Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[FlareHabanero]

DON'T YOU DARE SAY IT YOU SON OF A B*TCH

 

[SuperBrawler]

I mostly have a fear of it being locked for it being a 'duplicate' toad thread.

There's a Mii-yamoto thread, and my Nikki thread.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Deity, I have to respectfully disagree with your view on Waluigi.

Jigglypuff was a huge icon in Japan. She was very relevant in the first half of the anime, and despite not being around and relevant, she'll still be remembered and regarded as a great Pokemon icon.

Waluigi isn't all that prominent. He's known only as a spin-off character. Only true Mario fans will know who he is. Most people know who Jigglypuff is. Waluigi was also never prominent in the Mario series. Most people know Bowser, Luigi, Peach, and of course Mario. And maybe Wario. People probably never know who Waluigi is unless they're familiar of who they are.

What about Bowser Jr.?

 

[Depressed Gengar]

DON'T YOU DARE SAY IT YOU SON OF A B*TCH

YOU'RE TOO SLOW!!

 

[Metal Overlord]

playing the Devil's Advocate here

I find it interesting how he specifically said Peach's moveset isn't finalized for the Toad pic

and not any other pic

correct me if I'm wrong about the last part, though

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

YOU'RE TOO SLOW!!

Or it could just be

You're too slow!



Edit: Dammit! I was too slow with posting that.

All kidding aside, it does move very fast. On the subject of Toad, I think it's still a possibility of him being included due to Sakurai's comments. However, it could also mean something entirely different. I wouldn't mind Toad though. He is one if the characters I've started warming up to, along with Waluigi and Paper Mario.

I have a bad cough.

*cough*youre to slow*cough cough*

Well then...

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Waluigi =/= Jigglypuff

 

[TumblrFamous]

What about Bowser Jr.?

...got me there.

Honestly, we definitely don't need a Mario newcomer. But if we did, I think it should be the most prominent characters next in line. In this case, it would be the second most prominent villain, Bowser Jr., one of the few all-stars left in Toad, or another popular, unique Mario that has been around for over 10 years.

I think it's up to either Bowser Jr. or Toad, two Mario characters that have been in the main Mario platformers for a while now.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Well then...

Let's tone up those legs.

 

[Starcutter]

DON'T YOU DARE SAY IT YOU SON OF A B*TCH

gotta go fast!

 

[κomıc]

Uh based on what exactly?

If you followed Nintendo and their situation, you would know the answer.

But let me shed light:

Konami was disappointed with their software sales on Wii (honestly, they didn't make much on Wii so I don't know what the problem is) and don't want to bother investing in bringing the Fox Engine to Wii U for whatever reason. Most likely having to do with sales. I think they're skipping PES on Wii U also...

But if look at Capcom and SEGA, you'd see the complete opposite in how they're embracing Nintendo. Capcom bringing the Monster Hunter series to 3DS with MH4 performing extremely well, satisfied with how well RE Revelations performed on 3DS, a new Ace Attorney- just good support.

Nintendo vows to fund and publish Bayonetta 2 as well as co-publish Mario&Sonic At The Sochi Olympic games (before, SEGA had to take the burden of spending loads of money on licensing the Super Mario Bros intellectual property and it was apparently a real hefty fee) and etc.

What you see with Capcom and SEGA, you do see with Konami. Of course, this is just my observation, but it's pretty telling on the current situation and that Snake's fate doesn't lie in Sakurai's or Nintendo's hands.

It's all on Konami.

But things aren't really looking good for Snake unless Nintendo and Konami are negotiating something. You just need to look beyond Smash Bros.

I would like Snake back, but I'm doubting it.

Back in 2005, Konami and Nintendo had a fantastic relationship.

It is 2013 now. Things have change. A lot.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If you followed Nintendo and their situation, you would know the answer.

But let me shed light:

Konami was disappointed with their software sales on Wii (honestly, they didn't make much on Wii so I don't know what the problem is) and don't want to bother investing in bringing the Fox Engine to Wii U for whatever reason. Most likely having to do with sales. I think they're skipping PES on Wii U also...

But if look at Capcom and SEGA, you'd see the complete opposite in how they're embracing Nintendo. Capcom bringing the Monster Hunter series to 3DS with MH4 performing extremely well, satisfied with how well RE Revelations performed on 3DS, a new Ace Attorney- just good support.

Nintendo vows to fund and publish Bayonetta 2 as well as co-publish Mario&Sonic At The Sochi Olympic games (before, SEGA had to take the burden of spending loads of money on licensing the Super Mario Bros intellectual property and it was apparently a real hefty fee) and etc.

What you see with Capcom and SEGA, you do see with Konami. Of course, this is just my observation, but it's pretty telling on the current situation and that Snake's fate doesn't lie in Sakurai's or Nintendo's hands.

It's all on Konami.

But things aren't really looking good for Snake unless Nintendo and Konami are negotiating something. You just need to look beyond Smash Bros.

I would like Snake back, but I'm doubting it.

Back in 2005, Konami and Nintendo had a fantastic relationship.

It is 2013 now. Things have change. A lot.

I don't see how this is all that much different from before Brawl.

 

[BKupa666]

I doubt Toad based on the precedent of him being shown the exact same way when Peach was revealed pre-Brawl and people still pretending he had a chance using the exact same arguments. Could things change? Sure. But until they do, I'll happily remain skeptical. I detach myself from character analysis, so I don't care about being proven wrong.

What grinds my gears a bit is people tying him to characters like K. Rool and Ridley in pretending he's on their level as desirable newcomers, and saying, if he's not in, then those two are unlikely as well. Toad is a blank slate with far too little obvious appeal to gain support anywhere near comparable to that of those two. He's First Party Pacman, in that regard.

 

[Starcutter]

What grinds my gears a bit is people tying him to characters like K. Rool and Ridley in pretending he's on their level as desirable newcomers,

maybe not desireable, but definitely iconic.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

ALRIGHT YOU ALL OVERLOOKED IT. POSTING. AGAIN

 

[FlareHabanero]

I doubt Toad based on the precedent of him being shown the exact same way when Peach was revealed pre-Brawl and people still pretending he had a chance using the exact same arguments. Could things change? Sure. But until they do, I'll happily remain skeptical. I detach myself from character analysis, so I don't care about being proven wrong.

This is pretty much why I'm already jumping on board on the notion that Toad is not playable.

Deny it all you want, but history loves to repeat itself all the time.

 

[BKupa666]

maybe not desireable, but definitely iconic.

I'll openly admit he's among, if not the most iconic Nintendo character not playable. And yet it doesn't translate to solid support amongst Smash fans. If it did, he'd be on the level of pre-Brawl Wario. But he's not. He's First Party Pacman.

 

[Zhadgon]

If you followed Nintendo and their situation, you would know the answer.

But let me shed light:

Konami was disappointed with their software sales on Wii (honestly, they didn't make much on Wii so I don't know what the problem is) and don't want to bother investing in bringing the Fox Engine to Wii U for whatever reason. Most likely having to do with sales. I think they're skipping PES on Wii U also...

But if look at Capcom and SEGA, you'd see the complete opposite in how they're embracing Nintendo. Capcom bringing the Monster Hunter series to 3DS with MH4 performing extremely well, satisfied with how well RE Revelations performed on 3DS, a new Ace Attorney- just good support.

Nintendo vows to fund and publish Bayonetta 2 as well as co-publish Mario&Sonic At The Sochi Olympic games (before, SEGA had to take the burden of spending loads of money on licensing the Super Mario Bros intellectual property and it was apparently a real hefty fee) and etc.

What you see with Capcom and SEGA, you do see with Konami. Of course, this is just my observation, but it's pretty telling on the current situation and that Snake's fate doesn't lie in Sakurai's or Nintendo's hands.

It's all on Konami.

But things aren't really looking good for Snake unless Nintendo and Konami are negotiating something. You just need to look beyond Smash Bros.

I would like Snake back, but I'm doubting it.

Back in 2005, Konami and Nintendo had a fantastic relationship.

It is 2013 now. Things have change. A lot.

Well there are more positive things in bringing Snake again than pushing him over the cliff. For one both companies will benefit, Snake will get more representation and free RRPP (Public Relations) for Konami, for Nintendo it will bring more hype to the fans of Snake in Smash, to see the character back and the inclusion of a big series to that universe, not only that it brings a character that is already made and don´t need a lot of resources to be created (that brings too the music, stages, assist trophies, items and much more to the game).
Second, it would mark a healthy relation for both companies, lets think about like a country that has an embassy in another country, if suddenly that country decides to remove that embassy probably the other country will start thinking that something is wrong and the situation could turn to worse for that simple fact.
Third, Kojima and Sakurai are good friends and both are really high in the hierarchy of both companies they have a lot of power to move the deal (if you have follow this thread, there is conversation between Iwata and Sakurai and both discuss the inclusion of Snake and Sonic, it seems that Sakurai has the last words on what is happening with the project).
Four, if Sakurai wants to add again Snake he can ask as a favor to Kojima to lend him Snake again for Smash (Kojima will accept for the simple reason that he is in debt with Sakurai for including the first time Snake in to Smash). For now those are the arguments.

.n_n.

 

[Starcutter]

ALRIGHT YOU ALL OVERLOOKED IT. POSTING. AGAIN

pretty good, although I wonder about wonder red. :/

(hah, get it?)

 

[BKupa666]

This is pretty much why I'm already jumping on board on the notion that Toad is not playable.

Deny it all you want, but history loves to repeat itself all the time.

I base a lot of my speculation off of precedent. Sometimes, it backfires, like when I took the stance that Luigi wouldn't be shown before release despite it being the Year of Luigi. Other stuff, like predicting the game would have at least one shock character and one female character, came true, this time in one, Fit package.

 

[Zhadgon]

ALRIGHT YOU ALL OVERLOOKED IT. POSTING. AGAIN

Pretty good roster and I like the selection screen maybe instead of Link you can put Pac-Man :D
.n_n.

 

[BluePikmin11]

ALRIGHT YOU ALL OVERLOOKED IT. POSTING. AGAIN

The image could be widescreen. But it's a fine "no cuts" roster.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'll openly admit he's among, if not the most iconic Nintendo character not playable. And yet it doesn't translate to solid support amongst Smash fans. If it did, he'd be on the level of pre-Brawl Wario. But he's not. He's First Party Pacman.

Probably because Toad lacks a certain catch to him that would make him appealing. You know, the whole "makes you want to play as them" criteria, where it's not so much popularity or recognizably but rather what the character in question can bring to the table that would interest a potential player. Could be cosmetics, could be gameplay, could be both, but the point is that there needs to be a sense of interest. This is where I think Toad kind of falls flat in a sense, hence why he rarely gains a huge amount of support.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Probably because Toad lacks a certain catch to him that would make him appealing. You know, the whole "makes you want to play as them" criteria, where it's not so much popular or recognizable but rather what the character in question can bring to the table that would interest a potential player. Could be cosmetics, could be gameplay, could be both, but the point is that there needs to be a sense of interest. This is where I think Toad kind of falls flat in a sense, hence why he rarely gains a huge amount of support.

If Toad could have a superpower to make him unique, what would it be?

 

[Louie G.]

Hey everyone!
(Looks at thread, sees everyone is still talking about Toad).

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

If Toad could have a superpower to make him unique, what would it be?

Walking up walls like in Wario's Woods?

Holding up items over his head like Donkey Kong?

Doing the above, but being able to carry multiple items stacked on each other?

-----

 

[Zhadgon]

The problem with Toad is at first you can look to him and would simple pass Toad as a boring character that could not bring something new to Smash and I can see the why, because the character has not much going for him, the saving grace for Toad it would mean to have a really amazing moveset where you want to play him (the only time that I have main Toad in a game for preference it was in Mario Kart Double Dash, because of his unique power that was the golden mushroom, side note my other main character was Paratroopa ).
.n_n.

 

[FlareHabanero]

If Toad could have a superpower to make him unique, what would it be?

The most blunt one is super strength, like how he's depicted in some games. A mini grappler does sound appealing, admittedly.

 

[Louie G.]

If Toad could have a superpower to make him unique, what would it be?

He throws bombs like in Wario's Woods.
If the color of the bomb matches the color of the player, they take extra damage.

 

[Arcadenik]

Contrary to what skeptics and haters say, a lot of people want to play as Toad in Smash.

 

[FlareHabanero]

By the way, contrary to what I'm saying, I will freely admit that I would like the inclusion of Toad, but at the same time I'm not going to be in denial about it.

 

[BluePikmin11]

A mushroom guy carrying heavy stuff seems pretty unnatural and unfitting for Toad.

 

[Louie G.]

Although I don't see Toad happening, I would be pleasantly surprised if it did happen.
It's not impossible, in fact Toad is probably the most likely new Mario rep.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

By the way, contrary to what I'm saying, I will freely admit that I would like the inclusion of Toad, but at the same time I'm not going to be in denial about it.

It doesn't look good for Toad with the Peach update, but like I said before:

Toon Link and the train.

I'm not calling him out just yet until everything is revealed.

A mushroom guy carrying heavy stuff seems pretty unnatural and unfitting for Toad.

Well, yeah, Toad is tiny, but don't underestimate him. He has the strongest power (and speed) stat in SMB2 and he can carry carry and stack multiple things in Wario's Woods.

 

[Arcadenik]

A mushroom guy carrying heavy stuff seems pretty unnatural and unfitting for Toad.

But that's what Toad's trophies say... They said it is "rumored" that Toad has superhuman strength.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

If you followed Nintendo and their situation, you would know the answer.

But let me shed light:

Konami was disappointed with their software sales on Wii (honestly, they didn't make much on Wii so I don't know what the problem is) and don't want to bother investing in bringing the Fox Engine to Wii U for whatever reason. Most likely having to do with sales. I think they're skipping PES on Wii U also...

But if look at Capcom and SEGA, you'd see the complete opposite in how they're embracing Nintendo. Capcom bringing the Monster Hunter series to 3DS with MH4 performing extremely well, satisfied with how well RE Revelations performed on 3DS, a new Ace Attorney- just good support.

Nintendo vows to fund and publish Bayonetta 2 as well as co-publish Mario&Sonic At The Sochi Olympic games (before, SEGA had to take the burden of spending loads of money on licensing the Super Mario Bros intellectual property and it was apparently a real hefty fee) and etc.

What you see with Capcom and SEGA, you do see with Konami. Of course, this is just my observation, but it's pretty telling on the current situation and that Snake's fate doesn't lie in Sakurai's or Nintendo's hands.

It's all on Konami.

But things aren't really looking good for Snake unless Nintendo and Konami are negotiating something. You just need to look beyond Smash Bros.

I would like Snake back, but I'm doubting it.

Back in 2005, Konami and Nintendo had a fantastic relationship.

It is 2013 now. Things have change. A lot.

Many companies havent jumped on to nintendo's wiiu ship yet, almost all of them have been cautious in their approach, only the bigger ones have the capital to do so without worry that it might not mean big money, its not exclusive to konami. Capcom goes where the money is, and for monster hunter the 3DS is the best place and nintendo was willing to ensure that. Konami only really deals with 3 franchises at all anymore: Metal Gear, Castlevania, and their soccer games, (and silent hill to a small extent), which at the time were already in development for current gen. MGS5 could appear on wiiu, if it can get a 360 and ps3 version a wiiu one is not out of the realm of possibility. Konami has definitely gotten a bit out of touch with things (sometimes i question what they are doing while they sit on so many series), but either way none of what you speculated or surmised would really have an impact on his inclusion. Just because they have no current projects now doesnt mean that it locks any future ones out, konami supported the wii pretty throughly with all the VC, rebirth, and other series, but to make money as a third party they have to spread the love. A lack of activity doesnt equal bad blood or no business, we cant just throw out 30 years of third party support that konami has given just because of a few things right?

And even then sakurai would deal with kojima studios first and foremost, kojima and him would have enough pull from both of their companies to put snake in whatever they want.

 

[SuperBrawler]

You guys are still talking about Toad?

 

[Johnknight1]

Solid Snake had his time to shine in Brawl. Time to move on and let some other 3rd party guest take the spotlight.

Nintendo had its' time to shine on the Wii. Now it is time to move on and let Valve shine with the Valve Box.

At least the Valve box would have sequels to games that aren't hilarious worse than their prequels or that actually have replay value (Mario Galaxy, lol!).

Well, Wind Waker HD just bombed in Japan

As did every Wii U related apparently.

 

[kikaru]

Toad definitely has some moveset potential, here's just some ideas. Might make this into a full fledged moveset later.

Spoiler

B: Counter. Toad pulls out Peach to counter an attack.


B^: Rocket. Toad pulls out a rocket from the ground as seen in Super Mario Bros 2. Initially it will go straight up, the player will gain directional control after it passes a certain height. The Rocket will explode if Toad collides it into the ground or wall, or until its timer runs out.

Bv: Toad can pull out a Mushroom Block and launch it at the enemy. Mushroom Blocks remain on the field for a period of time and can be picked up/ used as platforms. This might make a really interesting and trolly edge guarding technique if you launch an opponent far enough to the point where they would've grabbed onto the ledge had it not been for a strategically placed Mushroom Block.

B>: Toad Kart/ Super Mushroom. Toad hops into a Kart and drives around dealing damage to enemies he collides into, by pressing B> again Toad consumes a Super Mushroom and gains a sudden burst of speed dealing increased damage to opponents.
While in his Kart Toad is only able to perform a single short hop and can cancel this move by shielding. If Toad is holding an item he can press Z while tilting the control stick to throw the item in a given direction.

 

[Johnknight1]

Cameos or not, you'd still have to pay the owners of the characters to use them.

How do you know it is not Konami paying for Snake in Smash=??? This talk is merely speculation.

What's the reasons for preferring Snake to be cut other than that he likely kicked your bum in Brawl?

Nintendo fanboyism robots who are so isolated they only like Nintendo things, or Nintendo "purists" who want nothing "impure" like Snake in Smash.

Back in 2005, Konami and Nintendo had a fantastic relationship.

It is 2013 now. Things have change. A lot.

I don't see how this is all that much different from before Brawl.

Nintendo has a console that could become a lame duck instead of one that is selling so much they can't keep up with the demand.

In other words, Nintendo should be clinching onto everything in sight for life, instead of scaring off 3rd parties (which produce more quality games than any of the Big Three with their 1st/2nd parties; it is just a fact).