Sakurai knows what he is doing

[Zanibas]

I just personally believe that if US as a community had the resources, the "logstics" knowledge, and the funding, we'd still never make it.

Let's consider it at a time where we are 2 years past the release of Brawl. We are placed in the development of Brawl. Sakurai has done nothing as of yet on a sequel. We are creating this from nothing and Melee . What would we improve?

"More"

I believe that would've been the motto of our group, creating "more" items, "more" characters, and "more" stages. All we'd be doing is creating an expansion on the game, with no regards to innovation, as lots of people here have stated. I DOUBT we could've thought of assist trophies, an actual "single player" campaign WITH co-op, as well as the addition of all these innovative stages and techniques! We'd decide "wavedashing in" and probably use the same engine as well.


These people have EXPERIENCE. They have been making games, and SAKURAI knows what his "unpredictability" can be used for

 

[superorange]

All we would get if the Smash community designed the game is Melee 1.5

Progressing means making some things worse, and some things better.



And somehow,I heavily doubt the smashboards community could POSSIBLY make the game balanced. I think we would just make it more unbalanced.

And the competitive smash scene is the MINORITY. Most of the people who play this game, play it for the fun and random battles, rather than the "competitive" aspect. You guys need to accept that a perfectly balanced, competitive game just isn't as fun for casual gamers.


And really, if all you're prepared to do is ***** about how you could make a better game then Sakurai, why are you bothering anyway? It's obvious you're too pompous to actually enjoy the game.

 

[Xanderous]

You ****ing idiots. For the last time, a competitive game is fun for everyone, but a casual game is only fun for casuals.

 

[serosfan]

Well I AM a game developter and I can say its totally possible to anyone to make a game, if he's dedicated enough.

This is quite true. I am currently studying to become a Game Developer, and I have ideas that could blow minds, but honestly...

WOULD the Smash Community make a game better than what Sakurai is doing?

Hell no.

The Community would include all sorts of complex things, and honestly, it would not be as fun to all the people I want to play the game with. I sure could do those things, but would my friends? No. They would get frustrated, and not play the game.

 

[serosfan]

You ****ing idiots. For the last time, a competitive game is fun for everyone, but a casual game is only fun for casuals.

Who the hell said this was casual? Because a game we have not seen all the way has some things you could call casual, you assume that it is not going to be fun for competitive gamers?

 

[A New England Winter]

You ****ing idiots. For the last time, a competitive game is fun for everyone, but a casual game is only fun for casuals.

Competitive games are fun only for tournyf*gs, like yourself, who ***** about balancing issues and demand **** from the developer, who find cheap glitches and call them "Advanced Techniques", who often say stupid **** like, "To maximize popularity and positive reviews, ultimately leading to more revenue, he'd make it with the hardcore in mind," or "I think the Smash Community could make a better game than he ever could," because they think they are the ****ing second coming of Jesus when it comes to gaming, with unfallible knowledge about every single bit of the game development process, the motives of the creator and their works, and can apparently get into the heads of every game reviewer on the planet and get their reasons for why they rate a game highly or lowly on certain games.

There's so many things that Sakurai will never realize. ORLY??? Like making items optional in one player mode. That's ****ing pointless and you know it. Are you that stupid? Or bringing back wavedashing,Wavedashing was a glitch, not a real move. Why bring back a bug in the game? or making the game balanced for us. Yeah, because the adverage gamer gives a flying **** about that. I'd bet 100 dollars that the adverage gamer would rather see a new character color in Brawl than just a change in balance. We really could make a better game. No, we couldn't. Conceptually, maybe, but in action, no.

Smash isn't casual or competitive, it's a normal game. It can be played either way, or neither way. Now shut up and go circle your elitist Smash wagons (with Super Armor Frames every 3rd frame) somewhere else.

 

[Frogla]

Competitive games are fun only for tournyf*gs, like yourself, who ***** about balancing issues and demand **** from the developer, who find cheap glitches and call them "Advanced Techniques", who often say stupid **** like, "To maximize popularity and positive reviews, ultimately leading to more revenue, he'd make it with the hardcore in mind," or "I think the Smash Community could make a better game than he ever could," because they think they are the ****ing second coming of Jesus when it comes to gaming, with unfallible knowledge about every single bit of the game development process, the motives of the creator and their works, and can apparently get into the heads of every game reviewer on the planet and get their reasons for why they rate a game highly or lowly on certain games.



Smash isn't casual or competitive, it's a normal game. It can be played either way, or neither way. Now shut up and go circle your elitist Smash wagons (with Super Armor Frames every 3rd frame) somewhere else.

I lol'd...
You sir are the Martin Luther King Jr of Smash Fans everywhere

 

[Tony_]

Competitive games are fun only for tournyf*gs, like yourself, who ***** about balancing issues and demand **** from the developer, who find cheap glitches and call them "Advanced Techniques", who often say stupid **** like, "To maximize popularity and positive reviews, ultimately leading to more revenue, he'd make it with the hardcore in mind," or "I think the Smash Community could make a better game than he ever could," because they think they are the ****ing second coming of Jesus when it comes to gaming, with unfallible knowledge about every single bit of the game development process, the motives of the creator and their works, and can apparently get into the heads of every game reviewer on the planet and get their reasons for why they rate a game highly or lowly on certain games.



Smash isn't casual or competitive, it's a normal game. It can be played either way, or neither way. Now shut up and go circle your elitist Smash wagons (with Super Armor Frames every 3rd frame) somewhere else.

You sir, win an internet.

 

[The Hypnotist]

It's called logic, and here's how you use it:

Hardcore players are the only ones who CARE about balance. Everyone else wouldn't know what balance was if it bit them in the ***. Therefore, no matter how the game turns out, those people will be content, but the hardcore players, the ones who actually care about the game, are left out. And that, my friend, is bull****. A competitive game, believe it or not, is still fun for casual gamers, but a casual game is not fun for competitive players. To maximize popularity and positive reviews, ultimately leading to more revenue, he'd make it with the hardcore in mind.

QFT.

I'll say it again, if we had the money and resources (meaning we could use the same devlopers) we could make a better game.

 

[Mr. Sunny Patch]

Competitive games are fun only for tournyf*gs, like yourself, who ***** about balancing issues and demand **** from the developer, who find cheap glitches and call them "Advanced Techniques", who often say stupid **** like, "To maximize popularity and positive reviews, ultimately leading to more revenue, he'd make it with the hardcore in mind," or "I think the Smash Community could make a better game than he ever could," because they think they are the ****ing second coming of Jesus when it comes to gaming, with unfallible knowledge about every single bit of the game development process, the motives of the creator and their works, and can apparently get into the heads of every game reviewer on the planet and get their reasons for why they rate a game highly or lowly on certain games.



Smash isn't casual or competitive, it's a normal game. It can be played either way, or neither way. Now shut up and go circle your elitist Smash wagons (with Super Armor Frames every 3rd frame) somewhere else.

You are amazing dude.

 

[Xanderous]

Xaoz, no. Not even close.

 

[Cless]

Xaoz, I suppose you find no other fighting game fun then? Because that is what I infer from your statements.

 

[ZeroFallenSkater]

i just hope brawl is close to more similar to melee than different

 

[Cless]

Brawl is going to be its own game. If you want to play Melee, then do so. It's not going anywhere.

 

[ZeroFallenSkater]

brawl will always have at least something similar to melee though which will make it more fun for me

 

[Cless]

It's similar in that it's the same basic fighting engine.

 

[ZeroFallenSkater]

thats why its sick

 

[Chi's Finest]

Competitive games are fun only for tournyf*gs, like yourself, who ***** about balancing issues and demand **** from the developer, who find cheap glitches and call them "Advanced Techniques", who often say stupid **** like, "To maximize popularity and positive reviews, ultimately leading to more revenue, he'd make it with the hardcore in mind," or "I think the Smash Community could make a better game than he ever could," because they think they are the ****ing second coming of Jesus when it comes to gaming, with unfallible knowledge about every single bit of the game development process, the motives of the creator and their works, and can apparently get into the heads of every game reviewer on the planet and get their reasons for why they rate a game highly or lowly on certain games.



Smash isn't casual or competitive, it's a normal game. It can be played either way, or neither way. Now shut up and go circle your elitist Smash wagons (with Super Armor Frames every 3rd frame) somewhere else.

This guy is my hero. So **** true, and I'm sure even a few other competitive players can admit it.

 

[Xanderous]

He's totally wrong. Melee is a competitive game that is fun for everyone. He's just being selfish, wanting to take the game away from competitive players while keeping it for himself. Competition between players stems from a game's depth, and there is always a choice to delve that deep or not for the casual players. But if a game is shallow, the competitive players have no choice and must move on. Do you understand now? I'm not being a jerk about this, it's just simple logic. The way you want it, you're narrowing the game's audience, while I want to broaden it.

You're just a selfish prick.

 

[Cless]

I don't agree with him. He's too extreme, just like Xanderous is too extreme. Smash is both casual and competitive, which is why it is great. There's room enough for both without biting each other's heads off. Any fighting game at its core comes down to mindgames, regardless of what the characters in the game can do. Tiers are always a guiding factor, but it's all about mindgames.

The developers aren't going to screw it up. I have faith.

 

[Xanderous]

I don't agree with him. He's too extreme, just like Xanderous is too extreme. Smash is both casual and competitive, which is why it is great. There's room enough for both without biting each other's heads off. Any fighting game at its core comes down to mindgames, regardless of what the characters in the game can do. Tiers are always a guiding factor, but it's all about mindgames.

The developers aren't going to screw it up. I have faith.

That's exactly what I've been saying! he wants to make it entirely casual, but I want to keep it casual AND competitive.

 

[Cless]

Yeah, but cursing people out never gets your point across, and then you get people blindly agreeing with people that disagree with you.

 

[RyNo 86]

Your all over thinking it. Sakurai didn't make a competitive game in melee, he made a game and left it to use to make it competitve. Think about it, all the advanced techs wern't made by Sakurai. We discovered wavedashing, we discovered l-canceling (known as z-canceling in ssb 64) ect. We made the rules for the tournaments and all the teir lists. We organized all the tournaments. We made the smash world forums so we can descover new things and make the game more competitive. We made guides for noobs and got advice from each other. We made everything in the game competitive. It will be fine. Sakurai will make the game and we'll make it competitive.

Imagine, if Sakurai took it upon himself to make the game for competitive smashers, it would take years. The only way he could get the game as competitive as we want it is for him to let us do it. I think that we can make everything just a competitve as melee. We'll find new glitches and techniques, so I wouldn't worry.

 

[Xanderous]

I hope you're right, man.

 

[PaperLink]

I think that Sakurai will inherently fix bugs from melee, making it less competitive. If he takes out all those glitches, who cares? Competitive players can just play the game in a new way or continue to play melee. Also, he will HAVE to leave some "Advanced techniques" because they're done using something in the game that he put in intentionally (like L-canceling), because to remove it would remove the game mechanic. Even if it doen't have any glitches or advanced techniques, the Smash community is dedicated enough that it'll still be competitive.

 

[darkNES386]

I think some of you are missing the point of what makes Smash competative. Yes, advanced techniques help... but I feel confident that I could beat someone WITHOUT them. As long as I'm aware of my spacing, have knowledge of my opponents attacks and patterns... I have the upper-hand in the battle. That's what it appears Brawl will focus more on. There will be some rock/paper/scissors (mind games) such as is he dashing to grab... to attack... to just run past me or is he going to TRIP... so should I roll, stand my ground, get ready to shield grab, dodge in place, jump, or attack to head him off? See how much depth there already is? Do I then trip past the player holding his ground who is attacking me in an attempt to doge or do I roll back or I do jump or I do I try to grab him before he get's his attack off or do i just throw an attack with higher priority out there? Do I short hop attack?.... I hope you don't consider short hopping to be "tooo" advanced. Correct me if I'm wrong... but in the original MARIO game for NES... you could control how high you jump.

 

[Boofer]

It's a good thing I don't take advantage of the glitches. It's not like the game isn't fun without them.

 

[HourglassMemory]

It's a good thing I don't take advantage of the glitches. It's not like the game isn't fun without them.

I always thoguht that using glitches to our advantage was abusing the system for some more points and whatnot.
I personally do not give a **** about glitches. I just play the game. It's fun without any of those childish abuses.

 

[PaperLink]

I always thoguht that using glitches to our advantage was abusing the system for some more points and whatnot.
I personally do not give a **** about glitches. I just play the game. It's fun without any of those childish abuses.

Agreed'd!!

 

[The Hypnotist]

He's totally wrong. Melee is a competitive game that is fun for everyone. He's just being selfish, wanting to take the game away from competitive players while keeping it for himself. Competition between players stems from a game's depth, and there is always a choice to delve that deep or not for the casual players. But if a game is shallow, the competitive players have no choice and must move on. Do you understand now? I'm not being a jerk about this, it's just simple logic. The way you want it, you're narrowing the game's audience, while I want to broaden it.

You're just a selfish prick.

If anyone knew what logic was they'd listen to you, I'm sorry I feel like the only one with you.

 

[frankisvital]

I'm stunned (though I really shouldn't be) at the stupidity of some people on the forum. You're honestly suggesting that you, a bunch of fanboys, could make a better game than an experienced game designer?

I really hate to do it, but I'm gonna pull the age card. How old is the average Smashboards member? Let's face it, you're a bunch of angry kids. You're angry that this game isn't Melee 2, you're angry that [insert character here], you're angry that there's no wavedashing or whatever. But no matter how angry you get, no matter how awesome you think your ideas are, Sakurai is still smarter than you when it comes to video games.

Sakurai is making a game for ALL of us, the competitives and the casuals. If we want it to be competitive, we'll make it competitive. What you want to do is make a game for only you, one that has only what you want. If that isn't selfishness, then I'm not sure what is.

Now...

 

[The Hypnotist]

I'll say it again because no one is really addressing it.

If we had the same resources (money and game developers) we could make (direct) a better game.

We wouldn't do stupid things like hide names online.

We wouldn't take things out like wavedashing when the vast majority of casual players aren't affected by it or even know what it is.

We would make a balanced roster

It would be both casual and competitive but any game is casual so it'd be built competitivly but still anyone could play it, and enjoy it.

 

[Classic-Black]

bull****.

ONline would be whatever Nintendo allows you to do with it, or not at all

You have no idea why Wding was removed, since it could've just been a side effect of the new game engine

An it's pretty hard to say you could make a better game when it hasn't even come out yet, OR that you could do better

 

[The Hypnotist]

Considering Sakurai things it's cool to not have an intimidation factor of not even having the option to know who your playing... and not having a ranking system I'm sure we could do a better job.

 

[Classic-Black]

THat's assuming that's the entire way Sakurai wanted to make the online set-up, and had absolutely no restriction from Nintendo.

EDIT: and that's still saying you could make a better game because you don't like how somethings are implemented. You probably wouldnt've thought of ATs so whoever didn't make the roster just would'nt make it in the game. Your also assuming that you'd have free reign to make online however you want, you don't

and your assuming your game would be more "fun" for everyone when you haven't even played it yet. That's just arrogant

 

[PaperLink]

I'm stunned (though I really shouldn't be) at the stupidity of some people on the forum. You're honestly suggesting that you, a bunch of fanboys, could make a better game than an experienced game designer?

I really hate to do it, but I'm gonna pull the age card. How old is the average Smashboards member? Let's face it, you're a bunch of angry kids. You're angry that this game isn't Melee 2, you're angry that [insert character here], you're angry that there's no wavedashing or whatever. But no matter how angry you get, no matter how awesome you think your ideas are, Sakurai is still smarter than you when it comes to video games.

Now...

Agreed'd the sequel!

I'll say it again because no one is really addressing it.

If we had the same resources (money and game developers) we could make a better game.

We wouldn't do stupid things like hide names online.

We wouldn't take things out like wavedashing when the vast majority of casual players aren't affected by it or even know what it is.

We would make a balanced roster

It would be both casual and competitive but any game is casual so it'd be built competitivly but still anyone could play it, and enjoy it.

That may be ture (can't emphasize "may" enough here), there'd be a million techs, and since the majority of the people making said game would be ppl whining about brawl not being competitive (read: glitchy) enough (I'm not saying that all competitive players would do this, just competitive whiners), the learning curve would be slow, and only the whiners would play it. Everyone else will be playing brawl. Plus most of you just don't have the know-how.

in essence, you'd just get a ROM of Melee, and make melee 2.0, what you've all been whining about for so long.

Sakurai made melee, didn't he? He knows what he's doing. The only game the community has made is Super smash flash (look it up), and that's not working out too well.

On the other hand, Ridley wouldn't be too big anymore, would he?

 

[The Hypnotist]

THat's assuming that's the entire way Sakurai wanted to make the online set-up, and had absolutely no restriction from Nintendo.

EDIT: and that's still saying you could make a better game because you don't like how somethings are implemented. You probably wouldnt've thought of ATs so whoever didn't make the roster just would'nt make it in the game. Your also assuming that you'd have free reign to make online however you want, you don't

and your assuming your game would be more "fun" for everyone when you haven't even played it yet. That's just arrogant

I've always thought about pokeballs but not as pokemon, honestly, they wouldn't have been called ATs though. And I have a feeling that Sakurai did Brawl the way he wanted to, just read the updates.

 

[The Hypnotist]

That may be ture (can't emphasize "may" enough here), there'd be a million techs, and since the majority of the people making said game would be ppl whining about brawl not being competitive (read: glitchy) enough (I'm not saying that all competitive players would do this, just competitive whiners), the learning curve would be slow, and only the whiners would play it. Everyone else will be playing brawl. Plus most of you just don't have the know-how.

in essence, you'd just get a ROM of Melee, and make melee 2.0, what you've all been whining about for so long.

Sakurai made melee, didn't he? He knows what he's doing. The only game the community has made is Super smash flash (look it up), and that's not working out too well.

On the other hand, Ridley wouldn't be too big anymore, would he?

There wouldn't be millions of techs and every if there were it wouldn't mean the learning curve would be slow. And you could still play with pokeballs on max with bombs. You could still play casually there would just be a better option to actually play competitively.

Edit: **** I keep forgeting to multi-quote, sorry!

 

[Classic-Black]

that doesn't change the fact that everything runs through Nintendo. and considering the company policy when it comes to online, do you really think you could theoretically make it that much better. From the sounds of it, you want it like XBL, or something like that, something Nintendo probably wouldn't let you get away with

 

[The Hypnotist]

that doesn't change the fact that everything runs through Nintendo. and considering the company policy when it comes to online, do you really think you could theoretically make it that much better. From the sounds of it, you want it like XBL, or something like that, something Nintendo probably wouldn't let you get away with

Mario Kart, and Strikers had way better online stuff... I think we remember that ranking system in strikers. I think we remember how great the match making was in Mario Kart.