Sakurai made Wolf bad D=

[KRDsonic]

This is partially true, due to Wolf's fall rate he is on the worse end of the ground grab release stuff. The only people worse off than him are the Mother characters, and of course there are a few others characters that go "even" with him.

Are you sure? We have shine... something that a lot of other characters don't have that lets us escape a few things that characters such as Ganon and Falcon wouldn't be able to do anything about.

 

[tekkie]

bamping this thread because the OP is good but needs to be better and this could end up being the only useful thread on the wofl boards if we keep it going

 

[Ishiey]

Wow, you found it O.o Good work!

Idk if this is in the directory or not, but it really should be, so I'll get that fixed up. Let's keep building data here, and even if Arc doesn't update the OP I can put stuff in there

 

[rvkevin]

"The main point of this thread is to make a list so that people know what to avoid, and test all of these to be sure that they are in fact inescapable. If we manage to figure out how to get out from a few of these..."

You say to include things that are inescapable, but then you have the Gonzo combo under Kirby which can be escaped. So are we to suggest common chains/setups and how to get out of or avoid them?

If Kirby grabs you at low percents, DI the Uair up and away and you should be out of range for a re-grab or a reverse Utilt. If Wario Nairs you, any followup will be thwarted by AAA. Wario can followup Fairs with an Uair, maybe Dair>Dair>Uair at low percents (It works on the sandbag). See for Diddy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzctuPygaD4, basically if any of this happens to you, you made a mistake and all of it can be avoided by camping. For Falco's chain grab, QCDI towards the stage. For DDD, Utilt at low percents leads to grab. GnW has Utilt>Utilt>UpB at near zero, but again this shouldn't really be happening, Fishbowl>UpB is much more likely. I wouldn't pass on Jiggly so quickly, she could have something like Pound>Nair>Grab, but since low tiers get destroyed by Wolf, they may as well not matter.

Not like Wolf has to worry about any of this stuff, all of it can be avoided by camping. The only really bad thing is getting grabbed out of your second jump on the ledge.

 

[tekkie]

"The main point of this thread is to make a list so that people know what to avoid, and test all of these to be sure that they are in fact inescapable. If we manage to figure out how to get out from a few of these..."

You say to include things that are inescapable, but then you have the Gonzo combo under Kirby which can be escaped. So are we to suggest common chains/setups and how to get out of or avoid them?

If Kirby grabs you at low percents, DI the Uair up and away and you should be out of range for a re-grab or a reverse Utilt. If Wario Nairs you, any followup will be thwarted by AAA. Wario can followup Fairs with an Uair, maybe Dair>Dair>Uair at low percents (It works on the sandbag). See for Diddy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzctuPygaD4, basically if any of this happens to you, you made a mistake and all of it can be avoided by camping. For Falco's chain grab, QCDI towards the stage. For DDD, Utilt at low percents leads to grab. GnW has Utilt>Utilt>UpB at near zero, but again this shouldn't really be happening, Fishbowl>UpB is much more likely. I wouldn't pass on Jiggly so quickly, she could have something like Pound>Nair>Grab, but since low tiers get destroyed by Wolf, they may as well not matter.

Not like Wolf has to worry about any of this stuff, all of it can be avoided by camping. The only really bad thing is getting grabbed out of your second jump on the ledge.

this is all awesome and all but 1) just saying "camp and youll be fine" isnt the point since this is all worst case scenario and we should find something to do, 2) low tiers still matter, and 3) we should test everything as much as possible.

what would be the best way to test this stuff?

 

[Ishiey]

Test with two people, one that has the "techskill" necessary to pull off a lot of these things consistently, and another that can mash jab or shield or shine quickly :3

 

[tekkie]

Test with two people, one that has the "techskill" necessary to pull off a lot of these things consistently, and another that can mash jab or shield or shine quickly :3

what if i have no friends

 

[ArcPoint]

"The main point of this thread is to make a list so that people know what to avoid, and test all of these to be sure that they are in fact inescapable. If we manage to figure out how to get out from a few of these..."

You say to include things that are inescapable, but then you have the Gonzo combo under Kirby which can be escaped. So are we to suggest common chains/setups and how to get out of or avoid them?

If Kirby grabs you at low percents, DI the Uair up and away and you should be out of range for a re-grab or a reverse Utilt. If Wario Nairs you, any followup will be thwarted by AAA. Wario can followup Fairs with an Uair, maybe Dair>Dair>Uair at low percents (It works on the sandbag). See for Diddy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzctuPygaD4, basically if any of this happens to you, you made a mistake and all of it can be avoided by camping. For Falco's chain grab, QCDI towards the stage. For DDD, Utilt at low percents leads to grab. GnW has Utilt>Utilt>UpB at near zero, but again this shouldn't really be happening, Fishbowl>UpB is much more likely. I wouldn't pass on Jiggly so quickly, she could have something like Pound>Nair>Grab, but since low tiers get destroyed by Wolf, they may as well not matter.

Not like Wolf has to worry about any of this stuff, all of it can be avoided by camping. The only really bad thing is getting grabbed out of your second jump on the ledge.

When I made the OP I was just listing random crap off the top of my head, essentially. So yeah, the OP is more than likely wrong in some areas. Anyways, I was thinking we have 2 sections, one section for the truly inescapable combos, and then another for the escapable combos. We would obviously tell how to get out of the chain, like with Kirby's Gonzo combo, I've been QCDIing the Uair and usually you get out a lot sooner than 50%. Any other ways to get out of it? Does just regular DIing the uair actually get out of it or no?

Just for clarification, anything on the OP could be totally and absolutely wrong, so yeah, correct me at will if there's something incorrect, and if possible test the crap so that we have confirmation.

Uhm yeah...I'mma go re-organize the OP, brb.

Edit: OP re-organized, woooo. Go check it out. Also, just put the statement in the OP that I don't really care about 2 hit chains. Thoughts on that?

 

[A2ZOMG]

ROB does in fact have a U-tilt juggle on Wolf as I recall. I can remember the side hitboxes chaining into each other repeatedly for some pretty nice damage.

 

[ArcPoint]

Do you know if it's SDI/QCDI/Regular DI able?

 

[Meru.]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258043

Peach's Uair string deals the most damage vs Wolf. It's not (S)DI'able, but you should still (S)DI to make it more difficult for Peach to Uair you.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

As if ROB would EVER hit Wolf with utilt in the first place

 

[A2ZOMG]

Do you know if it's SDI/QCDI/Regular DI able?

Regular DI isn't enough to escape it at the very least.

 

[Ishiey]

what if i have no friends

Do what I do and try to pressure other people into testing stuff :3

As for the new OP, I do think that we should put recovery shenanigans in as well... Fox can shine out of our upB, it's reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally not cool at all, and definitely worse than his utilt (although just like his utilt can be avoided by camping, getting shined out of upB requires you to mess up your DI and get sent at an angle where you'd have to upB and whatnot).

Alphabetical order would be better for organization imo... but that's more of a personal preference, anything can be found by using ctr+f anyways, so yeah lol. Two-hit combos, yeah I agree that they have no place in this thread... the only ones that might be worth considering are Luigi's jab followups so that people know we can shield through jab > upB, or stuff like Wario's nair or D3's utilt that can lead into a cg.

I guess I wouldn't organize by "guaranteed" and escapable combos first, but by character. That way, when you're trying to learn what to watch out for against Kirby for example, you'll see that he has an inescapable combo off of his dthrow at low %s but an escapable (and arguably more rewarding) combo off of his fthrow all at the same place. I guess, idk =P


As for combos themselves, I heard the same thing about the Wario cg but idk what it is TL has a string of bairs, and Kirby has dthrow > utilt(s) > regrab (although the utilts leave room to SDI, he can still follow you without much difficulty). Lucario's FP cg doesn't work, but I'm not sure what breaks it.

 

[ArcPoint]

As for combos themselves, I heard the same thing about the Wario cg but idk what it is TL has a string of bairs, and Kirby has dthrow > utilt(s) > regrab (although the utilts leave room to SDI, he can still follow you without much difficulty). Lucario's FP cg doesn't work, but I'm not sure what breaks it.

I kind of agree on the organization, but for the time being I will rely on people's intelligence, eyes, and the control F function. It makes it easier on me for the time being to have all the characters in certain sections.

And adding the TL bair chains to unconformed, I'll keep Lucario's in the unconformed, and I'll add the Kirby Dthrow stuff. I'm pretty sure you can avoid re-grab after a utilt. We'll have to test all of Kirby's dthrow stuff. And by we I mean you guys.

Edit: Alphabetized within the sections for mah home boi Ishiey <3

 

[Ishiey]

:3

But yeah lol everything is fine for now. Color coding will be helpful later too, especially if you group solely by characters (ex. bold = heavy damage, color1 = inescapable, color2 = escapable). Also:

We'll have to test all of Kirby's dthrow stuff. And by we I mean you guys.

You have learned well oolmonke

 

[ArcPoint]

Colors? Sounds horridly girly, no offense xD

And yeah, I have learned well from the Communist Overlord of the Wolf boards.

 

[Ishiey]

D: Idk, making guaranteed combos red doesn't seem to be all that girly lol, but your call xD There are other ways around it too, like italics or whatever, just something to make it easy to tell the difference between what is guaranteed and what isn't.

:3

 

[Seagull Joe]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258043

Peach's Uair string deals the most damage vs Wolf. It's not (S)DI'able, but you should still (S)DI to make it more difficult for Peach to Uair you.

This will never happen in match. I versed the guy (excel zero) who invented this **** at pound and he couldn't do this to me. I won the set. LOL.

 

[ArcPoint]

This will never happen in match. I versed the guy (excel zero) who invented this **** at pound and he couldn't do this to me. I won the set. LOL.

Regardless of whether or not it will actually happen, if the first Uair hits, the others are guaranteed, right? We should figure out how to escape it soonest.

 

[Captain Sa10]

Regardless of whether or not it will actually happen, if the first Uair hits, the others are guaranteed, right? We should figure out how to escape it soonest.

You should try and break out of that shiggiddy as soon as possible. After that first hit, you better work to hell and back to make sure several others dont follow soon afterwards, otherwise, you'll be in a world of pain once it connects.

 

[-Mars-]

If Sheik catches you at 30%, you're pretty much dead. SDI TOWARDS her and try to get out that way but i can just turn around and continue ftilting so it's not that big of a deal.

 

[Ishiey]

Holy crap the Captain is back :O

I know that at very early %s, SDIing down and shielding stops Fox's utilts. Can we do something like that for anything else?

 

[Captain Sa10]

Holy crap the Captain is back :O

I know that at very early %s, SDIing down and shielding stops Fox's utilts. Can we do something like that for anything else?

Lol, I know right? College can be painful at times when you can't do alot things (such as playing brawl or getting on smashboards).

shiek will definitely F-tilt us to hell and back. We're just too easy to be juggled. Peach is troublesome as well, and I think Fox's utilt is probably the easy to get out of by SDIing and Shielding. Not sure if falco's utilt has decent juggling properties on wolf, but I'd say SDIing out of it would be the best option if he could.

 

[AtotheZ]

Just to confirm you can break out of lucario's force palm chain at any percent, just button mash+move the control stick rapidly in a circle and it should do the trick

 

[Captain Sa10]

Just to confirm you can break out of lucario's force palm chain at any percent, just button mash+move the control stick rapidly in a circle and it should do the trick

This is true. Done it several times before. Usually just slide my fingers across buttons, while doing the circle motion and shiggiddy with the control stick, and C stick.

 

[Ishiey]

Lol, I know right? College can be painful at times when you can't do alot things (such as playing brawl or getting on smashboards).

I can only imagine x_x high school is being a big enough pain as it is lol, idk what I'll be able to do in college

So just to make sure, we get out of FP by mashing before the throw, not by sidestepping/shining the grab itself? Does FP take longer to break out of when we have more %?

 

[ArcPoint]

Eh, I'd think mashing out at earlier percents would be easier, but I can't be sure.

Also, welcome back Sa10, you should come on more often =D

 

[Karcist]

For the Olimar, U throw to u smash u air can be avoided with a simple nair right after the u throw.

 

[tekkie]

For the Olimar, U throw to u smash u air can be avoided with a simple nair right after the u throw.

does nair beat usmash?

 

[Karcist]

does nair beat usmash?

I'm fairly certain

 

[tekkie]

I'm fairly certain

just tested this out and it pretty much does

mind blown

 

[Ishiey]

just tested this out and it pretty much does

mind blown

Nair is such a ridiculous move. Clanks w/ MK's glide attack, beats Snake's mortar and Olimar's pikmin, combos, gimps, wtf.

Thanks Karcist

 

[tekkie]

beats Snake's mortar

wait wat

guess what i'm adding to my WOFL USEFUL THREAD?

 

[Ishiey]

I knew nair was awesome ever since I saw nair > utilt register as a combo in training. This move will never get old :3

We should probably make a new thread just for nair, because it's just that ridiculous (and having more threads makes us look cool)

 

[ArcPoint]

Hmmm...a nair thread...that'd be interesting.

Anyway, so we can be sure that nair beats out Oli's Usmash?

 

[tekkie]

Hmmm...a nair thread...that'd be interesting.

Anyway, so we can be sure that nair beats out Oli's Usmash?

pretty sure purple beats out weak hits but also pretty sure strong hit beats purple.

basically, pretty sure

 

[Karcist]

Hmmm...a nair thread...that'd be interesting.

Anyway, so we can be sure that nair beats out Oli's Usmash?

Yupp, one of the many reasons I think Wolf is a great counter pick against Olimar. EVERYTHING wolf has out prioritizes Olimar. Wolf's f smash beats Olimar's pivot grab (kills the pikmin before it can grab you then hits Oli). Wolf out camps Olimar and can reflect pikmin with shine. Wolf doesn't get combo'ed because of nair and doesn't get gimped easily by Oli. Wolf's d smash sweet spot sends Olimar on a down wards angled horizontal angle which can kill Olimar at very low percents due to Oli's horrendous recovery. I honestly have no idea why people say the matchup is 50-50 because Olimar has nothing on Wolf.

 

[ArcPoint]

Okay, OP updated. Can anyone test to see if there are any other chains that Oli has on Wolf that don't involved upsmash?

 

[Seagull Joe]

The gonzo combo doesn't even work after fthrow>uair at 0 if you just jab repeatedly.