...!'s picks for Brawl (I'm sorry, I can no longer resist) - UPDATED FOR FEB. 2nd!

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I figure it's been about a week since these threads started, and most new ones are not well-though out and get closed rather quickly. I figure as long as I have a picture for each character, a coherant vision, and some extra accompanying info about who the character is, the mods shouldn't penalize me too hard for this.

Because Jeeze! I've been wanting to make one of these since McFox started this stupid trend.

I've decided to go the way of breaking my post up into sections, because that seems to work well.

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

I have added in new stuff. Particularly Movesets for some of the characters.

Also, I'm going to post a little extra info as to my stances on returning characters. Mostly recaps from old posts of mine.

Here I go, 19 characters in no particular order:

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RETURNING LUIGIFIED CLONES

This has been a debate just as heated as what 3rd party guy should get in, Which clones should stay and be luigified? These are my two cents on the arguments about the clones (who are, for the sake of the argument: Y.Link, Roy, Falco, Gannondorf, Pichu, Dr.Mario). Also, I'm discussing only clones, because I bet that all the characters with original movesets get in:

NEW GANNONDORF

- Duh. They should Luigify Gannondorf. His importance to the Zelda series is on par with that of Bowser in the Mario series. To deny the most important counterpart of link is to deny the Legend of Zelda, perhaps Nintendo's biggest sheer powerhouse of a series, it's fair due. The most simple route is to give him a sword and include that into his moveset. Also, I wouldn't be averse to including a hybridization of his appearances on OOT and WW. WW Gannondorf is my favorite one so far, based on his looks and the fact that his is my favorite boss fight ever.
Symbol: Triforce
Status: Face of evil
Would you bet money on luigification: Yes
Stage and/or BGM: A stage based on the final boss fight in Wind Waker would make me a happy camper.

NEW FALCO

- Similarly, and i've posted this before, Falco needs to be included because he represents a certain kind of friendship to Fox. He is the Fire to Fox's ice. Since Starfox seems so heavily inspired by classic space operas, I am not averse to saying that Falco is to Han Solo what Fox is to Luke Skywalker. You wouldn't get rid of Han Solo would you? Falco could represent the assault-side of combat (with big laser guns and stuff) while Fox could keep with the normal-starfox way, OR Fox could stay the way he is, and Falco could gain a much more aerial moveset to show that he is at home in the sky. I've posted my favorite look for him so far, the Star Fox Adventures look. Even the awesome character designs and graphics could not save that game.
Symbol: Starfox team logo
Status: Fox's best friend and rival
Would you bet money on luigification: Yes
Stage and/or BGM: Technically, there were already two stages from Starfox in SSBM. Corneria would be Fox's and Venom might count as Falco's.

FALCO MOVESET: ALSO A LITTLE INFO ABOUT MY STANCE ON WOLF, AND CLONES. ORIGINALLY POSTED IN STARFOX CHARACTERS DEBATE.

Falco Vs. Fox Vs. Wolf, huh?

As for Moves, Fox should keep his own. His Ground moves should be kept up to snuff and any good Air moves he has should go to Falco:

B: Laser
B>: Super speed
B^: Firefox (teehee)
Bv: Shine (NOV. 10 EDIT: Shine should have some opening lag to it)

Falco should be similar, but very different. His Aerials need to be much deadlier. I've decided to make him more about the laser guns and artillary, and make him the honorary spokesman for Assault:

B: Laser cannon (He fires a huge gun that sends arcing lasers in many directions foreward. A very random move, as you don't know where the Lasers will go. The Lasers have a fair bit of Knockback. The animation for pulling out the cannon should do small damage and should knock the enemy into the ideal range for the weapon's fire.)
B>: Bomb (Reminiscent of both the grenades in Assault, and of the standard Nova bombs in every Starfox game. Falco throws a Grenade foreward, which explodes in a white, sherical explosion. Takes a long time to finally detonate and has a deceptively short range, just to keep it fair.)
B^: Firebird (The Firebird should go much further than the firefox, and should have the ability to be controlled during flight to some degree. IT also does less damage to make up for it, but can hit multiple times.)
Bv: Barrier (Basically the shine with it's Assault name. Basically the same as his shine in SSBM.)

Now Wolf is harder. He needs to have a completely new moveset. I don't even think Shines and a "Firewolf" would be good for him to have. I don't really know about him. Any ideas?

NOTE ABOUT MECHANICS: FROM (NEW) FALCO IN BRAWL

Falco has always been my favorite Starfox character, and I am all for giving him an entirely different B moveset.

Also, an Idea about the jumping. How about making Falco a slowfaller, like we said, but then, when he presses down, he falls uber-fast like he does in Melee. That way, he could have an effective Air-to-air and Air-to-ground game, and an extra fun learning curve.

All the rest: Personally, I would love to see all of the clones return, even Pichu. You could make completely new movesets for all of them, BUT seeing as how Sakurai has said characters will get axed, I won't get my hopes up:

Roy: He was an advertisement for the new FE game, He is allowed to bow out and be replaced as i'm sure more popular FE characters have arisen.
Dr. Mario: I'm sad to see him go, but the fact remains that he is Mario in a labcoat, and is thus superfluous.
Y.Link: As with Dr. Mario, the fact is, YL is just a short version of adult link. If they had showed some Young footage in the new game I might change my tune, but as it stands I wouldn't bet on it.
Pichu: Poor Pichu. Nobody likes him, except the entire island of Japan. I bet he might just stay, though I wouldn't get my hopes up.

NOV. 10 EDIT: I made this post in the topic "Confirmed Character Theory" that explains my opinions for how and why characters should be in or out.

Well, I think the OP has the start of something useful. He's just badly informed about the Video game politics.

Yes, The "Main" characters are basically invincible. Mario, Link, Pikachu, Kirby, and Samus are givens, as are DK and Fox. Then there are the other Smash64 characters, who are rather immune: Luigi (Side-kick), Ness (Slightly obscure, but awesome) and Cap. Falcon (Unexpected, from a fighting game), and Jigglypuff(Pokemon... See below). That sums up the characters from the first game.

In Melee, they added 15 more characters of which, there are those that have integral roles in the games they are featured in (Not counting side characters or Spin offs):

Peach
Bowser
Zelda/Sheik
Y'link (Kinda)
Ganondorf
Mewtwo
Ice Climbers
Falco
Marth
Roy

Of these guys, Peach and Zelda have been helping or have been helped by their respective fellas in each game they have been in and are more or less safe. Bowser, Mewtwo, and Ganondorf are pretty safe because of their status as Final Bosses (Mewtwo is a Final Boss in that he is the biggest, hardest pokemon you fight in Pokemon R/B). Ice Climbers, Marth and Roy are main characters in their respective games, though Roy is only in Smash as an Advertisement for the new FE game. Falco is pretty safe, for the same reason Luigi is safe (Falco is Fox's sidekick after all, though a highly awesome one). The only character I have trouble justifying is Young Link. He is specifically a product of Ocarina of Time, and as such has to weather the fact that OoT is getting old, and that details from the later games might prevail. Sheik is on thin ice for the same reason, as a specific product of OoT.

Of this group I would narrow down the characters in most danger to three:

Roy (As an Advertisement. He might be switched out for another Fire Emblem character)
Y.Link (As it is TP Link that they are using, Y.Link may become obsolete)
Sheik (Same as Y.Link)

Now, the next group contains the miscellaneous characters that are spin-off characters, Off-beat characters, or could be argued as minor characters in their respective games:

Game & Watch
Pichu
Doc Mario

These three are the most in danger. As much as I hate to say it, G&W is somewhat of a Joke character, and may be switched out for another unexpected character (R.O.B anyone?) just to keep the cast fresh. Pichu is perennially unpopular among smash fans, as well as having had no real position in Pokemon games (See later in the article for Pokemon stuff). Doc Mario is odd, just because he is so closely related to Mario, and his games, though fun and popular, are highly unimportant.

So, thats 6 characters that have a chance to get the hook:

Roy
Y.Link
Sheik
G&W
Pichu
D.Mario

You shouldn't assume that all 6 of these characters will be cut, I'm just saying that if I was in Vegas, making a bet, These are the 6 I would count on.


Regarding new characters, I hate Pokemon. Not for the reason that everyone else hates Pokemon, but because they are so hard to categorize into "Can" and "Cannot" in SSB. The problem is that we are not Japanese, thats the main thing. If we were, we might say "No! Pichu is totally going to still be in it, he's the most popular Pokemon there ever was" or say "No, Jigglypuff won't be in it because popular opinion of him has dropped." Pokemon are so driven by popularity that Pika, Jiggly and Pichu got in just for their respective pop meaning. This makes it highly difficult to anticipate when a Pokemon will be cut, or when a new one will be added, because we can't see what the Japanese think about the cast of Emerald, or Diamond/Pearl. I want there to be new Pokemon, but darned if I can think of the ones that have the best chances.

Also, for completion's sake, here's a Mario series hierarchy list that I wrote for "TOAD DISCUSSION"

Listen, IMO, here is the Mario Hierarchy:

Big four:
1. Mario (Duh)
2. Luigi (Sidekick and brother)
3. Bowser (Everyone needs a Villan)
4. Peach (The Goal, damsel in distress, and love interest)

Then we move on the the lesser characters:

5. Yoshi (Debatable if he's really a Mario character anymore) (NOV. 10 edit: I take it back, he still is)
6. Toad (In nearly every game, is featured in numorous supporting roles, just like Yoshi)
7. Bowser Jr. (Is featured prominently in new Mario games)
8. Wario (Was featured in ONE Mario game before splitting off into his own series. Still routinely used in conjunction with Mario)
9. Daisy (Was featured as the damsel in ONE Mario game, then only recently revived. Also of note: She's the princess in the Movie)
10. Waluigi (Made up for the Mario sports and party games. Has no featured roles in any Main Marios)

Then Minions and truly minor characters:

11. Birdo (Has personality, and is sort of a love interest for Yoshi. If Waluigi was named anything else, she would be above him in a shot)
12. Kamek (Only less important than Birdo because of the volume of games featuring Birdo)
13. Random Bosses (Peatey Piranna goes here)
14. Random Enemies (Hammer Bros, Goombas, and Koopa Troopas go here)
15. Toadette (Mistake, disregard her)


As he is technically 3rd party, I didn't include Geno, just because his chances are influenced by an entirely different set of rules.

Thats my version of the Mario pecking order, judging from my experience playing Mario games (Since Mario 1, 2, and 3 on the NES, mind). You can disagree if you like, but that is how I see it, and you should have a good reason if you want to change my mind.

Now, onto Newcomers.

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NEWCOMERS

For my Newcomers, you would do well to take a few points into account. First is that this is all my opinion. You're allowed to not like it, But if you don't have any real reason to not like it, then please, PLEASE don't post. Trust me, I'm doing you a favor. It makes you look like an idiot to just say "No" or "I don't like him thus he shouldn't be in." You can do better, people.

TOAD

isn't he adorable?
- Toad is one of the many mushroom people who hail from the Mushroom kingdom. He made his playable debut in Mario 2, and continiued on into Wario's Woods, triumphantly. He also gets screwed over so much in Mario games that it just isn't fair. Basically, I just need to show you this list:

I decdided to make a point/counterpoint list for Toad. Most of these were said earlier in the thread, but most ppl haven't been reading the whole thing. (Points are against Toad, Counter points are for Toad [what I think]
Point: Toad is a generic character.
Counter Point: There is one Toad that is believed to be THE Toad (SMB2, Mario Kart, etc.)
Point: Toad is Peach's B-move.
CP: That can easily be replaced by Toadsworth or Perry, Peach's umbrella.
Point: Toad is a filler character and has no big roles.
CP: Toad was playable in SMB2, had a huge part in Mario Party, and was the main character for Wario's Woods.
Point: Geno is more deserving.
CP: Geno had only one big role in one game, and he may be 3rd party.
Point: But Geno was in SuperStar Saga.
CP: Toad was PLAYABLE in SuperStar Saga.
Point: There are too many Mario characters.
CP: The Mario series is the flagship series for Nintendo. Plus, Wario, DK, and maybe even Yoshi don't count as a Mario character.
Point: Why Toad? Why not Waluigi, Daisy, or Birdo?
CP: Toad was part of the 'big 8' and is the only character from Mario Kart 64 not to be in Smash yet.
Point: Toad isn't a fighter! He is a weakling!
CP: Toad was the strongest character in SMB2 out of Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad. In the game, he killed shy guys and other creatures.
Point: Just because he killed shy guys doesn't mean that he is a fighter.
CP: Other characters have not had a fighting backround before Smash either.
Point: Toad wouldn't have an original moveset.
CP: An example B moveset: B natural: Throw star. B left/right: Bazooka. B down: (Peach's move with shyguys and other things.) B up: Suprise from SMB3 (NOV. 10th edit: I never noticed, but he used one of my B moves! )
Point: Toad is way too small and light.
CP: It's called resizing. And, in Mario Kart 64, Yosh in Toad were in the same weight class. Yoshi is not the heaviest in Smash.
Point: Toad has an annoying voice.
CP: Use it to taunt your enemies.
Point: Why can't he be the tutorial guide?
CP: Toad fans want more than that. Toad deserves better than that..
Point: Toad sux.
CP: If you don't like him, don't play as him.


That sums up most things.

And thats my argument for Toad.
Symbol: Mushroom; Turnip?
Status: Overlooked hero
Would I bet money on him: Yes
Stage and/or BGM: The triumphant return of the Super Mario 2 stage, but with a hard rock, Jazz, or Techno remix version of the overworld theme.

MY MOVESET WAS A RESPONSE TO THIS MOVESET, POSTED IN "TOAD DISCUSSION"

Hmmm. It's good for a start, but there doesn't seem to be any moves that reference back to his games. How about:

B - Yours might work, but how about instead of restricting yourself to just a mushroom-based projectile, how about he randomly pulls out one of a selection of old Mario powerups. If he doesn't charge them enough, he throws the item like... well... and item, which can only be thrown by the enemy back at you for damage, but if he does, he equips the item and it maps to his neutral b. (Sort of like Kirby, except he takes from his own pool of moves and it requires him to charge) Items can be unequiped with the taunt button (In a way that looks like it's from Mario 3, where a white outline of the suit flies off of him) or by taking too much damage. Here are the suits, from common to rare:

Raccoon Toad: Gives Toad an extra jump, and causes him to be able to glide downwards slowly by holding the jump button. B attack causes him to swing the Raccoon tail. It acts like Mario's cape and reflects projectiles as well.

Tanuki Toad: Also gives Toad extra jumping skills. B attack causes him to turn into a statue briefely, making him invulnerable, much like Kirby's stone. Throws can still get to him. in the air, the statue will fall quickly, and cause damage, just like Kirby's.

Hammer Toad: Toad's jumps stay the same, but he has extra armor, so he becomes slightly heavier. B attack throws an arcing hammer that causes pretty good damage, but with low knockback.

Frog Toad: Toad's Jumps are insanely high, but he only has two, and his walking and running speed slow down cosiderably. Also, his B attack is a counter-move.

P-wing: Toad gets in the Raccoon toad costume, but he only gets two jumps. But now he can "true float" one of his jumps, like Peach. His B attack is the same as the Raccoon Toad one.

Kuribo's Shoe: Disables all A and B moves. Causes Toad to damage people by jumping on them, for very good damage. Is knocked out of this item by one enemy hit.


Bdown: Yours is a good move, but I still like the idea of Toad pulling things out of the ground. Maybe not turnips, but definately something. How about Mario 2 enemies. He pulls out Mario 2 enemies, that travel along the stage until they are killed, and they can do damage in their own way. He pulls them out and is able to throw them at the enemy. If he does not, then the enemy wanders along the stage like the AI in Mario 2, trying to kill something. From common to Rare:

Red/pink Shyguys: They simply walk back and forth along the stage. Red shyguys do more damage, but will walk off the stage to their doom. Pink shyguys will turn around when they come to a cliff, but are weaker and easier to kill.

Grey/Pink Snifits: They will follow the closest enemy and will shoot a slow-moving bullet if on the same plane as their target. Greys do more damage, but will walk off the stage. Pinks do less, but will turn around when a cliff comes up.

Tweeter: A hopping horse-like enemy. Will bounce around until it is killed or falls off a cliff. Does more damage than Red Shyguys.

Porcupo: Cannot be killed with A moves. If you try, it hurts you. You have to kill it with b moves. It will walk off the stage to it's doom.

Birdo: Pulls out the same Birdos from the Mushroom Kingdom 2 stage. treat accordingly.

Bob-omb: Self explanitory.


B side: A headbutt move is all well and good, but it sounds like a dash A. I say, how about a Mario Kart move? He pulls out a kart and drives foreward, much like Yoshi's Egg, and can turn around and keep going until someone does damage to him. He has to be careful of going off of the stage, of course, but thats to be expected.


Up B: Up B is a toughie. How about something like a high jump upwards (But not too high, this is Toad we're talking about) and on his descent, if he lands on any enemies heads, he'll bounce off, do damage and will be able to do his upB again, sort of like C. Falcon's attack.

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I'm not saying your moveset was bad, I'm just saying it didn't really inspire nostalgia as much as it perhaps should have.

LATER IT WAS AMMENDED BY ANOTHER POSTER IN A WAY I LOVED:

Maybe his up-B could start with him crouching, and you have to hold up and b until he starts glowing, then once you release, he jumps super high, sort of like how you could jump in SMB2.
Depending on how long you hold it, he'll jump higher. So instead of using your recovery move when near the edge, like with Mario or Kirby, you'll have to time it more.

KING DEDEDE

- King Dedede is the Penguin boss of Popstar, Kirby's planet. He is quite Greedy, and in his first appearance, he stole all the food from Dreamland. Though he is Greedy, he's really good at heart. During all the trouble in the NES game, what really was happening was that he sent out his troops and stole the star rod to protect anyone from the evil Nightmare that had posessed the fountain of dreams. When Kirby Defeated him and returned the star rod to the fountain, Nightmare attacked, and Kirby had to get Dedede's help to save Dreamland. In most of his other appearances, Dedede is almost always seen as a badguy only in a skin-deep, misguided sense, and turns out to have a heart of gold. Either that, or he gets posessed, which has happened a couple of times. I believe that Dedede would be a great choice. He has a Hammer, of course, but he also has the badguys you fight all the time at his beck and call. Also, Sakurai, and everyone on the polls loves him.
Symbol: Kirby star
Status: Villan with a heart of gold
Would I bet money on him: Yes
Stage and/or BGM: Dedede's boxing ring, complete with appropriate boss fight music (redone, of course, in an awesome way). If thats too similar to Lil Mac's stage, then how about just counting the fountain of Dreams as Dedede's stage and letting Kirby have the rest.

RIDLEY

-Ridley is the apparent leader of the space pirates who also happens to be a wicked space Dragon of a deep-purple color (Despite my pic.). He has been a thorn in Samus' side since Metroid , and in every appearance he gets scarier. They have perfected his screech in the GBA games, but he keeps getting bigger. Eh, that doesn't matter. He can shoot fire, and attack with his tail. see also: claws, wings, head. He can attack from numorous places, and on top of that he is one of the few recurring characters in the Metroid series, just in second place to Samus herself. I think he's a great choice, and he's the only other Metroid character I really care about besides Samus. (I could take or leave ZSSamus. In fact I would leave her if I could.)
Symbol: Screw Attack
Status: Evil leader of Space pirates; wicked purple dragon
Would I bet money on him: Yes
Stage and/or BGM: Perhaps a stage based on the Pirate mothership or Chozo Ruins in Metroid Zero Mission. Pirates could randomly sound the alarm and pop up to do some damage.

KRYSTAL

-Hailing from the Dead planet of Cerina, where the space animals are blue. She fulfills one thing that Starfox had been lacking since it's SNES debut. Sex appeal. I'm not saying i'd tap that, but there are a lot of weirdos out there. In addition, it added a layer of sexuality for Fox himself, now that he had a damsel to save. The fact that she's blue only adds to the awesome Captain Kirk feel of the whole adventure and turned him slightly away from that weird "Top Gun" latent homosexuality flying around the cockpits in Starfox SNES and Starfox 64 (Or maybe I dreamed that, I dunno). Unfortunately, thats all that game had going for it. SFadventue sucked, but Krystal was well recieved, and is, other than the graphics and character design, the only good thing about that game. She is an awesome character however, not content to be a damsel anymore, she joined up with Fox and the gang to fight in the Arwing battles, and there is even a love triangle going on between her, Fox, and a certain Starwolf Ladies man. Her appearance in Brawl should reflect her major role in SFAdv. Thus, Staff combat. Awesome.
Status: Fox's Lurve interest; Funky Blue Alien chick
Would I bet money on her: Yes
Stage and/or BGM: Sauria the Dinosaur planet. As much as I dislike the game, its useless to pretend it never existed. Appropriate Music is appreciated.

DUSTER

-Now we're talking. Duster is one of the characters you meet in the GBA game Mother 3, which is the sequel to the game we know as "Earthbound." Duster is a burgular, who uses his various tools of the trade, including "wall staples" (Aka portable ladder rungs), a siren beetle, a feather on a stick, a scary mask, and other things. His main mode of attack however, is kicking. Please note that on the world map, Duster has a severe limp, but in combat, he is a kicking machine, and , from my experience with the game, is at least a little undernieth, if not equel to Lucas in physical power. Now, about Lucas. I feel that if Lucas got into the game, they would feel compelled to take Ness out. This is unacceptable, as Ness is a childhood friend of mine. Lucas is but a recent aquaintence. Besides, Duster is so much cooler. At one point, he puts on an Afro wig and plays Bass guitar in Desperado Crush Mambo Combo, the Jazz-rock band found in Mother 3. Plus, Clark Gable moustache.
Symbol: Earth, just like with Ness
Status: Made of win and Clark Gable moustache.
Would I bet money on him: Sadly, No.
Why: There are perhaps other, more "well known" characters in the Mother series, including the guys from Mother 1, the other guys in Earthbound, and Lucas from Mother 3 (I just know you're gonna take out Ness, you *******s!)
Stage and/or BGM: New Pork City from M3 could basically take the place of Fourside in Melee, and you could keep Ness' stage (Onett) the same. DCMC music might make a good alt. track.
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duster_(Mother_3)

CAP. OLIMAR

-Captain Olimar is a delivery man from the Hocotate Freight company on the planet Hocotate. He was chugging along, on his way to his vacation, when he was struck by a rogue meteor and forced to crash-land on an uncharted planet, which closely resembles Earth. On the planet, he finds vegetation and insect-like creatures which tower stories above him (he only stands at about the size of a quarter). Help and solace come in the form of small creatures known as Pikmin, an almost disturbingly carnivorous race which are too small to really hunt for anything, so they are almost extinct. The Pikmin and Olimar form an Alliance and manage to scrape the parts for Olimar's Broken ship back into place before Olimar's air supply runs out (The planet's air is highly toxic oxygen, you see). Success is wrought, and Olimar leaves, leaving the Pikmin with the solidarity and numbers to take on any foe, and survive in this harsh ecosystem. That is, of course, the plot of Pikmin 1. Captain Olimar, star of two games, would be a Fantastic addition to Smash. His Pikmin alone would create many many opportunities for interesting movesets. Also, he is a Miyamoto brainchild, thought up while he was gardening. My favorite part is how much Olimar's story evokes some literary stories, like Gulliver's Travels (Esp. the Lilliput) and Robinson Crusoe (With about 500 his boy Fridays).
Symbol: Olimar's spaceship?; A Pikmin flower?
Status: Space captain and his pet plantlife
Would you bet money on him: Yes
Stage and/or BGM: Somewhere on the Pikmin planet, of course. You could see Bulborbs and giant trees in the backround.
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Olimar

A MOVESET INVOLVING PIKMIN, WHICH SPARKED A SMALL CONTROVERSEY IN IT'S ALLEGED "BROKEN" QUALITY: YOU CAN GO TO "CAPTAIN OLIMAR?" AND READ ALL ABOUT IT.

Why not? Here is my Moveset:

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Concept: Olimar uses the normal arrangement of punches and kicks for his A moves, but all of his B moves require the use of his Pikmin. At the beginning of battle, he will have one of each of the three main colors of Pikmin. If Olimar and the Pikmin "desync" like Nana and Popo(By Olimar getting too far away from the Pikmin, or by missing a B move that uses Pikmin), the Pikmin will stop trying to follow Olimar, and will turn pale. If enemies come near them, they will auto-attack. If they are near an Item, the Pikmin will try to pick it up and carry it towards you. Olimar can make the Pikmin follow him again by touching them or entering "Swarm" mode. Idle Pikmin cannot be used in B moves and do not influence your A-moves.

The best strategy would involve splitting up your pikmin, so that you have an effective team around you to buffer your A moves and to have ammo for your B moves, and then have a second team of Idle Pikmin to Auto attack enemies and to "Surprise Swarm" with. The Pikmin are quite expendable on large stages, as Olimar can always pick more, but on smaller stages, he has to be more careful to keep them alive. He would have a somewhat advanced playstyle, but it wouldn't be too hard figure him out.

You may notice the very low damage that Pikmin do by their lonesomes. That is because Pikmin are meant to be swarmed. 1 Pikmin doing 2% damage is lame, but 15 Pikmin doing 2% damage is 30% damage. Add in the fact that Pikmin attack over and over again, and the extra damage from Purples and whites, and five more Pikmin (For the Maximum of 20) and you have a very damaging attack set.

Neutral B: Pick Pikmin
Red(adds 1% to your A moves), Blue(Attack along with you, for 2% each. They attack every time you press A, and are more agressive in "Idle" mode.), Yellow(B moves are move effective when using Yellow Pikmin), White(Rare, When they are used in B moves, the enemy is afflicted with the "Flower" status, Like Lip's Stick.), or Purple (Stitchface-rare, adds 3% to your A moves, and will attack along with you for 4%. Will buffer B moves. If Purples attack an enemy, the enemy will incur "Falco's Blaster" Knockback). Max 20 Pikmin.
(When Kirby uses this move, Yellows and Whites will serve to buffer his other B moves, even if they do not use Pikmin. If Kirby uses his Up-B, he will Kill any Pikmin that get caught in the shockwave of the final cutter.)

Down B: Swarm
Olimar will Whistle and freeze as long as the button is held. The "Bugle call" noise will begin sounding and the Pikmin will begin jumping up and down. If you move the control stick while in "Swarm" mode, the Pikmin will swarm in that direction. If they catch up to an enemy, they will begin attacking them. Reds, Blues, and Whites do 2%. Purple does 4%. Yellow does 5%. Whites "poison" enemies. Causes all "idle" Pikmin to snap back to attention.

Foreward B: Pikmin Toss
Olimar will throw a Pikmin foreward. If they hit an enemy, they will "stick" to them until they are shaken off. Same damage as the swarm move, except that Yellow does only 3%, but deals damage faster than the others. If the Pikmin misses, he will enter "idle" mode.

Up B: Olimar Toss
All of your Pikmin get undernieth Olimar and toss him. The more Pikmin, the higher Olimar will go. Purple Pikmin will act like 5 normal pikmin, Olimar-toss wise. If they are saving Olimar from falling, like they probably are, they will most likly suicide to save Oli's life. Olimar's flying body does 1% of damage per pikmin that throws him with 2% for yellows, and 5% for Purples. On the ground, the Pikmin that tossed Olimar enter their pale "Idle" mode.

Super: Super Pikmin Swarm
The three Onions fly down and start divebombing the stage with Pikmin, who will begin to attack all the enemies for their usual damage. 100 Pikmin will appear, and only the main three colors will appear. Olimar can control the Pikmin (Use them in B moves, "Swarm" them) for the duration of the super. The 100 Pikmin will stay for about 20 seconds after the Onions leave before disappearing, leaving 20 fresh Pikmin for your use.

Taunt: Olimar lays down and relaxes for a moment. Any Pikmin under his command will pick him up and carry hm around for a while.

A LATER POST INVOLVES THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YELLOW PIKMIN AND ITEMS:

How about instead of coming with bombrocks, how about Yellows have the ability to pick up and either use or give Olimar items? Perhaps they can't pick up things like Bunny hoods and Heart containers, and the only thing they can do is throw, so the Yellow would only be able to throw laser guns, but not fire them. Then you can also give them their own special stats to balance them in matches without items.

If you look at my moveset, Pikmin can enter an "Idle" state, "Swarm" state, or an "Active" state. In Idle or Swarm, Pikmin automatically lock onto nearby enemies and begin to attack. Yellows could have the added programming of locking onto items and picking them up, then using them on nearby enemies (If they come near). Also, perhaps Yellows could catch items, but they are the only ones that can do so. If Peach hits any other color with a turnip, the Pikmin she hits will die, But if a yellow catches it, then it can throw it back at her once it enters Idle status, or once it enters "Swarm" mode.

Part of Olimar's anti-Peach game might be the extremely difficult manuver of throwing a Yellow pikmin to catch any turnips thrown in his direction.

Would that be overpowered? Maybe. Whould it be fun? Heck yes!

Well, alright. The fact that people don't use items is sort of a moot point but I'll concede that it could be sort of overpowered.

How about Yellows can't throw the items, but can pick them up and keep them away from enemies until they are killed and the item is up for grabs. This means that the pikmin is useless in combat however, thus, balance is achieved. Also, you could make it so that it takes something like 5-10 pikmin to pick up boxes. Heck doing that would make Olimar an extremely difficult character to manuver around during a raccaus FFA fight with Items on. He would be deadly in the hands of a master (Yellow-catching, Forced Pikmin item-drops) and useless in the hands of a noob(Half your squad going off unchecked to pick up some random box, Yellow-catching Bob-ombs or Link's bombs).

And the best part? none of the above matters, because items are probably going to be off in most fights after a while anyway.

No matter how you slice it, Olimar is an AWESOME idea for a character.

OUENDAN! OR ELITE BEAT AGENTS

-Holy Crap! Awesome. The Ouendan, and their American cousins, the Elite Beat Agents, are a team of three guys who help people through difficult task by dancing and cheering them on. Tasks include: Pottery, Fighting Giant Monsters, Contacting your Girlfriend from beyond the grave, and making tea. Elite Beat Activities include fighting a crippling fever, digging for Oil, Using your ninja powers to steal some plans, and Babysitting. The Ouendan/EBA would obviousely use any number of dance- and team-based moves. Since there are three of them, it could work as either a Ice-climbers+1 deal, or it could work more along the lines of the other two members(Saito, Suzuki/Derek, Morris) simply appearing to attack from behind the leader (Ryuta/Agent J). Either way would be awesome, because a fighter based on dance is never a bad thing. Look at Dee-jay(street fighter), and Anji-Mito(guilty Gear). Awesome.
Symbol: For the Ouendan: The Ouendan seal. As seen on Ryuta's armband in the picture. The Kanji stands for "Cheer."
For the EBA: A badge with a star on it. You can see it in the picture.
Status: A team of Male Cheerleaders.
Would you bet money on them: Sadly, no
Why: The Ouendan is, sadly, a Japan-only release, and EBA is similarly only available to the English-speaking world. To cross over through SSBB, though awesome, is pretty unlikely.
Stage and/or BGM: This is tricky. O!T!O! and EBA did not use original music for the most part. It used J-pop and set rythm patterns to it. The one song that could work is the one that plays over the credits, which is also the song to cheer by for the Guy trying to win the heart of a girl at a Japanese festival. Apparently, that song, though it was done by a J-pop artist, is billed as "the song from Ouendan" so it would be a good fit for whatever their stage is. What is their stage? The city they work in of course. Tokyo. Randomly the stage would be attacked by UFOs and giant Rat monsters, and the characters you cheer on would randomly run across the backround and yell at you. For the Elite Beat Agents, you could enter a BGM from their game, which would be a western song. Perhaps Jumpin' Jack Flash? For their stage, It could be the Alien concentration camp as seen in Without a Fight and JJF.
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouendan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Beat_Agents

THE OUENDAN GET A MOVESET MADEW OF SUMMON MOVES AND CRAZY POSES. FROM "OUENDAAAAAAAAAAN! SUPPORT THREAD:"

If anyone here has played Jojo's Bizarre Adventure for the Playstation, then you'll know what I'm talking about.

Okay, how's this for Ouendan's moves (The character should be named Ouendan, because that's the name of the team. The guys actually have names, but I digress) Most of the time you play as Ryuta. Most of the normal A moves, tilts, and Arials are normal, if a bit dance-y, A moves, But his Smashes and select other A moves summon either Saito or suzuki in to do an attack while Ryuta poses, then they disappear behind him. His B moves are similar, but they are much more flamboyant.

Neutral B: Osu! (Go!) - Works somewhat like Marth's Sword Dance. Ryuta calls Saito and Suzuki to the field (with a cry of "Osu!")and they stand to either side of him. As long as you press B to the rythm of the backround music of the stage (Faster songs = Harder, but more useful) the three of you will do cheers. You can be knocked out of it with a well placed low-blow to the legs, but any enemies trying to get at you from the air will fall to your flailing arms of justice, especially on stages with fast songs (Dream Land 64 anyone? DK Rap?). Essentially a different move for every song that plays in the game. (NOV. 10 EDIT: There should be "hit circles" that appear over their heads as they cheer. If you hit the button in the right rythm, the "hit" will register. It could also rate you on how close you got by dealing more damage for perfect hits.)

Side B: Tatakae! (Fight!) - Ryuta poses and says "Tatakae!", Saito appears in front of Ryuta and does a fast punching combonation. At low percentages, it is possible to be caught and hit by all ten punches. Ryuta is utterly vulnerable from the back.

Down B: Elite Beat strike - Ryuta poses. Saito and Suzuki appear on either side of him crouched low. They do breakdance moves similar to Sheik's Down B. Reflects Projectiles if they are struck correctly. Ryuta is utterly vulnerable from the air.

Up B: Ouendan! (Cheersquad) - Saito and Suzuki appear undernieth Ryuta and give him a boost upwards as he yells "Ouendaaaaaan!" He holds his arms out like superman and can cause damage with his flying body.

Taunt: Waddaya think they do? Ryuta poses and the other two pose around him. They all cry out "Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan!"

Super: The Ouendan begins to cheer and become invincible. Enemies within a set radius within the Ouendan recieve a huge Speed, Damage, Jump, and KO bonus for as long at the Ouendan cheers. The backround also grows Red and has Anime action lines to it. Also Enemies effected by the squad's cheering lose life every time they attack, like Pichu. The squad cheers for about ten seconds for every character effected, just enough time for the other characters to have done some hardcore damage to eachother. If no enemies are effected, the move is whiffed and the squad falls over. (Fun, huh? They use the enemies against eachother) Utterly useless in non-FFA, except to trick enemies into damaging themselves with their own attacks, or throwing them off and sending them off a cliff with the speed and jump boosts.

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These guys would be almost as fun as Phoenix Wright.

R.O.B. THE ROBOT

-R.O.B is a NES peripheral, designed for use with two games, Gyromite, and Stack-up. In Gyromite, ROB(with your help) has to help his creator, Professor Hector, to collect all the lit dynamite left by the rival scientist (and Player 2) Professor Vector. Stack-up is, as far as I know, a story-less puzzle game. ROB's main pull, however, is not from his games, but from his legacy. Rob has cameod on nearly every system since the SNES, and was even selectable and playable in Mario Kart, and Hector was sleep-walking on the top-screen of Tetris DS. This sort of devotion is something that is usually reserved for awesome in-jokes (Konami's Maui-head, which, BTW was a playable character in Dream Mix TV, where Snake was playable. Makes you think, huh?). I truly believe that ROB just might make the cut as the final secret WTF character.
Symbol: A Regular NES control Deck, seen from the front; a new symbol, inspired by Gyromite.
Status: Peripheral-turned-injoke
Would you bet money on him: Yes
Stage and/or BGM: An updated representation of Professor Hector's lab would be the best option.
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.O.B.

FIRST, A COUPLE CONCEPTUAL IDEAS: ORIGINALLY FROM "THE OFFICIAL R.O.B. FOR SSBB THREAD"

There are two games that used the ROB accessory. Gyromite and Stack-up. I've never played Stack-up, but Gyromite might be a good place to draw moves from.

Perhaps the character would work like this:

You would control Professor Hector (R.O.B's "Creator" in Gyromite and Stack-up, as seen in the loading screens for Tetris DS) and he would punch and kick and all that stuff, but he would have no B-moves of his own. all of his B moves would be to send commands to the ROB that follows him Ice Climbers style (In a curious switch from Gyromite, where you play as ROB, and Hector is the uncontrollable one), except possibly his UpB, which would be independant from ROB (So as to have a useful recovery move.).

Perhaps Rob would shadow you like Nana and hit enemies along with you, or perhaps he would just follow you around (and not be able to be hit).

Or perhaps, ROB is the controlled one, but he is shadowed by Professor Hector, who is presumably controlling Rob. The catch? ROB cannot be KO'd himself, but the good professor can. Rob is basically one big disjointed hitbox, and if Hector is KO'd you lose the stock, so it would be a double game of protecting the prof and KOing the enemy. Hector should be very light and fastfalling, just for balance sake, so even if you go up against a very good ROB, Hector can be knocked clean away with a few good hits. Would that be Broken, or just the opposite. I don't care, It sounds awesome is what it sounds like.

ROB THEN GOT A FULL MOVESET.

R.O.B the Robot (With Professor Hector)

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ROB is the controlled one, but he is shadowed by Professor Hector, who is presumably controlling Rob. The catch? ROB cannot be KO'd himself, but the good professor can. Rob is basically one big disjointed hitbox that can be knocked about, and if Hector is KO'd you lose the stock, so it would be a double game of protecting the prof and KOing the enemy. Hector should be very light and fastfalling, just for balance sake, so even if you go up against a very good ROB, Hector can be knocked clean away with a few good hits. Would that be Broken, or just the opposite? I don't care, It sounds awesome is what it sounds like.

Well, lets see. He could move his torso up and down, moves his arms in and out. and he could rotate his torso. That gives him "Punching" and headbutting attacks, as well as a set of flashy spinning smash attacks. Nintendo could probably articulate his arms a little more so he could move them up and down independantly of his body. To walk and jump, he could either have wheels, or he could hover.

-------------

For B moves, he could use other NES accessories:

B - Nintendo Zapper - Shoots a beam of light. moves as fast as Samus's charge shots, but are only about as strong as a little weaker than Samus's half-charged shots, and with much less KB.

Foreward B - NES controller - Throws a NES controller out. Touching the controller damages enemies, but the cord does nothing. If you hold down the button, you can brandish the controller around to try and hit enemies (Hopefully easier to control than Sheik's whip). If you smash the move, he might send out the entire NES, in a much slower and stronger attack. Hitting Rob can knock him out of this move.

Down B - Track n Field pad - Rob sets down a Track and Field pad. He can then just leave it there and continiue the fight normally. If an enemy steps on the pad, they will be stunned in a running animation for a few moments. three track pads can be set down at a time.

Up B - Power Glove - (This move would be for my ROB + Prof. Hector build where you lose a stock if Hector is KO'd) If you use this move, Hector will put on a power glove and fly towards you damaging anyone in his path. Unfortunately, Hector flies straight for you, so if there are any entironmental barriers, Hector will be caught behind them.

Super move: Stack-up blocks or Gyromite elevators will begin raining down from the sky.

Taunt: Hector sleepwalks for a few moments. Note: If he walks off a ledge, he will act as if he had air-dodged or used his third jump.

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LITTLE MAC

Those gloves are the wrong color.
-Little Mac, the little Rocky parody that could. Mac, with the help of Doc Louis (the Morgan Freeman role), trained to be the heavyweight champion. Mostly by running past the Statue of liberty in a pink sweatsuit while Doc Louis kept up on his bike. This little guy took on opponents literally triple his size, and went on to fight the reighning Champion Mike Tyson Mr. Dream. Later on, after Doc had died, he apparently bleached his hair, started taking eyedrops and steroids, and lost the undershirt in time for Super Punch out. Thats all well and good, but I'd rather see the little guy I grew up with, with the Green Boxing gloves and trunks, and the dark tank top and hair, and the scrawnier the better. As he is a Boxer, they would have the fun task of making up crazy punch-related skills for him. I think he'd work well.
Symbol: Boxing Glove?; A Championship Belt?
Status: Underdog boxer
Would you bet money on him: Yes
Stage and/or BGM: A Boxing ring and updated, classic music, preferably with as much screeching guitar as possible.
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Mac#Little_Mac

RED (Or any Pokemon trainer)

-Red (Or Leaf, May, Ruby, Brendan, Crystal, Ash, or what-have you) is the hero of the Pokemon games, he (Red specifically) is an 11 year-old-boy who has just gotten his pokemon training liscence, and has left home to become a Pokemon Master. His mentor, Professor Oak, also charged him with collecting all 150 (now 409) varieties of Pokemon, and file them in his Pokedex. His Rival Blue (Or Gary, depending on who you ask) is understandably a large obstacle in Red's quest, but in the end, Red defeats Blue, and becomes the Pokemon master he always dreamed of becoming, even taming the mighty Mewtwo. That is the essence of Red. The Method, of Red, however, is simple. He has access to any Pokemon he wants of the original 151, and can also use all of those tools you find outside of battle, like the fishing poles and Bycycles. I think that Red could make a compelling case for a character in Brawl.
Symbol: Pokeball
Status: the ACTUAL hero of Pokemon Red/Blue
Would you bet money on him: No
Why: Theres no precedent. They already set up the trend of filling out the role call with pokemon, not trainers. Red's chances are quite slim.
Stage and/or BGM: I dunno. How about the Indigo Plateau? That might make a cool stage, especially if the Elite four randomly attack you.

FIRST, SOME JUSTIFICATION: FROM " RED (THE TRAINER) FOR SSBB."

The tactician you play as in Fire Emblem is Marth. He's the main guy who is basically calling the shots. FE is a bad example for you to cite.

Playing as a pokemon trainer almost makes more sense than playing as a Pokemon. I mean, If we're looking at Fire Emblem, it's like playing as Random grunt characters, like Mia or Illya, from FEath of Radience (The only FE I'm familiar with). In the game Pokemon, you don't ever control a pokemon. You control a trainer, who issues commands to the Pokemon. The only reason Pokemon got into Smash before the trainer is because the monsters are so much more "visible" to the public eye than the trainers are. I personally happen to think it would be much MUCH more fulfilling and fun to play as a trainer than to play as the Pokemon, and you could even have both.

This thread suffers from Nancyism to the extreme. There is no reason why Red (or any main-character trainer) would'nt be a good idea for a character. They have moves and abilities (Pokemon, bikes, pokeballs, Safari zone rocks etc.), they are technically the main characters of their series, They would be no more rediculous than Princess Peach or Mr. G&W, and they would make perfect sense in the context of Smash.

The only concievable reason I can think of for not liking this idea is either the fear that with the trainer there can be no playable Pokemon (Which is utter BS. If Mario can simultaneousely exist as four separate players while one is dressed as a doctor, then the Pokemon Trainer can use Pokemon against other Pokemon) or just general Anti-Pokemon sentiment.

Red (Or Blue, Brendan, May, etc.) would make a good, solid character with an interesting playstyle, who would represent Pokemon in a different and refreshing way.

ALSO, CLICK THIS LINK. THE OP OF THIS THREAD IS MY HERO: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=83720&highlight=RED

SOME FURTHER RETALLIATION TO ANTI-RED CAMP, PLUS A LITTLE SPECULATION INTO HIS MOVES.

But thats the thing. If you include a pokemon, then all you would have is the specific moves that pokemon can have. Pikachu can only use lightening-based moves and physical attacks. Red on the other hand, has EVERY SINGLE pokemon, and thus every pokemon move at his disposal, you can have 4 different pokemon types in his B-moves alone. Add in his Fishing, Bicycle, and Pokeball-based moves, and you have one of the most unique movesets in smash since the inclusion of Mr. Game & Watch. If you want a pokemon, you can play as Pika, jiggly, or Mewtwo, but if you want their trainer, you can pick up Red, he gives us that choice (I would personally love to play as Red first).

Not to mention that Red is the main character of Red/Blue/Firered/Leafgreen, so he deserves the character slot in almost exactly the same way that Marth deserves the slot for being the main character in Fire Emblem 1.

I don't know what the hell the hang-up is about non-combative characters in Smash. We've had non-combative and "so useless they're useful" characters in fighting games for years. Capcom thought up Dan Hibiki in Street fighter Alpha and Norimaro in Marvel vs. Street fighter, and then buffed that by entering Roll and Servbot in MvC2, and then, over in Rival schools, we have the Chairperson, who learned martial arts through Dan Hibiki's corresponcence course. And in other games? well, In Bleach DS, the mascot character Kon(a tiny, stuffed lion), is playable, as well as Bonnie (A giant warthog), and Tatsuki (one of the main characters classmates). Even in Smash Bros. Melee we have Zelda (traditionally a non-combative character, unless you count the god awful CD-i versions), Captain Falcon (An F-zero racer), and Game & Watch (Who takes moves from things like cooking and other tasks). Even Peach is worth mentioning because she takes after her sports titles to a degree.

Red is the person you control with your controller, which should net him a slot right there. Also, Red IS combative in the same way that Fox is. Fox never got out of his ship to fight before SSB64, he always used his ship to shoot down enemy ships. Red uses his pokemon to fight enemy pokemon. The difference, of course, is that Red has the ability to actually use his pokemon in Smash Bros, so he could even be truer to his series than Fox currently is.

The argument that non-combative characters shouldn't be in Smash couldn't be more illogical.

I want Red before any more Pokemon. There, I said it.

NOW AN ACTUAL MOVESET. WITH MULTIPLE CHOICES! FROM "RED IN SSBB: PLEASE READ:"

Why do you assume he would use the pokemon's strongest forms outside of his super move?

How about instead of just having one move to summon a pokemon, all four of his moves summons a different pokemon.

^B - FLY - summons a bird (Lets say Pidgey or one of it's evolutions, since he is the first bird you meet) to fly him upwards. I know this is cliche and everyone does it, but thats because it's the logical move for this slot. In my vision, there is a downstroke that the bird performs. After flying you upwards (without damaging the opponent) he drops you (hopefully to safety) and flies, like a projectile diagonally towards the stage. Thats when he would do damage.

Neutral B - Best Friend - Summons one of the three starters at random (But only the unevolved forms). Red summons the pokemon by quickly tossing a pokeball (which, if it hits an enemy, will do Extremely weak physical damage, like Fox-laser damage, then bounce off and hit the ground). When the pokemon hits the ground, Bulbasaur, Squirtle, or Charmander will appear there. Once the pokemon is summoned, Red can then be controlled normally, and can run away to safety while his 'mon does the work. He cannot summon another starter pokemon until The starter is called back (which happens automatically after the pokemon's attack is done). He can still use FLY.

Blubasaur - uses Vine Whip which sends out two vines forewards and slightly diagonally up a set distance. the opponent has the chance to be caught by the vines if he stands too close to bulbasaur as he is firing the vines, similar to getting caught by Bowser's >B. "Caught" players are simply held for a few seconds, vulnerable, until Bulbasaur goes away.

Charmander - Uses Ember. This entails slapping his tail on the ground in front of him, and sending small fire-sparks along the ground, which are deceptively damaging, and slightly hard to see, but have little real knockback.

Squirtle - Uses Water gun. This entails firing a single, straight jet of water from his mouth. which has a fair bit of knockback, but little real damage.

>B - STRENGTH - Summons a Machop, or one of it's evolved forms. the same pokeball drill happens, as happens with the "Best friend" move. low damage pokeball. when it hits Ground, Machop appears. He will then charge forewards. Understandable, if he comes in contact with an enemy, he will deliver a physical attack and disappear. This has fair knockback, and pretty good damage, and might be a good KO move if you can use it well, but would also be a move to make your opponent jump out of the way and set him up for another attack.

VB - I sort of can't decide which move to put here, but I thought of a couple.

DIG - Summons a diglet, in the usual way. The Diglet will then dig downwards, then surface on another part of the arena, and throw damaging dirt clots every which way in a wide arc around itself for a few moments. Understandably much better on smaller stages, since Diglet comes up in random solid places. Also, if he is summoned on too-thin terrain to dig through, he will fall through and begin digging on the first solid terrain he encounters.

PAYDAY - Meowth (If you can stomach him being a move and not being a character) is summoned in the same way Pidgey is, meaning instantly. Red is also uncontrollable during this move, as he stands begind Meowth, cheering him on. Meowth sends coins flying in both directions. the move prolongs if you tap the B button, like DK's VB. The coins keep people from rushing in on you on the ground, and deflect (not reflect) physical projectiles, Energy projectiles, however, will cut straight through.
(NOV. 10 EDIT: If you truly can't stomach Meowth not being a character, you could put Koffing or Wheezing in this place.)

Super - Evolution!
This randomly summons the highest evolved forms of one of Red's starters. Meaning that Venusaur will send razor leaves flying round the arena, Charizard will fly upwards and send a fire blast into the arena, Blastoise will use Hydro Pump to summon jets of water screaming out of the ground.

OR

Super - Legendary!
This summons the three original legendary bird pokemon (Zapdos, Arcticuno, Moltres) to do an elemental tag-team attack on the stage.

There, special moves which don't seem too cheap, (they might be annoying though. On the other hand, I like annoying, I play Peach.) where he summons pokemon to do his dirty work.

P.S note on Red's moveset. I like that he has six pokemon within his normal B-moves. It's a nice nod to the original games.


ANDY

-Andy is a CO (Commanding Officer) in the Orange Star army (Known as Red Star in Japan. Understandably changed) He, along with his friends Max and Sami, are charged with pulling together the four war-torn counties in Macro-land (and later, Omega land) to fight the Nazi-like regime of the Black hole army. They did this twice in Macro land, and later also did it in Omega land, a neighboring colony, which was being sucked dry by evil dark crystals. Andy's role in the first two games was major, which qualified him for the title of "Main character" of the Advance Wars series, as well as the first American Nintendo Wars CO ever. He would fight with a very large wrench, and, as he was the only CO with healing powers, I imagine that would have something to do with his super attack. The sister series to Fire Emblem needs a representative.
Symbol: A Wrench?; A tank?; The Orange Star symbol?
Status: CO of the Orange Star Army; Brash youth
Would you bet money on him: Yes
Stage and/or BGM: Perhaps the Nintendo Wars "stage" would do well to take more from it's Gamecube cousin, Battalion Wars. A BW stage would be best accompanied by Andy's theme, of course.
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Advance_Wars_COs#Andy

WART

-My final 1st party pick. I choose Wart. He is the evil Frog warlord who took control of the dream land Subcon. Mario, with the help of Toad, Luigi, and Peach, took him down, and restored peace to the land. Later, Mario thought it was all a dream, but Wart later appeared in the dream island of Koholint in Zelda: Links awakening, where he taught Link an Ocarina tune. Wart is the third Mario Badguy ever (after DK and Bowser) and in the same way that Bowser shoots fire, Wart spews Bubbles. He might also have some other Frog-based attacks, and perhaps a nod to his Zelda-cameo. Even if you only consider him to be from Doki-Doki panic, He would still make a fine addition to Smash, even if just so he could fight Peach and Toad again.
Symbol: Mushroom; Turnip?
Status: Evil Overlord of Subcon
Would you bet money on him: Heck no
Why: Apparently, nobody liked Mario 2 (even though I think it's Brilliant) and technically, it is just a graphically enhanced port of Doki-doki panic. Oh well.
Stage and/or BGM: Wart's theme (Perhaps in an Epic "Fountain of Dreams" style) and Wart's throneroom. Updated to look and sound even more awesome!
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wart_(Nintendo)

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THIRD PARTY PICKS

The above still applies. Have fun with my list, as i'm sure that 90% of this board won't like it. I have taken some of Sakurai's comments to heart (only 1-2 more 3rd party chars) and given only two characters who could be in. The third is for fun, because he is an impossible addition.

PHOENIX WRIGHT (Ryuichi Naruhodo in Japan)

Company: Capcom
-Phoenix was a rookie defense attorney under the tuteledge of the incomperable Mia Fey, a great attourney in her own right. Phoenix's first case was a simple one. A murder, involving his long-time friend Larry Butz, who is also a notorious troublemaker, with very little skill with the ladies. After pulling out a victory, Phoenix was ecstatic. He had won his first case. Unfortunately, his troubles were just beginning. In the first game of Phoenix Wright: Ace Attourney, there are 5 cases (one case exclusive to the DS version.) where we meet the wacky cast of characters who inhabit this legal Bizarro world where lawyers are like rock stars and court conduct is very different from our system. Phoenix in Brawl would most certainly be one of the most hilarious things I could imagine. He would of course yell his exclaimations at his opponents for his special attacks ("Objection!" "Hold it!" and "Take That!") and for his super move, you could use the new "Phyche-lock" system that is introduced in the second game. This series is actually quite popular in Japan, and they are onto their fourth game. We are slowly catching up with the DS remakes, with one in stores and one in the works. All Phoenix Wright games are Nintendo Exclusive, By the way. To a creative mind, Phoenix would make for a great, and very fanservicy character.
Symbol: A sillouette of a pointing Phoenix wright
Status: Ace Attourney; That guy on the detective shows that you are led to underestimate, when he is really the one you should most watch out for, like Columbo.
Would I bet money on him: *sigh* no
Why: *grumbles* Megaman and Ryu. Capcom has so many characters much higher on the totem pole than Phoenix is. Stupid Megaman...
Stage/BGM: The courtroom, of course. The BGM is the PW "Battle" music (for when you have a witness on the ropes).
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Wright

MOVESET FROM "PHOENIX WRIGHT: DOES HE HAVE THE WRIGHT STUFF.":

I love Phoenix Wright... and I'm willing to repost my moveset for him here:

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My vision is that his A moves are all various pointing and anime-take moves. As he fights, he will make anyong who plays Phoenix Wright laugh.

His B-moves would, of course, be his "Lawyer Skills."

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B – “Hold it/Matta!” Counter - Phoenix points as a speech Balloon that says "Hold It" appears in front of him. Striking the "hold it" causes the enemy to by stunned. Phoenix will then be able to set the opponent up for combos.

Bup – “Objection/igiari!" - Phoenix jumps upwards while pointing upwards and yelling "Objection" The speech bubble flies upwards until it flies off the top of the screen. The Jump itself is medium-sized, like a Marth-jump. Only the speech-bubble can hurt.

Bdown – “Desk pound" - On the ground: He manifests a desk, which he pounds, knocking opponents away from himself. In the Air: He manifests the desk, sends it towards the ground, and slams it down, THEN he pounds for the added shockwave.

Bsmash – “Take That/Kurae!" - Phoenix throws a random piece of evidence from his briefcase (as the speech bubble appears over his head) They have different effects and arcs.
Subpoena: A weak piece of paper. about 4%. It travels in an upwards arc foreward.
Thinking Man Clock: A clock made in the shape of "the Thinker." Does about 10%. Travels in a heavy-handed downward arc.
Cell-phone: A pink cell-phone. about 7% damage. If it connects, Mia Fey's ghost continiues to attack for 5% per second.
Samurai Spear: A spear with duct tape around the shaft. High damage, but slow. about 15%.
Parrot: Yanni Yogi's Parrot. Travels up and down in a wave-beam type arc. about 13%.
Cracked Vase: A vase with a mysterious name written on the side. It breaks as it hits the ground or an enemy. the vase itself does about 10%, and the shards it leaves, if stepped on, do about 2%.
Motorbike: A large Pink motorbike. Rare, like stitchface turnips. does 30%, and has high knockback.

---------------

Super – “Psyche-Lock” - Large chains fling themselves across the stage and lock themselves towards the center of the stage.

Taunt - He scratches his chin, then does his classic Point and says "You're lying, and I can prove it."

-----------------

PACMAN

Company: Namco
-Pacman is, as you should know, a yellow circle that eats dots. If you agree with that last statement, you are WRONG! As you can see in my picture (The original cabinet-art for Pacman by the way) Pacman is a fully bipedal creature, with legs and arms, and though he does eat dots, he also eats Super dots, which transform him into Super Pacman. Pacman has multitudes of things he can do, just based on his first platformer, a tawdry little affair involving Hats (that came out before a certain Super Plumber had his first console foray), not to mention his SNES games, his GBA games, and his Gamecube games. You heard me! They still make Pacman games, and not just rehashes of the original either. Adventure games, Platformers, 3D platformers, Puzzlers, Pacman has done them all. In fact, he's raised an entire family, Boy, Baby, Mrs. and all. On top of that, he is the first character in video games, ever. He has not only history with Nintendo, but history with everything having to do with video games, ever.
Symbol: Oldschool "Pizza with a slice cut out" Pacman silouette
Status: A Ghost fightin' family man
Would I bet money on him: You bet I would!
Stage/BGM: Perhaps a full, 2 minute loop based on what little music there is in the original Pacman, or something from the newer games. Pacman's Maze might make a good Adventure stage. For Pac himself? I'd say that a stage based on the final boss fight with the Bubblegum monster in Pacman 2 for the SNES might be my pick.

I'M SURE I HAD A PACMAN MOVESET SOMEWHERE, BUT I CAN'T FIND IT. IF SOMEONE ELSE FINDS IT THEN THEY WIN MY INTERNETS.

PRINCE OF ALL COSMOS

Company: Namco
-One day, the King of all Cosmos was flying around, a bit drunk, when he had an accident. He knocked all the stars out of the sky, so now, he has to make some more. A smart man, he decided to consolidate the labor to one man, or boy. His son, the Prince, was charged with the task of using the royal Katamari balls (small balls with an extreme gravitational pull) to roll more stars into the sky. He rolls up everything on earth, from dominoes to rainbows, until he has replaced every star his father destroyed. Through all of that, his surprisingly abusive father is never satisfied with his work. In "We Love Katamari," the sequel, the Prince, now with the help of his cousins, must now roll up stars just to please the King's many fans and admirers. The Prince is probably my absolute favorite idea for a character, ever. Just the mechanic of using the Katamari ball as a weapon, to the idea of rolling the terrain up to make damaging stars appeals to me to no end, not to mention the fact that he could borrow his father's laser eyes. The underlying theme of mental abuse at childhood causing a self-purpetuating circle however (The King's father was never satisfied with him, thus the King is now hard on the Prince) is just icing on the cake.
Symbol: A Katamari Ball
Status: The Prince of all Cosmos; Lonely Rolling Star
Would I bet money on him: Sadly, No
Why: He's never been on a Nintendo console, and the guy who makes Katamari games went back to his first job, designing playgrounds for children. Those two facts make me sad, but, oh well, I still kept him on my list, after Pacman.
Stage/BGM: A Katamari cityscape. Square people wander around the backround and it is punctuated by the many crazy things that happen in KD and W<3K. Music? Duh. First track is the classic Katamari Damacy theme, while the alt. track is "Katamari on the Swing" from the sequel. But really, any song from the Katamari games would do amazingly well.
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katamari_Damacy#Characters

THE MOVESET FROM "BRAWL CHARACTER MOVESETS...":

Prince of All Cosmos –

-------------

He and the Katamari are basically inseperable.

I figure that he would walk around by rolling his Katamari around (But not rolling things up) and when he picks up items, they would be "rolled up" to be used with the A button. his A moves would be various attacks by swinging around his Katamari ball, or using it as leverage in punches and kicks.

He would be abut as tall as Kirby (Perhaps taller, though in his game he is only 5 centimeters tall) and his katamari would be slightly larger than himself. I even thought up B moves for him:

--------------

B – “Rolling star” As you hold down the B button, you will begin to pick up pieces of the scenery (It respawns after about 30 secs to a minute). If you get big enough, you can begin to roll up other characters (Escapable). When you release the button, the katamari will turn into a star and any characters caught in the explosion will take damage.

Bup – “Royal Rainbow” The Prince flies up on top of a Rainbow Katamari foreward. If he hits someone with the Katamari, they will take damage.

Bdown – “Laser Spanking” The prince shoots short-range eye lasers that stun, but have little KB. In the air they are aimed down.

Bsmash – “Charge Roll” A charging attack. The Prince will begin rolling the Katamari in place as the button is held. When the button is let go, he will charge foreward like Jigg’s rollout. He can, of course, change directions.

Super – “Father’s anger” The King appears and showers the stage with damaging lasers.

Taunt – The prince does a little jig as a highly Japanese accented voice clip resounds “C’mon Everybody” Like in the beginning of the song “Katamari on the Swing.”

-------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------

CHARACTERS I AM ONLY SO-SO ABOUT

For this section, I have decided to gather the characters who I think have a very good chance of getting in, or are very popular on these forums, and explaining why they don't excite me as much as the characters above.

GENO

McFox will have my head
Company: Square-Enix
-Yeah yeah! ***** at me all you want. The characters above excite me more than Geno ever will. I still like him, and I would be excited if he got in, but not so much as to say "OMG Geno 4 Br@wl LOLlerskates."
Symbol: Mushroom
Status: Little wooden Badass
bet money: Yes, but he's a long shot bet.
Why: He's owned by Square, and square might want other characters in before Geno.

LUCARIO or DEOXYS

Second Party
- Neat, a new legendary! Now which one gets in first? I dunno. Whichever. I still want a trainer more.
Symbol: Pokeball
Statuses:
Lucario: I like shorts, they're delightfully comfy and easy to wear
Deoxys: I'm just a Mewtwo without the backstory!
Bet money: Yeah, sure.

DIDDY KONG

First Party
-No Brainer. Luigi got in, Falco got in. Now it's DK's turn to have his sidekick back him up. Hope you like the picture. I found it on Google.
Symbol: Same as DK
Status: Everyone else thinks he'll get in, and so do I
bet money: Yes

-----------------------------

And there you are. Stay Frosty.

-----------------------------

Continuations:

Carmen Sandiego, Amaterasu(Okami), and Dan Hibiki(Street Fighter Alpha): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=1812208&postcount=74
Alexandra Roivas(Eternal Darkness):
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=1872239&postcount=77

 

[xianfeng]

I like it, one of the more original lists

 

[Iggy K]

This was a very good list ...!, and I really like that Toad pic. One thing though, Ganondorf should be completeley uniqe instead of just Luigified.

 

[McFox]

Excellent. I don't fault you for putting Geno so low (although it is, of course, a mistake ). A great list, and unlike a lot of them we're starting to get, it was a very interesting read as well.

I need to play Phoenix Wright...

 

[dotdotdot!]

Excellent. I don't fault you for putting Geno so low (although it is, of course, a mistake ). A great list, and unlike a lot of them we're starting to get, it was a very interesting read as well.

I need to play Phoenix Wright...

Yes you do.

I'm glad my list is so well-recieved so far. It's kinda weird.

 

[Bowserlick]

A very fun read. I can't believe the Prince of Cosmos cannot be in Brawl, you made him sound like such a wacky, fun, out there character. You tease!

The Phoenix Wright character also sounds neat, but I am gunning for Megaman or Simon Belmont. Does the whole game take place in court?

Diddy and Geno are characters I expect to get in and would be pleased if that were the case, but not a must have choice.

Duster's picture scares me.

 

[dotdotdot!]

A very fun read. I can't believe the Prince of Cosmos cannot be in Brawl, you made him sound like such a wacky, fun, out there character. You tease!

The Phoenix Wright character also sounds neat, but I am gunning for Megaman or Simon Belmont. Does the whole game take place in court?

Diddy and Geno are characters I expect to get in and would be pleased if that were the case, but not a must have choice.

Duster's picture scares me.

PW:AA takes place 50% in the courtroom and 50% in point n Click segments of Phoenix wandering around the city gathering info and evidence to use in the trial. The Trial segmenst are really the best though. I won't lie to you. It's a rather easy game, but when you figure out which piece of evidence to use on your own, it feels pretty good.

 

[greenblob]

Nice list. Those are the best (IMO, but not necessarily the most likely) third party characters I've seen in a list like this.
I'm all-in for having all the returning clones be completely revamped instead of just "Luigified," but mainly because I don't like the arguements people are using for luigifying certain clones and removing others.

 

[Bowserlick]

Gannondorf in wind waker was awesome. I enjoyed the fact that he actually matured with age, even though he was still stealing little girls and being bent on obtaining Hyrule. And the boss battle was amazing. I would like to see a realistic version of the elder Gannondorf who incorporates his swordplay with dark sorcery.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Yes you do.

I'm glad my list is so well-recieved so far. It's kinda weird.

I know, I though my list was going to flop, but it all turne dout ok

This list is awesome

Prince of All Cosmos FTW!

 

[Stryks]

LOl that diddy kong image was awesome! lol I agree with MOST of the characters, just not red... I hate the guy...

 

[notftomearth7]

Heh Wart!
That's a new one

I pretty much agree with everyone on that list (I've never played Phoenix Right and I I'm Iffy bout Toad) But yeah! Good Job

 

[Stryks]

Forgot to mention I rather have MM over Pheonix wright, also the original Ganondorf from OoT is better, I dont want fat ganondorf XD...

 

[saberhof]

I dont want fat ganondorf XD...

I second that. totaly. the swords are really good. but fat ganondorf just doesnt look good.

 

[PhantomEdge]

dude that was a very well-thought out list, that pic of diddy kong was fricken hilarious!

 

[icymatt]

Good stuff, Dotz. I agree that (if human G'dorf isn't in Twilight) Ganondorf should look like his WW design(only done in the current graphical style). I really like that look, plus the twin swords are neat. However, 'Luigification' is too soft. Ganondorf needs a complete overhaul(with the exception that he should stay a beatstick.)

 

[McFox]

That guy who did Diddy Kong is awesome. His name's Darren Calvert.

Kremling

Bullet Bill

Funky Kong

(One of my favorites,) Belome, from Mario RPG.

Mallow, also Mario RPG. It's a shame he didn't do Geno.

Shy Guy

Donkey Kong

Goomba and Koopa Troopa

A (not the) Toad

Zelda

Samus

So yeah, check out his website if you like his artwork. He has a lot more than just video game art.

 

[Stryks]

WOW! Those images pwn!!

 

[Zodiak-Lucien]

his artwork is really unique in terms of fanart because he added a reality twist to it. I sent him an email asking how much a geno picture would cost

 

[dotdotdot!]

Wow. I just kinda found the picture on Google image search and went *yoink.* I guess I should really pay attention so things like that.

Edit: DUDE! He gave Michalangelo a tongue piercing! This guy is my favorite fanartist ever!

 

[bbb]

Deoxys: I'm just a Mewtwo without the backstory!

That's all I needed to hear to know this list wins!

Edit: Is that Belome?!?! ****in' awesome!

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

Not a bad list. Aside from the lack of Sonic (and Hitmonlee), I see nothing wrong with it. You got a few new characters that are guarenteed slots, a few old school that have a good chance, a few obsurd ones that might possibly luck their way into the game, and even some that have no chance in the world.

I am so tempted to try one of these lists myself. In fact, I think I will.


BTW: That Koopa picture is an instant win!

 

[GaryCXJk]

Just when I thought this forum couildn't get any lower, this topic raised it up a notch. Good work on the list, especially because you argumented your opinions. Not that I agree with all, but at least they are well-argumented. Some have a fairly chance to be seen in Brawl, too.

 

[Moonless]

Hooray for Phoenix Wright! He's my second most anticipated character for Brawl. He's super famous in Japan (even having his own manga), and everyone in America or Europe who has played Ace Attorney loves the game, it is somewhat of a cult classic already. Also, I believe the designer Atsushi Inaba and producer Shinji Mikami both like Nintendo. Naruhodou is almost a Nintendo character, and he deserves to appear in Brawl, playable or not.
I also love the idea of Ouendan characters, Japan-only or not. Imagine someone, who never knew about Ouendan, choosing the character for having a trench-coat-like uniform and super cool pose, only to find out he dances people to death.
I'd rather have Sami than Andy, but the latter is much more likely, along with Jake. I don't mind, I'm happy as long as Advance Wars (not just Famicom Wars) gets the attention it deserves.

Great list, ...!!

 

[MAtgSy]

A (not the) Toad

There is no the Toad & there never was 1. Contrary to what some non-canon sources may say, Toad has always been a race & never an individual. Same goes to Yoshi, Koopa Troopa & Pikachu.

 

[saberhof]

There is no the Toad & there never was 1. Contrary to what some non-canon sources may say, Toad has always been a race & never an individual. Same goes to Yoshi, Koopa Troopa & Pikachu.

yea but thats how we recogdnize em all..

 

[McFox]

There is no the Toad & there never was 1. Contrary to what some non-canon sources may say, Toad has always been a race & never an individual. Same goes to Yoshi, Koopa Troopa & Pikachu.

Care to give any actual proof to this fairly ridiculous idea?

That's THE Toad, and you'd have to have some PRETTY compelling evidence to convince me otherwise.

*EDIT* Sorry to flood your topic with more images dot.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Those images of Shy Guy, Kopa, and Goomba look like they should be from an American McGee game

 

[dotdotdot!]

American McGee's Super Mario Bros. 2...

Oh man...

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

American McGee's Super Mario Bros. 2...

Oh man...

That should totally happen. World Wide best seller

 

[applejack]

I want to see some more characters from fire emblem. I spent about 60 hours on the first one in america, 40 hours on sacred stones on sacred stones and 60 on PoR. they could have Lyn or Hector or Eliwood(Roy's dad i think) or elincia or Ike(who was Ike's dad again? he would be fun to play as) or maybe mrryh from sacred stones, but that might be an advantge. I was very surprised diddy kong wasn't in melee, he deserves some respect! as for ganandorf Wind Waker's was cool but he wasn't as cool looking or evil as he was in OoT, maybe if he lost some weight though.( I didn't have much fun in the final fight either zelda kept shooting me with those arrows!)

 

[dotdotdot!]

I want to see some more characters from fire emblem. I spent about 60 hours on the first one in america, 40 hours on sacred stones on sacred stones and 60 on PoR. they could have Lyn or Hector or Eliwood(Roy's dad i think) or elincia or Ike(who was Ike's dad again? he would be fun to play as) or maybe mrryh from sacred stones, but that might be an advantge. I was very surprised diddy kong wasn't in melee, he deserves some respect! as for ganandorf Wind Waker's was cool but he wasn't as cool looking or evil as he was in OoT, maybe if he lost some weight though.( I didn't have much fun in the final fight either zelda kept shooting me with those arrows!)

My problem with fire emblem is that, though I have played Path of Ruin, and I loved every minute of it, I had no way of knowing whether the game was all that important in the overall scheme of Fire Emblem. I know that Marth is the first lord, and that he is fairly indespensible, and I know that Roy is fairly expendable, but other than that, there are few other FE characters I know. You can't easily let in one of the 200 minor characters from the games, but most of the lords seem to play very similarly to Marth or Roy (Not that thats an automatic disqualifier). I simply don't know enough about FE to insert a character with an informed opinion. Insert your own.

As for WW Gannondorf. He just appealed to me. He was quite active in his evil, I think his look was perfect (Thats not fat, it's pure Muscle, baby), having him look older really underlined a major point in Wind Waker about letting go of the past(Gannondorf, King of Red Lions) and embracing the present and future(Link, Zelda). Plus, he's about, what? 900 years old? Just from OOT to WW, there would have to be enough time for the planet's climate and land-to-water ratio to drastically change, not to mention enough time for the "Hero of Light" to pass into legend and become folklore. I think a little bit of a receding hairline is understandable.

 

[applejack]

In fire emblem for the gba Lyn was very fast and when she went from lord to blade lord she could also use a bow (which would make her very fun to play against Link). Hector had a high str and def and used an axe and eventually a sword. Isn't the next fire emblem game going to be a sequel to PoR? I think that makes it a little different in the series(I'm sorry if I sound kind of mean I just really like the games and characters, as I assume you like Wind Waker, so please take no offense). The final fight against ganon wasn't as good as it was in OoT. once I beat it I didn't play it again, and in OoT I played it many times after beating it. but I wouldn't mind Ganondorf either way as long as they give him some unique moves and not a C.F clone.

 

[dotdotdot!]

In fire emblem for the gba Lyn was very fast and when she went from lord to blade lord she could also use a bow (which would make her very fun to play against Link). Hector had a high str and def and used an axe and eventually a sword. Isn't the next fire emblem game going to be a sequel to PoR? I think that makes it a little different in the series(I'm sorry if I sound kind of mean I just really like the games and characters, as I assume you like Wind Waker, so please take no offense). The final fight against ganon wasn't as good as it was in OoT. once I beat it I didn't play it again, and in OoT I played it many times after beating it. but I wouldn't mind Ganondorf either way as long as they give him some unique moves and not a C.F clone.

Well, thats where we differ. I've got a memory card with a save set just before the final fight with G-dorf in WW just so I can fight him whenever I want. I also happen to think that the sword combat system in WW is fan-freakin-tastic, and I only hope that TP takes from it. That final boss fight is just the best thing they could have done to feature the sword combat of WW.

 

[applejack]

Well, thats where we differ. I've got a memory card with a save set just before the final fight with G-dorf in WW just so I can fight him whenever I want. I also happen to think that the sword combat system in WW is fan-freakin-tastic, and I only hope that TP takes from it. That final boss fight is just the best thing they could have done to feature the sword combat of WW.

The thing I liked about the OoT fight wasn't just the way you fought it was also why. In that game Ganon destroyed your world, created all the redeads to scare the ___ out of you (sure they were in WW too but I couldn't really take them seriously they had cone-heads!) and plunged the world into darkness. In when you fought him it was very epic. So let's comprimise, OoT Ganon with WW style fighting? how does that sound? just so you know I do love WW but OoT just seemed "bigger". Oh and FIRE EMBLEM.

 

[dotdotdot!]

The thing I liked about the OoT fight wasn't just the way you fought it was also why. In that game Ganon destroyed your world, created all the redeads to scare the ___ out of you (sure they were in WW too but I couldn't really take them seriously they had cone-heads!) and plunged the world into darkness. In when you fought him it was very epic. So let's comprimise, OoT Ganon with WW style fighting? how does that sound? just so you know I do love WW but OoT just seemed "bigger". Oh and FIRE EMBLEM.

Poor Wind Waker... sabotaged by it's own Cel-shaded artistic vision.

Ganon in WW did just as much to destroy the world as OoT ganondorf did. In fact, WW ganondorf destroyed it even harder, and now he's working on the last dregs of Hylian society. The fight with G-dorf over the slowly flooding Hyrule was very epic, and was accompanied by a speech to explain G-dorf's twisted vision of the world. The fact is, the WW fight was so cool because, in effect, Link had already won. By the time the fight got started, Hyrule was flooding and Ganon's plans were up in smoke, so the reason for the fight was completely different from other times in other games. Link was no longer fighting for the safety of his world, he was fighting for sheer survival, and G-dorf wasn't fighting for the ensurance of his master plan, but for vengence and cruelty. The final blow is so Brutal and unexpected that the first time you play it, you gasp at it in surprise, and it flows so brilliantly from the combat that you almost don't know it's a cinema at first. OoT is brilliant in it's own way, but the final boss is just a final boss. In WW, the final boss sequence has a beginning, a middle, and an ending and is completely distinguished from most other final bosses, especially those found in Zelda games.

And that, along with actively loving his look, and his overall personality, is why I love Wind Waker Gannondorf, and would love to see him incorporated into Brawl's Gannondorf character design. Also, Flooding Hyrule stage!

 

[GaryCXJk]

Super Mario Bros. Super Show! was never canon to begin with.

 

[McFox]

Meh, my point is still valid.

 

[applejack]

Poor Wind Waker... sabotaged by it's own Cel-shaded artistic vision.

Ganon in WW did just as much to destroy the world as OoT ganondorf did. In fact, WW ganondorf destroyed it even harder, and now he's working on the last dregs of Hylian society. The fight with G-dorf over the slowly flooding Hyrule was very epic, and was accompanied by a speech to explain G-dorf's twisted vision of the world. The fact is, the WW fight was so cool because, in effect, Link had already won. By the time the fight got started, Hyrule was flooding and Ganon's plans were up in smoke, so the reason for the fight was completely different from other times in other games. Link was no longer fighting for the safety of his world, he was fighting for sheer survival, and G-dorf wasn't fighting for the ensurance of his master plan, but for vengence and cruelty. The final blow is so Brutal and unexpected that the first time you play it, you gasp at it in surprise, and it flows so brilliantly from the combat that you almost don't know it's a cinema at first. OoT is brilliant in it's own way, but the final boss is just a final boss. In WW, the final boss sequence has a beginning, a middle, and an ending and is completely distinguished from most other final bosses, especially those found in Zelda games.

And that, along with actively loving his look, and his overall personality, is why I love Wind Waker Gannondorf, and would love to see him incorporated into Brawl's Gannondorf character design. Also, Flooding Hyrule stage!

I did love the cel-shaded look of wind waker, especially the water, but for intimidation purposes OoT's ganon was better. He was tall, strong looking, and had the armor, not the robe thing, that made him seem like a dark knight plus with his big sword, which hopefully makes Brawl this time, just worked. I admit Flooding Hyrule stage would be awesome, but if they did it in WW's graphic style it would be very different than the characters and if they change it then it won't be the same (and the same was very good but its hard to put into other games because it is so unique). Plus for the majority of WW all Link tries to do is save his sister. but maybe there will be a new ganon in TP that is better than both. they're using it's link and I hope they use it's Zelda.

Would you rather have WW Link or OoT Link? or WW Zelda against OoT Zelda?

 

[dotdotdot!]

Would you rather have WW Link or OoT Link? or WW Zelda against OoT Zelda?

I'd like the OoT/TP versions of those characters, But I would like WW Gannondorf over OoT Gannondorf. Game Consistency is not something that Smash considers necessary. Peach is mostly from Mario 2, while Mario is based heavily on 64 and "traditional sidescroller" appearances, while Luigi's fireball seems partially based on the fireball from the first Gameboy game. Even Link, while his look is definately mostly OoT, many of his movements are more based on Zelda 2 on the NES. WW is, so far, my favorite (as I'm sure you realize) Gannondorf, while OoT has my favorite Link.

You are allowed to have differing visions of characters from the same series.