Sakurai made Wolf bad D=

[ArcPoint]

Thanks to his combo-ability and chaingrab-ability

HOWEVER. Not all of his matchups have something like this.

With this thread, I want to make a list of every character, and then what stupid thing each character has on Wolf that they can abuse, in terms of inescapable combos. Not anything relating to Wolf's bad recovery or what have you.

The main point of this thread is to make a list so that people know what to avoid, and test all of these to be sure that they are in fact inescapable, and show people how to escape some of the chains that happen frequently.

I'll try and do my best from memory, the ordering is the tier list 3.0 in case anyone actually cares, and I can obviously be very wrong about some of these =)

Edit: This just in, ArcPoint says the ordering of characters can go shove it, reorganization time =D

Also, in this thread I use the term "chain" as being a string of moves (3 and above, combos of two really aren't of interest to me, unless you guys really care, in which case I'll put them in) that may or may not be escapable.

Criteria for bolded: Something that does at least 50%

Here are the sections as they stand:
1 - 99.9 % confirmed inescapable chains
2 - Unconfirmed inescapable chains
3 - No known chains
4 - Confirmed escapable chains

---------
99.9% Confirmed Inescapable Chains.

I say 99.9% because there's always the off chance that someone discovers something. I'm not holding my breath.

Falco - Chaingrab lol. Spike to death isn't guaranteed, but I'm pretty sure the chaingrab is guaranteed.

King DDD - Lol. Chaingrab across stage + ledge infinite.

ICs - 0-death on everyone in the cast. Popo Dthrows us until like 40 or 50 just by himself.

Marth - Fthrow -> Fthrow -> tippered Fsmash or tippered Dair.

Pikachu - 0-120 chaingrab.

Pit - Fthrow chains.

Wario - Chaingrab from 60-150 or something. But I heard the Japanese figured out how to get out if you're below 100. (Confirm, anyone?)

-------------

Unconfirmed or Questionable Inescapable Chains.


These are just chains that are questionable or have unconfirmed elements. I'm interested to see the results of all this.

Diddy Kong - Utilt combos I think, and maybe Dtilt stuff. [SDI/QCDI confirmation needed]

DK - A few utilts. [SDI/QCDI confirmation needed]

Fox - Utilt chains and then a Usmash [Again, SDI/QCDI possibility to get out before a fair amount of percentage]

Kirby - GONZO COMBO. 0 to like, 50 or 60 I think. There is also a few chains starting from Dthrow, but beats me what they are.[I'm 99% sure you can QCDI out of the Gonzo combo, would anyone like to confirm when it is first possible to escape?]

Link - Definitely a few utilts. [SDI/QCDI confirmation needed]

Lucas - Utilt? [SDI/QCDI confirmation needed]

Luigi - Utilts to Usmash [SDI/QCDI confirmation needed]

Mario - Definitely a few utilts. [SDI/QCDI confirmation needed]

Ness - A few utilts I think. [SDI/QCDI confirmation needed]

Olimar - Whatever chain Olimar has that doesn't involve Usmash, apparently Wolf can Nair out out of Usmash, which is cool beans =)

Peach - Dair combos with Uair and Nair (Can any peach mains tell me the actual combo? Or the variations depending on DI. Also a Dthrow CG until...something (?) Uair chain confirmed, it can do a fair amount of percentage. I'd like to know when we can get out of the Uair string...
[Dair combos MIGHT be SDI/QCDI-able, and I'd like to be sure on that Dthrow chaingrab.]

PT - Squirtle has Utilt gimmicks. [SDI/QCDI confirmation needed]

ROB - A few utilts perhaps. [SDI/QCDI confirmation needed]

Shiek - X_X Ftilt [SDI/QCDI possibility? This might be SDIable, but I think the opponent can read it well enough, not sure]

Sonic - Dtilt kinda [SDI/QCDI confirmation needed]

Toon Link - Idk, a Utilt here or there. And some bair chains. [SDI/QCDI confirmation needed]

ZSS - I know she has a few Fthrow chains. And does her Dsmash chain work? Or is that escapable? [Dsmash chain SDI/QCDI-able? Or you might even be able to DI it, Idk, confirmation please.]

-----------

No Known Chains.

This means that there aren't any chains that I can think of right now, I could be totally wrong.

Bowser - Nothing that I'm aware of...

Captain Falcon - Eh, nope. Knee to Falcon Punch maybe.

Ganondorf - Nada.

Ike - Nothing that I know of.

Jigglypuff - Nope.

Metaknight - No combos that I'm aware of, except for maybe Uairs at low percent?

Samus - None known.

Snake - Nada

Wolf - Gah I hope not...

Yoshi - Idk.

Zelda - No chains

------------

Confirmed Escapable Chains.


Lucario - Force Palm chain, you can escape by mashing out of the grab, so you need to be sliding fingers, rotating the control stick, et cetera.

------------

Conclusion: Get ***** Wolf.

Also in case I haven't made this clear, I could be wrong on any of these, and anyone who has confirmation or knowledge of a possible mishap on this post, please, voice it.

 

[AtotheZ]

Bowser has grab release shenanigans I believe and metaknight has glide attack combos into nair and ftilt.

 

[Ishiey]

I was thinking of making something like this, good job

I don't have any idea what Charizard cg you're talking about, pretty sure it doesn't exist. Also, Sonic has some gay dtilt stuff iirc. You can SDI the Gonzo combo to get out before the second grab I think, so Kirbys will probably dthrow > utilt you instead.

I'll post with more stuff another time, but yeah, good stuff.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Yeah, uh, lets not have "gay" used as a derogatory term at all. And especially not in the thread title.

 

[ArcPoint]

Bowser has grab release shenanigans I believe and metaknight has glide attack combos into nair and ftilt.

Grab release isn't something that's caused by Wolf's chaingrabability though I don't think. And what does MK have? o.O

Edit:

Yeah, uh, lets not have "gay" used as a derogatory term at all. And especially not in the thread title.

Fair enough, sorry for not being PC. =)

 

[AtotheZ]

I'm pretty sure if MK hits with glide attack he can nair and fastfall it with it hitting twice and follow up with ftilt for a true combo.

so Glide attack>nair>ftilt.

Also fthrow to shuttle loop, maybe.

 

[ArcPoint]

I'm pretty sure if MK hits with glide attack he can nair and fastfall it with it hitting twice and follow up with ftilt for a true combo.

so Glide attack>nair>ftilt.

Also fthrow to shuttle loop, maybe.

Glide attack...land and then Nair?

And I don't think Fthrow to shuttle loop is, gonna go test both of those...

Edit: Tested both of those, and Both of those you can react before MK does, and you can DI well out of MK's range.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Hm...

I'm not going to say anything now, but all of this should be properly tested before we go ahead and set it in stone. I'm pretty sure SDI and bull**** shines can work through a couple "combo"s in there. Especially DDD's CG, it's obviously escapable.

(yeah, I joke, but only the last line isn't to be taken seriously)

 

[JCav]

Craptain Falcon - Knee to Falcon Punch

i vouch for this

 

[ArcPoint]

Hm...

I'm not going to say anything now, but all of this should be properly tested before we go ahead and set it in stone. I'm pretty sure SDI and bull**** shines can work through a couple "combo"s in there. Especially DDD's CG, it's obviously escapable.

(yeah, I joke, but only the last line isn't to be taken seriously)

'Course, none of this is set in stone yet.

And if we figure out how to figure out a few ways to get out of some of these combos...oh darn.

 

[rvkevin]

You should have a general area, where every character can do the same thing...like getting grab released off the edge, which is something I've been doing lately...

And you should include followups that are common but avoidable via DI so people can watch out for them so they don't get caught in them.

 

[ArcPoint]

Well, keep in mind getting grab released from the ledge isn't a combo due to his weight, it just sucks cuz of his recovery.

I'm looking for chains of moves that happen because of his weight and fastfalling, not necessarily due to recovery.

If Wolf had a better recovery in terms of distance, he could get away from that grab release thing. If he had a better recovery he still couldn't get out of DDD's chaingrab.

And can you give an example of one? Cuz I want this to be more focused on what chains each character has on Wolf and how to possibly shorten them.

 

[rvkevin]

I was referring to forcing Wolf to Up B on stage for a free Fair/Uair...so if you're in kill range, shielding near the edge may not be the best option...If he had a better recovery, he could get out of getting hit by the Fair/Uair...but he has the option of either recovering or falling to his death...so he is forced to take the hit.

 

[ArcPoint]

I was referring to forcing Wolf to Up B on stage for a free Fair/Uair...so if you're in kill range, shielding near the edge may not be the best option...If he had a better recovery, he could get out of getting hit by the Fair/Uair...but he has the option of either recovering or falling to his death...so he is forced to take the hit.

That's not a result of his chain-ability, that's due to his crap recovery. But it is true and Wolf gets ***** by that. This oughta be a different thread sometime.

 

[Ishiey]

Also, TL has a massive bair wall of death on us, pretty sure you can't get out of it.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Also, TL has a massive bair wall of death on us, pretty sure you can't get out of it.

Yeah, I would know a thing or two about that. >_>

Radori plays me a lot, and he usually gets it 60-75. Crazy stuff. Not sure if I can SDI out.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Yeah, I would know a thing or two about that. >_>

Radori plays me a lot, and he usually gets it 60-75. Crazy stuff. Not sure if I can SDI out.

I highly disagree. Tl cannot bair wall more then 2-3 times if you DI properly.

And Olimar has no chaingrab on wolf. He can regrab once after a dthrow at 0 percent. Then running usmash or fair. Nothing else really.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I highly disagree. Tl cannot bair wall more then 2-3 times if you DI properly.

And Olimar has no chaingrab on wolf. He can regrab once after a dthrow at 0 percent. Then running usmash or fair. Nothing else really.

You can't disagree with a half-hearted statement. Like I said, I wasn't sure if you could SDI out, thanks for answering my question.

As for Olimar, I had thought PS said three times in a row, but SDI stops following grabs. As for the follow ups, yeah...he can do those. >.>

 

[Seagull Joe]

You can't disagree with a half-hearted statement. Like I said, I wasn't sure if you could SDI out, thanks for answering my question.

As for Olimar, I had thought PS said three times in a row, but SDI stops following grabs. As for the follow ups, yeah...he can do those. >.>

Even if it's 3 times. It starts at 0 percent. I doubt an olimar will chase around a wolf trying to grab at 0 percent. If they want to chase me around while I fair or laser them around then fine by me. XD

 

[Sumer]

Just a few quick ones a saw not mentioned from skimming the list:

peach dthrow cg at low percent.

charizard grab release cg, pretty sure this works, or instead of grabbing agian you can grab release into some jabs.

yoshi grab release cg, pretty sure this works as well as far as I remember from playing green ace a while back, but it's been a while since i played a good yoshi. lol

zelda upsmash at low percent, since wolf is a fatty he just falls into it and gets hit like 2-3 time. >.<

 

[JCav]

sumer come to ann arbor this weekend

 

[ArcPoint]

@ Sumer: I'm not really counting grab releases since those aren't really a result of Wolf's weight or fast falling, they're just properties of his grab release animations. Or advantages of the other character's grab release animations.

Zelda's Usmash crap is due to Wolf's weight/fast falling, so I'll have to go put that up...

 

[Sumer]

lol alright Arc.

I wish JCav. x.x But I only have one car up here for me and my bro, and I don't really know anyone from MSU that goes there so it's kinda hard to get a ride.

 

[-Jumpman-]

Not trying to derail the thread, but no johns. Play better. Wolf isn't used to his full potential. Most wolfs just SHAD and f-smash or stuff like that. Space better, use lasers better, don't play recklessly. Not trying to offend you guys, but really, step it up.

 

[rvkevin]

Not trying to derail the thread, but no johns. Play better. Wolf isn't used to his full potential. Most wolfs just SHAD and f-smash or stuff like that. Space better, use lasers better, don't play recklessly. Not trying to offend you guys, but really, step it up.

You missed the point of the thread...knowing which characters can CG you at low percents tells you to avoid grabs at low percents, same for Utilts and other shenanigans.

 

[JCav]

lol alright Arc.

I wish JCav. x.x But I only have one car up here for me and my bro, and I don't really know anyone from MSU that goes there so it's kinda hard to get a ride.

i think wtp goes there, go on the MI thread man, someone will help ya out

 

[ArcPoint]

Not trying to derail the thread, but no johns. Play better. Wolf isn't used to his full potential. Most wolfs just SHAD and f-smash or stuff like that. Space better, use lasers better, don't play recklessly. Not trying to offend you guys, but really, step it up.

That's a legitimate interpretation from the OP. I somewhat implied in the OP that this was primarily an informational thread and built on that implication throughout the responses in this thread.

So now there's an explicitly defined purpose to this thread in the OP. I was never complaining about how badly Wolf gets it, I'm just trying to address the problem and hopefully make it seem less daunting.

 

[Sumer]

i think wtp goes there, go on the MI thread man, someone will help ya out

Thanks for the advice JCav, i posted in the lolis thread. XD

sorry for unrelated post...*makes it related*

pit fthrow to fsmash at 0% = annoying <.<

or he can just cg a few with fthrow

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Forcepalm chaingrab can be broken out after the first grab if you mash out like any grab.

 

[ArcPoint]

O_O Really? Are you serious? But doesn't it start like a normal grab? Like once the animation starts you can't mash out...hmm...I'll have to go try that somehow.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

O_O Really? Are you serious? But doesn't it start like a normal grab? Like once the animation starts you can't mash out...hmm...I'll have to go try that somehow.

Yes you can.

After the first force palm if Lucario does it again you can break out by mashing.

 

[JCav]

sooo does that mean you can break out by pressing a button in a certain frame window or what?

 

[ArcPoint]

I think he means that you can mash out before the hitbox of force palm comes out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Pretty much, most people don't really know about it because most Lucario's don't bother trying it when you can simply mash out of it.

Lucario does have a tech chase with his Upthrow on Wolf.

He upthrows wolf can either jump or shine. If Wolf tries to jump Lucario can grab him again, if Lucario tries grabbing him while Wolf shines Lucario will be hit. If Lucario predicts the shine he can shield grab Wolf after the shine, but if Lucario shields and Wolf just jumps then he escapes.

So it's pretty much,

shine + grab = no grab
shine + shield = grab
jump + shield = no grab
jump + grab = grab

That's the worst thing Lucario can do to wolf in any form of a chain grab, he can try to tech chase for 4%.

Lucario is better off going for utilt juggling than this honestly, but hurray for information that won't be used in tournament.

 

[Seagull Joe]

O_O Really? Are you serious? But doesn't it start like a normal grab? Like once the animation starts you can't mash out...hmm...I'll have to go try that somehow.

Are you serious? I thought everyone knew this.

 

[~Kyte]

marth can fthrow -> fthrow -> dthrow -> dthrow to fsmash i believe

also bowser can grab release ->
regrab
overb
downb
ftilt
dtilt
jab

however he cant do anything to wolf if he jump releases... so if bowser grabs you mash jump...

 

[ArcPoint]

Grab release combos are more of a result of the other character's frame advantage...not necessarily Wolf's fall rate and weight.

And it doesn't seem like Marth can chain any of his Dthrows into another grab.

 

[~Kyte]

it would require a boost grab, but i may be mistaken

 

[JCav]

no marth can only do 3 f throws and f smash

 

[Flayl]

Grab release combos are more of a result of the other character's frame advantage...not necessarily Wolf's fall rate and weight.

This is partially true, due to Wolf's fall rate he is on the worse end of the ground grab release stuff. The only people worse off than him are the Mother characters, and of course there are a few others characters that go "even" with him.