Score based matches including items(all or a select few)

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

While for now I'm done going to tourneys I figured if ppl are making threads about new rules and such that i might as well do the same. The thing I'm proposing is using brawls default setup for matches: 2 minute (or change to 3 minutes) matches and along with it include the use of ether all items or a select few that ppl find to not be to OP. In doing this we'd be able to provide more variety for every match of every set as well as it making the game a bit less defensive then it is now. I feel there's a lot of things this could fix. And i feel that this could breath new life into the game give brawl players that fast paced hyped up matches that we're now searching for.

I know alot of ppl are going to point out that items add randomness to the game that allows unskilled players a chance to beat skilled players due to a factor of "luck" But Isn't that pretty much just an upset and wouldn't it be an error on the more skilled players part in allowing his opponent to obtain items that could result in him losing.

sets also won't last no longer then 10 minutes at best and using rules such as this makes the game more accessible for new players to join the competitive scene while i know rules are still going to need to be implemented to ensure no broken tactics are used but for the most part it would be rather simple.

Smash bros is a very simple fighting game and i feel that in order to get the best out of it competitively is to keep things simple.

I feel we've been neglecting a bunch of ways to hold tourneys for brawl and smash in general simply because we refused to change the what was believed back when melee's tourney started to be the only viable way to hold tourneys. But i would also like to note that with these rules we might be able to gain acceptance from Nintendo in being willing to allow streams and have them help sponsor gaming events like capcom does for evo. They were willing to allow brawl to be streamed at Evo back in 08 and that tourney had much more embracing rules compared to our now complex ones.

I know ppl will probably start flaming this thread will a lot of negative comments but i figured I'd just try and attempt to get ppl to see about looking into other ways other then stocks matches to hold tourneys and i hope that some people or someone would be willing to help me with this ether by hosting a smash fest trying this out or online tourney or something.

UPDATE: after a short while i finished establishing some rules for this, tried t make it simple to understand for the newer players

Rule set v2.1


3 minutes
items ON Frequency set to Medium
Smash Ball is turned ON
All other items NOT listed below are banned
Team healer is allowed during doubles
Team attack is turned "ON" for doubles
Score Display turned ON

-the following items are to usable:

COMBINING:
Dragoon

RECOVERY:
food

TRANSFORMING:
warp star

BATTERING:
lip's stick

SHOOTING:
cracker launcher
super scope

THROWING:
freezie
smoke ball
Mr Saturn
unira
hothead
motion sensor

PRIZE GIVING
sandbag

GEAR:
Franklin badge

STAGE LIST:
Neutrals

Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Battlefield
castle Siege
Final destination
Smash-ville
lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 1
(SINGLES ONLY) Sky-world
(DOUBLES ONLY) temple

Counter picks

battle ship halberd
delfino plaza
frigate Orpheon
Pokemon stadium 2
jungle japes
hanenbow
Rainbow Cruise
(SINGLES ONLY) Yoshi's island (Melee)
(DOUBLES ONLY) new pork city



GENERAL RULES:
Sets are best of 5 and winner, losers and Grand finals are best of 7.
All forms of stalling or making matches unplayable by glitches or any other means is banned and will result in a forfeit
Any and all wall infinite moves such as jab locking against the wall or CG'ing against the wall must end or prohibited prior to reaching above 100%
game 1's stage will be decided by each player striking(turning off) one stage at a time until one stage is left, games 2 up the loser of the previous match may chose the stage from the neutral and counterpicks.
each game players are allowed 1 item to turn off before the match.(excluding smash ball)
in the event of a sudden death match the winner will decided by a 1 stock 3 minute match with all items turned off.
if players have an issue with controller ports it can be decided by the Game and watch judgement hammer in which the player with the higher number gets to choose there controller port first.
Final smashes may only be used a maximum of 2 times per match. If your final smash count is over 2 it will result in you losing the match.(If both players have exceeded this limit both players will have a 1 stock 3 minute match to all items off to decide the winner.)
The smash ball is only allowed for game one.
Players are only allowed to pick up items up to 20 items per game, if items grabbed count is over 20 that player loses the match. (If both players are found to have gone over the item grab limit then who ever is displayed on the results screen as the winner wins.)

If any issues or disputes arise please report them to your respective TO(tournament organizer).

 

[V]

Honestly this is a joke and people will consider this a huge troll which it might be. Items and all stages? Really? If a lower level players beats a high level player because of an item it doesn't mean the better player made a mistake. What if a heart container showed up and both players dashed for it and the high level player trips? Seriously this is a complete joke and will get nothing but flame/troll posts followed by a swift locking. Sorry.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Having all stages was just a suggestion and some items can easily be banned. I was simply only trying to make a suggestion of something new. As this brawl atm needs something that it's obviously lacking. And if they ran for a heart container and the high level player tripped it wouldn't be like he would not be able to KO and most likely he'd be in the lead to begin with so even if they did grab the container they would still most likely be a kill behind.

 

[V]

But every item is bannable that's the problem. Every stage that's bannable has been banned.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Just look up "Item Standard Play" in this subforum. It's already a thread.

 

[Ghostbone]

If you want serious criticism, a 1 minute match would never decide the winner, as neither player would be able to take a stock in only 1 minute.

 

[Vinylic.]

Out of all other rulesets, This brings most Hilarity in swf.

I'm sticking with unity. All others are not really good in my opinion.

 

[Steam]

Brawl is not all that simple of a game... but with items it is...

and making it time based would only promote campy play because the match is guranteed to go to time. if you're winning what incentive do you have to attack them?

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Well i don't think it would be all that easy to just run away from your opponent especially with items spawning around most likely if you camped you end up getting KO'd. And the same thing could be said for stock matches what incentive do you have to attack if your a stock ahead and can just wait out the timer. If anything having items would cause you not to want to camp unless you felt like giving your opponent the chance to grab an item such as the smash ball and easily just rack a KO or two off you.

 

[Steam]

you could camp and then get rewarded by an item spawning near you... all items do is remove character diversity and depth.

and with 2 min timer the strategy would be: get one kill, run away.

 

[Mike2]

This ruleset is absolutely perfect. And i'm not just saying that because I want to do this in tournament:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZRLJes1Bp4

 

[Steam]

so what happens when a gooey bomb spawns into someone's fsmash and kills them? can we ban items again?

also I like how a maximum tomato can just spawn near someone and give them 50% for free.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

LOL green shells to good and more then half the cast can do that btw although if it becomes something of an issue i could just ban green shell or the technique even though it wouldn't be easy to use as a recovery in anyway although as a means of camping it would. Yea i also bumped it up to 3 minutes, and most likely if they camp because they are winning the items would spawn closer(not exactly in front of btw) to whoever is losing. And if anything it adds more depth and diversity as every match won't have the same items appear at the same time and same place and players will constantly have to adjust to whatever is out on the field. Maximum tomatoes on because of the fact you probably will be taking quite a bit of damage relativity fast and it's not like are common items to appear. Also gooey bombs deal around 12-15% max and there knock back isn't even closer to that of a regular bomb gooey bombs won't be killing anyone until actual kill %'s like in the 100's and that without counting having good DI or character specific weight.

Edit: yea i decided to remove green shell and beam swords
the reasons being green shell you can (while not easily done except with falco) camp in the air with it while beam sword while not being as effective as a throwing item as star rod has a lot of ground power and reach.

 

[Steam]

items kill diversity because they are so strong there's no point to abusing your character traits.

also smart bombs are unblockable. basically everything else has DUMB risk reward involved that heavily favors whoever has the item. items are fun and all but have no place in a competitive moveset...

if you want balanced item based play then just play on mario bros.

 

[Mike2]

LOL green shells to good and more then half the cast can do that btw although if it becomes something of an issue i could just ban green shell or the technique even though it wouldn't be easy to use as a recovery in anyway

It's actually really easy. I love doing it when we play drunken smash with items on.

And there's probably a lot of stupid stuff you can do with other items. Items on is not a good idea at all, man. Sorry.

 

[Ghostbone]

And there's probably a lot of stupid stuff you can do with other items. Items on is not a good idea at all, man. Sorry.

Pretty much this, you'd have to ban basically every item except food and sandbag, and at that point it's pretty pointless.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

>____< the only items that are really powerful are smash ball warp star super scope(fully charged) star rod gooey bomb(although has bad knock back) deku nut hothead(fully charged) motion sensor smart bomb(which you can DI out of) unira and soccer ball and none of those do more than 30% and the only ones that are unblockable are unira, deku nut , gooey bomb warp star and smart bomb. And if anything mario bros stage is far more unbalanced than actual item one hit from a shell is almost a guaranteed KO. And items are only as useful as the person using them. And using items alone won't win you matches against skilled players who know how to deal with dodge or catch items properly you could easily just throw a gooey bomb at me and i could time a Z catch or dash attack and catch the item.

You make it seem like as soon as one item is grabbed it's over for the other player granted smash balls is an exception because there designed to be a characters best attack. If you took the time to actually learn how to use items properly then yes you'd have an advantage over your opponent if they don't know how to use them but same goes from using each character and MU's you can expect to win when you don't know what your doing.

And it's not like if ppl started using this rule set or tried it out and it didn't work that it would be the end competitive smash. when ppl could easily just go back to the way things are now with a slowly if at all changing meta game with 8 minute long matches and MK planking and timing ppl out as well as having MU's that are almost non-winnable for some characters. I'm simply trying to help with ideas about what can be done.

Brawl never bothered to try item tourneys simply because melee had issues with exploding containers and capsules that unlike this game couldn't be turned off.

 

[Steam]

actually mario bros. is better balanced than item rulesets. they have preset spawn points and rates. they won't just appear next to someone randomly.

also LMAO all those unblockable powerful items.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

most of those items are only unblockable if

1. you don't know what how to shield
2. don't know how to catch items
3. don't know how to dodge attacks properly in which case you'd probably lose regardless of if items are on or not


Also if your so against the use of items then why are you posting in a thread like this to begin with as ether way I'm still going to go forward in my attempt just as other ppl are with such things like 1 stock and 2 stock matches or banning MK.

 

[Steam]

items cover many many more defensive options than most normal attacks :/ they're just simply rediculous.

since you're so keen on item tournies, start running item based rulesets and show us some videos of how it promotes all these things without causing more problems than it fixes.

 

[Jack Kieser]

I love watching people who have no idea what they're talking about debate items. It's great entertainment.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i do know at least some things about items as I've been testing stuff out with them for a few months.

 

[Atomic Yoshi]

Or we could just ban MK.

 

[Jack Kieser]

i do know at least some things about items as I've been testing stuff out with them for a few months.

No offense or anything, but...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164675

That thread? Yeah, that was, for the most part (and with a few exceptions noted) all me for about 3-4 months non-stop, nearly every day. That's not even including the original thread (lasted for about a month), or the thread on SRK.

So, yeah. When someone tells me they "know items", pardon me if I take that with a grain of salt. It's nothing personal, I assure you.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i understand why you'd say that(as i didn't help you ISP mainly due to not knowing about until i started my I-Brawl project) but i have been putting in alot of work as well into what i'm doing(although i haven't really posted anything about what i find). i've also had to make most of these decisions by myself save for a few recommendations by ppl. i used some of your reasoning and had looked over your ISP many times. i'm just trying to find a balance with these settings. If i'm correct no ones tried score matches(in a competitive manner) before especially with items. I feel that using score helps lower how OP some items are in the sense that the match doesn't end after you lose all your lives. and i've added a rule limiting the times you can use your final smash to avoid ppl being able to abuse it though i might lower the number to 2 uses. i'd appreciate it if ppl tried to help but i doubt anyone will. matches also won't last forever and i tried to add atleast one item that depending on the situation could ether allow a player to make a comeback or gain a even greater lead.(this item being the smash ball of course). But this ruleset is anything but perfect and hopefully i can eventually find some sort of balance who knows but i rather do this then sit around and wait for other ppl to keeping talking about change.

 

[FoxFireMage]

*looks at date* It isn't April 1st?

But seriously items bring in a luck factor. Given that actual serious play is meant to prove skill between players, luck should not be a factor

 

[Shockna]

I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned the Smash Ball.

Under this ruleset, the tier list is:


SSS+ tier:

Falco, Fox, Wolf

G tier:

Everybody else

Seriously though, how the hell do you defend a ruleset that allows up to 3 landmasters per battle?

 

[FoxFireMage]

I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned the Smash Ball.

Under this ruleset, the tier list is:


SSS+ tier:

Falco, Fox, Wolf

G tier:

Everybody else

Seriously though, how the hell do you defend a ruleset that allows up to 3 landmasters per battle?

You forgot Sonic for SSS*999, cuz he can reach the items the fastest

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

You make it seem like they'll grab the smash ball every time and with the matches so short at best your seeing the smash ball at the very least show up twice. With this if for example your opponent obtained the smash ball the first time you now have the chance to grab it yourself. And if a player is smart and knows how to avoid final smashes you can survives the star foxes final smash or at least only get KO'd once. Sonic while is the only one where the best you can do is only get KO'd unless of course they have no ides what their doing and and in which case you can probably survive the attack. And if them using there final smashes is such a problem then just ensure you know how to get if before them.

I could easily grab the smash ball as ganon vs a sonic simple because while he may be able to get to it first it'll take more then one hit to especially from him to break it open. So I'd just wait till he hit it and then break it open because most likely after you hit the smash ball it flies off in another direction.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Now I understand why he wants items, and thus Smash Balls on.

He's a Sonic main.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

>_______< I'm not trying to make rules that seem biased. Just because I'm a sonic main doesn't mean anything. I'm only trying to help thing and try out something new. This is yet another reason why i stopped playing this game competitively because anytime someone brings up an idea or suggests something "different" they get instantly flamed for it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I approve of rulesets like these in free side-events but it shouldn't be hard to see why this will never be the main competition in a tourney. Still, I'd say fun events like these need to be held more often and be encouraged for the hosts to be used - variety also matters for hosting tourneys, not just in-game.

 

[Flutter NiTE]

and with 2 min timer the strategy would be: get one kill, run away.

That's all it is now.

Spoiler

(looking at you m2k)

In all seriousness, I would love to see rulesets like these for side events.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Well actually the timers 3 minutes and i doubt they would be able to run away for long especially with items popping up, including the smash ball. And the reason I'm opting for 3 minute matches over stocks is simply because having stocks requires having to place so many more limits on item usage(and there's quite a bit in place already) as well as the fact that your going to be dying a lot faster than usual. Also matches won't drag on for 8 minutes. I wish this type of rule set could be tested to become the standard but I'm fine if it only ended up being a side event.

 

[Ghostbone]

k, going to respond to the whole OP since you don't seem to understand what people are saying.

I know alot of ppl are going to point out that items add randomness to the game that allows unskilled players a chance to beat skilled players due to a factor of "luck" But Isn't that pretty much just an upset and wouldn't it be an error on the more skilled players part in allowing his opponent to obtain items that could result in him losing.

Being randomly cheated out of a win isn't the fault of the player lol. That's very different from an upset, where one player was unexpectedly playing better than the other, not just being more lucky.

sets also won't last no longer then 10 minutes at best and using rules such as this makes the game more accessible for new players to join the competitive scene while i know rules are still going to need to be implemented to ensure no broken tactics are used but for the most part it would be rather simple.Smash bros is a very simple fighting game and i feel that in order to get the best out of it competitively is to keep things simple.

Not really, you're trying to introduce a bunch of limits like FS limits and item grab limits, how is that more simple than just turning them off?

I feel we've been neglecting a bunch of ways to hold tourneys for brawl and smash in general simply because we refused to change the what was believed back when melee's tourney started to be the only viable way to hold tourneys. But i would also like to note that with these rules we might be able to gain acceptance from Nintendo in being willing to allow streams and have them help sponsor gaming events like capcom does for evo. They were willing to allow brawl to be streamed at Evo back in 08 and that tourney had much more embracing rules compared to our now complex ones.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understaning is Nintendo simply didn't respond to MLG's request for streaming, so there was no stream to prevent any legal issues that may have arisen.
Nintendo really just doesn't care, and you're never going to get them to specifically say you can stream a smash tournament no matter the rule set.

I know ppl will probably start flaming this thread will a lot of negative comments but i figured I'd just try and attempt to get ppl to see about looking into other ways other then stocks matches to hold tourneys and i hope that some people or someone would be willing to help me with this ether by hosting a smash fest trying this out or online tourney or something.

I can't speak for other scenes, but I'm pretty sure every competitive player ever started out as a casual player with items on, and gradually learnt that they were ill fit for competitive play. (whether they started playing competitively at first in 64, melee or brawl doesn't really matter)
So it's not like we have no experience with items, indeed at smash meets occasionally we do FFAs with all items on high, just to relax.

UPDATE: after a short while i finished establishing some rules for this, tried t make it simple to understand for the newer players

Rule set v2.0


3 minutes
items ON Frequency set to Medium
Smash Ball is turned ON
All other items NOT listed below are banned
Team healer is allowed during doubles
Team attack is turned "ON" for doubles
Score Display turned ON

Timer is bad but whatever.

-the following items are to usable:

RECOVERY:
food

fine

TRANSFORMING:
warp star
bunny hood
metal box

Metal box can randomly appear while attacking, forcing you to be metal, greatly disadvantaging you because you get infinited by basically everyone with throws.
Bunny hood gives a lot of characters broken speed, and gives the reward out randomly.
Warp star is easy to avoid so meh, but it's still randomly given out, and forces characters into the air where they may be at a disadvantage.

BATTERING:
lip's stick
star rod
beam sword

Ganon can infinite with these, and also, the star rod gives the player who picked it up (who got it randomly btw) an unfair pressuring tool, beam sword gives heaps of range unfairly, lip's stick idk, does a lot of damage I guess.
They all give the player a very strong item to throw at you, randomly.

SHOOTING:
cracker launcher
super scope

Both broken against recovering characters or in general, too strong for a player to be randomly rewarded with.

THROWING:
gooey bomb
freezie
smoke ball
Mr Saturn
fire flower
unira
hothead
banana peel
motion sensor

Gooey bomb and motion sensor can fall on your attacks after you started them up, instant ban right there.
Freezie is a very powerful projectile, same with mr saturn (as you can't shield it, it opens you up to any attack, way too strong of a random reward).
Smoke ball is meh.
Fire flower is an incredibly broken pressuring tool, it's impossible to attack through, way too strong for a random reward.
Unira is too strong, too good for ledge pressure, random, etc.
Hothead is way too strong as well for a random reward.
Same with bananas, plus every character can infinite with them.

PRIZE GIVING
sandbag

meh

GEAR:
Franklin badge
screw attack

Franklin badge randomly screws over projectile characters.
Screw attack is broken for combos.

STAGE LIST:
Neutrals

Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Battlefield
castle Siege
Final destination
Smash-ville
lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 1
(SINGLES ONLY) Sky-world
(DOUBLES ONLY) temple

Skyworld is a terrible stage.....Temple is a terrible stage, both have caves of life, meaning you really shouldn't ever die. (especially with only 3 minutes lol)
Temple has 3 circles, meaning you can run away for a while as well.

Counter picks

battle ship halberd
delfino plaza
frigate Orpheon
Pokemon stadium 2
jungle japes
hanenbow
Rainbow Cruise
(SINGLES ONLY) Yoshi's island (Melee)
(DOUBLES ONLY) new pork city

New pork city: See temple above.

GENERAL RULES:

All forms of stalling or making matches unplayable by glitches or any other means is banned and will result in a forfeit
Any and all wall infinite moves such as jab locking against the wall or CG'ing against the wall must end or prohibited prior to reaching above 100%
game 1's stage will be decided by each player striking(turning off) one stage at a time until one stage is left, games 2 and 3's stage will be decided on by the loser of the previous match.
each game players are allowed 1 item to turn off before the match.(excluding smash ball)
in the event of a sudden death match the winner will decided by a 1 stock 3 minute match with all items turned off.
if players have an issue with controller ports it can be decided by the Game and watch judgement hammer in which the player with the higher number gets to choose there controller port first.
Final smashes may only be used a maximum of 2 times per match. If your final smash count is over 2 it will result in you losing the match.(If both players have exceeded this limit both players will have a 1 stock 3 minute match to all items off to decide the winner.)
The smash ball is only allowed for game one.
Players are only allowed to pick up items up to 20 items per game, if items grabbed count is over 20 that player loses the match. (If both players are found to have gone over the item grab limit then who ever is displayed on the results screen as the winner wins.)

If any issues or disputes arise please report them to your respective TO(tournament organizer).

What is this about an item limit? So you're saying link's bombs are too good as well?

This is just punishing characters like Peach, trying to cover up that items are just really bad in general.
If you want a item list that isn't extremely bad for competitive play, it's basically food, sandbag, smoke ball and warp star.

Smash ball is sooooo bad, it moves around randomly, and randomly rewards a player with a stock off the opponent.
And don't say "it takes skill to use"
It takes very little skill to use, and the broken ones (fox, falco, wolf, sonic, wario, etc.) are impossible to dodge if used properly, which isn't hard at all.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

The reason i have temple and new pork city is to allow players to be able to avoid those OP type final smashes and those stages are only for doubles.

And the motion sensor will only explode if it's hit by a fire attack or if placed and touched like snakes C4's. And the goeey bombwon't be killing anyone until there at 90% and even then you can easily dodge the blast and if you so happen to blow it up when it spawns on you like i said it has low knockback. Warpstar is so easy to dodge and punish so i don't really see a problem there, and when they grab the warpstar it takes a second or two for them to land and if it puts you at a disadvantage why would you pick it up to begin with and i've never encountered a time where a warpstar randomly spawned and i grabbed it and been at a disadvantage especially when the star spikes anyone who tries to attack me while it's landing.

And it's not like you can't shield or Z-catch any of these items if thrown at you. And ganon can only infinite with the beam sword and it can only go up to a certain percentage so it pretty much is operates like a basic CG. And the links bombs and peachs turnips don't count as items grabbed on the results screen i've checked. Having bananas out would be the same thing if diddy had them and theres nothing really wrong with skyworld other then the fall through platforms the stage stops planking and also saves you from getting gimped occasionally And your more likely to die on skyworld than Temple and new pork though those stages are only more doubles because of how big they are.
And the metal box while makes you heavy also ensures you can take a few more hits than usual and you can only get CG by those who would normally CG you, and the bunny hood makes you faster jump higher but your up-b suffers greatly in the height it gives you.

And how does using the smash ball not take any skill? if you were mario and had your final smash ready you can't just tap B and expect it to kill instantly same with kirby's links and almost a 3rd of the cast have Final smashes that require you to know what your doing. And the reason i'm allowing only 2 final smashes is for 3 reasons: During a 3 min match the smash ball will at best show up 4 times most often than not only twice, To nerf final smashes like fox falco sonics etc, and to allow players to not gain a major lead in point.

The fire flower while you can't attack through it is pretty basic. they lose the ability to attack in the air and can only fire continually in one direction at a time.
Freezie has terrible knock back and won't be Ko'ing anyone except jigglypuff and G&W at high %, all it's really good for it to use as a setup to get in some free hits while they are frozen.
Unira is also easily avoidable and to get rid of it all you have to do is hit it with a stronger attack then what hit it before you and the items also stationary so if you see it out and armed i don't think you'd try to go near it.
And the hothead last for a set amount of time only powered up by fire and electric attacks and is rather easy to just spot dodge or jump over.
Cracker launcher comes with major flaws like not being able to use any of your specials including up-b or other attacks or shield or roll dodge and you also have to aim correctly and know the trajectory of the shots. The super scope which only deals good knockback when charged and most likely your opponents going to ether throw it, rapid fire or charge all three shots(which is as avoidable as a samus charged shot or aura sphere).

And the franklin badge allows you to not get camped out by lasers and forces characters like falco and fox and wolf to approach and the item also only lasts for about 60 seconds or more.
Screw attack you can DI out of though and at higher percents it doesn't pick up as easily for combos.
There's also nothing wrong with the lip stick it has terrible knock back and all it does is place a flower on your head that deals additional percentage based on how many times consecutively you've hit them and it has barely any kill potential.
Mr Saturn only is a shield pressure item deal barely any % has no knock back at all most of the time it's not even worth picking up.

And just because these are given out randomly doesn't mean it's bad as everyone can use it i could see if some of these items were restricted but using the "It's random" excuse just doesn't prove anything as peach, G&W and D3 have random factors for moves regardless if it's apart of their character design, so are every characters Final smash and then there's also tripping. And if your so against item you don't have to use this Rule set or test it out.

While some of your points i can understand Others just wouldn't be practical in real matches between ppl who Know how to use them smart and effectively to control the stage. But whatever i just figured I'd explain why i have the things i have there.

 

[JoFTWin]

Geez..when will people realize the dilemma with items lol..and some of these ruleset ideas are almost as restrictive as Smogon's Pokemon community, if you've heard of them. The only ideas that are really legit is two stock and MK ban. All these other overly thought out protocols are getting ridiculous though.

 

[Ghostbone]

The reason i have temple and new pork city is to allow players to be able to avoid those OP type final smashes and those stages are only for doubles.

Why do you have over powered final smashes turned on anyway? They're completely broken.

And the motion sensor will only explode if it's hit by a fire attack or if placed and touched like snakes C4's. And the goeey bombwon't be killing anyone until there at 90% and even then you can easily dodge the blast and if you so happen to blow it up when it spawns on you like i said it has low knockback.

-Kills at 90%
-claims it has low knockback
Troll harder.

Warpstar is so easy to dodge and punish so i don't really see a problem there, and when they grab the warpstar it takes a second or two for them to land and if it puts you at a disadvantage why would you pick it up to begin with and i've never encountered a time where a warpstar randomly spawned and i grabbed it and been at a disadvantage especially when the star spikes anyone who tries to attack me while it's landing.

Meh I said at the end I wouldn't mind if it was on.

And it's not like you can't shield or Z-catch any of these items if thrown at you.

You shield it, you take shield damage, I pressure your shield more and you're not able to shield otherwise it gets broken.

And ganon can only infinite with the beam sword and it can only go up to a certain percentage so it pretty much is operates like a basic CG.

Except it's completely random, it'd be like if D3 had a 50% chance to be able to infinite the entire cast when he grabs you.

And the links bombs and peachs turnips don't count as items grabbed on the results screen i've checked.

What if the other person grabs them when you throw them at them?

Having bananas out would be the same thing if diddy had them and theres nothing really wrong with skyworld other then the fall through platforms the stage stops planking and also saves you from getting gimped occasionally And your more likely to die on skyworld than Temple and new pork though those stages are only more doubles because of how big they are.

lol at Skyworld saving you from being gimped.
Have you ever played on that stage ever.

And the metal box while makes you heavy also ensures you can take a few more hits than usual and you can only get CG by those who would normally CG you, and the bunny hood makes you faster jump higher but your up-b suffers greatly in the height it gives you.

No you get chaingrabbed by everyone even if they couldn't before.
Your up-b doesn't decrease in height with the bunny hood lol. It's a randomly given advantage to a player.
It's like if both players go random, one gets Ganon, one gets Sheik.
Sure the Sheik still has to "outplay" the Ganon to win, but it's a massive advantage given out randomly.

And how does using the smash ball not take any skill? if you were mario and had your final smash ready you can't just tap B and expect it to kill instantly same with kirby's links and almost a 3rd of the cast have Final smashes that require you to know what your doing. And the reason i'm allowing only 2 final smashes is for 3 reasons: During a 3 min match the smash ball will at best show up 4 times most often than not only twice, To nerf final smashes like fox falco sonics etc, and to allow players to not gain a major lead in point.

It shows up way more often than you're saying it does.
You really don't understand that they're broken do you?

The fire flower while you can't attack through it is pretty basic. they lose the ability to attack in the air and can only fire continually in one direction at a time.
Freezie has terrible knock back and won't be Ko'ing anyone except jigglypuff and G&W at high %, all it's really good for it to use as a setup to get in some free hits while they are frozen.

The fire flower is still broken, and they can do aerials while holding it. (but why would they when they can just use the broken fire flower)
Freezie doesn't need to KO to be really good.

Unira is also easily avoidable and to get rid of it all you have to do is hit it with a stronger attack then what hit it before you and the items also stationary so if you see it out and armed i don't think you'd try to go near it.

/you didn't get the point did you.

And the hothead last for a set amount of time only powered up by fire and electric attacks and is rather easy to just spot dodge or jump over.

Again you didn't get the point that it's a massive advantage given out randomly, and can randomly screw over a recovering player.
Cracker launcher comes with major flaws like not being able to use any of your specials including up-b or other attacks or shield or roll dodge and you also have to aim correctly and know the trajectory of the shots.
[/QUOTE]
-throws it away
-uses moves
Yea you can still use moves, and it's not hard to aim LOL.

The super scope which only deals good knockback when charged and most likely your opponents going to ether throw it, rapid fire or charge all three shots(which is as avoidable as a samus charged shot or aura sphere).

See above, screws over recovering players.

And the franklin badge allows you to not get camped out by lasers and forces characters like falco and fox and wolf to approach and the item also only lasts for about 60 seconds or more.

In other words it lasts for a good chunk of the match.

Screw attack you can DI out of though and at higher percents it doesn't pick up as easily for combos.

Yes it does lol, you can't DI out of things like screw attack > uair with Ganon, he can interrupt it at any time and combo you out of it.

There's also nothing wrong with the lip stick it has terrible knock back and all it does is place a flower on your head that deals additional percentage based on how many times consecutively you've hit them and it has barely any kill potential.

Ganon can infinite with it.

Mr Saturn only is a shield pressure item deal barely any % has no knock back at all most of the time it's not even worth picking up.

You obviously don't understand the game.
It's shield pressure is broken lol.

And just because these are given out randomly doesn't mean it's bad as everyone can use it i could see if some of these items were restricted but using the "It's random" excuse just doesn't prove anything as peach, G&W and D3 have random factors for moves regardless if it's apart of their character design, so are every characters Final smash and then there's also tripping. And if your so against item you don't have to use this Rule set or test it out.

See Sheik vs Ganon example above, randomness is really bad.
The randomness of characters is not comparable.

While some of your points i can understand Others just wouldn't be practical in real matches between ppl who Know how to use them smart and effectively to control the stage. But whatever i just figured I'd explain why i have the things i have there.

You're the one who can't seem to realise that the reason that they're bad is because of how effective they are at what they do.
They're far better at their jobs (killing, controlling the stage, etc.) than any move that any character has, and they're given out randomly.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Yes i've played at Skyworld before and it has helped me from getting edgehogged. And you say the smashball will show up more than i say yet it doesn't, i've played with people online using these rules before and the best your seeing the ball show up is 4 times and that a very slim chance due to how short matches are. On average the smash ball only poped up twice or once due to ppl holding it to use it. And items like super scope and cracker launcher punishing ppl's recoveries is the same thing as peach pulling a random bomb and throwing it at them offstage or link using his weapons or the star foxes lasers.

And yes i have checked other players catching link and peachs items they don't count towards the items grabbed during a match unless peach pulls mr saturn or beam sword or a bomb. And just because Mr saturn has excellent shield pressure doesn't mean your going to be landing it on me just as easy as it is to dodge attacks i can dodge a thrown item or better yet catch it. And ganon can only infinite with the beam sword because of it's reach not the lip stick. And if such an issue you can strike that item off before the start of whatever match. As before each match each player can strike 1 item.
And i made it best of 5. And the smash ball is only turned on for game one so it's not that big of a deal, you say all the final smash attacks are broken yet they are apart of each characters design and are made as there strongest attack.

Just because items are good at what their made to do doesn't mean they don't have major flaws. Like i had said about the cracker launcher. And just because it's easy to aim doesn't mean it's easy to aim and avoid incoming attacks while your opponents on the stage. And if they tried shooting you offstage most likely you would try to dodge incoming moves on your way back. And superscope saves you if anything while trying to recover if it's not the charged blasts because it resets your up-b. Like i said earlier it's not very hard to dodge any of these items attacks. And the gooey bomb does have low knockback up until your at around 90% was what i meant to say so unlike the bomb-omb you won't have to worry about dieing at 45% due to a bomb showing up.

Again a lot of things are subject to change as I'm still testing stuff out(though i wish i had something to record vids with -___-).

 

[FoxFireMage]

Let me make a simple point. This is a competitive fighting game. All aspects of luck do not belong in serious competitive play, and unless they can't be removed (things like tripping, [DAMN YOU SAKURAI!!!] or G&W's side B, or Peach's down B, etc) they need to be phased out in order to have said competitive
play be about actual skill. Sorry but this proposed ruleset is only good for jokey side events