Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Bajef8]

I think Big the Cat would be a great character for SSB4. I think he really represents what the Sonic series is all about, and Sonic, having been in 2 Smash games now, easily deserves a 2nd rep, as it's one of the best Nintendo series out there.

You don't count, you've made logical debates in the past, and are one of the only respectable YouTube Smash speculators. I've been watching your videos since before you came on the forums. Plus you be trollin

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think Big the Cat would be a great character for SSB4. I think he really represents what the Sonic series is all about, and Sonic, having been in 2 Smash games now, easily deserves a 2nd rep, as it's one of the best Nintendo series out there.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Easily grumpy are you..

I'm not grumpy. While you have good reasons to back Anna up, there's only one reason she won't get in: not THE main character(s). In the series. What did she do? A supporting role that is all I need to explain.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

While pre-Brawl was worse with most of the franchises discussed as far as getting "reps", Metroid I think is one of the ones that has gotten even worse since after pre-Brawl. Going from Ridley vs Dark Samus likelihood debates, to Ridley vs ****ing Anthony Higgs.

 

[BKupa666]

I think Big the Cat would be a great character for SSB4. I think he really represents what the Sonic series is all about, and Sonic, having been in 2 Smash games now, easily deserves a 2nd rep, as it's one of the best Nintendo series out there.

You're really fishing for compliments with this one.

 

[ChronoBound]

to Ridley vs ****ing Anthony Higgs.

To be fair, that's pretty much the same with the Impa "debates" (one guy who never shuts up).

 

[Ridley_Prime]

True. It's a blight, a cancer among the Metroid and Zelda related discussions here.

 

[FlareHabanero]

True. It's a blight, a cancer among the Metroid and Zelda related discussions here.

Still doesn't beat Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

**** Fire Emblem discussions especially, no one wins with that.

 

[Zhadgon]

Dude, you don't understand. Sakurai DOES NOT have the final say. Not even Kojima. They both have to go to the higher ups at Nintendo and Konami. It doesn't if they're the best of friends- that's irrelevant. It may seem Sakurai has the last words what happens in the project, but that doesn't give him the right to bypass Nintendo or Konami for proper licensing. Sakurai EVEN has to go through The Pokemon Company to get permission to use Pokemon characters.

It doesn't matter if Snake will bring more hype or not. Licensing. LICENSING determines that for 3rd party characters. Your example of an embassy is not a good analogy. Konami wouldn't care if Snake was "removed" from the Smash Bros. series because they're not working under Nintendo.

If you Snake fans don't see how licensing works, then I really don't know what to tell you folks.

And then you shouldn´t know how Licensing works because if Sakurai has pulled two characters now into Smash and in the past he did it with Snake, what is stopping Sakurai to do it again, you haven´answered that. Licensing is NOT A BIG PROBLEM as to what you make it be, Konami is not hating Nintendo and Nintendo is not hating Konami, Kojima by far has a greater role in Konami of what you think, you are underrating the power of Sakurai and Kojima with their respective companies and that is something you should not do when making that statement.
.n_n.

 

[?????????????]

Still doesn't beat Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

**** Fire Emblem discussions, especially, no one wins with that.

I want Chrom! I want Roy! I want Anna! I want Hector! I want Lyn! I want Tharja! I want Tiki! I want Shiida! I want Henry! I want Sigurd! I want Elincia! I want Ephraim! I want Leaf! I want Zelgius!

 

[jaytalks]

I'm not grumpy. While you have good reasons to back Anna up, there's only one reason she won't get in: not THE main character(s). In the series. What did she do? A supporting role that is all I need to explain.

Fire Emblem can operate differently than other series, should Sakurai go down that path. The Pokemon reps have never been the main characters, since the beginning.

 

[Bajef8]

Jigglypuff, I mean Pokemon discussion hurts my head. And makes me wanna cry every time I see Jiggs on the list of people they think will/should be cut.

 

[jaytalks]

Still doesn't beat Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

**** Fire Emblem discussions especially, no one wins with that.

the key for any discussion is to not take it too seriously. no matter what side of the argument you are on. we are all just speculating on roughly the same amount of information.

 

[FinalStarmen]

On a semi-related note regarding pre-Brawl:

To the pre-Brawl spectators - when R.O.B. was unexpectedly revealed, what exactly was the distinctive atmosphere like? From what I heard, it was abrasively intolerable, yet I would rather hear from those who bore witness to these events.

 

[Bajef8]

the key for any discussion is to not take it too seriously. no matter what side of the argument you are on. we are all just speculating on roughly the same amount of information.

No the real key is to not get annoyed when someone brings up irrational, illogical points and keeps trying to argue using the same ones over and over.

 

[?????????????]

On a semi-related note regarding pre-Brawl:

To the pre-Brawl spectators - when R.O.B. was unexpectedly revealed, what exactly was the distinctive atmosphere like? From what I heard, it was abrasively intolerable, yet I would rather hear from those who bore witness to these events.

The quote I remember was...

"****ING ROB!!? WHY NOT RIDLEY? WHY NOT K. ROOL? WHY SAKURAI! **** THIS! WHAT IS HE ****ING THINKING?!"

...Wasn't me. I just remember that.

 

[FlareHabanero]

the key for any discussion is to not take it too seriously. no matter what side of the argument you are on. we are all just speculating on roughly the same amount of information.

...And supposedly that makes everything better?

 

[?????????????]

Ultimately, it wasn't that people didn't like R.O.B. per se, but that R.O.B. was chosen over other people's favorite/most anticipated character.

 

[Starphoenix]

To be honest, at this point in the Super Smash Bros life cycle there hasn't appeared to be as much character discussion as with Brawl during the same time. Period. Probably has a lot to do with the fact that we're approaching a forty character roster now. Many of the characters people wanted then are playable now, and not many others have risen to the heights of previous characters.

 

[Bajef8]

The quote I remember was...

"****ING ROB!!? WHY NOT RIDLEY? WHY NOT K. ROOL? WHY SAKURAI! **** THIS! WHAT IS HE ****ING THINKING?!"

...Wasn't me. I just remember that.

I remember those reactions lol.

On a semi-related note regarding pre-Brawl:

To the pre-Brawl spectators - when R.O.B. was unexpectedly revealed, what exactly was the distinctive atmosphere like? From what I heard, it was abrasively intolerable, yet I would rather hear from those who bore witness to these events.

I was gonna say it was similar to Wii Fit Trainer. But with more anger, and less people thinking it was kinda funny and unique. Probably cuz people found out about him on release day in Japan, meaning their beloved such and such didn't make it. But there is still hope for others now even if Ms. Trainer is in.

 

[Morbi]

Ultimately, it wasn't that people didn't like R.O.B. per se, but that R.O.B. was chosen over other people's favorite/most anticipated character.

I didn't like R.O.B at all, not because he took a slot from a character I was expecting. I actually wasn't big into speculation back then. R.O.B just sucks (in my opinion).

 

[κomıc]

And then you shouldn´t know how Licensing works because if Sakurai has pulled two characters now into Smash and in the past he did it with Snake, what is stopping Sakurai to do it again, you haven´answered that. Licensing is NOT A BIG PROBLEM as to what you make it be, Konami is not hating Nintendo and Nintendo is not hating Konami, Kojima by far has a greater role in Konami of what you think, you are underrating the power of Sakurai and Kojima with their respective companies and that is something you should not miss when making that statement.
.n_n.

I do know how licensing works, hun.

Sakurai didn't pull off the licensing or negotiations. That was all Nintendo, SEGA and Konami. The parent companies funding these games are the reasons characters make it in. Not because Sakurai sits there and says "I want Bomberman in the game, so I'll just ask the creator to give me permission"

That's not how it goes. You're simplifying the process significantly.

Don't sit there and say I have not answered your question as to what is stopping Sakurai from getting Snake in Smash 4 again.

Let me do this:

Licensing. NINTENDO. KONAMI.

These are the three hurdles Sakurai and Kojima must overcome before such a thing ever happens. Even if Kojima and Sakurai get married, Konami still has the final word on whether or not they want to license Snake out to Nintendo or not. Sakurai doesn't have complete control over any negotiations the people in suits do.

I never once claimed that Konami was hating on Nintendo or vice versa because it's not that simple. If both parties don't have a strong business relationship, that can greatly impact any chance of Snake making it into Smash 4. Konami has the rights to the intellectual property. Kojima, doesn't. Kojima was even set to move on from MGS and even then, Konami can hire studio to make the next MGS game if they so choose.

You're overly simplifying the situation. I'm just stating hard facts on how the process goes. Let me emphasize:

Sakurai doesn't have the final word. Sakurai doesn't negotiate the process with Nintendo and Konami. Sakurai and Sora Ltd. do not publish the Smash Bros games. Sakurai doesn't own the Smash Bros. IP. Nintendo does.

Nintendo is funding and paying Sora Ltd and every related party (Bamco Studios) developing Smash Bros.

Nintendo has the money. Nintendo and any other 3rd party related to a negotiation regarding a character have the FINAL word on whether such character will be featured in Smash Bros.

If you understand this, then you're golden. I don't want to see anyone cut from Smash Bros. including Snake. It's the licensing. That's the biggest hurdle Sakurai (and Kojima, I guess) will have to over come. If you really desperately want Snake back in Smash Bros, go tweet to Konami and Kojima, email them- show them you want Snake back. Companies and parties have been using social media to gather feedback from fans and consumers. Instead of bickering on Smashboards and declaring Snake is so safe, take action.

 

[jaytalks]

...And supposedly that makes everything better?

There's no point in just saying **** every time a conversation comes up that you don't like. If you don't like it, avoid it. I guarantee that will make everything better.

 

[FlareHabanero]

There's no point in just saying **** every time a conversation comes up that you don't like. If you don't like it, avoid it. I guarantee that will make everything better.

Right. Better. Keep saying that, it might work eventually.

 

[Morbi]

Right. Better. Keep saying that, it might work eventually.

What are you getting at? He is just saying that not participating in a detrimental conversation that you don't want to participate in will save you some stress and/or brain cells.

 

[BKupa666]

ROB was revealed during a time when people honestly weren't expecting the inclusion of a shock character, and when they were expecting a larger roster...basically, what our predictions for roster sizes are now, many people were predicting for Brawl due to letting their hype get out of hand. There's also that people legitimately thought ROB had been deconfirmed due to the presence of ROB enemies in the SSE, and people don't generally like being blindsided; turns out, those ROBs were there because of the playable Ancient Minister ROB, funnily enough.

This is based off of my observations as an obsessive lurker at the time; I joined months later that August.

 

[Alex Night]

Shantae for Smash Bros for 3DS/Wii U please. Unfortunately, that doesn't look like it will happen but she would make sense in the Smash Bros environment in my mind at least. Her hair whip as an Ftilt, her specials dabbling with fire magic and maybe monkey transformation with Down B? (that's all I can think of at the moment.) If not, I always have my Mega Man vs Sonic Dream Match.

 

[ChronoBound]

On a semi-related note regarding pre-Brawl:

To the pre-Brawl spectators - when R.O.B. was unexpectedly revealed, what exactly was the distinctive atmosphere like? From what I heard, it was abrasively intolerable, yet I would rather hear from those who bore witness to these events.

It was a meltdown. For myself, I was just disappointed that Ridley wasn't in. Not angry, just disappointed. I had a bad feeling that the "leaked roster" I put together from several vindicated leakers was going to end up being the real deal, but I personally wished it wouldn't be so because it would mean I would have to wait at least another five years for Ridley.

I personally didn't mind ROB at the time. I thought Sakurai was probably going to go again with another sort of bizarre retro character like he did with Mr. Game & Watch with Melee. I was more disappointed (not angry) that Toon Link was simply another Young Link and didn't bring in his cool tools from Wind Waker such as the Deku Leaf, Grappling Hook, Skull Hammer, or Hurricane Spin.

However, for many other people, they sweared how it was the worst roster ever. The thing is though, the roster basically had nearly all characters that were popular choices. The only exceptions were Snake, Zero Suit Samus, ROB, and Pokemon Trainer. Every other character was someone who had quite a bit of requests.

Compare that with Smash 4 where the only newcomer so far that has not come in with a mixed reception is Mega Man.

Brawl truly was the most "golden" Smash Bros. in terms of newcomer selection since the original. Its primary problems were with everything else.

 

[Bajef8]

Giant Text Wall

So in short, Snake's biggest obstacle for returning is licensing. Which most of us believe anyway.

However, I highly doubt it will even be an issue for reasons I explained a few pages back and don't feel like regurgitating.

 

[jaytalks]

Pokemon Trainer also included Charizard, which was and is still super popular.

I love ROB. Probably me second favorite newcomer from Brawl, just based on the reveal. I still want a WTF retro character this time around.

 

[FlareHabanero]

What are you getting at? He is just saying that not participating in a detrimental conversation that you don't want to participate in will save you some stress and/or brain cells.

Because, again, that is magically going to solve every problem and suddenly everyone is going to have a Happy Happy Kawaii Desu Tea Time Party.

 

[ChronoBound]

To be honest, at this point in the Super Smash Bros life cycle there hasn't appeared to be as much character discussion as with Brawl during the same time. Period. Probably has a lot to do with the fact that we're approaching a forty character roster now. Many of the characters people wanted then are playable now, and not many others have risen to the heights of previous characters.

You are pretty much right. Just look at how there are only three new popularly requested characters (Palutena, Shulk, Chrom) compared the kind of new characters that popped up between Melee and Brawl.

Most of the most wanted newcomers for Smash 4 are retreads from pre-Brawl, and two of the Top 5 are even Melee veterans. Throwing out the Melee veterans, you are only left with three characters that there appears to be a passion for that mirrors what we saw with pre-Brawl, Ridley, K. Rool, and Little Mac (and maaaybe Paltuena).

I mean I don't think there would be anger if Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Dixie Kong, Isaac, Shulk, Chrom, Toad, Krystal, or Waluigi didn't make it in Smash 4.

The only three newcomers this time I can actually see people being upset with their exclusion would be the three mentioned above (Ridley, K. Rool, Little Mac, and a maybe to Palutena).

 

[Starphoenix]

You are pretty much right. Just look at how there are only three new popularly requested characters (Palutena, Shulk, Chrom) compared the kind of new characters that popped up between Melee and Brawl.

Most of the most wanted newcomers for Smash 4 are retreads from pre-Brawl, and two of the Top 5 are even Melee veterans. Throwing out the Melee veterans, you are only left with three characters that there appears to be a passion for that mirrors what we saw with pre-Brawl, Ridley, K. Rool, and Little Mac (and maaaybe Paltuena).

I mean I don't think there would be anger if Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Dixie Kong, Isaac, Shulk, Chrom, Toad, Krystal, or Waluigi didn't make it in Smash 4.

The only three newcomers this time I can actually see people being upset with their exclusion would be the three mentioned above (Ridley, K. Rool, Little Mac, and a maybe to Palutena).

Reading between the lines of Sakurai's comments on why he selected Megaman, it sort of aludes to the fact that even he recognizes he barrel isn't as big now as it was then, which prompted him to go after Megaman now when he did not before. I believe this will give Sakurai a lot more liberty in selecting characters this time than any game in the past, because its clear he cannot help himself when it comes to adding content. Maybe we'll see more characters that go against Smashboards logic; heck, maybe we'll even see a couple more guests beyond what any of us are expecting (hesitant saying that though since someone will invariably take it to an extreme).

 

[ChronoBound]

The outrage about Brawl's roster was about who didn't make it.
The outrage about Smash 4's roster will be about who DID make it (shades of Melee).

Invariably, if the first three newcomers are anything to go by (as well as three "rumored" newcomers), Sakurai is probably going for characters that he thinks are most recognizable to the largest audience, whether or not they have a fighting nature to them.

 

[Bajef8]

Reading between the lines of Sakurai's comments on why he selected Megaman, it sort of aludes to the fact that even he recognizes he barrel isn't as big now as it was then, which prompted him to go after Megaman now when he did not before. I believe this will give Sakurai a lot more liberty in selecting characters this time than any game in the past, because its clear he cannot help himself when it comes to adding content. Maybe we'll see more characters that go against Smashboards logic; heck, maybe we'll even see a couple more guests beyond what any of us are expecting (hesitant saying that though since someone will invariably take it to an extreme).

Well really no one can take your last comment to an extreme. Sakurai himself said he won't just add 3rd parties willy nilly. They have to be worthy so to speak. He recognizes the fact that this is a Nintendo fighter, which is why the 3rd parties have so much going against them. They have to be big, iconic. Or besties with Sakurai in Snake's case. That's why there won't be more than 3-4 3rd parties period.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Still doesn't beat Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

**** Fire Emblem discussions especially, no one wins with that.

True, nothing compares to the Pokemon and Fire Emblem cluster****s in the end, but if pre-SSB4 speculation has taught me anything, it's that it only takes one person to make discussing certain other franchises a cancerous bloom, in the case of Zelda and Metroid.

I see the Snake and licensing argument still wages on...

 

[SuperBrawler]

I see you guys are finally over that Toad discussion.

 

[BKupa666]

We'll definitely get a better feel for how newcomers were chosen this time around once more are revealed. None of Mega Man (popular third party), Villager (prominent new series robbed of a character in Brawl due to creative limitations), and WFT (token shock character) would be out of place on a previous roster, it's just the fact that those specific characters were revealed early that's throwing people off.

 

[jaytalks]

Well really no one can take your last comment to an extreme. Sakurai himself said he won't just add 3rd parties willy nilly. They have to be worthy so to speak. He recognizes the fact that this is a Nintendo fighter, which is why the 3rd parties have so much going against them. They have to be big, iconic. Or besties with Sakurai in Snake's case. That's why there won't be more than 3-4 3rd parties period.

As much as I hate to admit it, Snake is also the de facto face of Konami. So he's a very reasonable add. Very iconic character, even if his connection to Nintendo is so strong.

Mega Man was the face of Capcom before they went crazy and Sonic is Sega, quite literally now.

Third party characters should be the face of their companies. Because that means they are icons.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Did I miss anything? (Other than Toad discussion?)