Sakurai explains why Ridley isn't Playable.

[Shog]

Oh wow, I just realized Ridley Amiibo ... O_O I wonder how it would have looked like.

And I atleast want a Space Pirate as a playable character with Ridley Final Smash coming from the Background Master Hand style

 

[GunGunW]

People shouldn't be insulting or demonizing Sakurai but some of you think too highly of him. It's just as ridiculous.

That's the ultimate voice of reason.

 

[NessAtc.]

holy crap
16 pages and this topic was started yesterday
anyway can't say I didn't see it coming.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You know what I'm nervous of? What is Nintendo leans on Sakurai to make Ridley playable? I would originally think that this would be a great idea. Especially if Nintendo sees how muchhype that would bring in forDLC (and therefore how much money it would bring in). But we know Sakurai does not like Ridley. What if he intentionally made a DLC Ridley terrible? Just to prove a point.

All this arguingis getting overwhelming. I'll close by saying I still appreciate all that Sakurai has done. But he made a lot of choices I don't personally agree with. And since I'm a paying customer I feel like i do have the right to complain about those choices, Also to hope for patches. Yes the new smash will be incredible. But yes I would like to see Ridley as DLC.

I think that if he released Ridley ( or indeed any controversial character) as DLC, There's really no downside. And those of us who one Ridley could get him in our game, and those of us who don't can be perfectly happy without him.

And besides I'm judging right now a game that I haven't even played So as soon as I get back from the gym, I will go to my GameStop and remedy that.

SMASH BROS HYPE!!!

 

[Etc_Guy]

Oh wow, I just realized Ridley Amiibo ... O_O I wonder how it would have looked like.

And I atleast want a Space Pirate as a playable character with Ridley Final Smash coming from the Background Master Hand style

Doh! I forgot about the amiibos. Ridley's would break easily because he's so thin.

 

[Chrollo.]

I only came here to say this: Being big has nothing to do with Ridley's character, and if he was sized down, he would still be Ridley. Kraid is the big guy of the Metroid series, not Ridley. Hell, Ridley's one of the smallest bosses in the entire series. Compared to Kraid, Ridley's looks like he's Samus's height. Ridley's character revolves around him being intelligent, being sadistic and being Samus's arch rival, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

I only came here to say this: Being big has nothing to do with Ridley's character, and if he was sized down, he would still be Ridley. Kraid is the big guy of the Metroid series, not Ridley. Hell, Ridley's one of the smallest bosses in the entire series. Compared to Kraid, Ridley's looks like he's Samus's height. Ridley's character revolves around him being intelligent, being sadistic and being Samus's arch rival, nothing more, nothing less.

Truth

 

[Arklos]

Doh! I forgot about the amiibos. Ridley's would break easily because he's so thin.

Can't get thinner than Mr Game & Watch!

 

[MysticKnives]

You know what I'm nervous of? What is Nintendo leans on Sakurai to make Ridley playable? I would originally think that this would be a great idea. Especially if Nintendo sees how muchhype that would bring in forDLC (and therefore how much money it would bring in). But we know Sakurai does not like Ridley. What if he intentionally made a DLC Ridley terrible? Just to prove a point.

All this arguingis getting overwhelming. I'll close by saying I still appreciate all that Sakurai has done. But he made a lot of choices I don't personally agree with. And since I'm a paying customer I feel like i do have the right to complain about those choices, Also to hope for patches. Yes the new smash will be incredible. But yes I would like to see Ridley as DLC.

I think that if he released Ridley ( or indeed any controversial character) as DLC, There's really no downside. And those of us who one Ridley could get him in our game, and those of us who don't can be perfectly happy without him.

And besides I'm judging right now a game that I haven't even played So as soon as I get back from the gym, I will go to my GameStop and remedy that.

SMASH BROS HYPE!!!

Stating a baseless assumption? While what you're saying makes sense, don't make such assumptions, as it only weakens your entire point.

 

[Erimir]

Although thinking about it more, I do find Sakurai's inconsistency really irritating.

I could forgive him for leaving out Ridley IF... he cared as much about Ganondorf as he claims to care about making Ridley true to his games.

Giving Ganondorf that bull**** Falcondorf move set a third time, but can't put Ridley in because he wouldn't be threatening enough?

Ganondorf has plenty of canonical moves that would be easy to fit into Smash. He doesn't even need to be converted into a (full) sword fighter, if he's worried about him being too much like the FE crowd or something. He has appearances in seven games, giving him plenty of material to work with. Dead Man's Volley, special moves where he uses a sword or trident (rather than using them all the time), hovering, teleporting, ground pound shockwaves, etc. etc.

But Sakurai is completely unconcerned with making Ganondorf true to his games. But he claims that Ridley just has to be 100% accurate?

Like someone else said earlier, it looks like Kid Icarus is the only series that Sakurai actually spent much effort on making true to their games. Link and DK got like, new dash attacks. That's pretty much it for making non-Sakurai characters more canonical.

I probably also would forgive it if he had put in K Rool, but apparently Smash 4 was all about muh recency, so K Rool had no chance.

Basically, overhauling Ganondorf was one of the things I most wanted to see in Smash 4. I wanted Ridley, but to see Ridley rejected for reasons that he completely disregards for Ganondorf adds extra sting.

 

[SmashBro99]

You are all gonna buy the game anyway, quit crying and go enjoy it. Seriously this is just pathetic now.

@.@

We get it Sakurai is mean you didnt get your way he sucks, go play his game now xD

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

You are all gonna buy the game anyway, quit crying and go enjoy it. Seriously this is just pathetic now.

@.@

Oh shut up. Who says we can't enjoy a game and be disappointed by it. We can say what we want. I'm still gonna buy this game as soon as I'm finished with School, and I'm still gonna play the **** out of it. Just because I dislike some decisions doesn't mean I hate Sakurai. Grow up and look at the bigger picture.

 

[Chrollo.]

I probably also would forgive it if he had put in K Rool, but apparently Smash 4 was all about muh recency, so K Rool had no chance.

Oh god thank god I'm not the only one who thinks that he left Rool out because he's 'irrelevant'. I'm literally waiting for him to say that K Rool isn't in the game because he's "irrelevant".

 

[Erimir]

You are all gonna buy the game anyway, quit crying and go enjoy it. Seriously this is just pathetic now.

Hey. I'm not going to buy the game.

(I already bought it.)

But I'm completely free to say that Sakurai disappointed me nonetheless.

I didn't want a whole laundry list of characters. Mega Man was my most wanted (and I'm very pleased with his inclusion and I'm gonna get me one of those Mega Man amiibos and aww yeah), but beyond that it was just Ridley and/or K Rool and an overhauled Ganondorf. I guess I should be happy with just Mega Man, but I feel that giving Ganondorf at least one or two new, canonical moves was the least he could do, and he didn't even do that.


The thing that bothers people is that it feels like he's not being honest. I think the decision probably had more to do with development time and promotion of certain series and so forth. Ridley certainly would take some effort to get right. But if he was honest and just said that they wanted to promote other series and Ridley would be too time consuming to create, people would probably accept it more.

I mean, it's pretty obvious the roster choices were significantly driven by marketing... But he seems unwilling to acknowledge this, like we can't all tell.

 

[SmashBro99]

Grow up and look at the bigger picture.

You get it.

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

Oh god thank god I'm not the only one who thinks that he left Rool out because he's 'irrelevant'. I'm literally waiting for him to say that K Rool isn't in the game because he's "irrelevant".

So true... Main 4 things I wanted: Palutena, K Rool, Ridley, and revamped Ganondorf

Ridley didn't get in because he wouldn't "represent his character well" with a simple resizing, yet Ganondorf remains completely unrepresentative of his series.

K. Rool isn't in because he's irrelevant nowadays, but Duck Hunt Dog gets in?

It makes no sense.

 

[Shog]

I also dislike the idea that Ridley supporter will hate the whole game and everything...that is obviously not true. I mean...we would be just happier, you know

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

Hey. I'm not going to buy the game.

(I already bought it.)

But I'm completely free to say that Sakurai disappointed me nonetheless.

I didn't want a whole laundry list of characters. Mega Man was my most wanted (and I'm very pleased with his inclusion and I'm gonna get me one of those Mega Man amiibos and aww yeah), but beyond that it was just Ridley and/or K Rool and an overhauled Ganondorf. I guess I should be happy with just Mega Man, but I feel that giving Ganondorf at least one or two new, canonical moves was the least he could do, and he didn't even do that.

The thing that bothers people is that it feels like he's not being honest. I think the decision probably had more to do with development time and promotion of certain series and so forth. Ridley certainly would take some effort to get right. But if he was honest and just said that they wanted to promote other series and Ridley would be too time consuming to create, people would probably accept it more.

I mean, it's pretty obvious the roster choices were significantly driven by marketing... But he seems unwilling to acknowledge this, like we can't all tell.

I agree on the what you're saying about him being dishonest here. He's been doing that lately. There was a recent quote from his latest Famitsu interview (Which I hope so much isn't true) where he says that he wanted to do more with Ganondorf, but doesn't change Ganondorf because his sluggish movement (Which is nothing like the games) reminds him of his late father...
...
Really? Really Sakurai? And you know what, you can almost smell the bull****. Yeah, I know, I probably sound like a **** right now. But you know what, unless Sakurai's father used to Falcon punch people, there's no reason why Sakurai couldn't just keep him sluggish and use a
sword/dead man's/ a new moveset.

And even if for some reason Ganondorf's magical kicks and punches somehow remind Sakurai of his dad, you've got the option to create classic Ganon with an original moveset! Too much work? Guess what? You've got custom movesets. If you've got ideas and want to do more with him, like you say you, just add some different custom moves! You did it with Palutena, Sakurai. There's literally no reason why sentiments should keep you from changing Ganondorf if you want to do more with him AND you want him to remind you of your father who apparently Falcon kicked and Falcon punched.

If this is real, It's probably Sakurai at his prickiest. He's seriously using his dad as a dishonest excuse for just not wanting to do the work or simply running out of time. Call me a **** all you want, but I feel that I've made my point clear.

 

[IsmaR]

Spoiler: Apply one Super Mushroom/Giant Smash mode

Still looks like Ridley to me.

 

[redroses]

Of course it still looks like Ridley. Sakurai never said shrinking Ridley was the sole reason why he didn't make him playable or that it wouldn't make him Ridley. He mentioned three things they would have to change on Ridley to make him playable actually. Shrink him down, change his wing size and not make him an aerial fighter. Even if the heights in her screenshots look good, look at the size of his wings and his hitbox area when he is crawling. You would actually have to shrink him more and shrink his wings to make him work.

I think, all these three points together made Sakurai not want to make Ridley playable. It's not so much the size of Ridley, as it is his proportions that make him hard to work with. Combined with him not being able to be an aerial fighter, because that just wouldn't work in smash and not making him an aerial fighter wouldn't do him justice.

 

[IsmaR]

I'd argue making the Koopa Clown Car (and riders) anything but an aerial fighter doesn't do it justice prior to seeing it this game.

My point was that Sakurai's wording seems to be coming off as "he said it so it must be true" to most people. By which I mean "It wouldn't be Ridley anymore" to him specifically =/= it wouldn't be Ridley to its fans (along with Metroid, Smash and dragon fans in general). Ironically it's the inverted situation as the previous interview that stated more or less if they put their mind to it, they could do it ("he'd be a bit slow") whereas now it seems like more or less an excuse/PR answer meant to cover why they didn't bother doing it.

But that's only my perspective. Not the end of the world or anything, either way.

I actually think the first picture does a fairly good job of showing that Z-axis/folded up wing thing Swamp was talking about.

 

[redroses]

Ah ok, I see what you mean.
The clown car is a good example, however, even though it is close to the ground, it is sill hovering which gives the impression of it flying. Now, of course this could have been done for Ridley, lift him a bit of the ground with a constant flapping wings animation. This would feel like he is flying, even if he is close to the ground. But I can see height being a problem in that case (if you make him hover, he will automatically be higher than other players, but at the same time, you have to make him even smaller which would conflict with his crawling animations (as he would be too small) or in the case that he does stand in some attacks) or making him look cramped (by having is legs angled more to his body).
That might have been a bit confusing, but I hope you will understand what I mean!

The first image works somewhat, but his wings are too long, they would actually clip into the floor. Of course, this is only a problem when using the Ridley from other M design, because his wings are just stupidly long, other Ridleys wouldn't even have this problem.

I just have a feeling, by the way Ridley behaves in this game, that they actually did try a bit to make him playable. His movements and his stock icon, it doesn't feel like they started working on Ridley as only a boss.

 

[Arcadenik]

So true... Main 4 things I wanted: Palutena, K Rool, Ridley, and revamped Ganondorf

Ridley didn't get in because he wouldn't "represent his character well" with a simple resizing, yet Ganondorf remains completely unrepresentative of his series.

K. Rool isn't in because he's irrelevant nowadays, but Duck Hunt Dog gets in?

It makes no sense.

Duck Hunt represents an new franchise that wasn't represented in past Smash games. Also retro characters from retro franchises don't have to be currently relevant to get in. That's why we call them retro characters.

K. Rool would only be adding more representation to a franchise that already is represented with two characters. Donkey Kong also isn't retro like Duck Hunt is.

Also, they don't add retro characters from non-retro franchises. Otherwise, we would have Geno already.

Also, Duck Hunt is the ONLY exception. That means it's not the norm to include many retro characters. We had 2 retros out of 14 Melee newcomers. We had 2 retros out of 18 Brawl newcomers. Now we got only one retro out of 15 SSB4 newcomers. Retro franchises are always the exception to the relevancy issue.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

People shouldn't be insulting or demonizing Sakurai but some of you think too highly of him. It's just as ridiculous.

Agree with this.

None of those franchises you've mentioned is being more deserving of getting reps/keeping reps than the ones you've complained about. Sure, losing Wolf stung a bit, but Star Fox is adequately represented, and was quite frankly overrepresented in Brawl (hence why I hoped it was Falco who would get the axe).

What? Star Fox was perfectly fine with 3 characters.

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

I got to ask Ridley fans something, if the only way for Ridley to be in the game is to gimp him to hell and make him a charizard clone will you still take him? People say that Lucina, Dark Pit and Ganondorf don't have the same moveset form their games, but do you think the fans of these characters are happy about the way they play is smash? So as big as the Ridley fan base is why would Sakurai do that to your most request character?

Another point I like to make is if you hate smash and Sakurai so much that you will call him a hack, then why do you keep buying smash?
What keep you to buy it every time a new smash come out, what make this one any different from the other smash games? You guy complain about characters when you can complain about bugs, modes and other things. You not looking for Sakurai to make a great game, you want him to be your slave and make all your dreams come true. Newsflash this is the REAL world dreams don't come true all the time.

 

[SmashBro99]

I got to ask Ridley fans something, if the only way for Ridley to be in the game is to gimp him to hell and make him a charizard clone will you still take him? People say that Lucina, Dark Pit and Ganondorf don't have the same moveset form their games, but do you think the fans of these characters are happy about the way they play is smash? So as big as the Ridley fan base is why would Sakurai do that to your most request character?

Another point I like to make is if you hate smash and Sakurai so much that you will call him a hack, then why do you keep buying smash?
What keep you to buy it every time a new smash come out, what make this one any different from the other smash games? You guy complain about characters when you can complain about bugs, modes and other things. You not looking for Sakurai to make a great game, you want him to be your slave and make all your dreams come true. Newsflash this is the REAL world dreams don't come true all the time.

Careful, this type of post is considered trolling here probably, this thread is super sensitive at the moment

No logic
Pro Ridley only
Final Destination

Sakurai is the worst person ever what are we gonna do about him? We gotta take him out before Smash 5 so mini Ridley can be in, lets make a plan.

Maybe we can spam his twitter enough that he has to include oompa loompa Ridley dlc?

Seriously what can we do???

 

[Redd500]

Ganondorf is a powerful warlock who can kick your ass with physical and magical attacks in the main Zelda games. That's what his character in Smash Bros does as well. Not misrepresentation.

Olimar is tiny in his main games, yes, but it isn't key to his character. Not misrepresentation.

Someone in that TvTropes thread someone posted a while back said that Link is misrepresented because he can jump when he can't normally jump in the main games. Link's inability to jump isn't a main factor of his character. Not misrepresentation.

The only way a character is considered misrepresented is if the key points of their character are completely missed. The changes to the details are called artistic license.

 

[the8thark]

You are all gonna buy the game anyway, quit crying and go enjoy it. Seriously this is just pathetic now.

@.@

We get it Sakurai is mean you didnt get your way he sucks, go play his game now xD

Oh shut up. Who says we can't enjoy a game and be disappointed by it. We can say what we want. I'm still gonna buy this game as soon as I'm finished with School, and I'm still gonna play the **** out of it. Just because I dislike some decisions doesn't mean I hate Sakurai. Grow up and look at the bigger picture.

@ SmashBro99 has it said it just right right. There was no need for @ TheTrueCorrectGuy to pay him out for it.
People need to stop ******** to Sakurai about the little things and realise that SSB is an amazing game that he and his team worked so hard no and jsut be happy with that. No Smash game will be perfect but as long as it is damn good, than it'll be a good game we will play for ages. And from what I have heard/read, this game is that damn good, so just enjoy SSB WiiU for what it is and cut Sakurai some slack. He did the right thing Re: Ridley.

Someone in that TvTropes thread someone posted a while back said that Link is misrepresented because he can jump when he can't normally jump in the main games. Link's inability to jump isn't a main factor of his character. Not misrepresentation.

Ever played Zelda 2? And yes it is a misrepresentation. Everyone knows that Link not being able to jump in most Zelda games without the Roc's feather or being next to a ledge is a very integral part of his character. It's just as integral as his mute-ness.

 

[SmashBro99]

Ganondorf is a powerful warlock who can kick your *** with physical and magical attacks in the main Zelda games. That's what his character in Smash Bros does as well. Not misrepresentation.

Olimar is tiny in his main games, yes, but it isn't key to his character. Not misrepresentation.

Someone in that TvTropes thread someone posted a while back said that Link is misrepresented because he can jump when he can't normally jump in the main games. Link's inability to jump isn't a main factor of his character. Not misrepresentation.

The only way a character is considered misrepresented is if the key points of their character are completely missed. The changes to the details are called artistic license.

This guy knows what is up. Redd500 used Logic...ITS SUPER EFFECTIVE!

@ SmashBro99 has it said it just right right. There was no need for @ TheTrueCorrectGuy to pay him out for it.
People need to stop *****ing to Sakurai about the little things and realise that SSB is an amazing game that he and his team worked so hard no and jsut be happy with that. No Smash game will be perfect but as long as it is damn good, than it'll be a good game we will play for ages. And from what I have heard/read, this game is that damn good, so just enjoy SSB WiiU for what it is and cut Sakurai some slack. He did the right thing Re: Ridley.

Agree.

I'm not trolling when I say this, I do hope PM or some other hacker makes Ridley playable for you guys, I know playing Purple Charizard isn't the same

 

[the8thark]

Seriously what can we do???

Accept the fact that Sakurai got it right and just move on and enjoy SSB WIiU?

 

[SmashBro99]

Accept the fact that Sakurai got it right and just move on and enjoy SSB WIiU?

This is correct! You win! :D

 

[S_B]

The Pikmin thing is not a good argument; there are no other characters from the Pikmin games to compare the Pikmin and Olimar/Alph to, and so they fit fine. And in Pikmin, the playables are represented as normal-sized, not "holy flip those things are tiny" yet Ridley is already meant to be quite large

It's far from the only example: Olimar is supposed to be the size of a quarter, Pikachu is 13" tall, and have you seen how big Bowser is in the latest Mario games?

SSB will never capture character "canon". It just can't. Even his OWN goddamn character, Kirby, would be able to fly indefinitely if SSB were an accurate portrayal of the character.

I'm not even a Ridley fan, but I know for a fact that Ridley isn't too big, nor does he need to "fly forever" or some other such garbage.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Still can't believe this discussion is happening. I startingcto wish Sakurai had simply not spoken at all to set off this firestorm yet again when we have a completely new game with tons of content dumped on our hands.

 

[redroses]

I got to ask Ridley fans something, if the only way for Ridley to be in the game is to gimp him to hell and make him a charizard clone will you still take him? People say that Lucina, Dark Pit and Ganondorf don't have the same moveset form their games, but do you think the fans of these characters are happy about the way they play is smash? So as big as the Ridley fan base is why would Sakurai do that to your most request character?

No, I would rather he not be in the game.
And after hearing Sakurais reasons for not putting Ridley into the game, I can accept his reasons because I understand where he is coming from. I always rather have the character be thought out and added than just adding them so that they are in.

 

[Muster]

It's far from the only example: Olimar is supposed to be the size of a quarter, Pikachu is 13" tall, and have you seen how big Bowser is in the latest Mario games?

SSB will never capture character "canon". It just can't. Even his OWN goddamn character, Kirby, would be able to fly indefinitely if SSB were an accurate portrayal of the character.

I'm not even a Ridley fan, but I know for a fact that Ridley isn't too big, nor does he need to "fly forever" or some other such garbage.

Kirby 64 limited the amount of floating jumps he could do and this changed carried on to Sakurai's last kirby game, air ride.

Scale =/= size, Ridley is humungous in relation to samus according to the scale of their own game. Pokemon battles involved similarly sized sprites (models in X/Y) so scale does not matter even in their own games, and bowser's size is a moot point, due to the large variance between games.

 

[S_B]

Kirby 64 limited the amount of floating jumps he could do and this changed carried on to Sakurai's last kirby game, air ride.

Scale =/= size, Ridley is humungous in relation to samus according to the scale of their own game. Pokemon battles involved similarly sized sprites (models in X/Y) so scale does not matter even in their own games, and bowser's size is a moot point, due to the large variance between games.

And none of that changes the fact that RIdley wasn't that much bigger than Samus in at least one of the Metroid games.

Seriously, Ridley and Bowser both change sizes between games.

Once again, Ridley's size is absolutely no reason to exclude him from the game.

He doesn't want Ridley in the game for other reasons he's not sharing, but if he said THAT, he'd be getting bricks through his window from angry Ridley fans.

 

[Frostwraith]

Are people seriously stating that Kirby not having infinite jumps and Link being able to jump on his own mean inaccuracies in their portrayal?

Fine, let's make things canon and give Kirby infinite jumps and make Link auto-jump when he's on a ledge. True portrayals here true to their source material and canon... Oh yeah, but you just made a character broken and another absolutely useless! Congratulations!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Are people seriously stating that Kirby not having infinite jumps and Link being able to jump on his own mean inaccuracies in their portrayal?

Fine, let's make things canon and give Kirby infinite jumps and make Link auto-jump when he's on a ledge. True portrayals here true to their source material and canon... Oh yeah, but you just made a character broken and another absolutely useless! Congratulations!

The point people are trying to say is that if he just changed things around for the sake of gameplay then he could have done it with Ridley.

And I'm pretty sure you caught that point Frost. You're a smart guy. You wouldn't miss that point. I think you're misinterpreting it on purpose.

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

Are people seriously stating that Kirby not having infinite jumps and Link being able to jump on his own mean inaccuracies in their portrayal?

Fine, let's make things canon and give Kirby infinite jumps and make Link auto-jump when he's on a ledge. True portrayals here true to their source material and canon... Oh yeah, but you just made a character broken and another absolutely useless! Congratulations!

Ahem... Have you forgotten about poor Ganny? I guess all that time I spent explaining doesn't matter since people would sacrifice their first born child to keep Ridley from being playable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ahem... Have you forgotten about poor Ganny? I guess all that time I spent explaining doesn't matter since people would sacrifice their first born child to keep Ridley from being playable.

Okay there. Calm down.

That's going too far.