, what if Nana used side b to recover as a default? Even more, what if she would mix up her recovery at times?
Don't touch Nana in SD Remix. She's fine the way she is, honestly. The PMDT tried to make her smarter, but this made her much more unpredictable and hard to keep track of it. I really don't want the same thing to happen in SDR.
 

Stride

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Would ICs be broken if Nana had better AI? I was thinking whether ICs would need something small against Peach. For example, what if Nana used side b to recover as a default? Even more, what if she would mix up her recovery at times?
Don't touch Nana in SD Remix. She's fine the way she is, honestly. The PMDT tried to make her smarter, but this made her much more unpredictable and hard to keep track of it. I really don't want the same thing to happen in SDR.
I strongly agree with keeping her predictable, but I feel like she could still stand to be improved in other ways (not that I could really suggest what they should be). On the other hand, I would also worry that changing her AI even a little is going to throw off players who use Ice Climbers in vanilla more so than the other changes would. What do I know though; I'm not an ICs player.

Are there any experienced Ice Climbers players you could discuss this with? Are there any you've already contacted?
 
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