Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[CalumG]

Chiming in on what I've seen over the last few pages: Pokemon seems long overdue for a fusion mechanic, as much as people may hate the idea. We could bring up the Metagross family, but then think back even further - Magneton was just three Magnemite's stuck together, was it not? Dugtrio was just three Digletts for that matter, and Slowbro was a Slowpoke with a (very unusual looking) Cloyster on it's tail, according to it's Dex entry at least. Weezing looked kind of like two Koffins fused together through some horrible accident, too. I don't care if they'd have to go back and alter certain Pokemon's evolution methods to introduce the new mechanics, but even as far back as the first gen I was looking at these kinds of Pokemon and thinking "Why isn't there some kind of fusion mechanic to make these Pokemon? Where do the other two Digletts come from?" and so on.

 

[3Bismyname]

Chiming in on what I've seen over the last few pages: Pokemon seems long overdue for a fusion mechanic, as much as people may hate the idea. We could bring up the Metagross family, but then think back even further - Magneton was just three Magnemite's stuck together, was it not? Dugtrio was just three Digletts for that matter, and Slowbro was a Slowpoke with a (very unusual looking) Cloyster on it's tail, according to it's Dex entry at least. Weezing looked kind of like two Koffins fused together through some horrible accident, too. I don't care if they'd have to go back and alter certain Pokemon's evolution methods to introduce the new mechanics, but even as far back as the first gen I was looking at these kinds of Pokemon and thinking "Why isn't there some kind of fusion mechanic to make these Pokemon? Where do the other two Digletts come from?" and so on.

well Digimon did it so i dont see why Pokemon couldnt.

 

[CalumG]

well Digimon did it so i dont see why Pokemon couldnt.

Mostly out of tradition, I feel. I'd be okay with it personally, but if Diglett, Koffing, Magnemite, Slowpoke, Mantyke and Beldum/Metang all had their evolution methods changed to match the new fusion mechanic, people would get their collective panties in a bunch over the fact they're going back and making changes to old Pokemon.

I think it needs to happen, personally. There are too many things that haven't happened yet because Game Freak want to keep tradition. However you look at it, some things should be changed - these Pokemon should clearly have a different evolution method, Nidoran should clearly only take up one spot on the Pokedex and Kangaskhan should really have a baby form because coming out of an egg with a baby in your pouch makes no sense. Similarly, Cubone's should only be able to be caught, not bred - why does it come out of an egg with it's mothers skull on it's head when I've got it's mother tucked away neatly in the PC?

But alas, again, the fanbase would lose its mind. I know Pokemon is not supposed to be realistic by any stretch, but even unrealistic things should still try their best not to break their own internal rules.

 

[mimgrim]

Chiming in on what I've seen over the last few pages: Pokemon seems long overdue for a fusion mechanic, as much as people may hate the idea. We could bring up the Metagross family, but then think back even further - Magneton was just three Magnemite's stuck together, was it not? Dugtrio was just three Digletts for that matter, and Slowbro was a Slowpoke with a (very unusual looking) Cloyster on it's tail, according to it's Dex entry at least. Weezing looked kind of like two Koffins fused together through some horrible accident, too. I don't care if they'd have to go back and alter certain Pokemon's evolution methods to introduce the new mechanics, but even as far back as the first gen I was looking at these kinds of Pokemon and thinking "Why isn't there some kind of fusion mechanic to make these Pokemon? Where do the other two Digletts come from?" and so on.

As long as the mechanic also includes diferent Pokemon being able to get fused together to evolve into a new Pokemon I wouldn't mind much. But It would be disspointing if it were only for the same species of Pokemon. Like fuse Arbok and Serviper to get Arbviper or something like that lol.

 

[3Bismyname]

it would make Regigigas make more sense to me

 

[TheBakonBitz]

"To bad the gameplay contradicts that because it's leveling and evolving systems don't work with Pokémon fusion evolution outcomes :L"

Would be something along those lines....

Someone has to learn not to expect somebody to re type their comment because you don't understand them.

Back on topic to Fire Emblem, Ephraim is a lance user and has green hair. Any red haired axe users? That would completely represent Fire Emblem. I know maybe a skin to change between Marth and Lucina.

 

[CalumG]

As long as the mechanic also includes diferent Pokemon being able to get fused together to evolve into a new Pokemon I wouldn't mind much. But It would be disspointing if it were only for the same species of Pokemon. Like fuse Arbok and Serviper to get Arbviper or something like that lol.

Well considering Mantine has a Remoraid attached to it and Slowbro is a Slowpoke-meets-Cloyster, I like to think there'd be a few different types of combinations. Obviously they wouldn't go overboard with them, it'd be a nice new feature like MegaEvolutions or formes or new stones but it wouldn't be completely overbearing. A man can dream. ):

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Mostly out of tradition, I feel. I'd be okay with it personally, but if Diglett, Koffing, Magnemite, Slowpoke, Mantyke and Beldum/Metang all had their evolution methods changed to match the new fusion mechanic, people would get their collective panties in a bunch over the fact they're going back and making changes to old Pokemon.

Similarly, Cubone's should only be able to be caught, not bred - why does it come out of an egg with it's mothers skull on it's head when I've got it's mother tucked away neatly in the PC?

But alas, again, the fanbase would lose its mind. I know Pokemon is not supposed to be realistic by any stretch, but even unrealistic things should still try their best not to break their own internal rules.

That's why.

And I don't know why people get so upset over retcons to Pokemon. It's not like any of these changes affect the older generations. If a change is made for the better, there's no reason not to have it. Alakazam used to have extremely powerful Ice Punches and Fire Punches, but they suddenly have one of the weakest Elemental Punches in the game in Generation IV. I don't know if fusion itself should apply to Pokemon in general, but things like Diglett and Beldum should definitely have a fusion evolution, even if it goes Generation III.

If you don't like the changes, don't play the games. Your older games don't disappear into thin air. Play those instead if you like their mechanics more. Simple as that.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

And I don't know why people get so upset over retcons to Pokemon. It's not like any of these changes affect the older generations. If a change is made for the better, there's no reason not to have it. Alakazam used to have extremely powerful Ice Punches and Fire Punches, but they suddenly have one of the weakest Elemental Punches in the game in Generation IV. I don't know if fusion itself should apply to Pokemon in general, but things like Diglett and Beldum should definitely have a fusion evolution, even if it goes Generation III.

If you don't like the changes, don't play the games. Your older games don't disappear into thin air. Play those instead if you like their mechanics more. Simple as that.

It's probably because so many people are looking forward to the same thing or better things being added to the Pokemon, and they get disappointed when such things aren't implimented, if they're nerfed, or for some reason they don't like the change, which is understandable, but people don't need to go around and complain and whine about it, they can discuss why they were disappointed by some things, but if they just hate the game in general, and complain about it, then I'll stop listening to them quickly.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Seriously wish I had the money to get FEA...................and Dream Team. Oh, how I want them so...

This should seriously be reported as spam... it has NOTHING to do with anything about the topic subject. If you want to talk about something on this forum, talk about what the actual topic is - ROSTER PREDICTIONS...

 

[N3ON]

This should seriously be reported as spam... it has NOTHING to do with anything about the topic subject. If you want to talk about something on this forum, talk about what the actual topic is - ROSTER PREDICTIONS...

If you feel you have something to report then report it instead of complaining about it without adding anything to the actual topic.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

If you feel you have something to report then report it instead of complaining about it without adding anything to the actual topic.

I feel it's better for Noah to actually realize he is spamming, rather than not knowing. By taking my advice, he'd know to stay on topic. I'm only trying to help him out, honestly. And I'm sorry if I should have done this another way instead. From now on, I'll just report it and keep quiet.

Anyways, I have a topic to propose about Pokemon evolutions - if Lucario does return to the Smash, does that mean he'll have his new transformation with him, or will he just use his megaform, or will he just use his pre-rendered form from the previous game?

 

[Hotfeet444]

Well this topic's come to a grinding halt...so I found something funny...

I think it would be absolutely hilarious if Sakurai took all those Goku requests and trolled them by adding in this character by the same name.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Well this topic's come to a grinding halt...so I found something funny...

...............................................................................................

I think it would be absolutely hilarious if Sakurai took all those Goku requests and trolled them by adding in this character by the same name.

Wouldn't Sakurai be sued by the creator of Dragon Ball Z for damages to character reputation? Besides, Sakurai is more respectful than that, and he doesn't go out of his way to troll. If anything, when he adds characters, he adds them because they have value and worth, like Wii Fit Trainer and Game and Watch.

 

[N3ON]

I feel it's better for Noah to actually realize he is spamming, rather than not knowing. By taking my advice, he'd know to stay on topic. I'm only trying to help him out, honestly. And I'm sorry if I should have done this another way instead. From now on, I'll just report it and keep quiet.

Noah has been warned previously for rules he might've broken, but this time all he was doing was replying to someone else. Off-topic? Maybe, but not spam and not report-worthy. I appreciate you being concerned with keeping things on-topic, but reporting things to the mods and having them deal with infractions is more constructive than just complaining, as it's really no better than what you're complaining about anyway. Now hopefully we can get back on topic.

Anyways, I have a topic to propose about Pokemon evolutions - if Lucario does return to the Smash, does that mean he'll have his new transformation with him, or will he just use his megaform, or will he just use his pre-rendered form from the previous game?

Chances are he will function similar to how he did in Brawl for the most part, but my guess is Sakurai will implement MegaLucario in some way within the moveset. Mewtwo is likely in a similar situation.

 

[Opossum]

Wouldn't Sakurai be sued by the creator of Dragon Ball Z for damages to character reputation? Besides, Sakurai is more respectful than that, and he doesn't go out of his way to troll. If anything, when he adds characters, he adds them because they have value and worth, like Wii Fit Trainer and Game and Watch.

No, he wouldn't. Nintendo owns this Goku, so they'd be perfectly allowed to put this Goku in the game.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

This should seriously be reported as spam... it has NOTHING to do with anything about the topic subject. If you want to talk about something on this forum, talk about what the actual topic is - ROSTER PREDICTIONS...

Making a simple comment among the main discussion isn't really spam.

And you are really overexaggerating the importance of this post. And you're sort of freaking out about it.
And-

This should seriously be reported as spam...

Then why aren't you reporting it yourself?

 

[Hotfeet444]

Wouldn't Sakurai be sued by the creator of Dragon Ball Z for damages to character reputation? Besides, Sakurai is more respectful than that, and he doesn't go out of his way to troll. If anything, when he adds characters, he adds them because they have value and worth, like Wii Fit Trainer and Game and Watch.

Gee, I dunno, was the creator of Dragon Ball Z sued by the author of "Journey to the West"? The same for Capcom with the character SonSon in Marvel vs. Capcom 2? The answer is no.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

No, he wouldn't. Nintendo owns this Goku, so they'd be perfectly allowed to put this Goku in the game.

What I meant was... when I was replying to the person who suggested Sakurai 'troll' the audience into believing Goku being revealed for the game is the DBZ one and not the Nintendo one, I replied that the party who owns the property of the DBZ Goku may get seriously offended that their property was used as a means of trolling the audience... I hope I'm not confusing with these statements. And IF Goku the monkey was announced as a character, however extremely unlikely, then of course people would notice the similarities, whether or not its warranted. I'm just saying Nintendo would have to be very careful, which is why they might not even incorporate Goku the monkey into any Smash game, considering the far more legendary one.

Gee, I dunno, was the creator of Dragon Ball Z sued by the author of "Journey to the West"? The same for Capcom with the character SonSon in Marvel vs. Capcom 2? The answer is no.

The difference is "Journey to the West" was made centuries ago, while Dragon Ball Z is recent past... in this century, lawsuits and court hearing and trials are extremely common now then it was back then, what with IPs and what not. People can be sued for anything, which is why Sakurai would want to avoid it all with the Goku monkey character.

 

[CalumG]

As someone who loves both the old story of Journey to the West and the original series of Dragon Ball (not so much Dragon Ball Z, which pretty much went full Fonzie and jumped the shark), I'd actually really love to see the Goku from YuYuKi implemented into Smash - anything that would let me fight with a Power Pole and Nimbus cloud without pissing off the anti-DBZ folks.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

This should seriously be reported as spam... it has NOTHING to do with anything about the topic subject. If you want to talk about something on this forum, talk about what the actual topic is - ROSTER PREDICTIONS...

Now what are we talking about Goku? I agree with Hotfeet, Sakurai should totally troll thos fans by announcing Goku will be in the game, and it turns out to be this monkey assist trophy :D

 

[Hotfeet444]

The difference is "Journey to the West" was made centuries ago, while Dragon Ball Z is recent past... in this century, lawsuits and court hearing and trials are extremely common now then it was back then, what with IPs and what not. People can be sued for anything, which is why Sakurai would want to avoid it all with the Goku monkey character.

Regardless, the creators of Dragonball Z own no rights to Son Goku or any of the official Journey to the West characters, only characters within in the actual Dragonball franchise. And so what if Shonen Jump gets offended, what're they going to do, cut off use of the characters that Sakurai will never use? Do your research next time.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

As someone who loves both the old story of Journey to the West and the original series of Dragon Ball (not so much Dragon Ball Z, which pretty much went full Fonzie and jumped the shark), I'd actually really love to see the Goku from YuYuKi implemented into Smash - anything that would let me fight with a Power Pole and Nimbus cloud without pissing off the anti-DBZ folks.

The problem is anytime you're going add a character named 'Goku' into the Smashverse... parallels are always going to be drawn to the DBZ Goku, no matter what. Even if the legend predates back centuries, the lawsuits may still be there. Think about this, and this is actually relevant to the discussion... Lindsay Lohan actually successfully sued some company over using the name 'Lindsay' because she thought they were taking advantage of her name. Likewise, the creators of DBZ can also sue Nintendo and Sakurai because they can cite the previous precedent that they too are taking advantage of their IP, their fame and fortune. I'm just saying Sakurai should absolutely AVOID any "Journey to the West" characters if he wants to no court hearings over the controversy.

 

[kingmario92]

Well this topic's come to a grinding halt...so I found something funny...

I think it would be absolutely hilarious if Sakurai took all those Goku requests and trolled them by adding in this character by the same name.

This is GREAT. 5/5, Glad I'm not the only one who's heard of him.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What I meant was... when I was replying to the person who suggested Sakurai 'troll' the audience into believing Goku being revealed for the game is the DBZ one and not the Nintendo one, I replied that the party who owns the property of the DBZ Goku may get seriously offended that their property was used as a means of trolling the audience... I hope I'm not confusing with these statements. And IF Goku the monkey was announced as a character, however extremely unlikely, then of course people would notice the similarities, whether or not its warranted. I'm just saying Nintendo would have to be very careful, which is why they might not even incorporate Goku the monkey into any Smash game, considering the far more legendary one.

That's not how life works. And why would they seriously be offended.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to sue Stephen King for trying to kill of Danny in The Shining. MY BROTHER'S NAME IS DANNY!!!!!!

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Now what are we talking about Goku? I agree with Hotfeet, Sakurai should totally troll thos fans by announcing Goku will be in the game, and it turns out to be this monkey assist trophy :D

Seriously, have you even READ the discussion, Noah... once again, do your research before making logically flawed arguments. Read what I said about the Goku controversy before commenting. It would save us plenty of time.

 

[Opossum]

What I meant was... when I was replying to the person who suggested Sakurai 'troll' the audience into believing Goku being revealed for the game is the DBZ one and not the Nintendo one, I replied that the party who owns the property of the DBZ Goku may get seriously offended that their property was used as a means of trolling the audience... I hope I'm not confusing with these statements. And IF Goku the monkey was announced as a character, however extremely unlikely, then of course people would notice the similarities, whether or not its warranted. I'm just saying Nintendo would have to be very careful, which is why they might not even incorporate Goku the monkey into any Smash game, considering the far more legendary one.

Think of it like this. If Hades from Kid Icarus were hypothetically added, I bet there would be some people who would incorrectly assume it was the Disney version from Hercules. However, Disney couldn't sue for this because both Nintendo's and Disney's version are loosely based on the Hades of Greek Mythology.

Essentially, it'd be the same scenario here. The creator of DragonBall's Goku couldn't sue, as the character that would hypothetically be in Smash Bros is just a different version of the character that both of them were based on in Chinese mythology.

I hope that made sense, since I'm not sure I described that well.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'm not that into Dragon Ball, and I personally don't like the idea of Goku being in Smash.

Yet, I don't mind him in SSF2, wonder why that is...

 

[N3ON]

The name "Goku" isn't copyrighted, the DBZ character is. So is the Nintendo character for that matter. Look at all the video game characters named Ryu, multiple character names can exist. No case against Nintendo for simply using the name Goku would hold water.

 

[YoshiandToad]

The difference is "Journey to the West" was made centuries ago, while Dragon Ball Z is recent past... in this century, lawsuits and court hearing and trials are extremely common now then it was back then, what with IPs and what not. People can be sued for anything, which is why Sakurai would want to avoid it all with the Goku monkey character.

But this Goku is based off the Journey to the West one clearly. Many things have their own version of that particular character; Infernape is based off of him, and Digimon has Gokwumon.

I think because it's based off that book, just like the Wizard of Oz book it's fair game for anyone who wants to make their own adaption of it. I could be wrong, but I think the copyright laws are different for centuries old books.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Seriously, have you even READ the discussion, Noah... once again, do your research before making logically flawed arguments. Read what I said about the Goku controversy before commenting. It would save us plenty of time.

What argument am I making? Would you mind making sense when you post, your spamming the thread. Seriously, WHAT argument? What flawed logic. Is there something about agreeing Sakurai should troll people some sort of logically flawed argument I need to research? What are you talking about???????

 

[kingmario92]

What I meant was... when I was replying to the person who suggested Sakurai 'troll' the audience into believing Goku being revealed for the game is the DBZ one and not the Nintendo one, I replied that the party who owns the property of the DBZ Goku may get seriously offended that their property was used as a means of trolling the audience... I hope I'm not confusing with these statements. And IF Goku the monkey was announced as a character, however extremely unlikely, then of course people would notice the similarities, whether or not its warranted. I'm just saying Nintendo would have to be very careful, which is why they might not even incorporate Goku the monkey into any Smash game, considering the far more legendary one.

So basically your saying Hades from Kid Icarus can't be in Smash because Disney or whoever made God of War will sue them? What a stupid analogy.

 

[Hotfeet444]

The problem is anytime you're going add a character named 'Goku' into the Smashverse... parallels are always going to be drawn to the DBZ Goku, no matter what. Even if the legend predates back centuries, the lawsuits may still be there. Think about this, and this is actually relevant to the discussion... Lindsay Lohan actually successfully sued some company over using the name 'Lindsay' because she thought they were taking advantage of her name. Likewise, the creators of DBZ can also sue Nintendo and Sakurai because they can cite the previous precedent that they too are taking advantage of their IP, their fame and fortune. I'm just saying Sakurai should absolutely AVOID any "Journey to the West" characters if he wants to no court hearings over the controversy.

Did you not listen to a word I said? Son Goku is NOT owned by Shonen Jump, the Son Goku of Journey to the West is not owned by anyone. And also, did you just really use something involving that dumbass Lindsey Lohan as proof?

See this character? The fact this character exists and was used makes your statements bull****.

So basically your saying Hades from Kid Icarus can't be in Smash because Disney or whoever made God of War will sue them? What a stupid analogy.

What's funny is that Sakuai's rendition of said character is probably the best one ever made.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Think of it like this. If Hades from Kid Icarus were hypothetically added, I bet there would be some people who would incorrectly assume it was the Disney version from Hercules. However, Disney couldn't sue for this because both Nintendo's and Disney's version are loosely based on the Hades of Greek Mythology. Disney actually CAN still sue Nintendo, because precedence for this was already set beforehand (Lindsay Lohan). Basically, if they feel Nintendo is infringing on their property, source material or not, they can sue because on the basis of another company taking advantage of the popularity of other IP. That's how legal issues work.

Essentially, it'd be the same scenario here. The creator of DragonBall's Goku couldn't sue, as the character that would hypothetically be in Smash Bros is just a different version of the character that both of them were based on in Chinese mythology. No, what I said was this - if Nintendo went out of their way to MOCK the DBZ product by trolling the audience into thinking they were going to be characters instead of another Goku... they can sue for character damage and false advertisement. CHARACTER DAMAGE especially.

I hope that made sense, since I'm not sure I described that well.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think people are getting what I'M saying...

What argument am I making? Would you mind making sense when you post, your spamming the thread.

This actually has relevance to the topic, hence whether or not Goku the Monkey can actually be in the roster due to legal concerns that may be issued by another company.

So basically your saying Hades from Kid Icarus can't be in Smash because Disney or whoever made God of War will sue them? What a stupid analogy.

The beauty of watching others fail in their logic to explain why mine doesn't ..... Just because they can still sue, it doesn't mean they will necessarily win. But still, Sakurai and Nintendo would not want to be involved in such a mess, hence why Goku the Monkey shouldn't even be CONSIDERED as a roster prediction.

 

[SuperBrawler]

I'm not that into Dragon Ball, and I personally don't like the idea of Goku being in Smash.

Yet, I don't mind him in SSF2, wonder why that is...

Didn't mind in Crusade either.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Did you not listen to a word I said? Son Goku is NOT owned by Shonen Jump, the Son Goku of Journey to the West is not owned by anyone. And also, did you just really use something involving that ******* Lindsey Lohan as proof? Precedence of a COURT CASE... and I said DBZ and Shonen can sue for character damages IF Nintendo announces a Goku for Smash... only to troll everybody and reveal it's the Nintendo character.

See this character? The fact this character exists and was used makes your statements bull****. I don't get it.



What's funny is that Sakuai's rendition of said character is probably the best one ever made.

 

[ThatPersonGuy]

I get what you're saying, but I don't think people are getting what I'M saying...

They could just troll more subtly. There's not much of a case if it's just on what they think. There could be nothing special about the introduction or anything, and people would STILL get trolled.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

This actually has relevance to the topic, hence whether or not Goku the Monkey can actually be in the roster due to legal concerns that may be issued by another company.

Dude, you can reply to people's statements without it involving real roster predictions. Go wine about it to the moderators and stop complaining here.

BZ and Shonen can sue for character damages IF Nintendo announces a Goku for Smash... only to troll everybody and reveal it's the Nintendo character.

No they actually can't, that is not how it works, Deity. (you need to learn about the legal system.)

 

[Opossum]

Disney actually CAN still sue Nintendo, because precedence for this was already set beforehand (Lindsay Lohan). Basically, if they feel Nintendo is infringing on their property, source material or not, they can sue because on the basis of another company taking advantage of the popularity of other IP. That's how legal issues work.

Yes, they can sue, but the case would go nowhere, though, as Disney does not own Hades as a whole, only their version of him.

No, what I said was this - if Nintendo went out of their way to MOCK the DBZ product by trolling the audience into thinking they were going to be characters instead of another Goku... they can sue for character damage and false advertisement. CHARACTER DAMAGE especially.

Well, to be fair, Sakurai would probably be smart enough to not get fans excited/mad about something just to switch it around. He's smarter than to start legal issues. Not sure if it would fall under the Parody and Fair Use laws, though.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think people are getting what I'M saying...

I think I get it now, but I disagree.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Bottom line is this... the truth of the matter is that Goku the Monkey should not even be considered a roster prediction, because of all the legal trouble and media hysteria that Sakurai and Nintendo would want to avoid. Again though, its all theoretical. As I've said, there are better roster predictions, anyways. I don't see what Goku the Monkey brings to the table other than being a potential semi-clone of Diddy Kong.

Dude, you can reply to people's statements without it involving real roster predictions. Go wine about it to the moderators and stop complaining here.

You brought it up... not me.