Social Roy Social - R O Y B O Y Z

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So I got my Roy-Amiibo today.

Intriguingly enough, it's also Binding Blade's 14nth anniversary!

Apparently these were so popular that mine (pre-ordered) was only one left... they even told me that I was to be called to get mine ASAP. I'm already shuddering to think what would have happened otherwise...

 

[Jiom]

I don't really have attachment to amiibos but damn do these posts make me want to go out and get one. They look so great.

 

[The Merc]

I think it's plenty fast enough. It's good for covering space and it has speed to allow for easy follow ups. Roy's attacks in general are pretty good on ending lag. The only move that I think needs a lag reduction is back throw.

Yeah, but still, I feel like it could have at least 2 frame off it.

I honestly want them to reduce the start up of Fair

 

[Schnizzle Fits]

I don't really have attachment to amiibos but damn do these posts make me want to go out and get one. They look so great.

Roy's amiibo puts Marths to shame. I mean most amiibos do already. How did the screw that one up so bad

 

[MarioMeteor]

Roy's amiibo puts Marths to shame. I mean most amiibos do already. How did the screw that one up so bad

Oh, you mean Morth?

Yeah, but still, I feel like it could have at least 2 frame off it.

I honestly want them to reduce the start up of Fair

I don't know, I could see that being kind of broken. But I agree with you on F-air, though.

 

[The Merc]

So a bunch of people in i know in the Pit thread think Roy is Low tier.

*sigh*

I don't know, I could see that being kind of broken. But I agree with you on F-air, though.

Well, it's 23 frames at the moment

Sheik's is 18. So I don't think it necessarily would. Yeah, it's annoying to see these combos that could work but don't cause Fair is just too slow.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

YOOOOOOOOOOO

So a bunch of people in i know in the Pit thread think Roy is Low tier.

*sigh*



Well, it's 23 frames at the moment

Sheik's is 18. So I don't think it necessarily would. Yeah, it's annoying to see these combos that could work but don't cause Fair is just too slow.

They're the Pit boards, a bunch of RandomTimmy22's of an entirely different character, are you really going to take them to heart on a character they know nothing about? If you want them to think more highly of Roy, you need to buckle down and get those free wins on them.






I guess I'll ***** out uploads here that are relevant to Roy or FE6, to get more people into FE and see why Roy's truly a baller lord.

 

[Lady Kuki]

So a bunch of people in i know in the Pit thread think Roy is Low tier.

*sigh*

How much you want to bet that they got the majority of their opinions from someone else and not because they did their research? I highly doubt those guys have seen or played a good Roy before. Roy may not be top or maybe even high tier, but I highly doubt he is low tier. Just ignore them and play the character. Before any character gets big, there will be a few detractors saying that they're not worth using. If you are so keen on developing Roy's meta, then don't listen to them.

 

[Login_Sinker]

Advertising this because FE6, and there's some Roy matches in the background (granted they're 1AM online friendlies below my usual level of play, but still some stuff to learn from them)

I'll try to tune in when you play FE 6. I'm pretty scrubby in FE in general so I could use some tips. Gonna try to finish it myself first tho

 

[The Merc]

YOOOOOOOOOOO

Will this have "We Ride Together?"[/QUOTE]

They're the Pit boards, a bunch of RandomTimmy22's of an entirely different character, are you really going to take them to heart on a character they know nothing about? If you want them to think more highly of Roy, you need to buckle down and get those free wins on them.

How much you want to bet that they got the majority of their opinions from someone else and not because they did their research? I highly doubt those guys have seen or played a good Roy before. Roy may not be top or maybe even high tier, but I highly doubt he is low tier. Just ignore them and play the character. Before any character gets big, there will be a few detractors saying that they're not worth using. If you are so keen on developing Roy's meta, then don't listen to them.

Whoops hehe, I should have made myself more clear. I wasn't getting dishearten by there opinions (heck, I seriously disagree with their opinions.) It just makes me sad to see people still think Roy is low tier. And seriously, while I do think they have some fair points, it does seem like they don't know the character all that much.

I mean, if you guys could have a look at what I mean, that would be nice and easier to show you what I mean and also just to get your opinions in case all I am talking is crap. It's just happening in the Pit Social.

 

[HermitHelmet]

At the weekend I'm going to be uploading a solid 4 Hours worth of Stream Replays, mostly Roy Dittos between me and Fx.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Whoops hehe, I should have made myself more clear. I wasn't getting dishearten by there opinions (heck, I seriously disagree with their opinions.) It just makes me sad to see people still think Roy is low tier. And seriously, while I do think they have some fair points, it does seem like they don't know the character all that much.

I mean, if you guys could have a look at what I mean, that would be nice and easier to show you what I mean and also just to get your opinions in case all I am talking is crap. It's just happening in the Pit Social.

That's fine.

I think the problem with Roy is not his tools, but his lack of dedicated fans. People don't want to main Roy because they're either too busy trying to lab their own main (their main that was available since the beginning of the game) or because they want to use a top tier/high tier to get the most efficient results as quickly as possible. The thing is, unlike other DLC characters Roy (and Lucas to an extent) don't have any real 0 to death combos or any powerful, yet exploitable moves so people aren't interested in playing them. I dunno about you, but I feel that people are afraid of experimenting. They aren't patient enough with certain characters. They just want a character that will get them ez wins and while that's okay, I feel that type of thinking limits creativity a bit. If you play to win, good for you. I just think it would be nice if more people were open to other characters.

Since not many people play Roy, people, specifically the competitive minded judge Roy by his results. Roy doesn't have many results, and it can't be because he's actually awful. It's more so because people see no point in playing as him. He doesn't have any tools that look pretty or tools that could shut down certain characters. He's just Roy. He's a pretty honest and straightforward character. Due to the lack of Roy players, ignorance about the character occurs. One guy sees Roy's weaknesses. He'd might spot Roy's weaknesses by maining him for a few days, by playing crappy ones on FG, or by seeing a random Roy in a tournament. He would blame those weaknesses for the lack of results. Other people would follow instead of doing their research, because again, they're either loyal to their base-game main, or because they're the type of player who only plays the best characters.

What's even more shallow is that the detractors only state his weaknesses, or if they do state any strengths, they would only say that he has an above-average punish game.

Wanna know proof that not many people know about Roy? A guy on the Roy discord was telling us how he used Roy against DKWill and took a game off him. DKWill was surprised at his Roy; he said he'd never seen a Roy like his before. Another player from Japan told the same guy that his Roy had a good neutral; the Roy's in Japan apparently have a good offstage game, but not a good neutral.

Of course it's totally possible that Roy is low tier. If he does turn out to be low tier, and if his low tier placement bothers you, you can always pick a different character. Ask yourself what your goals are. Do you play to win? If so, I'm sorry but Roy may not be the character for you. Pick a top/high tier instead. Do you want to be the best Roy player? Then pick him and stick with him, even if you encounter terrible match ups. Gotta be honest with your goals when it comes to Smash. It saves a lot trouble.

Btw, could you at least lable the reasons why they think Roy is low tier? I don't think I can answer them; I'm not competitively savvy yet, but I think other more experienced Roy mains may help answer that question for you.

 

[HermitHelmet]

^ I couldn't agree more with all of that. If you care so much about character viability or what people think, the character is not for you.

In other games I got the same stuff. I never dropped a set in Pools once in Melee with my Jigglypuff. People called me lame, gay, whatever, I stopped playing the character because I didn't like the backlash - I don't condone behaviour like that but the thing is that if you cared that much you'd stop playing the character. Same goes for Ness in PM, I got called out because I played a garbo character (especially in 3.5) but I kept at it because I really enjoyed how Ness played, and what others said didn't bother me.

The bottom line is, people will whine for whatever reason. It doesn't matter if you perform well or you drown in pools, it doesn't matter if you're a Brawl MK or a Melee Kirby, it doesn't matter if you play super lame or not, it's about how you deal with the criticism, whether constructive or not.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

YOOOOOOOOOOO

AND we already have Strike #1!

That was much faster than I expected though. Seems like we get to look forward to more updates on these amiibo features regarding Roy in the future. Digging that remix too, BTW.

That's fine.

I think the problem with Roy is not his tools, but his lack of dedicated fans. People don't want to main Roy because they're either too busy trying to lab their own main (their main that was available since the beginning of the game) or because they want to use a top tier/high tier to get the most efficient results as quickly as possible. The thing is, unlike other DLC characters Roy (and Lucas to an extent) don't have any real 0 to death combos or any powerful, yet exploitable moves so people aren't interested in playing them. I dunno about you, but I feel that people are afraid of experimenting. They aren't patient enough with certain characters. They just want a character that will get them ez wins and while that's okay, I feel that type of thinking limits creativity a bit. If you play to win, good for you. I just think it would be nice if more people were open to other characters.

Since not many people play Roy, people, specifically the competitive minded judge Roy by his results. Roy doesn't have many results, and it can't be because he's actually awful. It's more so because people see no point in playing as him. He doesn't have any tools that look pretty or tools that could shut down certain characters. He's just Roy. He's a pretty honest and straightforward character. Due to the lack of Roy players, ignorance about the character occurs. One guy sees Roy's weaknesses. He'd might spot Roy's weaknesses by maining him for a few days, by playing crappy ones on FG, or by seeing a random Roy in a tournament. He would blame those weaknesses for the lack of results. Other people would follow instead of doing their research, because again, they're either loyal to their base-game main, or because they're the type of player who only plays the best characters.

What's even more shallow is that the detractors only state his weaknesses, or if they do state any strengths, they would only say that he has an above-average punish game.

Wanna know proof that not many people know about Roy? A guy on the Roy discord was telling us how he used Roy against DKWill and took a game off him. DKWill was surprised at his Roy; he said he'd never seen a Roy like his before. Another player from Japan told the same guy that his Roy had a good neutral; the Roy's in Japan apparently have a good offstage game, but not a good neutral.

I guess it runs back to his actual character and purpose in the FE6: he's not meant to be an experienced fighter, and doesn't have all the cool doodads and bread'n'butter strengths like other FE-lords, (or in this game, more popular Smash-characters) but give him time and dedication, and he'll surprise you along with your opponents.(Even the FE6 was ridden by a poorly done engine compared to more easier FE7.)

In whole though, I think Roy-players got to keep on uniting and growing up to dedicate on the character. If indeed the way people don't know how to deal with his developed players, can give him a advantageous tide to upset the current popularity of the characters.

By this point however, it starts to dawn to me how people haven't truly seen what truly it means to be an underdog. After all, Roy's sheer unconventionality as a fighter seems to have driven a lot away, and apparently ignore the fact that he can have as much performance as their character.

I wonder now though, could we label Roy as someone meant to have a high learning curve?

 

[Lady Kuki]

I guess it runs back to his actual character and purpose in the FE6: he's not meant to be an experienced fighter, and doesn't have all the cool doodads and bread'n'butter strengths like other FE-lords, (or in this game, more popular Smash-characters) but give him time and dedication, and he'll surprise you along with your opponents.(Even the FE6 was ridden by a poorly done engine compared to more easier FE7.)

In whole though, I think Roy-players got to keep on uniting and growing up to dedicate on the character. If indeed the way people don't know how to deal with his developed players, can give him a advantageous tide to upset the current popularity of the characters.

By this point however, it starts to dawn to me how people haven't truly seen what truly it means to be an underdog. After all, Roy's sheer unconventionality as a fighter seems to have driven a lot away, and apparently ignore the fact that he can have as much performance as their character.

I wonder now though, could we label Roy as someone meant to have a high learning curve?

Yeah that does eerily resemble Roy's design in FE6. Anyway, people like the feeling of being empowered in video games, I mean video games are fantasy right? When people play as a character that isn't obviously powerful, they stop playing them because they don't feel instant power or gratification. Usually the less helpless a character feels, the more popular the character would be. That's just how it is.

While I highly doubt that Roy is low tier, I'm not sure what to call Roy at this point. He's just too underdeveloped for us to say anything. He could very well be just another low-tier or a sleeper high mid/low high. We won't know how good or bad he is until we lab him. Unfortunately, we don't have any experienced enough Smash 4 players to really help or support us, but I think it will be worth it in the end.

Lol underdogs. I go on this thread where people discuss the most underrated characters in the meta. I'd see Greninjas, Mewtwo's, Toon Links, Peaches, and a few other popular low/mid tier characters. You know what character I barely see though? Roy. Even that thread thinks Roy is overrated. Again, it's Reddit and threads like these that make me think there is some kind of Roy stigma here. Apparently it's okay to call characters underrated, but if you call Roy underrated, you are simply either ignored or made fun of. If that's not a double standard, I dunno what is. :T

 

[Jiom]

Personally, I feed off of all the negativity and misinformation about my characters. They think my character has terrible weaknesses that make him unviable? They think my character has no kill setups or the kill setups are too hard, or maybe they just won't happen to any tournament level players ever. Then great, just gives me more of an advantage going in knowing they know absolute jack about my character. It just motivates me even more to do well.

Too bad I know absolute jack about my own character too.. but until the time comes I'm going to put in the effort of learning my character to the fullest of my capability.

 

[EnGarde]

The Pit social is a bit different. I was subscribed to there for a while after someone accidentally moved my thread on the Pits' side+b cancels into the "unviewable by non-moderators" Dark Pit sub-forum, and when I was watching, an argument almost came to blows over whether Pit should have retained his Brawl moveset. Then, Smashboards decided to stop notifying me of new posts lol. I left a note there about tournament results, but otherwise, I think I'll stay out of arguments on Roy's tier placement there, because I don't want to get bitten lol.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Lol underdogs. I go on this thread where people discuss the most underrated characters in the meta. I'd see Greninjas, Mewtwo's, Toon Links, Peaches, and a few other popular low/mid tier characters. You know what character I barely see though? Roy. Even that thread thinks Roy is overrated. Again, it's Reddit and threads like these that make me think there is some kind of Roy stigma here. Apparently it's okay to call characters underrated, but if you call Roy underrated, you are simply either ignored or made fun of. If that's not a double standard, I dunno what is. :T

Yeah, sometimes I just wanna wonder what other it could be than plain stigma - especially because trying to imply that some characters are just meant to be not even talked about in same enthusiastic way makes me not relate at all to the entire Smash-playerbase. I mean, it makes no sense, and completely throws down the concept of playing as "whoever you like", since these people come off as some sheep due trying to keep up comically based stigmas on characters. Or whatever the reason Roy is being forced down people's throats as "overrated" and other negative terms.

I can't help looking down at Smash-fanbase for this reason now and then, along with wishing it wasn't that way since I'm such a huge fan like plenty others.

I however really think the best thing we all can do is to put these negative air and surroundings behind us in order to finally start making progress. It makes no sense to cling on them by today whatsoever, and we already have some foundations around us to go off from. Perhaps one day people who wanna cling on these things will be forced to move along like we did.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

It feels like I see the same thing almost every time I'm on the social. Can we like, talk about other things than a character not having streamed tournament results or some negativity surrounding them for once? Can we just stray away from talking about his possible tier position or viability for once? Can we actually talk about interesting things or talk about things that'll push the character instead of hitting this loop again? We're going to hit it another 50 times and there's no point in all 50. Can we have fun for once? It's really getting old and we're not covering anything new, having fun, or pushing the character any, which completely defeats the purpose of a social thread and doesn't make it worth getting on here much. It feels like the only stuff we're allowed to talk about, and that conversations are always driven back to that point and those emotions.
Maybe we'd have more Roy mains sticking around or having more reason to play the character if our social wasn't such a tightly-knit trainwreck that takes the metagame too seriously for its own good.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

I think people are forgetting that the disparity between tiers in Sm4sh is actually a lot lower than compared to any other game in the series.
It also only gets lower and lower with every patch that is brought to the game. The tier list is simply reflective of the meta and this game and how well they fill the wants of that meta, (I've played League of Legends since season 2 and sunk a lot into theory crafting, managing to predict a lot of leagues strongest metas within my group of friends so I feel confident stating my option on this subject.)
Roy doesn't filled the cut and paste wants so he gets look down on and his strengths get over shadowed.

What makes me laugh is that Roy's biggest strength his punish game is one of the best if not the best in within this game.
Even within higher level play it is flat out impossible to play a game with making a single mistake.
Roy has the power to set up kills regardless of you're doing or you're location once he closes the distance.
He's also similar to Ike in that if he can guard ledge right even just once with his neutral B you just flat out lose a stock.

Give it time, when we gain a full understanding of the options/reaction people have in this game punishing will be a strong force to combat.
Ryo shows this playstyle pretty well even now with his Ike, playing a really strong intimidation game.

Edit: We just need to show them that they need to respect us, and how far we can push it when they don't

 

[The Merc]

That's fine.

I think the problem with Roy is not his tools, but his lack of dedicated fans. People don't want to main Roy because they're either too busy trying to lab their own main (their main that was available since the beginning of the game) or because they want to use a top tier/high tier to get the most efficient results as quickly as possible. The thing is, unlike other DLC characters Roy (and Lucas to an extent) don't have any real 0 to death combos or any powerful, yet exploitable moves so people aren't interested in playing them. I dunno about you, but I feel that people are afraid of experimenting. They aren't patient enough with certain characters. They just want a character that will get them ez wins and while that's okay, I feel that type of thinking limits creativity a bit. If you play to win, good for you. I just think it would be nice if more people were open to other characters.

Since not many people play Roy, people, specifically the competitive minded judge Roy by his results. Roy doesn't have many results, and it can't be because he's actually awful. It's more so because people see no point in playing as him. He doesn't have any tools that look pretty or tools that could shut down certain characters. He's just Roy. He's a pretty honest and straightforward character. Due to the lack of Roy players, ignorance about the character occurs. One guy sees Roy's weaknesses. He'd might spot Roy's weaknesses by maining him for a few days, by playing crappy ones on FG, or by seeing a random Roy in a tournament. He would blame those weaknesses for the lack of results. Other people would follow instead of doing their research, because again, they're either loyal to their base-game main, or because they're the type of player who only plays the best characters.

What's even more shallow is that the detractors only state his weaknesses, or if they do state any strengths, they would only say that he has an above-average punish game.

Wanna know proof that not many people know about Roy? A guy on the Roy discord was telling us how he used Roy against DKWill and took a game off him. DKWill was surprised at his Roy; he said he'd never seen a Roy like his before. Another player from Japan told the same guy that his Roy had a good neutral; the Roy's in Japan apparently have a good offstage game, but not a good neutral.

Of course it's totally possible that Roy is low tier. If he does turn out to be low tier, and if his low tier placement bothers you, you can always pick a different character. Ask yourself what your goals are. Do you play to win? If so, I'm sorry but Roy may not be the character for you. Pick a top/high tier instead. Do you want to be the best Roy player? Then pick him and stick with him, even if you encounter terrible match ups. Gotta be honest with your goals when it comes to Smash. It saves a lot trouble.

Btw, could you at least lable the reasons why they think Roy is low tier? I don't think I can answer them; I'm not competitively savvy yet, but I think other more experienced Roy mains may help answer that question for you.

Exactly my thoughts

Also, this was the reasons they said

This, I cannot. It's insanity to think Roy has anything remotely high tier about him, to be frank. He moves fast but he lacks any good neutral tools. Nair I don't think is even a proper blockstring so even the otherwise impressively safe second hit is out of grasp, never mind that it's still hindered by requiring close range spacing and loses incredibly hard to powershield unlike virtually every other safe move. Dash grab and dash attack are laughably bad approach options and anything else is mediocre at best.

If Roy manages to get in... The vast majority of his combos are easy to DI out of on reaction. Raw damage is good, not great. It's severely hindered by his backwards hitboxes and poor frame data. Roy's dash attack does 13% max, and yet it comes out a few frames later and has ten more frames of endlag then Pit's which does 11% no matter where you hit with it, for example. His killing ability is also quite poor, with no way to kill off of a grab, no safe kill moves or conversions, and even with a hard read or punish he can't do the job right because his backwards hitboxes mess everything up again. Can't kill off a tilt like Marth can because he needs to be ridiculously close, and his Fsmash is mostly sourspot that's fully survivable until 160% and isn't even that fast. The 20% hitbox where you get your insanely fast kills from is buried behind a 17% hitbox which is more normal Fsmash power compared to other characters built like him. Usmash kills much later for how he's built and strictly above him too, while Dsmash is a pathetic joke of a move that's not even good for hard reads because the backwards hitboxes neuter the risk/reward of the move to unusability.

Roy's disadvantage is one of the worst in the game. Gets carried across the stage by any character due to his physics, airdodge is mediocre, Nair comes out F6 practically inside of him and every other aerial that potentially could be used for landing is F10 or worse with no constant, lingering hitboxes to speak of. His recovery is dismal. Like, it's probably worth it for Little Mac to mess with him it's so bad. Since his Fair takes forever to come out and he lacks any means of stalling offstage he's only ever an airdodge read away from death, and Blazer is ridiculously easy to challenge too with it's poorly placed hitboxes. He can't even go offstage himself with his Dair being a strong contender for worst move in the game.

Legit question: What part of this make him high tier?

Though i did make a small mistake on my behalf of it all. XD

It feels like I see the same thing almost every time I'm on the social. Can we like, talk about other things than a character not having streamed tournament results or some negativity surrounding them for once? Can we just stray away from talking about his possible tier position or viability for once? Can we actually talk about interesting things or talk about things that'll push the character instead of hitting this loop again? We're going to hit it another 50 times and there's no point in all 50. Can we have fun for once? It's really getting old and we're not covering anything new, having fun, or pushing the character any, which completely defeats the purpose of a social thread and doesn't make it worth getting on here much. It feels like the only stuff we're allowed to talk about, and that conversations are always driven back to that point and those emotions.
Maybe we'd have more Roy mains sticking around or having more reason to play the character if our social wasn't such a tightly-knit trainwreck that takes the metagame too seriously for its own good.

Okay Fine.
What something fun?

Here

Enjoy

 

[Login_Sinker]

All the social threads I've visited are different. This one is chill and really informative, the Sonic one is pretty casual and relaxed, the Lucas one is similar to this one (if a bit more barren), the Link one is scary, and the Toon Link one is dead.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Admittedly, I somewhat feel like a weak player, and like a lot of what I do is aimless banter out of random passion and putting up a facade.

I feel really behind Serew and some others. I don't feel like I have the Roy-specific knowledge I need to really push the character and step up my game. Everyone's doing these sick things with uair and just having scary punishes in general and I feel really behind. Watching Ryo again at Submerged Smash makes me wonder this even more. I've been working on the character since June, but I don't feel like I've truly been working on the character like some others, and I'd like to find the essential boost or push to. I don't know if I have it within me, too. I feel like dead weight who isn't doing anything new for the character and like I'll never reach a point where I'll be needed for the push.

I feel like my 8 or so months of investment still lags behind secondary investment or 2-3 month investment from other players on character-specific things, and I'd like to do something about it asap, but I feel like I hit a brick wall.

I feel like my play is nothing but different neutral gimmicks carrying me and some fundamentals, and I'd like to bring other stuff to par.

 

[Schnizzle Fits]

Hey. don't feel down. Effort and time. I'm behind right now because I currently cannot travel much atm and our local tournament is taking a winter break. I'll be sure that I'll do fine as Roy but thats because nobody plays a competent Roy anywhere around my state as far as I know. Honestly for me Roy is my go to and Peach is my backup as Roy changed so much from any other characters previous incarnation. I spend more time playing Roy just because he's different and Peach changed so little.

If you think gimmicks are carrying you focus on your shield pressure then. I feel Roy's pressure to be pretty solid and fluid. If I space with a nair I normally go for the down tilt as its hard to punish and has just about the same range as nair. Sometimes I throw in a jab out if I think they'll try any fishy jump options. I find Roy's shield damage forces movement out of someone insanely well, mostly near the ledge where this sort of tactic shines. I've gotten many unexpected shield breaks from how much damage down tilt can damage a sheild and once the opponent is on to the damage down tilt can do (normally if they shield a second down tilt) they learn to fear that situation and sometimes make a panic roll. Once I figured this out I built my own flowchart of what I want and situations I like.

 

[EnGarde]

Admittedly, I somewhat feel like a weak player, and like a lot of what I do is aimless banter out of random passion and putting up a facade.

I feel really behind Serew and some others. I don't feel like I have the Roy-specific knowledge I need to really push the character and step up my game. Everyone's doing these sick things with uair and just having scary punishes in general and I feel really behind. Watching Ryo again at Submerged Smash makes me wonder this even more. I've been working on the character since June, but I don't feel like I've truly been working on the character like some others, and I'd like to find the essential boost or push to. I don't know if I have it within me, too. I feel like dead weight who isn't doing anything new for the character and like I'll never reach a point where I'll be needed for the push.

I feel like my 8 or so months of investment still lags behind secondary investment or 2-3 month investment from other players on character-specific things, and I'd like to do something about it asap, but I feel like I hit a brick wall.

I feel like my play is nothing but different neutral gimmicks carrying me and some fundamentals, and I'd like to bring other stuff to par.

If you wanted to do 1v1 practice sessions with him, you know he'd be up for it, right? He and I play every evening for fun and practice, and to unwind a bit, and I'm sure he'd play with you as well if you were interested in it. Both sides practice for improvement, and to train together, and both sides end up better for it.

EDIT: Also, you heavily undersell yourself, and I think having a strong neutral game is one of the most important qualities to have as a smash 4 player. You need to be able to consistently win exchanges in order to capitalize on good command of the advantage state.

EDIT2: I'd also be willing to play for fun and for practice, but I'm not as skilled as the other players here lol.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

Greetings Boyz, So I ran across Smash Corners new video giving his review on the Biduo Tech.
Here's the link for reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH528Pdh1Rk

While I had seen the Biduo Technique prior I wasn't sure on what the details behind it were.
Mostly a detailed description of the inputs needed to produce one of the many effects you can do with this control scheme.

I'm going to be using a Mixed control scheme to gain mostly the movement options that this offers.
Which will basically be normal Gamecube Controls expect that & will be set to special.

Roy in Melee and in Project M gains so much off Dash Dancing and Wavedashing,
these techniques being core to his gameplay can be brought back in.
Which we'll replace with Optimized Extended Dash Dancing & Crouching Perfect Pivots.

With the "Simpler" Biduo techniques offered by just giving our Left Shield and C stick we can gain the most without the having to go all into the technique if we aren't wanting to do this.

With Roy being so focused on fundamentals as a character I believe this set up will push our meta very far.
Roy gains more out of movement tech then most characters, with us being within the top percent of run speeds and with the unpredictable movement options at our hands we'll be able to squeeze mistakes out of our opponents at any level.

 

[The Merc]

Greetings Boyz, So I ran across Smash Corners new video giving his review on the Biduo Tech.
Here's the link for reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH528Pdh1Rk

While I had seen the Biduo Technique prior I wasn't sure on what the details behind it were.
Mostly a detailed description of the inputs needed to produce one of the many effects you can do with this control scheme.

I'm going to be using a Mixed control scheme to gain mostly the movement options that this offers.
Which will basically be normal Gamecube Controls expect that & will be set to special.

Roy in Melee and in Project M gains so much off Dash Dancing and Wavedashing,
these techniques being core to his gameplay can be brought back in.
Which we'll replace with Optimized Extended Dash Dancing & Crouching Perfect Pivots.

With the "Simpler" Biduo techniques offered by just giving our Left Shield and C stick we can gain the most without the having to go all into the technique if we aren't wanting to do this.

With Roy being so focused on fundamentals as a character I believe this set up will push our meta very far.
Roy gains more out of movement tech then most characters, with us being within the top percent of run speeds and with the unpredictable movement options at our hands we'll be able to squeeze mistakes out of our opponents at any level.

I was watching this video earlier and this looks like it would really advance Smash 4 (though from some reason I can see Sakurai easily patching this out. Though hopefully he won't)

However, I have trouble accepting this because it seems to require me to change my control set up. And not just minorly, but drastically. I already have trouble with with advance characters like Melee Fox or Sheik but this would do my head in.

I mean, I didn't get to watch the whole video, so maybe he mention a version were I can still get benefits from this with out have to basically over haul my entire control lay out.

 

[The Merc]

I know this is a double post, but check this out!

ROY FIRE EMBLEM FATES STYLE!!!! (Fan art version)

 

[Serew]

Admittedly, I somewhat feel like a weak player, and like a lot of what I do is aimless banter out of random passion and putting up a facade.

I feel really behind Serew and some others. I don't feel like I have the Roy-specific knowledge I need to really push the character and step up my game. Everyone's doing these sick things with uair and just having scary punishes in general and I feel really behind. Watching Ryo again at Submerged Smash makes me wonder this even more. I've been working on the character since June, but I don't feel like I've truly been working on the character like some others, and I'd like to find the essential boost or push to. I don't know if I have it within me, too. I feel like dead weight who isn't doing anything new for the character and like I'll never reach a point where I'll be needed for the push.

I feel like my 8 or so months of investment still lags behind secondary investment or 2-3 month investment from other players on character-specific things, and I'd like to do something about it asap, but I feel like I hit a brick wall.

I feel like my play is nothing but different neutral gimmicks carrying me and some fundamentals, and I'd like to bring other stuff to par.

If you wanted to do 1v1 practice sessions with him, you know he'd be up for it, right? He and I play every evening for fun and practice, and to unwind a bit, and I'm sure he'd play with you as well if you were interested in it. Both sides practice for improvement, and to train together, and both sides end up better for it.

Yep what EnGarde said I would definitely be up for some practice matches!
Believe me, you really aren't behind on many people! I've played a bunch of Roys and keep an eye out on most Roys, and i think you're still one of the better ones. Besides, We all have alot of room left for improvement, i can't say i've ever seen a close to mastered Roy anywhere
I think your neutral is good, where as mine is not very good. And then my combo game is better as an example, that's where we learn from eachother! :D
Besides, you're fun to play with and that's most important to me when it comes to practicing. I really don't like it if people are super serious and go for results in online and friendlies, which you don't. :D
Anyways, Feel free to ask me if you want to play (i am ofc easier to contact on discord) and i'll see if i have time and will make some time if i can (Timezones are ofc a bit annoying but we'll manage )

 

[Tahu Mata]

Hey there, everyone. How you've all been doing? School's been a bit of a pain, but I'm getting a hold of it. I'm getting a couple days off, so I'll be able to be more active during this time.

As for me, I just got Pokken not too long ago and have been playing quite a bit of it. I'll be getting Roy's amiibo as soon as I have the money too.

 

[HermitHelmet]

Hey there, everyone. How you've all been doing? School's been a bit of a pain, but I'm getting a hold of it. I'm getting a couple days off, so I'll be able to be more active during this time.

As for me, I just got Pokken not too long ago and have been playing quite a bit of it. I'll be getting Roy's amiibo as soon as I have the money too.

Doing good, finals coming over the next 12 weeks, time for lotsa fun ahead.

 

[EnGarde]

I was thinking about experimenting with bidou, but I'm worried that if I try to focus too much on optional advanced techs at this point my time focusing on building fundamentals, especially since it requires special controls. idk yet lol.

I also have Pokken, though I'm still a bit of a casual there lol. If anyone wants to play, I'd be up for it. I'm maining gardevoir there.

 

[LancerStaff]

How much you want to bet that they got the majority of their opinions from someone else and not because they did their research? I highly doubt those guys have seen or played a good Roy before. Roy may not be top or maybe even high tier, but I highly doubt he is low tier. Just ignore them and play the character. Before any character gets big, there will be a few detractors saying that they're not worth using. If you are so keen on developing Roy's meta, then don't listen to them.

It is not wise to speak of somebody you know nothing of. Little do you know I did some Roy work early on, mostly debunking training mode combos. I most certainly have done the research.

Mostly I came here out of curiosity after the conversation in the Pit social, but also because of what I've heard from other parts of Smashboards as of late. Roy's defenders both here and on reddit are frequent sources of noobs to shame, and from what I can tell there's not many people supporting Roy that are making any effort to clear up misinformation. It's important to know what your character can do, yes, but also what they can't. Main example, Roy's punish game. It's not the best in the game, it's not top five, it's not top ten, and it's not even top fifteen. Myself I doubt it's even top twenty but that's not my point. People would be more supportive of Roy and his community if people were more honest about what the character is capable of. People don't pick on character communities such as DDD and Zelda's because for the most part they'll fully admit their character is garbage. I'm not saying the Roy community needs to immediately come out and say he's terrible but people would be much more tolerant if the Roy community itself were to at least tolerate that people are hesitant to put him in even lower mid tier and quelled the more outrageous claims instead of letting them fester.

This is all I have to say on the matter, and unless you have something particularly good to say I'll be leaving.

 

[Lady Kuki]

It is not wise to speak of somebody you know nothing of. Little do you know I did some Roy work early on, mostly debunking training mode combos. I most certainly have done the research.

Mostly I came here out of curiosity after the conversation in the Pit social, but also because of what I've heard from other parts of Smashboards as of late. Roy's defenders both here and on reddit are frequent sources of noobs to shame, and from what I can tell there's not many people supporting Roy that are making any effort to clear up misinformation. It's important to know what your character can do, yes, but also what they can't. Main example, Roy's punish game. It's not the best in the game, it's not top five, it's not top ten, and it's not even top fifteen. Myself I doubt it's even top twenty but that's not my point. People would be more supportive of Roy and his community if people were more honest about what the character is capable of. People don't pick on character communities such as DDD and Zelda's because for the most part they'll fully admit their character is garbage. I'm not saying the Roy community needs to immediately come out and say he's terrible but people would be much more tolerant if the Roy community itself were to at least tolerate that people are hesitant to put him in even lower mid tier and quelled the more outrageous claims instead of letting them fester.

This is all I have to say on the matter, and unless you have something particularly good to say I'll be leaving.

Well I didn't know it was you that said this. I do respect your opinion. I don't think he's the best either. He does certainly have flaws, although I'm not sure how much it affects him. I was just trying to lighten up the guy who said this.

I don't like making myself look like an idiot. I apologize if I insulted you or anything. I'll admit that I don't have much knowledge about the game. Corrections are certainly appreciated.

 

[LancerStaff]

Well I didn't know it was you that said this. I do respect your opinion. I don't think he's the best either. He does certainly have flaws, although I'm not sure how much it affects him. I was just trying to lighten up the guy who said this.

I don't like making myself look like an idiot. I apologize if I insulted you or anything. I'll admit that I don't have much knowledge about the game. Corrections are certainly appreciated.

Sorry, only the first bit was directed at you. Everything else is aimed at the resulting conversation. Not really here to name names...

No apologies are necessary, but you should be more careful in the future because you might end up upsetting the wrong person.

 

[The Merc]

It is not wise to speak of somebody you know nothing of. Little do you know I did some Roy work early on, mostly debunking training mode combos. I most certainly have done the research.

Mostly I came here out of curiosity after the conversation in the Pit social, but also because of what I've heard from other parts of Smashboards as of late. Roy's defenders both here and on reddit are frequent sources of noobs to shame, and from what I can tell there's not many people supporting Roy that are making any effort to clear up misinformation. It's important to know what your character can do, yes, but also what they can't. Main example, Roy's punish game. It's not the best in the game, it's not top five, it's not top ten, and it's not even top fifteen. Myself I doubt it's even top twenty but that's not my point. People would be more supportive of Roy and his community if people were more honest about what the character is capable of. People don't pick on character communities such as DDD and Zelda's because for the most part they'll fully admit their character is garbage. I'm not saying the Roy community needs to immediately come out and say he's terrible but people would be much more tolerant if the Roy community itself were to at least tolerate that people are hesitant to put him in even lower mid tier and quelled the more outrageous claims instead of letting them fester.

This is all I have to say on the matter, and unless you have something particularly good to say I'll be leaving.

You're right. Roy does have his limits and we should accept that. And we are learning to and learning to build him around those.

However, this is a two way street. People need to be just a bit more respectful of Roy and rather than just say 'His low tier cause lol', actually do research and understand the character more before coming to an conclusions, not unlike you atm.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

It is not wise to speak of somebody you know nothing of. Little do you know I did some Roy work early on, mostly debunking training mode combos. I most certainly have done the research.

Mostly I came here out of curiosity after the conversation in the Pit social, but also because of what I've heard from other parts of Smashboards as of late. Roy's defenders both here and on reddit are frequent sources of noobs to shame, and from what I can tell there's not many people supporting Roy that are making any effort to clear up misinformation. It's important to know what your character can do, yes, but also what they can't. Main example, Roy's punish game. It's not the best in the game, it's not top five, it's not top ten, and it's not even top fifteen. Myself I doubt it's even top twenty but that's not my point. People would be more supportive of Roy and his community if people were more honest about what the character is capable of. People don't pick on character communities such as DDD and Zelda's because for the most part they'll fully admit their character is garbage. I'm not saying the Roy community needs to immediately come out and say he's terrible but people would be much more tolerant if the Roy community itself were to at least tolerate that people are hesitant to put him in even lower mid tier and quelled the more outrageous claims instead of letting them fester.

This is all I have to say on the matter, and unless you have something particularly good to say I'll be leaving.

I can't take you seriously with "some Roy work early on, mostly debunking training mode combos." That shows me you know nothing of how the character actually works, you seem like one of those people who hyped him up for 1-2 weeks and thought he was garbage because he was too difficult for you to innovate. You put no real investment into Roy and it easily shows. My Roy in June/July was far worse than what I can do now, it'd be embarrassing to look back on, so I'm not putting any stock into "some Roy work early on." I was passionate about the character, so someone like you who was so easy to drop him after no real work probably doesn't have anything worth hearing about him. No wonder why you don't think his punish game is good. Fun fact, the training mode combos that were debunked don't mean anything in the face of his crazy amount of setups and frame traps, and he still has a lot of insane guaranteed stuff, none of which you'd know about with your lack of investment and knowledge.
I'm sorry that you put little work into a character who wasn't developed at all in the summer and didn't get anything out of it, I wish I could emphasize with you more on that.

Anyways, please don't post here anymore, we don't want the Roy community becoming toxic, as tempted as I am to nab easy copypasta replies. I'm not going to condone you telling us to drop our optimism or hope. I'm sorry that we're allowed to claim our punishes are good and that we don't admit who we play is garbage on our own boards just because some aggressors would have a pouty attitude and throw a hissy fit otherwise. We are honest of what the character is capable of because our character's good, we're just not weak-willed fools who listen to people with absolutely no credibility or basis like you.

Everyone here, please don't listen to this fool, give into negativity, or give him the benefit of the doubt, keep pushing your character and don't let people like this aggress onto your boards.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Anyways, I feel like I'm aggressive too much here and on the Discord chat and make people uncomfortable, so I'm probably going to avoid socializing on these except for matches. After seeing how my post was received on Discord, and how this has probably happened a bunch, yeah.

 

[The Merc]

I can't take you seriously with "some Roy work early on, mostly debunking training mode combos." That shows me you know nothing of how the character actually works, you seem like one of those people who hyped him up for 1-2 weeks and thought he was garbage because he was too difficult for you to innovate. You put no real investment into Roy and it easily shows. My Roy in June/July was far worse than what I can do now, it'd be embarrassing to look back on, so I'm not putting any stock into "some Roy work early on." I was passionate about the character, so someone like you who was so easy to drop him after no real work probably doesn't have anything worth hearing about him. No wonder why you don't think his punish game is good. Fun fact, the training mode combos that were debunked don't mean anything in the face of his crazy amount of setups and frame traps, and he still has a lot of insane guaranteed stuff, none of which you'd know about with your lack of investment and knowledge.
I'm sorry that you put little work into a character who wasn't developed at all in the summer and didn't get anything out of it, I wish I could emphasize with you more on that.

Anyways, please don't post here anymore, we don't want the Roy community becoming toxic, as tempted as I am to nab easy copypasta replies. I'm not going to condone you telling us to drop our optimism or hope. I'm sorry that we're allowed to claim our punishes are good and that we don't admit who we play is garbage on our own boards just because some aggressors would have a pouty attitude and throw a hissy fit otherwise. We are honest of what the character is capable of because our character's good, we're just not weak-willed fools who listen to people with absolutely no credibility or basis like you.

Everyone here, please don't listen to this fool, give into negativity, or give him the benefit of the doubt, keep pushing your character and don't let people like this aggress onto your boards.

DAM SON!!!!

Though I would like to clarify that (even if it looks like I was) I'm not giving into the negativy. I'm still going to play Roy not matter what he says. I'm just a very on the fence person and at times will look at both points of an argument and see the pros and cons.

That aside, I 200% agree with you.

 

[The Merc]

Anyways, I feel like I'm aggressive too much here and on the Discord chat and make people uncomfortable, so I'm probably going to avoid socializing on these except for matches. After seeing how my post was received on Discord, and how this has probably happened a bunch, yeah.

No....

Don't leave :'(