Social Roy Social - R O Y B O Y Z

[CrimsonRick117]

tfw> you have no idea about FE, but you love the characters XD.

 

[The Merc]

You know, all this talk of Fe6 makes we want to play it, but i don't. Feels really illegal and makes me uncomfortable...

Hmm... LancerStaff should really know better... although this wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened. I'd be more inclined to hit him if I saw something similar again or he continued it further...

In FE6 I always had to use Fir, Sue, Lugh, Ray; and also Clarine and Lilina.
Always was a masochist and the intergame stories (Lugh and Ray >_< in particular) were too much not to honour.
It meant a lot to me to have Sue and Fir 'grow', and for Lugh and Ray to be the forefront of the 'good end'.

In terms of the original drama 'argument'.
Roy is perhaps low tier. Let me try to justify this logically for a second
we have 58 characters; the median of that is 29.
When we think about 'middle tier', that would mean characters on a similar 'power level' to the 25th-35th characters are middle tier.
Now 29 characters seems like a lot, but for many people they could probably list that many characters they think are stronger than Roy. Personally I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if through my being as fair as possible, Roy would have 30 characters ahead of him.

Does that mean Roy sucks? Not even in the slightest.
But his difficulty is extreme. I genuinely think he is one of the most difficult characters in the game to maximise his efficiency with and control and on top of that he has glaring weaknesses that also are very difficult to circumvent.
But let me hence highlight the idea of 'difficulty', I'm sure nearly everyone who's put time and effort into Roy knows he is difficult. If a character can achieve similar things to Roy but is drastically easier to do so (I think a fair example would be Falcon), I would personally not think they should be considered similar in power.

Tier lists can be many many things. But in a really well balanced game like Smash4, I believe we're going to be looking at tournament representation, match ups, capabilities and their difficulty for determining who goes above who. His capabilities are strong, his match ups and difficulty are not his selling point; and our tournament representation reflects this.

As I've said in rants of the past; love your character, know that he can achieve great things but it's likely NEVER going to be easy, even with a developed meta.

How do you guys have such wisdom?

I feel so stupid in comparison.....

I literally know nothing about about anything.

Thought i'd say this in a separate post but apart of my general movement skills and my notion of Roy playing like a hyper Brawl Marth -
Something which has been nagging me for a while was how 'poor' he seemed to be able to dash forward and jump retreating aerials, a staple aggressive mid range technique for Marth and something I consciously go for as Roy a lot.

Basically, it's a quirk of the engine. If you're dashing forward and jump backwards, your aerial mobility will be stunted. This sucks actually, a lot.
It's just particularly noticeable on Roy because he has poor aerial deceleration and he also has insane dash speed and high max aerial mobility.

So to me, that means that if you dash towards someone, jump backwards trying to do a well spaced fair on someone's shield, you're going about half the distance in your jump horizontally than you would if you were standing neutral before hand (or if you jumped in the same direction as your dash).

As obvious as it's been all this time I haven't really thought about it and it means I have something to think about in terms of adjusting my movement and aggressive pressure (I love mah aggressive pressure~).

You can circumvent this in a few ways.
Pivot jumping (raring), even though you're moving forward during jump squat, you'll be retreating a lot more.
Unfortunately this relegates us to back airing (maybe uairing), which just isn't as long ranged or safe as forward air (nor can be spaced horizontally quite far and still sweet spot for great shield push back). Despite that, tipper bair at -9 on shield and retreating TWICE AS MUCH is likely a lot better than tipper fairs -7 while barely retreating at all.

However, you could still fair (or nair) and still retreat a good amount facing the right direction, but you'll be needing to use the dash dance window (so after the first fox trot) to start dashing away, and then pivot jump/rar and then you can fair towards your opponent while retreating at max aerial mobility.
Honestly it would be quite telegraphed doing this all the time, but as a general movement mix up (I like my dash dancing shindigs after fox trots) it could very well be helfpul.

And the other option is, fox trot then retreating jump.
If you weren't aware, when you fox trot and don't keep the stick held in any position you'll be able to act 'freely' at it's end, including jabbing or smashing
I do this a lot on ZSS actually (fox trot forward into down smash, bueno~), and up until this point I hadn't really actively tried this as Roy because I thought fox trot dancing stuff would be better. But reality is you can fox trot and down tilt, or fox trot and do a retreating jump with full aerial mobility.
Practice this by first doing a fox trot and then trying to jab out of it, if you hit attack too early you'll dash attack, otherwise you'll dash forward and then jab. With this same timing you can time a jump and hold backwards at the same time and do a max aerial mobility retreating jump.

Another tidbit is that every character has (at least) two fox trot lengths, a light dash press and a slighter longer one will have the latter be roughly 1/3rd longer. So there is some spacing variation there available.

Like this. I barely understand half of it....

 

[Shaya]

I try my best to make sense, @_@
I'm not great at it lol.

Visual representations would be better but the main subject of that post can be seen by

1. Pick Roy
2. Stand still: Jump holding backwards, see how far you can go!?
3. Dash forward, jump holding backwards, see how you go no where? THIS SUCKS

Retreating aerials out of a dash is a mid-range game play staple. Gotta make it work, somehow.
Actually, I have a fourth option/edit to make to that post.

 

[EnGarde]

I try my best to make sense, @_@
I'm not great at it lol.

Visual representations would be better but the main subject of that post can be seen by

1. Pick Roy
2. Stand still: Jump holding backwards, see how far you can go!?
3. Dash forward, jump holding backwards, see how you go no where? THIS SUCKS

Retreating aerials out of a dash is a mid-range game play staple. Gotta make it work, somehow.
Actually, I have a fourth option/edit to make to that post.

I'm not sure what you mean. x.x

A standard backwards (and forwards, coincidentally) jump for Roy covers roughly 7 planks on omega Pirate Ship. A dash forwards backwards jump, I would say I got roughly 6-7 planks of distance travelled on omega Pirate Ship.

Comparing that to Pit (chosen because he is my loved if underused secondary, and bottom 10 in airspeed). His standard backwards / forwards jump travels roughly 5 planks on omega Pirate ship. His dash forwards backwards jump went similarly 4-5 planks.

Compare that to Jiggs (chosen because slow dash speed, high airspeed). Her standard backwards / forwards jump travels roughly 10 planks on omega Pirate Ship. Her dash forwards backwards jump covered roughly 9-10 planks on omega Pirate Ship.

I'm pretty sure the distance covered on both a forwards and backwards jump on all characters is pretty much exactly the same, regardless of whether they start from a dash or not. x.x Is there a character I should be testing with separately to see different results?

 

[Shaya]

Are you still technically dashing forward when you jump?

How I often (not always, but I get this same interaction whichever way) do jump retreating aerials is essentially half circling (forward, then circling up and to behind me for a retreating jump) and then c-sticking an aerial

But I think if you're holding forward, press jump and then immediately flick back, you'll get a stunted retreating jump. In contrast if you've let go of the stick when you jump and then hold backwards you shouldn't experience this (i.e. you should've probably started your dash end animation).
Most characters have different animations for jumping forward and backwards (not too noticeable on Roy, but you're leaning back), so you'll be seeing a backwards jump animation.

On Roy, the difference is very noticeable.
You're losing half the distance you'd travel in the air.
For ZSS you're losing about a fifth of your total distance traveled, it's extremely negligible.

In hindsight, this isn't something you would probably think too much of unless you tried it in Brawl, where the same action wouldn't inhibit your aerial mobility. While without that background, thinking "letting go of the stick before jumping so I can achieve good mobility" makes sense ~_~

 

[EnGarde]

Are you still technically dashing forward when you jump?

How I often (not always, but I get this same interaction whichever way) do jump retreating aerials is essentially half circling (forward, then circling up and to behind me for a retreating jump) and then c-sticking an aerial

But I think if you're holding forward, press jump and then immediately flick back, you'll get a stunted retreating jump. In contrast if you've let go of the stick when you jump and then hold backwards you shouldn't experience this (i.e. you should've probably started your dash end animation).
Most characters have different animations for jumping forward and backwards (not too noticeable on Roy, but you're leaning back), so you'll be seeing a backwards jump animation.

On Roy, the difference is very noticeable.
You're losing half the distance you'd travel in the air.
For ZSS you're losing about a fifth of your total distance traveled, it's extremely negligible.

In hindsight, this isn't something you would probably think too much of unless you tried it in Brawl, where the same action wouldn't inhibit your aerial mobility. While without that background, thinking "letting go of the stick before jumping so I can achieve good mobility" makes sense ~_~

There are 3 types of grounded jumps in this game: forwards, neutral, and backwards jumps. Forwards and backwards jumps have a starting acceleration, neutral jump does not. Doing a dash forwards, backwards jump has the same starting momentum as a standing backwards jump. Are you comparing dash forwards neutral jump instead? Do you continuously hold in the direction on your control stick while drifting away? That's why tilt stick aerials are good with Roy with retreating fairs, only 1 conflicting frame of speed loss due to inputting the fair, and you can hold consistently in the other direction the whole time.

This match isn't a good example of much, just a derpy match I recorded because wynaut, but here you can clearly see a dash forwards retreating fair that still moves Roy a pretty fair distance back. (heh)

EDIT: after derping in training mode, there may be only 2 types of jumps, forwards and backwards jumps, with holding forwards during the jumpsquat giving you forwards momentum and not doing so giving you no momentum. There is a distinct animation difference between forwards and backwards jumps which I'm not sure I see between "neutral" and forwards jumps.

 

[Jiom]

There are 3 types of grounded jumps in this game: forwards, neutral, and backwards jumps. Forwards and backwards jumps have a starting acceleration, neutral jump does not. Doing a dash forwards, backwards jump has the same starting momentum as a standing backwards jump. Are you comparing dash forwards neutral jump instead? Do you continuously hold in the direction on your control stick while drifting away? That's why tilt stick aerials are good with Roy with retreating fairs, only 1 conflicting frame of speed loss due to inputting the fair, and you can hold consistently in the other direction the whole time.

This match isn't a good example of much, just a derpy match I recorded because wynaut, but here you can clearly see a dash forwards retreating fair that still moves Roy a pretty fair distance back. (heh)

EDIT: after derping in training mode, there may be only 2 types of jumps, forwards and backwards jumps, with holding forwards during the jumpsquat giving you forwards momentum and not doing so giving you no momentum. There is a distinct animation difference between forwards and backwards jumps which I'm not sure I see between "neutral" and forwards jumps.

Yes, neutral jump is same animation as jumping and holding forward. I messed with it a bit too and it just seems if you're timing isn't correct you won't get as much of a drift. Pretty useful to know imo, it can make spacing easier in certain situations. In this video the jump out of dash is a little too late but you get the same idea.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Hmm... LancerStaff should really know better... although this wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened. I'd be more inclined to hit him if I saw something similar again or he continued it further...

In FE6 I always had to use Fir, Sue, Lugh, Ray; and also Clarine and Lilina.
Always was a masochist and the intergame stories (Lugh and Ray >_< in particular) were too much not to honour.
It meant a lot to me to have Sue and Fir 'grow', and for Lugh and Ray to be the forefront of the 'good end'.

In terms of the original drama 'argument'.
Roy is perhaps low tier. Let me try to justify this logically for a second
we have 58 characters; the median of that is 29.
When we think about 'middle tier', that would mean characters on a similar 'power level' to the 25th-35th characters are middle tier.
Now 29 characters seems like a lot, but for many people they could probably list that many characters they think are stronger than Roy. Personally I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if through my being as fair as possible, Roy would have 30 characters ahead of him.

Does that mean Roy sucks? Not even in the slightest.
But his difficulty is extreme. I genuinely think he is one of the most difficult characters in the game to maximise his efficiency with and control and on top of that he has glaring weaknesses that also are very difficult to circumvent.
But let me hence highlight the idea of 'difficulty', I'm sure nearly everyone who's put time and effort into Roy knows he is difficult. If a character can achieve similar things to Roy but is drastically easier to do so (I think a fair example would be Falcon), I would personally not think they should be considered similar in power.

Tier lists can be many many things. But in a really well balanced game like Smash4, I believe we're going to be looking at tournament representation, match ups, capabilities and their difficulty for determining who goes above who. His capabilities are strong, his match ups and difficulty are not his selling point; and our tournament representation reflects this.

As I've said in rants of the past; love your character, know that he can achieve great things but it's likely NEVER going to be easy, even with a developed meta.

So Roy isn't bad, he's just difficult? Well that's a good (and interesting) way of putting it.

Does that mean that the people calling him bad don't understand how tier lists work? If a character is higher up on the tier list, does that make them easier? I kinda want to know more about tier list so I won't make them as big of a deal. It'd be nice to know your thoughts on tier lists in Smash 4.

 

[Tahu Mata]

So Roy isn't bad, he's just difficult? Well that's a good (and interesting) way of putting it.

Does that mean that the people calling him bad don't understand how tier lists work? If a character is higher up on the tier list, does that make them easier? I kinda want to know more about tier list so I won't make them as big of a deal. It'd be nice to know your thoughts on tier lists in Smash 4.

I'm not Shaya, but I still wanna input my thoughts on this.

While I do think Roy is mid tier, it's overall really hard to pinpoint where he exactly belongs in the tier list. As his tournament representation so far has been very minor, opinions on him are extremely polarising. Some think he's good, others think he's bad, but at the end of the day, there's really no definitive placement for Roy in the tier list for now. We'll just have to see how the character does in the future.

 

[LonkQ]

Out of all the difficulty I've had with Roy, it's killing. Though I don't go to tournaments often, the times I do, I generally find myself high up in the loser's bracket. Then in my final match, I start off with a strong lead, but lose it somewhere near the end and end up in a high percent last stock situation. Then my Up B/Fair/any other move ends up barely short of killing and they just take it at the end. Really frustrating.

 

[ItsFX]

So Roy isn't bad, he's just difficult? Well that's a good (and interesting) way of putting it.

Does that mean that the people calling him bad don't understand how tier lists work? If a character is higher up on the tier list, does that make them easier? I kinda want to know more about tier list so I won't make them as big of a deal. It'd be nice to know your thoughts on tier lists in Smash 4.

It's a mix of things.

If a character is bad but easy to play, they'll probably be ranked higher than a character that's decent but very difficult to pick up, simply because the former won't have to struggle with the very basics of playing the character. If you constantly have to focus on executing moves just right, then you can't focus on what your opponent is doing so you might lose to that.

 

[Tahu Mata]

Out of all the difficulty I've had with Roy, it's killing. Though I don't go to tournaments often, the times I do, I generally find myself high up in the loser's bracket. Then in my final match, I start off with a strong lead, but lose it somewhere near the end and end up in a high percent last stock situation. Then my Up B/Fair/any other move ends up barely short of killing and they just take it at the end. Really frustrating.

Same here. I'm pretty decent at racking up damage, but the one thing I sometimes struggle at is getting the kill.

 

[The Merc]

Are you still technically dashing forward when you jump?

How I often (not always, but I get this same interaction whichever way) do jump retreating aerials is essentially half circling (forward, then circling up and to behind me for a retreating jump) and then c-sticking an aerial

But I think if you're holding forward, press jump and then immediately flick back, you'll get a stunted retreating jump. In contrast if you've let go of the stick when you jump and then hold backwards you shouldn't experience this (i.e. you should've probably started your dash end animation).
Most characters have different animations for jumping forward and backwards (not too noticeable on Roy, but you're leaning back), so you'll be seeing a backwards jump animation.

On Roy, the difference is very noticeable.
You're losing half the distance you'd travel in the air.
For ZSS you're losing about a fifth of your total distance traveled, it's extremely negligible.

In hindsight, this isn't something you would probably think too much of unless you tried it in Brawl, where the same action wouldn't inhibit your aerial mobility. While without that background, thinking "letting go of the stick before jumping so I can achieve good mobility" makes sense ~_~

I just tested what you are getting at with Roy and you're right.

If you dash forward, jump then flick the control backwards, Roy barely covers half the distance he would if he was to just stand still and then jumping back.

Compare that to ZSS and like you said, there is literally almost no difference.

I myself don't exactly know why this is the case (i think you mentioned Air deceleration). Though I found out that if you flick the stick just before you jump, Roy isn't effect nearly as much, tho it's really hard to pull off.

You know, after doing all this testing with air and ground speeds, I have to say, Roy's starting to feel a little slow. I don't know why.

I try my best to make sense, @_@
I'm not great at it lol.

Visual representations would be better but the main subject of that post can be seen by

1. Pick Roy
2. Stand still: Jump holding backwards, see how far you can go!?
3. Dash forward, jump holding backwards, see how you go no where? THIS SUCKS

Retreating aerials out of a dash is a mid-range game play staple. Gotta make it work, somehow.
Actually, I have a fourth option/edit to make to that post.

No, it's okay. i'm sorry you have to deal with idiots like me who know nothing. What I was referring to more that I don't understand is the shield stun stuff. I still don't have my heard around the meaning of the numbers.

Out of all the difficulty I've had with Roy, it's killing. Though I don't go to tournaments often, the times I do, I generally find myself high up in the loser's bracket. Then in my final match, I start off with a strong lead, but lose it somewhere near the end and end up in a high percent last stock situation. Then my Up B/Fair/any other move ends up barely short of killing and they just take it at the end. Really frustrating.

Yeah, I know where you are coming from. Then again, I have difficulty kill not matter which character I play.

I suck at Smash

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

oh god, it's this conversation AGAIN

seriously, **** this social

 

[The Merc]

oh god, it's this conversation AGAIN

seriously, **** this social

What conversation?

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Don't mind my above post, I was skimming the thread before I had to go do something and irritation from this probably being my worst day in a really long time kicked in and I posted without thinking just to get some of that frustration out.

I'm really sorry about that, I don't often go into this kind of mental state, I'll wait until it's better to come back. I didn't mean to lash out at anyone or cause an awkward situation.

 

[Tahu Mata]

Don't mind my above post, I was skimming the thread before I had to go do something and irritation from this probably being my worst day in a really long time kicked in and I posted without thinking just to get some of that frustration out.

I'm really sorry about that, I don't often go into this kind of mental state, I'll wait until it's better to come back. I didn't mean to lash out at anyone or cause an awkward situation.

It's alright, man. Happens to all of us.

 

[The Merc]

Don't mind my above post, I was skimming the thread before I had to go do something and irritation from this probably being my worst day in a really long time kicked in and I posted without thinking just to get some of that frustration out.

I'm really sorry about that, I don't often go into this kind of mental state, I'll wait until it's better to come back. I didn't mean to lash out at anyone or cause an awkward situation.

Oh that's okay man. No need to apologise. It happens to everyone.

 

[Shaya]

No, it's okay. i'm sorry you have to deal with idiots like me who know nothing. What I was referring to more that I don't understand is the shield stun stuff. I still don't have my heard around the meaning of the numbers.

No~
I really do struggle to verbalize things in a way that makes sense to people. It doesn't help if it's a technical matter either, but I digress. I couldn't get EnGarde to understand what I was trying to explain either @_@

Back Air has more damage than forward air, as you would know.
Shield stun is a reflection of damage.

Now sweetspot fair is -5 on shield (immediate landing after hitting with it), while sweetspot back air is -8
Even though back air would have slightly more shield stun, forward air has quite a few frames less landing lag.

However tipper (flubbed) fair is -7 on shield (2 worse than sweetspot), while tipper back air is -9 (only 1 worse than sweet spot).
So, round about now is where I say "if back air auto cancelled in a short hop we would be soooo sweet"; but despite bair not hitting low during it's animation, you won't be accidentally messing up and 'going no where' on the retreat, a -9 on block while drifting away twice as much is definitely going to be safer than a -7 on block when afterwards you're still in grab range.

General idea about disadvantages on shield -
Most grabs are 6 or 7 frames, so if a move is -6 on block, it can be shield grabbed [unless of course you're outside shield grab range]
Shield dropping is 7 frames, so if a character has a 2 frame jab, they can shield drop punish (assuming you're within range) jab a -9 on block.

A move that's roughly -10 is generally considered safe on shield as long as it can be spaced appropriately.
Roy's fair with -5 or -7 but traveling no where in the air is going to be more punishable than back air's -8/-9.

--

something something advertising:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GcccIxzB2tBhTxDDlJPNHd72MVQ95wG5RfnHroDgMc8/edit#gid=0

All aerial safety data in the cast, with explanations in cell comments at the top of the sheet.

 

[Schnizzle Fits]

Yea thats why I came here. Roy is hard to effectively use and I was curious what others where doing with Roy. I never thought much of up air otherwise.

Also most of what your saying is going past my head because I'm to used to Street Fighter's +1 on block stuff but I pretty much get the idea. I think that would give bair more of a reason than just using it over fair because its kb is more favorable than fairs if used to get the opponent off stage.

 

[The Merc]

No~
I really do struggle to verbalize things in a way that makes sense to people. It doesn't help if it's a technical matter either, but I digress. I couldn't get EnGarde to understand what I was trying to explain either @_@

Back Air has more damage than forward air, as you would know.
Shield stun is a reflection of damage.

Now sweetspot fair is -5 on shield (immediate landing after hitting with it), while sweetspot back air is -8
Even though back air would have slightly more shield stun, forward air has quite a few frames less landing lag.

However tipper (flubbed) fair is -7 on shield (2 worse than sweetspot), while tipper back air is -9 (only 1 worse than sweet spot).
So, round about now is where I say "if back air auto cancelled in a short hop we would be soooo sweet"; but despite bair not hitting low during it's animation, you won't be accidentally messing up and 'going no where' on the retreat, a -9 on block while drifting away twice as much is definitely going to be safer than a -7 on block when afterwards you're still in grab range.

General idea about disadvantages on shield -
Most grabs are 6 or 7 frames, so if a move is -6 on block, it can be shield grabbed [unless of course you're outside shield grab range]
Shield dropping is 7 frames, so if a character has a 2 frame jab, they can shield drop punish (assuming you're within range) jab a -9 on block.

A move that's roughly -10 is generally considered safe on shield as long as it can be spaced appropriately.
Roy's fair with -5 or -7 but traveling no where in the air is going to be more punishable than back air's -8/-9.

--

something something advertising:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GcccIxzB2tBhTxDDlJPNHd72MVQ95wG5RfnHroDgMc8/edit#gid=0

All aerial safety data in the cast, with explanations in cell comments at the top of the sheet.

Okay. I think I'm starting to understand what you mean.

Though just clarify, with the shield stun readings, is it better to have a higher negative (-10) or a lower one (-1)? And what exactly does the negative number mean?

 

[ILOVESMASH]

I'm a bit late to the party, but let me just say that clearing up misinformation about a character doesn't actually do anything to change the general consensus of said character's strength and viability unless it supports the majority's opinion on said character. For instance, people are still gonna be claiming that Roy has a bad edge guarding games no matter how much evidence is brought up to refute this claim simply because they want to believe Roy is a bad character with no real strengths. Personally I'm fine with this since the mass negative opinion of a character USUALLY leads to more buffs, but it still is frustrating seeing people who don't play the character still state misinformation to support their claims.

Okay. I think I'm starting to understand what you mean.

Though just clarify, with the shield stun readings, is it better to have a higher negative (-10) or a lower one (-1)? And what exactly does the negative number mean?

Lower Negative numbers / Higher positive numbers are usually better to have.

 

[The Merc]

Lower Negative numbers / Higher positive numbers are usually better to have.

....

That doesn't help...

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Okay, I'm sorry about earlier. I found out a buddy died before work this morning and I saw a conversation between my last ex and the guy she two-timed and left me for, so I've felt shaken up and miserable all day. It's still no excuse to leave an offhand comment that rude, I'm at least glad I was able to pull myself back before I went in and acted much more destructive like I really wanted to. I wanted to do anything I could to get the pain out, but the day's over and I'm in a spot of healing, and my last few hours were nice. I do feel irritated with recurring discussion on Roy's tiering, however I could handle it much better.
I feel like we get nowhere when the topic's brought up, and I feel like the social only becomes active for that topic. I would like to discuss other things that are more progressive or entertaining more often, and focus on advancing the character rather than staying in the same place on a discussion where we might never know who is in the right. It feels endless, and like we're going nowhere. I would ask that we please refrain from any tiering or viability discussions, because I see no positives to it whatsoever. If we really need to have them, we have a meta thread that's stickied iirc. I don't know how everyone feels on this, so I'll keep my mouth shut if other users don't see a problem with it.

I do want to improve my rep and keep learning and be a good example of a Roy main rather than what I've been doing, and today didn't help. I would like to chill out on future posts, so that users don't indirectly call me crazy or feel uncomfortable when I'm around.

 

[Tahu Mata]

Okay, I'm sorry about earlier. I found out a buddy died before work this morning and I saw a conversation between my last ex and the guy she two-timed and left me for, so I've felt shaken up and miserable all day. It's still no excuse to leave an offhand comment that rude, I'm at least glad I was able to pull myself back before I went in and acted much more destructive like I really wanted to. I wanted to do anything I could to get the pain out, but the day's over and I'm in a spot of healing, and my last few hours were nice. I do feel irritated with recurring discussion on Roy's tiering, however I could handle it much better.
I feel like we get nowhere when the topic's brought up, and I feel like the social only becomes active for that topic. I would like to discuss other things that are more progressive or entertaining more often, and focus on advancing the character rather than staying in the same place on a discussion where we might never know who is in the right. It feels endless, and like we're going nowhere. I would ask that we please refrain from any tiering or viability discussions, because I see no positives to it whatsoever. If we really need to have them, we have a meta thread that's stickied iirc. I don't know how everyone feels on this, so I'll keep my mouth shut if other users don't see a problem with it.

I do want to improve my rep and keep learning and be a good example of a Roy main rather than what I've been doing, and today didn't help. I would like to chill out on future posts, so that users don't indirectly call me crazy or feel uncomfortable when I'm around.

I'm really sorry to hear that, man. You have my condolences.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Okay, I'm sorry about earlier. I found out a buddy died before work this morning and I saw a conversation between my last ex and the guy she two-timed and left me for, so I've felt shaken up and miserable all day. It's still no excuse to leave an offhand comment that rude, I'm at least glad I was able to pull myself back before I went in and acted much more destructive like I really wanted to. I wanted to do anything I could to get the pain out, but the day's over and I'm in a spot of healing, and my last few hours were nice. I do feel irritated with recurring discussion on Roy's tiering, however I could handle it much better.
I feel like we get nowhere when the topic's brought up, and I feel like the social only becomes active for that topic. I would like to discuss other things that are more progressive or entertaining more often, and focus on advancing the character rather than staying in the same place on a discussion where we might never know who is in the right. It feels endless, and like we're going nowhere. I would ask that we please refrain from any tiering or viability discussions, because I see no positives to it whatsoever. If we really need to have them, we have a meta thread that's stickied iirc. I don't know how everyone feels on this, so I'll keep my mouth shut if other users don't see a problem with it.

I do want to improve my rep and keep learning and be a good example of a Roy main rather than what I've been doing, and today didn't help. I would like to chill out on future posts, so that users don't indirectly call me crazy or feel uncomfortable when I'm around.

Duuude I'm so sorry. How did you friend die? Was he sick? Killed? What happened? :/

And ouch... I know how you feel about that ex thing. I've never dated, but I definitely have felt heartbreak or something similar.
I haven't been doing so great myself. Senior year is frustrating with all the work. Have to worry about college and all that. It's winding down, but I can't help but to feel a huge weight is sitting on my shoulder.

 

[The Merc]

Okay, I'm sorry about earlier. I found out a buddy died before work this morning and I saw a conversation between my last ex and the guy she two-timed and left me for, so I've felt shaken up and miserable all day. It's still no excuse to leave an offhand comment that rude, I'm at least glad I was able to pull myself back before I went in and acted much more destructive like I really wanted to. I wanted to do anything I could to get the pain out, but the day's over and I'm in a spot of healing, and my last few hours were nice. I do feel irritated with recurring discussion on Roy's tiering, however I could handle it much better.
I feel like we get nowhere when the topic's brought up, and I feel like the social only becomes active for that topic. I would like to discuss other things that are more progressive or entertaining more often, and focus on advancing the character rather than staying in the same place on a discussion where we might never know who is in the right. It feels endless, and like we're going nowhere. I would ask that we please refrain from any tiering or viability discussions, because I see no positives to it whatsoever. If we really need to have them, we have a meta thread that's stickied iirc. I don't know how everyone feels on this, so I'll keep my mouth shut if other users don't see a problem with it.

I do want to improve my rep and keep learning and be a good example of a Roy main rather than what I've been doing, and today didn't help. I would like to chill out on future posts, so that users don't indirectly call me crazy or feel uncomfortable when I'm around.

Oh my gods..... mate.....

I just so sorry. I literally have no words to say. My heart hurts reading this.

Truly, I am sorry you are going through all this...

 

[EnGarde]

Okay, I'm sorry about earlier. I found out a buddy died before work this morning and I saw a conversation between my last ex and the guy she two-timed and left me for, so I've felt shaken up and miserable all day. It's still no excuse to leave an offhand comment that rude, I'm at least glad I was able to pull myself back before I went in and acted much more destructive like I really wanted to. I wanted to do anything I could to get the pain out, but the day's over and I'm in a spot of healing, and my last few hours were nice. I do feel irritated with recurring discussion on Roy's tiering, however I could handle it much better.
I feel like we get nowhere when the topic's brought up, and I feel like the social only becomes active for that topic. I would like to discuss other things that are more progressive or entertaining more often, and focus on advancing the character rather than staying in the same place on a discussion where we might never know who is in the right. It feels endless, and like we're going nowhere. I would ask that we please refrain from any tiering or viability discussions, because I see no positives to it whatsoever. If we really need to have them, we have a meta thread that's stickied iirc. I don't know how everyone feels on this, so I'll keep my mouth shut if other users don't see a problem with it.

I do want to improve my rep and keep learning and be a good example of a Roy main rather than what I've been doing, and today didn't help. I would like to chill out on future posts, so that users don't indirectly call me crazy or feel uncomfortable when I'm around.

I'm sorry for your loss.

---

Sorry I didn't understand you the first time, Shaya . x.x I'm guessing you mean, not that dash forwards retreating fairs with backwards momentum are impossible, but if you execute a jump with forwards momentum, the forwards momentum hinders the amount of distance back you can travel? idk.

It got me to thinking, so I tested out how much distance Roy travels out of a short hop depending on how you execute a jump, measured in planks on omega Pirate Ship. I measured based on what Roy was doing prior to the jump (standing, walking, initial dash, and run), holding a direction during the jump-squat (neutral/no direction, forwards, and backwards), and holding a direction while Roy is in the air (neutral/no direction, forwards, and backwards). Here is a spreadsheet with my rough findings, though I will try to remeasure with an average of more data points, to eliminate potential human error (this was a quick pass). Idk, that sounds like work though lol.

Anywho, looking at initial dash values, I can see where if someone executes the jump incorrectly you would get less backwards distance, with the forwards jump actually ending with you still moving forwards. I'll need to retest the "out of run" and "out of walk" numbers, since I'm not comfortable with how the testing execution ended up with those, they could be off. I might check another character to see what kind of a difference the air friction/acceleration ends up being.

Spoiler: screenshot of jump out of initial dash data from spreadsheet

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Something I've been doing at mid to high percents when F-Throw does not lead into combos anymore is go for U-Throw. The throw is not as good as Marth's at killing, but its still very good at setting up into U-Air juggles, as well as potential Bair or Fair kills. I think this might be worth looking into.

I've also been using Roy's Dash Attack on the edge of the stage if the opponent is trying to jump back onto the stage. Being disjointed means that its hitbox extends a lot further away from the stage than other Dash Attacks. Sourspot is a pretty good semi spike while the sweetspot can kill opponents at 110% or so.

Okay, I'm sorry about earlier. I found out a buddy died before work this morning and I saw a conversation between my last ex and the guy she two-timed and left me for, so I've felt shaken up and miserable all day. It's still no excuse to leave an offhand comment that rude, I'm at least glad I was able to pull myself back before I went in and acted much more destructive like I really wanted to. I wanted to do anything I could to get the pain out, but the day's over and I'm in a spot of healing, and my last few hours were nice. I do feel irritated with recurring discussion on Roy's tiering, however I could handle it much better.
I feel like we get nowhere when the topic's brought up, and I feel like the social only becomes active for that topic. I would like to discuss other things that are more progressive or entertaining more often, and focus on advancing the character rather than staying in the same place on a discussion where we might never know who is in the right. It feels endless, and like we're going nowhere. I would ask that we please refrain from any tiering or viability discussions, because I see no positives to it whatsoever. If we really need to have them, we have a meta thread that's stickied iirc. I don't know how everyone feels on this, so I'll keep my mouth shut if other users don't see a problem with it.

I do want to improve my rep and keep learning and be a good example of a Roy main rather than what I've been doing, and today didn't help. I would like to chill out on future posts, so that users don't indirectly call me crazy or feel uncomfortable when I'm around.

Sorry for your losses. Hope your life gets better soon.

 

[ItsFX]

....

That doesn't help...

The numbers reference the amount of frames the shielded player gets to react in. So lower is better. 10 frames or less is considered safe on shield because those attacks' hitstuns last long enough to make shielddrop>jab too slow if spaced correctly.

 

[The Merc]

The numbers reference the amount of frames the shielded player gets to react in. So lower is better. 10 frames or less is considered safe on shield because those attacks' hitstuns last long enough to make shielddrop>jab too slow if spaced correctly.

Ah, now I get it. So I'm guessing the number refers to the number of frames in shield stun?

 

[ItsFX]

Something I've been doing at mid to high percents when F-Throw does not lead into combos anymore is go for U-Throw. The throw is not as good as Marth's at killing, but its still very good at setting up into U-Air juggles, as well as potential Bair or Fair kills. I think this might be worth looking into.

I've also been using Roy's Dash Attack on the edge of the stage if the opponent is trying to jump back onto the stage. Being disjointed means that its hitbox extends a lot further away from the stage than other Dash Attacks. Sourspot is a pretty good semi spike while the sweetspot can kill opponents at 110% or so.

I like to uthrow in mid-percents every now and again on Battlefield, but on most maps it's pretty unreliable I'd say.

I like going for the odd dash attack off stage sometimes as well, it can reach surprisingly deep and catch people off guard. If you sourspot it you can instantly dash off the stage for a fair to take the stock, or you can try to spike their up-b recovery with dair.

 

[Serew]

Okay, I'm sorry about earlier. I found out a buddy died before work this morning and I saw a conversation between my last ex and the guy she two-timed and left me for, so I've felt shaken up and miserable all day. It's still no excuse to leave an offhand comment that rude, I'm at least glad I was able to pull myself back before I went in and acted much more destructive like I really wanted to. I wanted to do anything I could to get the pain out, but the day's over and I'm in a spot of healing, and my last few hours were nice. I do feel irritated with recurring discussion on Roy's tiering, however I could handle it much better.
I feel like we get nowhere when the topic's brought up, and I feel like the social only becomes active for that topic. I would like to discuss other things that are more progressive or entertaining more often, and focus on advancing the character rather than staying in the same place on a discussion where we might never know who is in the right. It feels endless, and like we're going nowhere. I would ask that we please refrain from any tiering or viability discussions, because I see no positives to it whatsoever. If we really need to have them, we have a meta thread that's stickied iirc. I don't know how everyone feels on this, so I'll keep my mouth shut if other users don't see a problem with it.

I do want to improve my rep and keep learning and be a good example of a Roy main rather than what I've been doing, and today didn't help. I would like to chill out on future posts, so that users don't indirectly call me crazy or feel uncomfortable when I'm around.

Best of luck mason! I'm sorry for your loss D:

I like to uthrow in mid-percents every now and again on Battlefield, but on most maps it's pretty unreliable I'd say.

You have to keep in mind you're staling a kill move, but ofcourse that's only up to 9 moves in the staling queue so it's probably already fine once they're in normal kill %, Do keep in mind though, that there's better combo's off throws even on BF. Sometimes dthrow up air would even connect and set them up in that position for example

 

[GunBlaze]

dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523 As someone who's undergone the same things, my condolences.

I'm currently enduring the 6th anniversary of my second girlfriend's death...

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Thank you guys so much for the positive wishes and support. I only had time to skim, I won't have time to like/reply to posts for now.

Dropping in briefly to say that getting work off for April 9th and 10th is extremely likely, and there's two events I can cram in on the 8th and 9th. I will be playing solo Roy, and I'm confident in improvements to my neutral game, no longer overcommitting nearly as hard as my last event, improvements in matchups, and lots of little stuff.

:D

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I had a cool funny Roy replay but I don't know how to add videos

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

So I finally got to play someone in the community I've looked up to ever since finding his channel, Gawain .

The video I've been stressing a lot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-9CzXWGlB4) for players here to look at, and Marcus's Musings were made by him, which are very informative Roy guides on neutral and punish. The Falcon video directed me to the Round Robin, which was a really enjoyable experience and really helped me shape myself as a player over the months.

When I look back on these replays, I'll have a lot of notes to take on his punish game, since there were times where he did these insane true combos and setups. He had some ways of securing stocks I haven't seen or practiced that I need to learn. It'll also help me with the Falcon matchup, since one of our most notable CO players solo mains him.

 

[Gawain]

So I finally got to play someone in the community I've looked up to ever since finding his channel, Gawain .

The video I've been stressing a lot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-9CzXWGlB4) for players here to look at, and Marcus's Musings were made by him, which are very informative Roy guides on neutral and punish. The Falcon video directed me to the Round Robin, which was a really enjoyable experience and really helped me shape myself as a player over the months.

When I look back on these replays, I'll have a lot of notes to take on his punish game, since there were times where he did these insane true combos and setups. He had some ways of securing stocks I haven't seen or practiced that I need to learn. It'll also help me with the Falcon matchup, since one of our most notable CO players solo mains him.

It was a blast to play with you and EnGarde today and I got some really excellent data too, I had forgotten how fun online can be even though you can't do a lot of the super precise stuff that you can offline. I've also never played against people who are so good at gimping and punishing Roy haha, you guys are truly terrors and I'd love to play locals with you someday. I look forward to future matches.

 

[EnGarde]

It was a blast to play with you and EnGarde today and I got some really excellent data too, I had forgotten how fun online can be even though you can't do a lot of the super precise stuff that you can offline. I've also never played against people who are so good at gimping and punishing Roy haha, you guys are truly terrors and I'd love to play locals with you someday. I look forward to future matches.

Same! I had a blast as well. If you're looking for matches in the future, feel free to drop me a line lol.

 

[Tahu Mata]

Same! I had a blast as well. If you're looking for matches in the future, feel free to drop me a line lol.

I can definitely relate to this. I usually don't like playing online, but it's a blast with friends. Me and Mason had some really good matches.