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The top post of the other thread isn't being maintained. It wouldn't hurt to merge that thread into this thread.
So in the case of Mew2's fair, we use our nair or Zair?
I don't know, no one else has posted.
I simply charge a down-angled f-smash and outright kill him. Standing in the right spot f-smash is sufficiently disjointed that he can't hit us, and we definitely hit him. The timing isn't that strict even, since we can charge the smash.
Eh, I think if he sweet spots from low he can avoid dangled fsmash but not dtilt.
I don't think he can sweetspot the ledge from below the stage. I'm pretty sure he can only snap to the ledge from above or directly next to it.
It's not a true "sweet spot" but I'm pretty certain he can grab the ledge from the end of upb below where we can challenge it with dangled fsmash.
I don't think it's that tough to do once you put in time with Cloud. I agree you can definitely get the fsmash punish if cloud recovers too high (from below). I just think it's better to challenge him off stage with a bomb plus aerials.
It's much easier to help specific questions like this if you save a replay.
The 1.1.1 shield changes make back air really important. It's not super unsafe on shield against Ike and it is a very powerful move. Definitely don't get greedy when Ike hits shield with nair. You can maybe shield drop to jab if he hits high on shield, but don't even think about grabbing. Jab actually has OK reach and is 6 frames faster than grab OoS. UpB oos is great if the nair is poorly spaced.
It would be cool if someone were to make a hurtbox video. I've thought about it for sometime now, but I'm finishing up this combo vid and will lie low for a bit after that since these are a lot of work. You can test the disjointedness and hurtbox extension with bumpers in training mode. Particularly important is the disjoint on f-smash, which while it does extend the hurtbox forward and has visual + frame problems, is still a reasonable disjoint. Particularly relevant to the cloud matchup, as I continue to murder clouds with down-angled f-smash. I also continue to see pros not take advantage of his ledge grab hurtbox, I'm mystified as to why. He's literally the easiest in the game to hit on ledge snap.
Keep in mind that Shadow Ball has much lower endlag. This makes it much better when it comes to continuing pressure, as well as giving uncharged shots much more utility (especially with the movement buff). Charge Shot is more of a "finisher" after a string of pressure, and there's also missiles that help Samus conserve her charge.
Is sun salutation a bit stronger with deep breathing? I thought it was but I haven't tested it.
Depends on percentage and amount of limit break left to charge. Right at the beginning? Easily, you want to get your CS. Plus it hurts his aerial combo game. If he is around 70% (prime gimp percent), you don't want to let him get the better recovery move. If he just whiffed at high percent, you should still charge up CS because it gives you a kill move and a shield pressure move without him even getting a full charge. Like all things, it's situation dependent.
I don't have a video, but just general hurtbox stuff I found on bumpers. Some stuff was surprising, other stuff wasn't.
Xygonn
with Deep Breathing SS kills about 15% later than CS.
Yeah, the surprising things that even Samus mains with lots of playtime don't realize: that's why I still think we need a videoVyrnx said:
Ah ah, be careful there. The arm cannon is not a hurtbox on grab until you actually start to grab something. You can see this with a bumper between you and a target. So without actually grabbing, you're not going to get reflected - but succeed in the grab and BAM. It's very, very stupid. I highlighted this in the community patch request video specifically because it drives me nuts.
JAZZ_
If you're trying to recover in tether range, missile, regular homing variety, is often the only answer. You have to toss it out fairly early in a rising jump or you commit suicide. It is quite safe to recover low, very low against Marth, with walljump if possible since his d-air is garbage tier. Breaking the tendency to stay in the range of a tether option, is hard - I know this happens to me regularly as well and it's a bad habit I can't seem to kick.
He covers a low low get up with a drop down dolphin slash, itll punch through screw attack. The homing missile is a good idea, risky biscuits, but still a good idea.
Are you air dodging? I find that air dodge is helpful in this situation, so long as the marth doesn't read your air dodge like a pro. And, you can air from your air dodge whenever to tether. Or you can try to come in low and then double jump fair to catch him as he comes down.
He's very good at reading airdodges. in fact when i air dodged against him, he'd simply dolphin slash back to the ledge hitting me again in the process. Going low seems ideal here, relying on airdodges will only create more openings for him to exploit. Its just getting past his lighting quick ledge release Bair and Nair and dolphin slash thats the tricky part.
