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samus help

MexicanBJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
211
hey guys,

im just looking for general advice in the marth/samus matchup

i would post a vid but i dont have any of that matchup.....

but things im having trouble with i guess are like missiles, um just like inability to kill except for random tippers

so yea, thanks
 

Fortress | Sveet

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first things first, learn how to jab and fair through missiles 100% of the time. after that learn how to dodge them with wavelands and WD out of shield. then learn how to use any move you have to beat them.

after that you have broken her camp game but her stage game is still decent. samus can crouch cancel til really high percents, so you have to be careful with your spacing. i suggest using nair as your main tool in this match up.

edge guarding process isn't much different than other match ups, its just slower. if she sweetspots with her grapple you will have to cactuar her until she doesn't have it or can't sweet spot it. once that happens you can just fsmash her through her up b. dtilt hits easier, but you will rarely get a kill with it.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
I'd advise staying close to her. Not close enough to get hit by Screw Attack, mind you, but close enough so that she can't shorthop missile comfortably.
 

AceDudeyeah

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
967
Location
Floridaa!
Watch out for her sex-kicking you after a fair.
That stuff messes you up when you're trying to combo her in the air and she's at early percents but you're at high.

If she shoots a missile when you're trying to recover, watch out. She wants you to jump over it/drop down/whatever. Get ready to swat her away when needed.
 

Halloween

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
49
Location
Philadelphia
I have alot of trouble agaisnt my friends samus, and IMHO i find my friend running laps around current samus pros, but he isn't known at all. What i find usefull is Nairs, and get the timing down for her missles. Like other people said watch for crouch canceling, and mix it up with ur grabs. This helps me alot, but i still end up loosing. My friend is just too good for me =P
 

Fortress | Sveet

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i don't advise grabbing a samus unless she is shielding too much. you can't do anything with the grab if they know how to DI.

nairs beat her CC and spot dodge game.

fairs beat her air game.

watch out for WD back -> fsmash. its really painful.
 

Halloween

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
49
Location
Philadelphia
ah yea. my Friend Wds back and fsmashes me. I dont really have a counter for it, excpet being patient. I got a question tho. Sometimes her Fsmash reaches farther then my sword, but other times it will come up just short and my hit reaches him. Which actually has more reach, Samus' Fsmash or marths sword? Also i need away around her pesky Dtilt. thanks
 

X1-12

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
2,022
Location
Southampton, UK
Is there any easy way to practise defending against samus's missiles other than playing someone who uses them?
 

chaindude

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
415
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B.C
ah yea. my Friend Wds back and fsmashes me. I dont really have a counter for it, excpet being patient. I got a question tho. Sometimes her Fsmash reaches farther then my sword, but other times it will come up just short and my hit reaches him. Which actually has more reach, Samus' Fsmash or marths sword? Also i need away around her pesky Dtilt. thanks
Marth leans forward on some his moves you could be missing then while still leaning forward he hits you

to get around a dtilt try dash dancing and baiting it then follow up with whatever you can
 

Halloween

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
49
Location
Philadelphia
Marth leans forward on some his moves you could be missing then while still leaning forward he hits you

to get around a dtilt try dash dancing and baiting it then follow up with whatever you can
The thing is no matter what i do its crouch-canceled. Her downtilt has so much reach, and its an automatic CC for the samus, then she can follow up with watever.

The other day i played sheik vs samus, and i second sheik, im not bad at all with her. I just couldnt find a way to kill samus. That dam thing kept coming back for more, and i ended up gettin 3 stocked.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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you realize those are samus' worst matchups, right?

marth: you have to space really well. If you can't space, you lose. Way to win: learn to space.
sheik: use needles when she is recovering. she shouldnt make it anywhere near the stage if you do it right.
 

ArcNatural

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I have alot of trouble agaisnt my friends samus, and IMHO i find my friend running laps around current samus pros, but he isn't known at all. What i find usefull is Nairs, and get the timing down for her missles. Like other people said watch for crouch canceling, and mix it up with ur grabs. This helps me alot, but i still end up loosing. My friend is just too good for me =P
Your friend would look better than most Samus Pros if he can CC you into dsmash/dtilt. Spaced correctly fair should never be CC'd into those moves, and if you misspace and you clearly see the crouch, either dair or try a really late fair/2nd hit nair to buffer roll. Samus Pro's have to deal with players that can pretty much outspace her CC game a majority of the time.

ah yea. my Friend Wds back and fsmashes me. I dont really have a counter for it, excpet being patient. I got a question tho. Sometimes her Fsmash reaches farther then my sword, but other times it will come up just short and my hit reaches him. Which actually has more reach, Samus' Fsmash or marths sword? Also i need away around her pesky Dtilt. thanks
If your friend can wavedash back to fsmash multiple times in a match you need to start looking at yourself. This is an indication to me that your attacking where he is rather than where he is probably going. This is a result of poor spacing as well. If you space fair correctly wavedash back fsmash won't reach and CC won't have a dsmash/dtilt counter.

If you want to attack the wavedash back rather than space for safety you need to dash further and shffl or dtilt where you think the wavedash will take Samus, not his original position.
 

Halloween

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49
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Your friend would look better than most Samus Pros if he can CC you into dsmash/dtilt. Spaced correctly fair should never be CC'd into those moves, and if you misspace and you clearly see the crouch, either dair or try a really late fair/2nd hit nair to buffer roll. Samus Pro's have to deal with players that can pretty much outspace her CC game a majority of the time.



If your friend can wavedash back to fsmash multiple times in a match you need to start looking at yourself. This is an indication to me that your attacking where he is rather than where he is probably going. This is a result of poor spacing as well. If you space fair correctly wavedash back fsmash won't reach and CC won't have a dsmash/dtilt counter.

If you want to attack the wavedash back rather than space for safety you need to dash further and shffl or dtilt where you think the wavedash will take Samus, not his original position.

Whenever my friend CCs its usually from the dtilt then he follows up with whatever move he wants. There isn't much i can do if i get hit with his Dtilt. Also one thing about " Samus Pro's have to deal with players that can pretty much outspace her CC game a majority of the time." You havn't seen my friend play. i can honestly tell you he is no doubt better then hugs and wes. When i watch them play its like watching my friend play two years ago. This is why we're deciding on weather or not to go to that Tourny in new york sometime in november.

As for everything else you said ill try it next time he comes back from college.
 

ArcNatural

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Whenever my friend CCs its usually from the dtilt then he follows up with whatever move he wants. There isn't much i can do if i get hit with his Dtilt. Also one thing about " Samus Pro's have to deal with players that can pretty much outspace her CC game a majority of the time." You havn't seen my friend play. i can honestly tell you he is no doubt better then hugs and wes. When i watch them play its like watching my friend play two years ago. This is why we're deciding on weather or not to go to that Tourny in new york sometime in november.

As for everything else you said ill try it next time he comes back from college.
Now I want to know who your friend is, and if he goes to tourneys.

I sincerely doubt he is better than Hugs who can place top 10 in any MAJOR tourney he plays. That would put your friend in the top 10 best players in the world. Do you really think he could place top 10 at Pound 4?
 

DJMirror

Smash Master
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Dec 4, 2008
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edge guarding process isn't much different than other match ups, its just slower. if she sweetspots with her grapple you will have to cactuar her until she doesn't have it or can't sweet spot it. once that happens you can just fsmash her through her up b. dtilt hits easier, but you will rarely get a kill with it.
What is it? can you please explain this to me?
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Watch cactuar play. If you grab the edge he spaces himself and covers all your options and then hits you back off the stage.
 

datstupidmarth

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Oct 12, 2009
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fuzzy land
i find the best way to fight samus is to stay close but still have proper spacing make her play to your pace don't play to hers
 

BBQ°

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
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The way I like to play against Samus with Marth is to slow down the pace of the match a lot. Once you get Samus in the air, go berserk but make sure you tip all of your aerials or she will combo break with a nair or something.

When I'm on the ground and so is Samus, I jab through all of her missiles (jab seems to be the fastest and you don't have to be in the air... samus seems to like it when you forward air her missles). I then approach using spaced down tilts or forward tilts. Space down tilt so it will be just out of poking range (so it won't hit her). This covers a few of Samus's movement options. If you space like that, I'm pretty sure she can't hit you with anything.

Once you are in that specific range, start alternating down tilts and forward tilts. The forward tilt has a tad bit more range than dtilt, and it pressures her shield. By doing this, she is trapped in her shield from the ftilt's range, and trapped in zone where she can't hit you because of the dtilt's speed. If she decides to grab, your ftilt will out speed it. If she tries to jump, you can fsmash and it will most likely be a tipper.

Also, you want to be pressuring like this when she is near the ledge, since she doesn't have any space to run away. If you are not in this position, you can keep up with her by simply walking and still keep your perfect spacing.

Since you are covering so many of her options, she will be taking hits, and eventually you will get a tipper ftilt or fsmash, and once you get her off stage or in the air, you can really start doing damage.

I get most of my kills from side-b -> uptilt or just by smart edgeguards using bairs and such.

I hardly approach her from the air if she is on the ground because it seems like she has too many options to cover your approaches. You can tip your aerials so she can't crouch cancel, but then she can just wavedash out of your tipper range and hit you.

I also like to use counter a lot in this matchup. Maybe it's just the samuses I play, but I think it's always really obvious when they are going to attack. Sometimes I like to empty shorthop approach and they immediately crouch so they can dtilt me. I then use down-b counter to hit them. Be cautious though... you can't be abusing counter too much. You can also predict when they are going to escape your combo if you screw up your spacing. Expect them to nair, so if you have time to pull out a counter, then go for it. I only use counter like 5x per match against samus though. Just keep them guessing.
 

Halloween

Smash Cadet
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Sep 16, 2009
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Philadelphia
nice info BBQ. Counter does work magic agaisnt a samus, but ur right don't abuse it. My friend caught on real fast and dashes into me (i down b and it misses), the samus WD's back then Fsmashes. You also were saying u dont approach with aerials, when i approach its either with a Nair or a Fair, and i usually don't get punished much by them. When i get punished its usually from HER Nair, dtilt, or crouch cancel and after that its just a combo fest cuz my friend reads me pretty well. Ill try the Dair -> grab n see how that works out.

Question: The only way i can kill his samus is if its over 160% Or just a high percentage overall. I need some killing tactics agaisnt this stock tank. Shes so hard to kill :confused:
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
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Counter doesn't really do anything for you. If you're going to do something like that, you should just short hop at them, waveland through and grab them from behind.

Also what's this shield pressure business? Why not just...grab them?

Honestly, just keep Samus above you or off the stage, and you're in business.
 

BBQ°

Smash Champion
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Counter doesn't really do anything for you. If you're going to do something like that, you should just short hop at them, waveland through and grab them from behind.
ahh.. that sounds good. I'll try it :)

Also what's this shield pressure business? Why not just...grab them?
because grabbing them means you have to be in their range.

Honestly, just keep Samus above you or off the stage, and you're in business.
this.

although getting samus in the air is the hardest part.... and even then... it's not that hard :)
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
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Well if they're already in shield, what are they in range for? Their grab? olololol

Seriously though, if they space ftilt, grab her leg as she's pulling it back. Or just pop out with a fair to launch her, then pwn.
 

Halloween

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Counter doesn't really do anything for you. If you're going to do something like that, you should just short hop at them, waveland through and grab them from behind.

Also what's this shield pressure business? Why not just...grab them?

Honestly, just keep Samus above you or off the stage, and you're in business.
Counter actually does help. Especiallyy when your gonna predict the hit and you know its coming. It'l send the samus flying back and then you can follow up with a Nair or Fair.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
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=S Follow up on a Counter? It's not a legitimate combo. It's really just seven damage, woohoo.

Plus Counter isn't that fast. I'd much rather just hit them with something.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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counter = mental blow to the opponent + free tech chase (there are lots of random ceiling glitches with counters too)
 

elvenarrow3000

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The ceiling glitch comes from getting hit right after having your hit blocked. It's seen more in like... free for alls and such.

There's a clip in Happy Feet... I wanna say... 3, where Zhu shines out of shield fast enough for it to happen, which I was fairly impressed by.

EDIT:

Point taken about the tech chase, though.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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i counter more than most other marths, match-up and player dependant, and i see a LOT of counter spikes. upwards of 50% of my counters
 
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