Samus' super wave dash!

[RaigothDagon]

I am not for certain how I did it, but directly after laying a bomb from the ground I went into a dash attack and went extraordinarily far when playing Samus! I'm sure some of you would be able to test this and find out exactly how this is accomplished, but I have a video of me doing this, and I will try to post it up as soon as I can.

 

[Solo Assass1n]

You have sparked my interest, sir.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Try to get the video here, this might be useful.

 

[ADHD]

We shouldn't trust this until we get the video, don't get your hopes up!

 

[RaigothDagon]

I don't want to get your hopes up either. I just looked back at my replay and noticed it is about as long as Samus' regular dash attack length. But I think this may still be something considering there was no lag time straight into the dash attack from the ball form. I have repeatedly tried to do this dash attack again and again and have not been able to pull it off yet. I will try to get that video going soon, so keep looking out for it.

 

[ADHD]

I don't want to get your hopes up either. I just looked back at my replay and noticed it is about as long as Samus' regular dash attack length. But I think this may still be something considering there was no lag time straight into the dash attack from the ball form. I have repeatedly tried to do this dash attack again and again and have not been able to pull it off yet. I will try to get that video going soon, so keep looking out for it.

Still though, if you could get a dash out of that piece of crap morph ball trap then it would be useful for mind games

 

[M@v]

1 question. Were you playing melee? If so, this is old news. If not, get a vid up!

 

[Yorenec]

Shortly after you put up your post I started to play around for the past 2 hours trying to recreate it to no joy.

It led me on such a wild goose chase that for a bit when I was screwing around I became sorta convinced there was a way to cancel bomb lag and use it as a more convenient way to sh bair. That turned out to be a dead end though.

Would help if you got this video up so I had a better idea of what exactly you did.

 

[Nocturnal~Dragon]

plz get a vid up

 

[RaigothDagon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVQMH32mp0o
Again, sorry if a lot of you will be disappointed about it not being a super wave dash, but like I said, it is worth seeing. Sorry too about the quality. Not a good webcam.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Yep, quality is pretty bad, but doesn´t matter. I actually didn´t really believe in super wawedash in the first place to be honest... But it looks like ball state canceling, which would offer some nice possibilities if it can be repeated. Could ppl with Brawl keep examining this so that we would get more information?

 

[brg]

that is actually pretty sweet, dash attack out of morph ball
it seems samus didnt lose her trickiness....

 

[Yorenec]

I have little idea what you did. I spent about three hours straight earlier trying to replicate this to no avail.

Think you can send me the raw footage of that video so I can study it in at least some better quality. Send me a pm or something.

It looks like after the ball you went into a roll and then somehow immediately canceled the roll and went straight into a dash.

How though, I have no idea.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I have little idea what you did. I spent about three hours straight earlier trying to replicate this to no avail.

Think you can send me the raw footage of that video so I can study it in at least some better quality. Send me a pm or something.

It looks like after the ball you went into a roll and then somehow immediately canceled the roll and went straight into a dash.

How though, I have no idea.

So that means it might not actually be ball cancel but roll cancel (or even ball cancel with roll followed up by roll cancel)? But if so, it might be possible with more characters than Samus alone. This is getting even more interesting... But better not to get overexcited yet.

 

[Yorenec]

So that means it might not actually be ball cancel but roll cancel (or even ball cancel with roll followed up by roll cancel)? But if so, it might be possible with more characters than Samus alone. This is getting even more interesting... But better not to get overexcited yet.

It's really hard to tell actually WHAT he did and I've watched that video at least 300 times now.

It does look like he went into a roll straight from the bomb cause I do that to sneak off a quick fsmash on people avoiding the bomb.
Instead he just somehow immediately canceled and went straight into a dash.

I've played with it even some more and thought of a ton of different ways he could have done that and none of them have checked out unless I'm doing something wrong which is a very realistic possibility.

I'm stumped as hell.

It might be for everybody and it might be Samus only cause I'm pretty sure what he did had SOMETHING to do with the bomb.

 

[RaigothDagon]

I have tried replicating this technique by trying to do a dash out of morph ball, and although I can't do it AS fast, I do it pretty quickly. I've noticed that Brawl gives you a chance to do an attack directly from another attack even if it is in the middle of the first attack that you input the button combination. Here is a little idea on how to do it at least somewhat quickly. Do the bomb, after a while from being in morph ball tap left or right on the control stick, then press A, timing A as you would for a regular dash attack. I think if you time a regular dash to where A comes in right after morph ball, you will be able to do it. Not exactly sure though if this is correct, or if I just randomly stumbled on this by being the "button masher" as I am...(was called "The Button Masher" at a tournament I won at a local GameCrazy)

 

[Half-Split Soul]

It's really hard to tell actually WHAT he did and I've watched that video at least 300 times now.

Wow, that sure is a LOT .

I've played with it even some more and thought of a ton of different ways he could have done that and none of them have checked out unless I'm doing something wrong which is a very realistic possibility.

I'm stumped as hell.

It might be for everybody and it might be Samus only cause I'm pretty sure what he did had SOMETHING to do with the bomb.

I agree that it seems logical that it had some connection with the bomb, otherwise there would propably be some notices about this with other characters or in other situations. But yeh, I´m completely mixed up too...

 

[Yorenec]

Alright guys, he's right.

It's completely possible and I've done it a bunch of times now.

Oddly enough what he said is among one of the first things I considered, I was just doing it entirely wrong.

It doesn't even really have anything to do with rolling, I was wrong about that too.

First off a few things. I haven't mastered it, I can't do it with any real consistency yet, but let me most assuredly tell you it is real and you can dash directly out of morph ball form. In fact, after playing with it some more, I'm really beginning to think this is just another thing that cancels when she hits the ground. She really is pretty **** lagless like Hylian theorized.

The timing is tricky though and I'm starting to get it down.

What you do is like he said. Drop the bomb and I mean as soon and by soon I mean it has to be in PERFECT synchronization. As soon as she touches the ground in morph ball form, DASH. I mean you have to dash the literal exact moment that she hits the ground in order for it to work. If you do it right, she'll dash and you can dash attack, up +b, usmash, or just stop and fsmash/dtilt. You can run roughly 35-40% across FD before the bomb explodes if you do it right.

Now, it's not any kind of super wd or any wd really, it's just a normal dash. You're just doing it straight out of morph ball form is all.

As for the implications of this. It'll be good for mindgames, bomb backwards and make somebody think you're laying bomb cover to retreat then dash out of it and hit them with something. That's the only real practical use I can think of.

So yes it is technically ball-state canceling and I'm now wondering if Sonic can do something like it.

Edit: Few tips. Watching her shadow helps.. Rolling the control stick backwards to bomb backwards then rolling it clockwise if you're facing left and counterclockwise if you're facing right as soon as she hits the ground helps tons to execute it properly

More tips when I have a better handle of it.

 

[Eten]

EDIT: All this was supposed to go up before Yoranec posted, just forums were slow. He know's what's up above, I was just theorizing below.

Well, if we want to talk about other characters to see if this is related to anything, movement glitches I know that people have found: From the top of my head...

-Snake's dash attack cancel super wave damage(requires no dash-attack hit, best that could be understood that some interesting combination of input 4 frames into a used dash attack caused to cancel, carrying it's momentum into an extreme sliding upsmash)
-King Dedede's charged rocket hammer- glitch in between standing and shuffling forward stances while taking damage cause him to zoom across the course at nearly SWD speed. It's important that he's taking damage(he does so from his rocket hammer) and he's right on the degree between standing still and barely moving on the control stick.
-Glide throwing, which I think can be done by just about anybody with a projectile. This involves a roll being cancelled, so...
-There are a few special attacks out there that usually add some sort of momentum or movement to a character when timed right with a second jump that cause usually extraordinarily large or bizarre jumps(see Lucas pk fire jump, sonic's spin dash cancelled by a second jump, and I've even seen ZSS doing something like this with her down-b jump and a second jump at nearly the same time)

Also, the things I know about Samus's morphball/bombs-
Higher weight seems to effect the control of the morphball. Doing a down-b just off the ground from a jump can let you get the morphball lower to the stage as you don't pop up as much from the initial morphballing action, and being just a bit under a bomb while in morphball mode when it goes off jerks you upwards very quickly in a somewhat bizarre fashion.

Lastly, after playing around with a lot of different characters, Samus either feels the most polished or something as there seems to be very little "kooky" things to find whiile playing her, almost as if they took the time to elaborately add certain barriers to certain actions to prevent any strange manipulation.(summary: cannot execute X action Y frames after Z action but can execute Z-2 action but only if in circumstance B, not A)

 

[Pi]

:o, this is so interesting! An advanced tech/Glitch/Exploit :D

I wish we could have frame data! Someone get M2K in here!

 

[Gum]

yeah its no lie i did it a couple of time today

 

[FmAiGkGeO]

I've popped out of the ball straight into a dash run. It's not to hard to do. I pulled it once on accident then tried a couple more times in training. I know you can go ball then right as you come out into a dash.

 

[Rohins]

Press down right as you land to cancel the morphball, then run or do whatever. This is like <3's bomb technique from melee. Great find Raigoth

 

[The Darkness]

im not sure if im doing this right, but when i was practicing it, i figured out that you cannot only do the dash out of a bomb, in fact you can do anything in the same way, you can make a smash, tilt, even you can missile, up-b, out of it, thats because of the lack of lag that you have if you make something when you touch the floor, its the same if you keep mashing b when bombing you would leave another bomb very quickly, its the same way that dashing when touching the floor only a bit more tricky.

like i said before, o dont know if im doing it right, but i think i am. =)

 

[ADHD]

Can someone answer this question?

So in theory, you could do another bomb out of a bomb cancel, then keep bomb canceling? Wouldn't that mean her bombs could pottentially be near as fast as melee?

 

[The Darkness]

i dont know if i understood the question, anyway..

in theory ground bombing would be as fast as melee, the thing is that if you got hit by a bomb you have LOTS of lag when you couldnt do anything, and in melee you could do all aerials out of a bomb, thats why bomb recovery isnt possible like in melee

 

[Vaul]

Wow...talk about some serious mind game potential.

First, to ChromePirate, the answer, I believe, is no. In melee bombs detonated on impact so they could be replaced much faster. In brawl they're timed, so even with bomb canceling (just continuously down b) you can only have a max of two bombs out at time, just because its still physically impossible to get a third out in time. so yea. thrilling.

But onto the good stuff.

I practiced this for awhile, and like Darkness mentioned, you can do pretty much anything out of a bomb cancel lag free. Now I know these are only early impressions from someone with 1 post, but I'm having high hopes with this. This can be one hell of a defensive AT (yes, an actual AT). It's pretty easy to learn, but mastering bomb canceling will surely be a difficult art when used correctly. Here's a relatively vague and rather poorly written scenario: Your opponent approaches from the ground, say Sheik (because she is Satan). Samus mines and falls backward. Not only will Sheik hesitate approaching on the ground now, but you've got some serious options available. You can do b-cancel to dash attack, which comes out unexpectedly FAST. You can b-cancel to dash grab, which when timed with the bomb detonating is borderline arousing. You can dash into upsmash, into an aerial, etc. The point is that although b-canceling probably shouldn't become part of Samus' dominant strategy, this can be extremely useful in frustrating aggressive opponents (i.e. sheiktards) and even edgeguarding (sending a bomb over the ledge and b-canceling into who knows what).

So am I just aimlessly speculating, or do you think b-canceling will actually be useful for competitive play?

 

[Nick A]

Press down right as you land to cancel the morphball, then run or do whatever. This is like <3's bomb technique from melee. Great find Raigoth

this is working perfectly for me. thanks for the exact directions.

pretty good mind games, especially when you take a huge leap backwards with the ball and then dash forward and throw... oo too good

 

[W.Jr]

so no swd...........

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Wow...talk about some serious mind game potential.

First, to ChromePirate, the answer, I believe, is no. In melee bombs detonated on impact so they could be replaced much faster. In brawl they're timed, so even with bomb canceling (just continuously down b) you can only have a max of two bombs out at time, just because its still physically impossible to get a third out in time. so yea. thrilling.

But onto the good stuff.

I practiced this for awhile, and like Darkness mentioned, you can do pretty much anything out of a bomb cancel lag free. Now I know these are only early impressions from someone with 1 post, but I'm having high hopes with this. This can be one hell of a defensive AT (yes, an actual AT). It's pretty easy to learn, but mastering bomb canceling will surely be a difficult art when used correctly. Here's a relatively vague and rather poorly written scenario: Your opponent approaches from the ground, say Sheik (because she is Satan). Samus mines and falls backward. Not only will Sheik hesitate approaching on the ground now, but you've got some serious options available. You can do b-cancel to dash attack, which comes out unexpectedly FAST. You can b-cancel to dash grab, which when timed with the bomb detonating is borderline arousing. You can dash into upsmash, into an aerial, etc. The point is that although b-canceling probably shouldn't become part of Samus' dominant strategy, this can be extremely useful in frustrating aggressive opponents (i.e. sheiktards) and even edgeguarding (sending a bomb over the ledge and b-canceling into who knows what).

So am I just aimlessly speculating, or do you think b-canceling will actually be useful for competitive play?

Of cource it will. I think that there´s no such thing as useless technic. Everything has it´s time and space, for mindgames if nothing else. And let me say: there´s only one thing stronger than mindgames. That´s better mindgames.

 

[RaigothDagon]

I know a lot of you are pulling it off now, so this is good news. Lots of people are not seeing its uses though, especially with the crappy video quality I can give. Could someone else please get a better video up of it, demonstrating what it can do? Thanks.

 

[BigRick]

Nice find

Makes me wanna try samus out and camp with bombs

QUOTE=Half-Split Soul;4161497]Of cource it will. I think that there´s no such thing as useless technic. Everything has it´s time and space, for mindgames if nothing else. And let me say: there´s only one thing stronger than mindgames. That´s better mindgames.[/QUOTE]

*pukes*

 

[Treeko]

blah blah blah... You can b-cancel to dash grab, which when timed with the bomb detonating is borderline arousing. ...blah blah blah

Haha xD That was an awesome post. Also... I must try this.

 

[D4RK_HUNT3R]

I'd love for someone to make extensive use of this in a match and post it on Youtube *cough*

 

[0RLY]

*After 3 days of trying to perform this* Okay, this is so hard it's not even funny. Are you sure you can only cancel the Morph Ball animation with a dash? What about holding down for a crouch or A for a jab?

 

[Rohins]

*After 3 days of trying to perform this* Okay, this is so hard it's not even funny. Are you sure you can only cancel the Morph Ball animation with a dash? What about holding down for a crouch or A for a jab?

Crouch as you land. That cancels the landing lag and you can dash / whatever after landing from morph ball.

 

[Cynix]

I'd love for someone to make extensive use of this in a match and post it on Youtube *cough*

i second that notion!

 

[Rohins]

I recorded a better quality video of the technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo-GYy1uGvg

First I do a few runs out of bomb. You can see this is faster than just dropping a bomb and running, sorry I didn't record that to show side by side. Afterwards I do a few shields after bomb. If you just hold shield it takes a while before it pops out, if you crouch the shield comes out instantly.

 

[0RLY]

Nice vid Rohins! Also, is it faster to jump and immediately drop the bomb as opposed to just dropping the bomb on the ground? In melee, there was a significant difference...

 

[Dobs1007]

Thanks for the vid Rohins and props to RaigothDagon for original discover .