Sakurai's thoughts on "balance"

[gameplayzero]

http://wiiudaily.com/2015/02/sakurai-smash-online-balance-patches/

Please make this on the front page so everyone can see this. This is an interesting read and I want everyone to see this.

 

[Raijinken]

I'll never understand how a level playing field would make it less about playing the game. Isn't the goal for everyone to be able to use whoever they want and still stand a chance?

 

[RanserSSF4]

I understand Sakurai's point, but making every character equal does NOT make the game less fun. If anything, it makes the game more enjoyable to play and watch and have some great character diversity.

 

[Artmastercorey]

I agree with what Ranser said. If that were the case then none of the character should get any nerfs when the game was patched.

 

[Blazerator]

Well he said that balance shouldn't be based solely on competitive play.

 

[Roukiske]

I'm one of those people who thinks making everyone "equal" a bad thing. I don't believe there has been a game like that so I'd like to see something like that tested out I guess. Again, it would be interesting to TEST, but we don't have a game like that right now. I think of balance this way:

Lets say characters have different, but pretty close movesets. There's 3 stats STR, VIT, AGI and everyone had 5 points of it. So really you can play any character you want and they're all different in a small way, but I mean, can you really call it diverse gameplay? If everyone had down-throw up-air combo (in some shape or form) is it really diverse? Balanced games to me would take that kind of stuff and be something like the up STR and lower VIT type of "balance". Balance like STR slightly better than VIT but slightly worse than AGI balance. This is just an analogy though, Smash has a large amount of factors.

Now I definitely don't want characters to be "equal" in a sense. Would I like nearly everyone to be what you call "viable"? That would be AWESOME. And I mean viable in their own unique way. I understand though, doing that is extremely hard to do.

I'm not turned off by the idea, I'm just stating my opinion. It's not bad to look at it both ways. As much as I'd like to see all characters used I also want to see all sorts of play styles and setups used too. If 25/50 characters can do this then that's still pretty good. I think what Sakurai is thinking is not that the game would be less fun, but as far as competitiveness goes, would it negatively impact the overall game? We can speculate, but we can't really know right now.

 

[Morbi]

I'll never understand how a level playing field would make it less about playing the game. Isn't the goal for everyone to be able to use whoever they want and still stand a chance?

Not necessarily, if someone wishes to handicap on themselves, they are certainly more than welcome to. In a game like this, characters are balanced differently. You will have characters such as the heavy-weights that are not entirely viable in a stock match, but in a timed match (standard two minutes) or perhaps coin match? They are the preferred characters. You can use whoever you want in whatever context, but they are never going to be equal depending on the meta-game.

If Sakurai's intent was to make the game exclusively competitive, an argument can be made that the goal is for everyone to be able to use whoever they want and still stand a chance. However, that is clearly not his goal. Or even if it was, he failed at it regardless of whether or not it was a self-imposed goal.

 

[salaboB]

Not necessarily, if someone wishes to handicap on themselves, they are certainly more than welcome to. In a game like this, characters are balanced differently. You will have characters such as the heavy-weights that are not entirely viable in a stock match, but in a timed match (standard two minutes) or perhaps coin match? They are the preferred characters. You can use whoever you want in whatever context, but they are never going to be equal depending on the meta-game.

The meta-game is just the expression of understood balance in the game, it's not what makes a character viable or not.

That said, as long as a character has a mode they're viable in that's great. But I don't think that's always the case -- a lot of characters that aren't particularly heavy aren't really competitive anywhere, and that's a shame.

So I think it would be ideal if all characters were balanced so they were competitively viable in _some_ reasonably played mode (Stock or Timed seem the most balanced and should be able to have everyone balanced for one or the other). It's really a great point that you make that the different modes have different top tier characters, and that's something that I think is often overlooked.

As a random aside for why I picked Stock/Timed, Stamina probably reflects Stock pretty heavily (Higher % damage results in KO, and it punishes heavy characters even more than Stock does because there's no weight bonus for health) and coin probably matches Timed closely. So sticking with the more standard modes seems like a reasonable baseline.

 

[Quillion]

I understand Sakurai's point, but making every character equal does NOT make the game less fun. If anything, it makes the game more enjoyable to play and watch and have some great character diversity.

Well, tell that to Melee fans. THEY SERIOUSLY SAY THIS.

Also, I think we've gotten the closest explanation to Ganondorf not using his sword. He REALLY doesn't want to alienate Melee fans to the point of keeping him unfaithful to his series origins.

 

[alex colucci]

neat bruh brooo

 

[Random765]

I dont get why this guy is completeľy opposed to competetive play.

I understand that this franchise is a key money-making asset for Nintendo. After all, it's one of the reasons alone why consumers are willing to purchase their console in the first place.

But I dont comprehend why game directors feel the need to baby and spoon-feed gamers in the first place.

"We need to produce a product that is more user-accessible and less difficult so the masses will purchase it" pretty much the developers mentality in a nutshell. I call bull****.

Why not create a game that challenges players, with a steep learning curve, that feels like a truly rewarding and embracing masterpiece to indulge in.

Casual audiences will still buy and play it, and loyal hardcore fans wouldn't be more content for years to come.

Melee was the epitome of that, and some of the franchises most hardcore and dedicated fans are playing it nearly 16 years later, with just as much passion and excitement.

This accesible, dumbed down mentality that encompasses franchises is a flawed one. That sums up why the Wii U product line lurks in the shadow of the likes of Xbox, Sony, and PC gaming.

I will say that Smash 4 was a step in the right direction, and there are myriad of gamers who would like to see that path continue forward.

 

[PCHU]

stuff

With Smash 4, I don't really feel like there's much more to learn, and it hurts me to see the guy in charge of the game is so biased against competitive players that he'd rather not buff characters that are clearly lacking (seriously, just let DK use Giant Punch without going into freefall so I can stop bringing it up).
I want to like the game and I want to keep playing it, but I feel like unless I pick up a more mobile character (or one with crazy recovery on aerials like Mario), I'm stuck making hard reads over and over again.

It doesn't matter how you slice it, having characters at least sort of equal will make a game more fun.
They made a handicap system for a reason; you shouldn't intentionally leave in "bad" characters to help better players give other people a chance; it hurts the people who actually like those characters.

 

[Random765]

With Smash 4, I don't really feel like there's much more to learn, and it hurts me to see the guy in charge of the game is so biased against competitive players that he'd rather not buff characters that are clearly lacking (seriously, just let DK use Giant Punch without going into freefall so I can stop bringing it up).
I want to like the game and I want to keep playing it, but I feel like unless I pick up a more mobile character (or one with crazy recovery on aerials like Mario), I'm stuck making hard reads over and over again.

It doesn't matter how you slice it, having characters at least sort of equal will make a game more fun.
They made a handicap system for a reason; you shouldn't intentionally leave in "bad" characters to help better players give other people a chance; it hurts the people who actually like those characters.

With technology nowadays, we can only hope that they'll create some balance patches.

It's easier said than done, but still. Lol

 

[RanserSSF4]

With Smash 4, I don't really feel like there's much more to learn, and it hurts me to see the guy in charge of the game is so biased against competitive players that he'd rather not buff characters that are clearly lacking (seriously, just let DK use Giant Punch without going into freefall so I can stop bringing it up).
I want to like the game and I want to keep playing it, but I feel like unless I pick up a more mobile character (or one with crazy recovery on aerials like Mario), I'm stuck making hard reads over and over again.

It doesn't matter how you slice it, having characters at least sort of equal will make a game more fun.
They made a handicap system for a reason; you shouldn't intentionally leave in "bad" characters to help better players give other people a chance; it hurts the people who actually like those characters.

I get how you feel, but making hard reads a lot isn't a bad thing at all. It makes mix-ups more interesting and exciting. Even Melee required hard reads if you want to kill early or go for a combo

 

[PCHU]

I get how you feel, but making hard reads a lot isn't a bad thing at all. It makes mix-ups more interesting and exciting. Even Melee required hard reads if you want to kill early or go for a combo

Oh, trust me, I get what you mean.
The problem is that outside of those reads, I find the neutral really empty; I don't feel like there's much "substance", and it takes away from the game for me.
I mean, even in Brawl I had low enough recovery on my aerials (or at least one or two) and adequate reach to properly space myself along with tilts for pokes and occasionally attack string starters, but here, it doesn't feel like I'm given much to work with because there's so much recovery that it's best to just go for the guaranteed stuff since it's mostly simple and, well, guaranteed.

I don't want to ask for much since a lot of the changes I'd like would alter the game much too heavily, but I would really like to see almost nothing but buffs for the "lower" characters and others that need them (mainly in recovery from attacks in general; gordo can get reflected before I even launch it, not to mention it's a huge gamble altogether because there isn't much that doesn't reflect it); it's the easiest thing I can think of that would give the characters more versatility and the game itself more variety.

Despite being a Falco/Fox main in Melee, I absolutely love decent heavies (and grapplers in traditional fighters) because most of the fun does come from hard reads, but when your character has trouble keeping up with even the basics, it starts to wear on you and a lot of matches become way more tedious than they should be (from my perspective).
PM DK is probably my favorite heavy of all time because he's actually freaking good but he's not so good that he completely outshines his flaws; even so, he's given tools (projectile armor, decent range) to help him struggle against characters that can capitalize on his flaws to keep the game balanced, but the tools still require a decent level of skill to use because they're intentionally specific to certain windows during certain moves, coincidentally moves that are used rather often in normal play to better his chances of being able to get in and put up a decent fight.

Or I could just be really stupid and do well at a game without knowing what I'm talking about.
I dunno; I've seen it happen and had it happen to me before, so I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[MOI-ARI]

I am now very confused by how biased Sakurai is towards any kind of design for competitive play. I honestly cant grasp his logic or standing on the 'leveling' for all characters.

Like i get the goal of appealing to casual players and whatnot ,but i dont think that goal has to interfere with the aspect of actual balancing gameplay of the game.... Little kids see the commercials and go "oh snap! Mario and link?! Oh what! Sonic?! YOOOOOO!" (or something like that) and ask their parents to buy it for them, Kids or casuals won't straight up wonder "hmm. i wonder how the MUs in this version will be. L-cancels plzz"

like no. Kids will buy this game anyways, balanced or not. People of the competitive SmashBoards will buy it and play for years to come, balanced and leveled...(sounded better in my head i swear...)

Sakurai has been doing good for the casuals with the franchise's charisma alone, its about time he do some good for the franchise's competitive forefront as well.

 

[RanserSSF4]

Oh, trust me, I get what you mean.
The problem is that outside of those reads, I find the neutral really empty; I don't feel like there's much "substance", and it takes away from the game for me.
I mean, even in Brawl I had low enough recovery on my aerials (or at least one or two) and adequate reach to properly space myself along with tilts for pokes and occasionally attack string starters, but here, it doesn't feel like I'm given much to work with because there's so much recovery that it's best to just go for the guaranteed stuff since it's mostly simple and, well, guaranteed.

I don't want to ask for much since a lot of the changes I'd like would alter the game much too heavily, but I would really like to see almost nothing but buffs for the "lower" characters and others that need them (mainly in recovery from attacks in general; gordo can get reflected before I even launch it, not to mention it's a huge gamble altogether because there isn't much that doesn't reflect it); it's the easiest thing I can think of that would give the characters more versatility and the game itself more variety.

Despite being a Falco/Fox main in Melee, I absolutely love decent heavies (and grapplers in traditional fighters) because most of the fun does come from hard reads, but when your character has trouble keeping up with even the basics, it starts to wear on you and a lot of matches become way more tedious than they should be (from my perspective).
PM DK is probably my favorite heavy of all time because he's actually freaking good but he's not so good that he completely outshines his flaws; even so, he's given tools (projectile armor, decent range) to help him struggle against characters that can capitalize on his flaws to keep the game balanced, but the tools still require a decent level of skill to use because they're intentionally specific to certain windows during certain moves, coincidentally moves that are used rather often in normal play to better his chances of being able to get in and put up a decent fight.

Or I could just be really stupid and do well at a game without knowing what I'm talking about.
I dunno; I've seen it happen and had it happen to me before, so I wouldn't be surprised.

i completely agree. Although they buffed ganondorf by reducing the recovery on his air attacks...except Dair (Outside of auto-cancel Bair and Uair), he's still not very viable due to his grab being short and awful and he's very slow (he's one of my secondaries, but i play him for fun). i feel if they buffed his speed a little, decrease recovery a little more, and increased his grab range, he would be great and be one of mains with Captain Falcon.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Casual or competitive, no one likes to lose with their favorite character because they're not very good. I have no idea what his thought processes are here.

 

[EchoesOfRain]

I don't mind it too much. Take a look at games like League of Legends. If they 'balance' a champion or two, the entire meta can change, which then leaves them to having to balance more champions around the meta, and so on and so forth.

 

[Ryuji]

People need to realize that the game can still be played competitively whether the game gets balanced or not, just not to the extent that they'd like it to be. Having said that, while I don't think Sm4sh is flawless and balanced by any means, it's still a fun game to play. I do disagree with Sakurai though that balancing the game would make the game less fun; if anything, it would make more people pick the game up and play it.

 

[Gidy]

Can anyone tell me why balance isn't a good thing? Having every character be viable? Look at Project M. They make every character good and viable. What is so bad about that? Is laziness from the developer why Ganondorf is so bad and has no accurate series representation?

Despite me believing balance does NOTHING to hurt the game and in most situations can help it, all we are wanting you to do Sakurai is to nerf some aspects of Diddy Kong, like his Dthrow Uair which makes the game less fun for players, which makes your point of balance making the game less fun invalid.

Hate me all you want, but I'm glad this is Sakurai's last smash game. He is too stubborn to take feedback from players which is what many other fighting game developers do. The goal the developers and fans have in common is make a game fun. We need someone from Namco or even Miyamoto to direct the next one.

Not necessarily, if someone wishes to handicap on themselves, they are certainly more than welcome to. In a game like this, characters are balanced differently. You will have characters such as the heavy-weights that are not entirely viable in a stock match, but in a timed match (standard two minutes) or perhaps coin match? They are the preferred characters. You can use whoever you want in whatever context, but they are never going to be equal depending on the meta-game.

If Sakurai's intent was to make the game exclusively competitive, an argument can be made that the goal is for everyone to be able to use whoever they want and still stand a chance. However, that is clearly not his goal. Or even if it was, he failed at it regardless of whether or not it was a self-imposed goal.

Why would you make a character bad deliberately in a game to be made fun? How is that fun? What if you just wanna play as that character because you like them as a character or like their franchise? It's no good losing because they were balanced poorly.

 

[MapleWooD]

So? It's a Smash game. Previously, they've never been updated regularly, it shouldn't come as a surprise even if the means are there. I think chaos is beautiful and an unbalanced game is fine by me since I love to challenge myself (hence why I play a lot of )

 

[Quillion]

Take a look at this thread. I can confirm that, yes, some people think balance really will ruin the fun.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm trying to figure out what exactly he means....there's a lot of ways to look at this even if I don't ENTIRELY agree with the idea that balance = less fun.

Perhaps though it's important to consider that watering down the "best" character in the sake of balance would take away some flavor from said character? I don't know, I can't understand Sakurai at all. It's too confusing. That's all I can pull from this though. Really the only thing in Smash 4 that needs tuning up are those lower tiered characters, honestly.

 

[Quillion]

I'm trying to figure out what exactly he means....there's a lot of ways to look at this even if I don't ENTIRELY agree with the idea that balance = less fun.

Perhaps though it's important to consider that watering down the "best" character in the sake of balance would take away some flavor from said character? I don't know, I can't understand Sakurai at all. It's too confusing. That's all I can pull from this though. Really the only thing in Smash 4 that needs tuning up are those lower tiered characters, honestly.

I think what he means is that he thinks "balance" = homogenization, as the best balance would be between characters who're incredibly similar.

Look at (v)Melee, for example. The entire top tier is made up of Fragile Speedsters. Even Jigglypuff can be considered a Fragile Speedster due to its air mobility and fairly quick moves.

It's very easy to create a balanced roster in theory if all characters are close in speed and other attributes, but factor in a desire for diversity (something I personally appreciate a bit more than balance) and it becomes insanely difficult.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think what he means is that he thinks "balance" = homogenization, as the best balance would be between characters who're incredibly similar.

Look at (v)Melee, for example. The entire top tier is made up of Fragile Speedsters. Even Jigglypuff can be considered a Fragile Speedster due to its air mobility and fairly quick moves.

It's very easy to create a balanced roster in theory if all characters are close in speed and other attributes, but factor in a desire for diversity (something I personally appreciate a bit more than balance) and it becomes insanely difficult.

That makes sense as well. It's a bit of a stretch to equate the concept of "balance" to that however, but I understand the struggle in balancing a game like this with movesets and the like while not watering down or creating characters that are just all too similar to one another.

 

[Roukiske]

Well, tell that to Melee fans. THEY SERIOUSLY SAY THIS.

Try not to fan the flames with that one... we say this because we like how the cast of characters that DO get played play very very differently. Its amazing actually, sure, not everyone is what you would call viable, but everyone played at a high level (EVERY character can be played at a high level) plays extremely differently with their own strengths and weaknesses and that's why I personally like it. DK isn't great right? Well he can up-air combo fast fallers (many high tier characters) and sometimes to death. There's that Rock-Paper-Scissors balance, while its not a perfect RPS, its somewhat there.

Read my post on this thread and it may shed just a little insight onto why we think that way. Its not a perfect system right now, but it just so happen to workout in a way that we like. I'm probably not like many of them who say balance is bad, but I would say "equalness" or "perfect" balance COULD be bad.

Also, it may not be for everyone, but damn when a low tier does well in tournament and smashes a spacey that generates some mad hype and a lot of people do like the hype.

 

[Gidy]

Take a look at this thread. I can confirm that, yes, some people think balance really will ruin the fun.

A new generation of Smash is different from the old one.

 

[Quillion]

A new generation of Smash is different from the old one.

That thread's recent, though.

 

[Gidy]

That thread's recent, though.

It's in the Melee section. Melee is the oldest in the community.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Well, tell that to Melee fans. THEY SERIOUSLY SAY THIS.

Also, I think we've gotten the closest explanation to Ganondorf not using his sword. He REALLY doesn't want to alienate Melee fans to the point of keeping him unfaithful to his series origins.

Making Ganon slower than a slug with a broken leg on Jupiter was far more alienating than changing his moves ever could have been.

 

[Quillion]

Making Ganon slower than a slug with a broken leg on Jupiter was far more alienating than changing his moves ever could have been.

Okay, rant time.

Why would ANYONE like a character based solely on his effectiveness as a fighter; that is one of the most pointless things ever. By that logic Mewtwo does not deserve to be in Smash 4 by that gauge alone. Never mind his awesome design and cool-looking attacks; he's not an awesome fighter in any official Smash game, so he shouldn't be in Smash at all after his poor showing in Melee.

Stop it with this toxic mentality. More people hate Ganondorf based on his lame-looking move set instead of his awfulness as a fighter. I went out and confirmed this.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I completely agree with him. In the end, it's about sales and money. Sakurai'd be a fool not to cater to larger group of people. People are just gonna have to get used to it and take what they have.
I'm still waiting for one of those damn reporters to ask him why he cut Wolf.

 

[Gidy]

I completely agree with him. In the end, it's about sales and money. Sakurai'd be a fool not to cater to larger group of people. People are just gonna have to get used to it and take what they have.
I'm still waiting for one of those damn reporters to ask him why he cut Wolf.

What has the larger group of people said about the game? Do they want anything changed? Often I hear from them stupid things like Flare Blitz being over powered as well as Little Mac.

AGAIN, it's not like we want anything drastic changed. Diddy Kong Down Throw Up Air being nerfed does not affect casuals at all. I also don't see how catering to one side a tiny bit alienates the other side at all. We can have a competitive Smash game without hindering the casual experience. Catering to the competitive side in slightest bit won't affect the casual side at all.

Okay, rant time.

Why would ANYONE like a character based solely on his effectiveness as a fighter; that is one of the most pointless things ever. By that logic Mewtwo does not deserve to be in Smash 4 by that gauge alone. Never mind his awesome design and cool-looking attacks; he's not an awesome fighter in any official Smash game, so he shouldn't be in Smash at all after his poor showing in Melee.

Stop it with this toxic mentality. More people hate Ganondorf based on his lame-looking move set instead of his awfulness as a fighter. I went out and confirmed this.

I think both sides show why he is just bad in general. Both of you are right. Though people do like a character based on their effectiveness as a fighter. Does or ring a bell?

 

[Quillion]

I think both sides show why he is just bad in general. Both of you are right. Though people do like a character based on their effectiveness as a fighter. Does or ring a bell?

You forget .

But I stand by my opinion that the attitude that terrible characters should never come back to Smash is a terrible one and would immediately disqualify tons of characters in Smash.

 

[Gidy]

You forget .

But I stand by my opinion that the attitude that terrible characters should never come back to Smash is a terrible one and would immediately disqualify tons of characters in Smash.

Why can't they come back and be good, though? In Ganondorfs case, have accurate series representation too and not be a clone.

 

[Roukiske]

There's lots of reasons to like a character IMO. You guys named some reasons, but not all of them.

Wait where did anyone say characters don't belong in newer smash games? I'm missing that

Ah okay okay I got it, I never thought of it this way. We all say balanced or equal or viable and all that stuff. Here's my question:

Do you want every character in this game to have a 50:50 matchup with everyone? That is my definition of "equal".

Given that question, my answer is no. In my head, it sounds rather bland.

Edit: To go further, it sounds like it would be a game of skill which is cool too. Would you consider the cast diverse in this way? Yes, you can pick anyone you want, but every matchup is kind of... the same...

 

[Gidy]

Ah okay okay I got it, I never thought of it this way. We all say balanced or equal or viable and all that stuff. Here's my question:

Do you want every character in this game to have a 50:50 matchup with everyone? That is my definition of "equal".

Given that question, my answer is no. In my head, it sounds rather bland.

Edit: To go further, it sounds like it would be a game of skill which is cool too. Would you consider the cast diverse in this way? Yes, you can pick anyone you want, but every matchup is kind of... the same...

It is bland. That is Sakurai thinks we want but it's not. That's why we have certain characters to counter certain match ups and people don't play just one character.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Okay, rant time.

Why would ANYONE like a character based solely on his effectiveness as a fighter; that is one of the most pointless things ever. By that logic Mewtwo does not deserve to be in Smash 4 by that gauge alone. Never mind his awesome design and cool-looking attacks; he's not an awesome fighter in any official Smash game, so he shouldn't be in Smash at all after his poor showing in Melee.

Stop it with this toxic mentality. More people hate Ganondorf based on his lame-looking move set instead of his awfulness as a fighter. I went out and confirmed this.

I agree. I was just saying that if Sakurai didn't want to alienate Ganon's Melee playerbase, he shouldn't have slowed him down so much. It's like playing an entirely different character.

I also dislike Smash Bros. Ganondorf for not feeling anything like the Zelda character, having one ****ing move from the Zelda games, and having the most embarrassing run cycle of anyone.

 

[MarioMeteor]

What has the larger group of people said about the game? Do they want anything changed? Often I hear from them stupid things like Flare Blitz being over powered as well as Little Mac.

AGAIN, it's not like we want anything drastic changed. Diddy Kong Down Throw Up Air being nerfed does not affect casuals at all. I also don't see how catering to one side a tiny bit alienates the other side at all. We can have a competitive Smash game without hindering the casual experience. Catering to the competitive side in slightest bit won't affect the casual side at all.


I think both sides show why he is just bad in general. Both of you are right. Though people do like a character based on their effectiveness as a fighter. Does or ring a bell?

Yeah, and NOTHING the competitive crowd says is stupid either, right? Not to mention the casual crowd complains less.. And besides, Sakurai actually threw you a bone this time around. For Glory, speeding up the gameplay, Omega stages. All of this was for yall. He gives you lobster and 2 hours later you ask for steak.

I am now very confused by how biased Sakurai is towards any kind of design for competitive play. I honestly cant grasp his logic or standing on the 'leveling' for all characters.

Like i get the goal of appealing to casual players and whatnot ,but i dont think that goal has to interfere with the aspect of actual balancing gameplay of the game.... Little kids see the commercials and go "oh snap! Mario and link?! Oh what! Sonic?! YOOOOOO!" (or something like that) and ask their parents to buy it for them, Kids or casuals won't straight up wonder "hmm. i wonder how the MUs in this version will be. L-cancels plzz"

like no. Kids will buy this game anyways, balanced or not. People of the competitive SmashBoards will buy it and play for years to come, balanced and leveled...(sounded better in my head i swear...)

Sakurai has been doing good for the casuals with the franchise's charisma alone, its about time he do some good for the franchise's competitive forefront as well.

I sincerely hope you don't think kids still say "Oh snap".