choknater
Smash Obsessed
i'm going to a tourny on march 1st and will train hard and go all ness. hopefully i can get some recorded matches yall
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Say "Fuzzy Pickles." Ness Video/Critique Thread
- Thread starter GMaster171
- Start date
The_NZA
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,979
Good luck!!! We believe in you.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
thanks man 
hope to be a contributor to the ness metagame
i'm kinda new to P:M (i just got it) but i'm very experienced in brawl and melee so i've just been using carried-over skill. i really want to master this game though, and ness is my favorite
hope to be a contributor to the ness metagamei'm kinda new to P:M (i just got it) but i'm very experienced in brawl and melee so i've just been using carried-over skill. i really want to master this game though, and ness is my favorite
The_NZA
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,979
GMaster171
Smash Ace
MASSIVE UPDATE
added all the videos since last update, and added a bunch of my own I hadn't yet.
I still want my sticky
added all the videos since last update, and added a bunch of my own I hadn't yet.
I still want my sticky
Bryonato
Green Hat
Is there any chance I can just link my stream archives here? I have so much footage it's ridic.
GMaster171
Smash Ace
Yea you can
10char
10char
Bryonato
Green Hat
most recent archives:
Pre apex - http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/499326433
Post apex http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/500655953
http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/494589517
Pre apex - http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/499326433
Post apex http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/500655953
http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/494589517
Bryonato
Green Hat
Gm if you could link my stream under my spoiler in the main post that would be great. As well as my archives that I post here? Hope it's not too much to ask
sorry double post
sorry double post
choknater
Smash Obsessed
nice vids bryonato, i just watched a lot of the ness v marth matches on that last link
it looks like you're experimenting in friendlies, which is good, but i think a more deliberate strategy against marth would let u dominate your friend way more. the best way to learn a matchup is to establish a game plan in the neutral situation where you press every advantage possible. generally for most characters, the matchup against marth consists of dash dancing, spacing aerials, and run->shield. all these 3 things allow a character to whiff punish
ness dash dance grab is amazing and i saw a few times u got it, and i was like, he could be just doing this the whole time lol. i also noticed you are usually jumping forward while fairing, when u could also fair in place, or fair while hopping backwards. it's a great move and can be used not just as an approach but also a deterrence.
i'm gonna watch more vids on the front page to watch and learn some more haha this is fun. from what i've seen, y'all ness players have amazing movement and offense and so many cool ideas, but the defense.... hahahah can't wait for march 1 to show you guys what i got, and hopefully get some critique too!
edit: LOLLL i'm watching calabrel, he plays so funny. kinda cool-looking
it looks like you're experimenting in friendlies, which is good, but i think a more deliberate strategy against marth would let u dominate your friend way more. the best way to learn a matchup is to establish a game plan in the neutral situation where you press every advantage possible. generally for most characters, the matchup against marth consists of dash dancing, spacing aerials, and run->shield. all these 3 things allow a character to whiff punish
ness dash dance grab is amazing and i saw a few times u got it, and i was like, he could be just doing this the whole time lol. i also noticed you are usually jumping forward while fairing, when u could also fair in place, or fair while hopping backwards. it's a great move and can be used not just as an approach but also a deterrence.
i'm gonna watch more vids on the front page to watch and learn some more haha this is fun. from what i've seen, y'all ness players have amazing movement and offense and so many cool ideas, but the defense.... hahahah can't wait for march 1 to show you guys what i got, and hopefully get some critique too!
edit: LOLLL i'm watching calabrel, he plays so funny. kinda cool-looking
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thesage
Smash Hero
Some old school videos of melee Ness that I think can help (Mofo and UmbreonMow vids).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOip76euLzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPsV-1tZ8BA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISZnwAIexfM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqze0rnfQs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOip76euLzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPsV-1tZ8BA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISZnwAIexfM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqze0rnfQs
You realize this is the Project M Ness boards, right?...
thesage
Smash Hero
A lot of Ness' melee combos still work in project m. They are pretty useful and you should learn them.
Bryonato
Green Hat
thanks man appreciate the kind words. I do experiment A LOT in friendlies since I practice a lot of stuff in my free time by myself and jump at the opportunity to use it in a real setting. I much more highly recommend watching some of the footage from this archive http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/499326433 since imo it's a much better representation of where I am now and tbh I'm pretty proud of some of the stuff i do in it. Skip to an 1:20:00ish when ness v ganon starts.
I play Ness in Project M AND Melee at the moment. Who said I wasn't. This is a video critique thread. :I
choknater
Smash Obsessed
sweet man, i'll take a look in a bit
I got a new video for y'all vs Samus/Link. I don't like these matchups but I want to get better in them. Please tell me what to fix and work on and also what you thought I did well on. I don't like the thought of going almost even with my friend. Thank you Ness peeps.
Kayo vs Hagi
Kayo vs Hagi
Bryonato
Green Hat
NZA touched on some things on Skype but I'll leave my own opinions:
-You can certainly afford to be more aggressive. I'm not sure if it's matchup unfamiliarity or something but I noticed when you actually on a hit in you would almost kind of... run away. There's a few examples on the game on WW where you get a fair in and then wd back/away from the opponent without any followups.
-I reaaaaallly love your platform movement, especially in the WW game.
-Vs Samus I'm glad you're batting the missles back but I'd like to see you try to absorb the charge shots.
-Try not to nair missles when Samus has a shot charged. There was one instance on FD where (idk if he intentionally baited you) where you naired a missle and he shot you before you reached the iasa frames.
-OHH MANN that wd back -> bat read was so sick! unfortunate the timing was just a little off. LOVE the attempt though.
-For once I really like the pkt edgeguard in the Samus MU, but I'd also like to see you try and fair edgeguard her when she's way out there bomb jumping. I've found it to be pretty effective.
-Not sure if you were just having an off day but you just kind of seem slower than I'm used to seeing you. I don't mean any offense by that. There have been a few times where it at least looked like you could've continued a combo string had you been more on point with your movement/tech. (ex: 12:12)
-you used djc PKF a lot and imo it became predicable. Hagi took advantage of it a few times I think. I find it useful to fix up the spacing and timing with different djc timings and wavebouncing.
-NICE FOBBLE BRO 15:41
-Dig the dthrow -> fair -> uair at 16:01
That's all I have time for atm. Will watch the Link matches later if I can
-You can certainly afford to be more aggressive. I'm not sure if it's matchup unfamiliarity or something but I noticed when you actually on a hit in you would almost kind of... run away. There's a few examples on the game on WW where you get a fair in and then wd back/away from the opponent without any followups.
-I reaaaaallly love your platform movement, especially in the WW game.
-Vs Samus I'm glad you're batting the missles back but I'd like to see you try to absorb the charge shots.
-Try not to nair missles when Samus has a shot charged. There was one instance on FD where (idk if he intentionally baited you) where you naired a missle and he shot you before you reached the iasa frames.
-OHH MANN that wd back -> bat read was so sick! unfortunate the timing was just a little off. LOVE the attempt though.
-For once I really like the pkt edgeguard in the Samus MU, but I'd also like to see you try and fair edgeguard her when she's way out there bomb jumping. I've found it to be pretty effective.
-Not sure if you were just having an off day but you just kind of seem slower than I'm used to seeing you. I don't mean any offense by that. There have been a few times where it at least looked like you could've continued a combo string had you been more on point with your movement/tech. (ex: 12:12)
-you used djc PKF a lot and imo it became predicable. Hagi took advantage of it a few times I think. I find it useful to fix up the spacing and timing with different djc timings and wavebouncing.
-NICE FOBBLE BRO 15:41
-Dig the dthrow -> fair -> uair at 16:01
That's all I have time for atm. Will watch the Link matches later if I can
Bryonato
Green Hat
New stream archives for my section of the OP:
http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/501401279
http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/504073784
http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/501401279
http://www.twitch.tv/bryonato/b/504073784
Apollo Ali
Smash Journeyman
Key to winning Link Match-up: FOBBLE ALL DAY.
As a Link player, Ness's dair is my worst nightmare. Since you've got a neutral disadvantage, you need to capitalize on every edgeguarding/low percent KO opportunity you get. Nair in some situations is also sweet. SORRY DIDNT WATCH YR VIDEOS FULLY (just 2 min) KAYO JUST PLAY ME MORE AND WE CAN TALK
As a Link player, Ness's dair is my worst nightmare. Since you've got a neutral disadvantage, you need to capitalize on every edgeguarding/low percent KO opportunity you get. Nair in some situations is also sweet. SORRY DIDNT WATCH YR VIDEOS FULLY (just 2 min) KAYO JUST PLAY ME MORE AND WE CAN TALK
Thanks Bryon, bro, for the write up. I'm being more aggressive and working out. I'm scared to actually absorb full charge shot because that would just leave me sitting there. I'd absorb it if I was off stage far away though. Just not close to mid range. :I Might be Melee PTSD. Idkl. I shutter to think if it will work on better people though. :T
also fobbling = lame
I don't quite know the situations to d air link. I usually get hit by up b. And I'll totally take up you're offer on playing you Apollo! :D
also fobbling = lame
Bryonato
Green Hat
My 2-day old Ness in a pride-match vs Lucas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w20xquX1HA&feature=c4-overview&list=UU2zNfn5kCecDDZrbMGLqrjg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w20xquX1HA&feature=c4-overview&list=UU2zNfn5kCecDDZrbMGLqrjg
Bryonato
Green Hat
Thanks for the video. That was fun to watch!
I can definitely tell you're new to the character, but it's good to see you messing around with magnet options and you seem to have a good grasp on his combo paths and what generally works/doesnt.
Few things:
while the option is something i havent seen before idk how much I like the dthrow -> usmash since it doesnt look like it follows up into anything.
loooooved the attempted runoff reverse bair about 7:30 or so in. Wish that would have worked.
love how aggro you are offstage. not a lot of ness' do that.
WOOOW that uthrow combo. siiiiiiiiiiiick
also like that you're using dair oos. very strong grasp on what our best options are
Anyways dude, idk if you're picking up Ness or what but damn you have some serious potential to be one of the best imo if you put the time in. Your smash experience really shows.
I can definitely tell you're new to the character, but it's good to see you messing around with magnet options and you seem to have a good grasp on his combo paths and what generally works/doesnt.
Few things:
while the option is something i havent seen before idk how much I like the dthrow -> usmash since it doesnt look like it follows up into anything.
loooooved the attempted runoff reverse bair about 7:30 or so in. Wish that would have worked.
love how aggro you are offstage. not a lot of ness' do that.
WOOOW that uthrow combo. siiiiiiiiiiiick
also like that you're using dair oos. very strong grasp on what our best options are
Anyways dude, idk if you're picking up Ness or what but damn you have some serious potential to be one of the best imo if you put the time in. Your smash experience really shows.
Thanks man. I'm picking up a new character every week and a half or so, and Ness is currently FOTM. Might use him at the next tournament depending on how much I end up practicing / what the competition looks like. Sometimes I felt like Usmash was my only option if they DI'd far enough away and I wanted a mix-up from regrab, and I don't think SideB is super reliable in that situation. You got any suggestions (for when they DI away strong)? DJC aerials might work as well.
A couple things I intend to experiment with: using more Dair and Uair. Both have crazy hitstun, so a lot of combo potential. Utilt does as well, but it's hard to land reliably.
Ness should be aggro offstage when he's edgeguarding because he can, now that he has the option to use rising aerials.
A couple things I intend to experiment with: using more Dair and Uair. Both have crazy hitstun, so a lot of combo potential. Utilt does as well, but it's hard to land reliably.
Ness should be aggro offstage when he's edgeguarding because he can, now that he has the option to use rising aerials.
Bryonato
Green Hat
Ness is FOTM? Whuuuut
dthrow can CG lucas (and other "kinda ff'ers" like Roy, Diddy, etc). Dthrow -> fair will chain into itself on people like GnW, Ganon, Sonic, MK, etc. With floatier characters like Marth/Mario nair is the best option since they can sdi out of fair, and weakhit will combo into another dthrow or dtilt.
dthrow can CG lucas (and other "kinda ff'ers" like Roy, Diddy, etc). Dthrow -> fair will chain into itself on people like GnW, Ganon, Sonic, MK, etc. With floatier characters like Marth/Mario nair is the best option since they can sdi out of fair, and weakhit will combo into another dthrow or dtilt.
I play the exact same way, completely agree, though you'll see players like Kayo/Jose opt for pkt/yoyo edgeguards. Different strokes.
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I'm gonna strongly disagree with you on Ness doing well off-stage in terms of edgeguarding. He can do SOME stuff, but relative to the whole cast, he doesn't do well. I've been messing around with Yoshi and Ness both, and their rising aerials after jumping off the stage open up a new world of edgeguarding, which is what makes Ness strong right now. There isn't a whole lot to counter it in the current metagame.
Dsmash is actually something else I'm trying to mess around with. Like the new gimmicks, it's something I have to consciously put into my game since it's a never-used move in Melee. I've been using PK Flash for edgeguarding as well. Junebug and I practice a lot. As Diddy Kong, his recovery is hard to counter with a physical move, but PK Flash works just fine because of it's area-of-effect, as long as you predict where Diddy will land.
And thanks for the advice on Dthrow follow-ups. I did do a few regrabs on Milkman's Lucas from Dthrow (e.g. Dthrow -> Dthrow -> Usmash, Dthrow -> that Uthrow combo) but I can probably get more mileage out of it more often.
Dsmash is actually something else I'm trying to mess around with. Like the new gimmicks, it's something I have to consciously put into my game since it's a never-used move in Melee. I've been using PK Flash for edgeguarding as well. Junebug and I practice a lot. As Diddy Kong, his recovery is hard to counter with a physical move, but PK Flash works just fine because of it's area-of-effect, as long as you predict where Diddy will land.
And thanks for the advice on Dthrow follow-ups. I did do a few regrabs on Milkman's Lucas from Dthrow (e.g. Dthrow -> Dthrow -> Usmash, Dthrow -> that Uthrow combo) but I can probably get more mileage out of it more often.
Bryonato
Green Hat
DSmash has it's uses. It can kill near the edge of the stage around 120 iirc (easy to catch people with bad di when they're coming at you from behind). On stages like BF, PS2, it covers the entire platform and works for a waveland -> tech chase or the djc smash platform cancel thing.... should really name that.
It's great if an opponent tries to roll/buffer a roll behind you. Mostly I just use it to catch people behind me I guess.
Dthrow is so godlike. Very important to Ness' metagame
It's great if an opponent tries to roll/buffer a roll behind you. Mostly I just use it to catch people behind me I guess.
Dthrow is so godlike. Very important to Ness' metagame
choknater
Smash Obsessed
hey guys! i got first place! so i had some technical flubs and bad decisions here and there, but i hope you like the videos! my friend will be uploading them soon to the CentralValleySmash youtube channel... i'll link them here as soon as they go up
Bryonato
Green Hat
YESSS. Psyched for this. Good **** man!
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Alright, guys, here's the video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rz02_6QOag
So rather than splitting into individual matches, my friend decided to put them up in one big archive and just add timestamps. I use the "RONI" tag when playing, so just find those and you'll see my ness.
matchups played: Toon Link, Zelda, Ganon, Ike
Unfortunately, there was a mic doubling problem so the commentary is very hard to understand... bummer!! This will be resolved next time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rz02_6QOag
So rather than splitting into individual matches, my friend decided to put them up in one big archive and just add timestamps. I use the "RONI" tag when playing, so just find those and you'll see my ness.
matchups played: Toon Link, Zelda, Ganon, Ike
Unfortunately, there was a mic doubling problem so the commentary is very hard to understand... bummer!! This will be resolved next time.
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Bryonato
Green Hat
choknater
Smash Obsessed
LOL almost nice
Bryonato
Green Hat
yeah i shoulda just dair'd instead of going for the fair -> ff dair offstage. oh well
reslived
Smash Apprentice
just found this thread. why are there no vids of awestin?! possibly the best ness NA...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7ga9t02Tg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feT7V-XDsA0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAylqnLFgS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cg7mrs0ZX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOXXkvbpbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7ga9t02Tg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feT7V-XDsA0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAylqnLFgS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cg7mrs0ZX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzOXXkvbpbs
Bryonato
Green Hat
no vids of awestin because he doesnt post here lol
reslived
Smash Apprentice
well i just posted them.
make good vids easy to find so we can actually get better rather than circle jerking around mediocrity (y)
make good vids easy to find so we can actually get better rather than circle jerking around mediocrity (y)
Bryonato
Green Hat
wowwwwwwwwwww this guy
choknater
Smash Obsessed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tzjc7zoP34&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Hey guys my laptop is currently broke which is why I haven't been posting as much. Here is a video of some friendlies of me playing against link. My first time playing against link.
On the same channel is a video of me playing against mario, almost an hour long but I play just as much Sheik as I play ness lol. Enjoy
Hey guys my laptop is currently broke which is why I haven't been posting as much. Here is a video of some friendlies of me playing against link. My first time playing against link.
On the same channel is a video of me playing against mario, almost an hour long but I play just as much Sheik as I play ness lol. Enjoy