Sakurai talks about Clones in Famitsu column

[LiamMail]

I really dont get why these 2 semi clones aren't in.. hey, all of their attacks are different from their counter parts,

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't really get your point about the Drug Store in Onett (that is from EarthBound not Mother 3) but I don't hate Mother 3, it is one of my favorite games of all time. Please don't jump to conclusions. But even though I love the game, I can see exactly why Nintendo doesn't want to release it internationally. For one thing, it deals with a lot of adult themes and the protagonists are children, which presents a lot of potential problems. And another thing, EarthBound was a failure in its international release and Nintendo is not looking to bring out a game with a lot of controversial themes and ideas, only for it to be a financial failure.

I mean, you have to admit. There's not even a Lucas trophy in the game. The Franklin badge is the only Mother 3 thing in the game now, and that was also in EarthBound and it is credited to EarthBound so it doesn't really count. The game was wiped clean. They may add New Pork City (god I hope not) or some Mother 3 stuff to the Wii U version but since Mother 3 was the handheld Mother game, and Sakurai has said that he wants to keep the handheld stuff on the handheld Smash and the console stuff on the Smash console, it seems pretty far-fetched to expect Mother 3 will get anything new.

Who said a thing about them getting anything new? It doesn't matter if Mother 3 was released internationally or not. It makes sense why it's not, and Lucas being gone right now is due to the series being dead. It doesn't mean he can't be returned.

And false, there's a Lucas trophy in the 3DS version. It was found a long time ago. He may be DLC, and he'll do it if he wants to. Nothing's stopping him. You are really exaggerating Lucas' chances of coming back. And you haven't played the whole game, clearly, so it's definitely obvious you don't know what was "wiped clean". Which isn't Mother 3. Just made less important.

Also, that's not what he said about Handheld/Console differences. He said they'll focus more on it in that way. There's console courses on the 3DS version, and vice versa. New Pork City may be back. He delibiteraly transferred over Brawl data, so it's pretty likely it will be. That's why WarioWare came back, because it was easy to port it. Melee was not easily portable, hence no Mewtwo. Dr. Mario is an easy clone. Pichu was the only other easy Melee vet clone possibly.

There is a Lucas trophy, and even Porky Statue (the one from Brawl), but I don't know if it's from Mother 3. I agree with Sakurai's logic to focus on the first title in the franchise. Not only Magicant is the best Earthbound stage ever in Smash Bros. (except for Flying Man ugh) it makes more sense.

...Mother 1 is the first title, not Earthbound. Just saying.

 

[TheAnvil]

Apart from the fact that Dark Pit was given priority over Alph, I'm fine with the clones.

 

[LordVacation]

I really dont get why these 2 semi clones aren't in.. hey, all of their attacks are different from their counter parts,

There likely isn't a *reason* why they were cut.
Maybe 6 or 7 clones is too much even for Sakurai; despite whether it be partial or not.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I really dont get why these 2 semi clones aren't in.. hey, all of their attacks are different from their counter parts,

All their special could be moved over to customs. So he had to still remake them from scratch like everybody but the literal clones. He may find them redundant. Not all do, but eh.

Wolf was not that important to the franchise as people think and had low popularity and priority.

Lucas was not highly popular, from a dead franchise(and Japanese only, which is pretty similar to Roy(Fire Emblem)'s case), and even his A moves were somewhat combined with Ness'. He's in any even worse position than Wolf.

 

[NoiseHERO]

SHOTS.

FIRED.

should make some more clones tho idgaf.

 

[Gidy]

"A lot of them are children"
I guess children want Ridley, Guys!

 

[LordVacation]

"A lot of them are children"
I guess children want Ridley, Guys!

I'm not sure you understood his point, lol.

 

[Hayzie]

Ganondorf >>>> Falcon, clone or not. It's Falcon who needs changing!

Toon Link is the most deserving if you consider him a clone. He's a way different and deserving character.

Also, look at the roster. It would be -3, really. The game's roster is great (where's Dixie).

I've truly thought for the longest time that if Wii U was selling well or in 1st place, Smash would have been delayed and we would have gotten a couple more characters. It's obvious they've rushed Smash 3DS and are rushing Smash Wii U. What can do you...

The only thing that matters is DLC. All is made-up for then.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Something doesn't add up to me about this article; First, its origins. Nintendoeverything is reliable(this isn't Kotaku. Have they had tons of real information even?)? Second, his thing about Dr. Mario. He previously told a fan that he doesn't make sense as a costume because he can't shoot fireballs. Why would he suddenly have him s a costume, well, ever, if that's the case? Finally, his outright flaming towards the fans. He has never once done this and has always been a lot more cooled down that.

I'm thinking this is fabricated. It's a fan theory they were all costumes. People are whining about the roster a lot. It was not hard to fake, and say all this information. I'd like if one of our members could find the Famitsu article(like Venus) and properly translate it. I wouldn't be surprised if they faked the translation as a take that towards speculation and such. If not outright lied about Dr. Mario's costume status. He has never proved to a costume in any fashion except quite literally during the TV show when the character was created. Then he became a separate genre character. Miyamoto even supports this; Keep in mind that it's outright said that Dr. Mario is a fake in some of the boxes and promotional material. However, what Miyamoto said is he wouldn't take the role of a doctor. Being a fake doctor still means you're taking the role. So he pretty clearly doesn't support him as a costume. Sakurai has never proven to either, notably.

So yeah, it doesn't add up to me at all. Is it possible? Yeah, of course. But it feels a lot less likely than it should be.

 

[Dr. Giygas]

On the topic of Lucas specifically, from what I understand (Only through second-hand information as I do not speak Japanese or visit Japanese messageboards) the Mother series is actually not that big in Japan and generally better received overseas. This just according to EarthboundCentral. Despite being a big fan myself I can see why they don't feel the need for two reps from Mother.

 

[LordVacation]

Ganondorf >>>> Falcon, clone or not. It's Falcon who needs changing!

I sincerely hope this is trolling.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I sincerely hope this is trolling.

You do realize that Mario was changed more than the Doc, right? I mean, it's a silly joke by him possibly, but it has happened before. Just saying.

 

[Hayzie]

I sincerely hope this is trolling.

I don't. "NyrarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAGGGHHH" > "Falcown Pawnch!"

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm just giving an example. Look at how many people are upset that clones made it in, but Ridley Krool didn't. People would be less upset if the clones were just alts instead of their own playable characters. That way the exclusion of their main or most wanted wouldn't be as painful.

l suppose all you and I can do is hope for characters like Wolf, Lucas and Mewtwo as DLC.*shrugs*

 

[Rizen]

Lol, Sakurai's tl;dr is "clones are an extra so stop *****ing about them internet!"

 

[LordVacation]

You do realize that Mario was changed more than the Doc, right? I mean, it's a silly joke by him possibly, but it has happened before. Just saying.

You're telling me the star of Nintendo was changed more in a game where Doc didn't even take place?
Wow.. stunning research you must've done.

But seriously what I was referring to was why would Falcon's move-set be changed when it fits him perfectly, whilst a character who literally has no relation in any form other than being a clone; get stuck with old moves...?

 

[the8thark]

This article was already posted here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/saku...acters-are-chosen.372287/page-4#post-17748167
But that topic was locked. This topic is just a continuation of that locked topic.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think the thing that should be asked was why he would priorities developing three different unique moveset for the Miis when one could have worked perfectly fine. Complain or praise Dark Pit, Lucina and the Doctor as much as you want, but unlike the different types of Mii Fighters, the time spend on any of these characters individually could not be used to bring back any cut veterans or any unique newcomers. After all, 6 Melee-style clones equals 1 unique character. We don't even have that many plain clones i this game.

This was already said here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/saku...acters-are-chosen.372287/page-4#post-17748167
But that topic was locked.

It ended up being locked due to things getting heated, which was a turn of events that made sense, considering the context.

 

[FalKoopa]

This article was already posted here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/saku...acters-are-chosen.372287/page-4#post-17748167
But that topic was locked. This topic is just a continuation of that locked topic.

It's not that we don't want users to talk about this; discussion is encouraged. Spouting salt like sea water is not, however.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's not that we don't want users to talk about this; discussion is encouraged. Spouting salt like sea water is not, however.

Sea Bass approves of this message.

...We need a Sea Bass smiley. >_>

 

[PeterJude]

Perhaps I'm just a little salty. Though could have been added. Its that they aren't good enough to justify the losses. Even some of the original newcomers like are a bit questionable too. Maybe it was just the choice of clones. I remeber people asking for Black Shadow to be a clone of Ganondorf. Lets say instead of the clones were Black Shadow, Daisy, or even. would have been welcomed back and Daisy and Black Shadow would truly be playable in smash. isn't as good a choice because it provides more fuel for the Sakurai bias fire. Hopefully DLC can save the day.

Roy wasn't a clone. He wasn't a simple variation build from an alt.

Dark Pit, Dr Mario and Lucina are great choices to be honest. You'll also note that they're built from alts of the major character in their series (i.e. Pit, Mario and Marth).

Apart from the fact that Dark Pit was given priority over Alph, I'm fine with the clones.

To be honest I don't think it had anything to do with priority. More a case that they didn't think Dark Pit would work as well as an alt. What would you have had Alph do differently?

There likely isn't a *reason* why they were cut.
Maybe 6 or 7 clones is too much even for Sakurai; despite whether it be partial or not.

They were probably cut because the pseudo-clones weren't high priority (i.e. Roy in Melee, Wolf and Lucas in Brawl) and they prioritised the newcomers.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

As expected and it makes sense. It was also funny seeing Sakurai fire a couple of shots at the end; as part of the Smash fanbase I have to agree that unfortunately for a lot of people if you give them 20 newcomers and then add at least one clone they will complain and crucify it as if it was the the anti-christ and cry that the roster has been "ruined.

I strolled a bit on GameFaqs and it has turned into pandemonium, as predicted. I'm glad Smash Boards is a much friendlier place.

@[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]
Eh, it's kind of hypocritical to decry those 3 clones while saying that other 3 clones would have been better choices. I don't even understand your beef with Lucina, yet at the same time you are asking for Roy? What? He is not really that much different.

 

[DraginHikari]

As expected and it makes sense. It was also funny seeing Sakurai fire a couple of shots at the end; as part of the Smash fanbase I have to agree that unfortunately for a lot of people if you give them 20 newcomers and then add at least one clone they will complain and crucify it as if it was the the anti-christ and cry that the roster has been "ruined.

I strolled a bit on GameFaqs and it has turned into pandemonium, as predicted. I'm glad Smash Boards is a much friendlier place.

@[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]
Eh, it's kind of hypocritical to decry those 3 clones while saying that other 3 clones would have been better choices. I don't even understand your beef with Lucina, yet at the same time you are asking for Roy? What? He is not really that much different.

Not just the Smash Brothers community really, the gaming community on the internet in general has a lot of imbalance in regards to what it tends to perceive a problem as much larger then it actually is.

 

[MewtwoX825]

Which is a clone of Zelda's and Sheik's final smash anyway.
Seriously I like Sakurai but when he tries to justify his reasons he comes out as completely moronic to say the least.
We didn't make cutscenes because Youtube!
Ice Climbers aren't playable on WiiU because 3DS!
Dr. Mario is not a skin because he jumps lower! Completely different character!
There is no Mewtwo because it's hard to port things from Melee! But characters are made completely FROM SCRATCH by the way!

Agree. I think we need someone else to develop the next game if he keeps using bs reasons like this. And to those who say "well this is Sakurai's game!" We'll so was Kirby. Hell it pretty much shows that Sakurai is tired of making these games anyway so he should just go back to reviving dead franchise then.

And Dark Pit wouldn't be so bad if he actually had an original design rather than being a lazy palette swap. At least Capcom put effort in giving Cammy a mask.

 

[PeterJude]

Agree. I think we need someone else to develop the next game if he keeps using bs reasons like this. And to those who say "well this is Sakurai's game!" We'll so was Kirby. Hell it pretty much shows that Sakurai is tired of making these games anyway so he should just go back to reviving dead franchise then.

I do genuinely fear the first Smash Bros not made by Sakurai.

 

[Naoshi]

Sakurai should stop making Smash because he didn't satisfy a group of fans? Well, okay. Whatever you guys say.

Which is a clone of Zelda's and Sheik's final smash anyway.
Seriously I like Sakurai but when he tries to justify his reasons he comes out as completely moronic to say the least.
We didn't make cutscenes because Youtube!
Fair enough, that excuse made really no sense. But considering the budget of SSE, I'm actually glad we didn't get another mode like it. Too much resources wasted on such an overly ambitious mode...

Ice Climbers aren't playable on WiiU because 3DS!
This is perfectly excusable, especially if they want to keep the roster the exact same, whether we like it or not.

Dr. Mario is not a skin because he jumps lower! Completely different character!

Wha? There are more differences to Dr. Mario and just that. No where did he say he;s a "completely different character", he said that Dr. Mario wouldn't work as an alt because of some of the differences he has. You can't make an alt with changes beyond the sfx and models.


There is no Mewtwo because it's hard to port things from Melee! But characters are made completely FROM SCRATCH by the way!
He didn't say this is why Mewtwo isn't in SSB4. He was merely explaining why he couldn't just port them from Melee. As in, non-clone Melee-only characters would've probably taken 3/4 of as much work as newcomers.

Responses in the bolded.

 

[Terotrous]

Honestly, they really should have just stayed as colour variations.

 

[LancerStaff]

Honestly, they really should have just stayed as colour variations.

Us DP, Dr. Mario, and Lucina fans would be sooooo happy.

 

[TheAnvil]

Apart from the fact that Dark Pit was given priority over Alph, I'm fine with the clones.

Roy wasn't a clone. He wasn't a simple variation build from an alt.

Dark Pit, Dr Mario and Lucina are great choices to be honest. You'll also note that they're built from alts of the major character in their series (i.e. Pit, Mario and Marth).



To be honest I don't think it had anything to do with priority. More a case that they didn't think Dark Pit would work as well as an alt. What would you have had Alph do differently?



They were probably cut because the pseudo-clones weren't high priority (i.e. Roy in Melee, Wolf and Lucas in Brawl) and they prioritised the newcomers.

Rock Pikmin.

 

[Terotrous]

Us DP, Dr. Mario, and Lucina fans would be sooooo happy.

I'm pretty sure if Lucina had been revealed as an alternate skin for Marth, Lucina fans still would have been happy.

As far Dark Pit and Dr Mario, they could have just made their unique moves (Electrodash Arm and Dr. Tornado) into custom moves for Mario and Pit. The only thing you'd lose is the Dark Pit Staff FS, and no one plays with FSes on anyway.

 

[espio87]

Not just the Smash Brothers community really, the gaming community on the internet in general has a lot of imbalance in regards to what it tends to perceive a problem as much larger then it actually is.

Agreed, yelling the loudest doesn't make you the majority.
So far I love Dr. Mario and Lucina. I'm still a bit indifferent towards Dark Pit because I can't find what makes him different from Pit but I will find it. However I hope future patching makes him more unique.

 

[TimeSmash]

Wow, some sass from Sakurai. That's a little rare. Although I suppose I'd get tired of incessant ******** about the game I just put years into.

Although, I'm an old Dr. Mario fan and still view them as the same person haha

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm pretty sure if Lucina had been revealed as an alternate skin for Marth, Lucina fans still would have been happy.

As far Dark Pit and Dr Mario, they could have just made their unique moves (Electrodash Arm and Dr. Tornado) into custom moves for Mario and Pit. The only thing you'd lose is the Dark Pit Staff FS, and no one plays with FSes on anyway.

Not only would we lose some of Pit's customs, we'd lose most of DPs.

Lol, nobody plays with FSes? Here, maybe.

Regardless, the the fans the clones have outnumber the haters. Since more people are happy with the roster this way, it was a good decision.

 

[Terotrous]

Not only would we lose some of Pit's customs, we'd lose most of DPs.

Do you mean DM? Dark Pit and Pit have the same customs. Pit would only have to lose one custom to get Dark Pit's Electroshock arm, not a big loss.

Mario would have to lose some Fludd variant for Mario Tornado, but honestly, I'm sure everyone would be happy about that change.

Lol, nobody plays with FSes? Here, maybe.

I've found that even most casual players turn them off. Besides, it's not like the Dark Pit staff is a great FS anyway, it's basically just a lazy Light Arrow reskin.

Regardless, the the fans the clones have outnumber the haters. Since more people are happy with the roster this way, it was a good decision.

They do? I've seen way more Dark Pit haters than fans.

 

[FalKoopa]

They do? I've seen way more Dark Pit haters than fans.

That applies only to Dark Pit. Doc and Lucina have plenty of fans.

Doesn't help that Dark Pit is completely identical to Pit except for his arrows, Electroshock Arm and Final Smash. Poor guy.

 

[PeterJude]

Apart from the fact that Dark Pit was given priority over Alph, I'm fine with the clones.


Rock Pikmin.

With the way the Pikmin work it could have taken some serious rebalancing. Not exactly the most major thing either.

They do? I've seen way more Dark Pit haters than fans.

People love a bandwagon. To be honest it seems mostly down to people not even realising who Dark Pit is, and the fact that the Japanese name is "Black Pit". It made him sound like a recolour given a full character in the game.

I haven't really understood much of the rage considering that Dark Pit would have made a solid character even not as a clone. But I guess many couldn't get past the name. I doubt anyone would care if he was called Tip or George or something.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I'm pretty sure if Lucina had been revealed as an alternate skin for Marth, Lucina fans still would have been happy.

As far Dark Pit and Dr Mario, they could have just made their unique moves (Electrodash Arm and Dr. Tornado) into custom moves for Mario and Pit. The only thing you'd lose is the Dark Pit Staff FS, and no one plays with FSes on anyway.

Nothing is lost either by having them be their own characters. Having them as alts instead of their own characters does not translate in any way into gain for the detractors of the clones.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Custom moves do not work that way. Only Palutena and Mii Fighters were given the privilage of unique customs.

There would be no Tornado. It'd be 3 FLUDD's, and he'd have to remodel them all to work the same unique way, same with Megavitamins. He saved more time making him a clone than a costume, ironically so. It's way easier to work with a clone if they have extremely difference from their parent character. Which Dr. Mario does. Only the other two would've been smart as a costume. Dr. Mario absolutely never going to be a costume in the long run. It was obvious to me if he returned, it'd be a clone.

 

[PeterJude]

I'm pretty sure if Lucina had been revealed as an alternate skin for Marth, Lucina fans still would have been happy.

As far Dark Pit and Dr Mario, they could have just made their unique moves (Electrodash Arm and Dr. Tornado) into custom moves for Mario and Pit. The only thing you'd lose is the Dark Pit Staff FS, and no one plays with FSes on anyway.

We would have lost options for the custom moves and the characters. Literally nothing was lost by making them full characters, why does it upset you so?