Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[DarrylTrainer]

In the end, Mario characters are more iconic than a lot of others at Nintendo's disposal, though. It honestly makes sense for so much of Smash to be representing Mario because so much of Nintendo IS Mario.

Also, why do we really think in terms of 'slots'? It's not like Sakurai is going to say "Well, Toad's in over Ridley." because of a limited amount of slots.Not only that, but seven character slots for Nintendo's biggest franchise and six for their second (Pokemon has Pokemon Trainer as a condensed form of three characters, but it just LOOKS like four) isn't all that illogical. From a sales standpoint, Mario (including all spin-offs) has 446.53 million units sold in comparison to Pokemon (the second most successful series) only having 219.28 million. If you're looking at Mario without spin-offs, then they still have sold 275.73 million units, which is 36.45 million more units sold than Pokemon. That's more than enough to justify having seven representatives, since 36.45 million units is still more than the entirety of Kirby game sales at only 33 million and is a little less than three times the sales of all Metroid titles and more than three times the sales of the Starfox series.

I get what you're saying then. Although, I feel obligated to point out I never said that Mario IS Nintendo, only that mario is a very, very significant part of it. I get the point of view much more now because of the highlighted section.

(For the record, I really was more confused at why it was considered so important more than anything else, and I apologize if I came across as argumentative, since you responded fairly defensively.)

ACTUALLY, you did...

 

[zauberdragon]

The number of reps a franchise will receive is still very dependent on the overall roster size. As people have pointed out, it's all pointing towards a roster of a similar or only slightly larger size than brawl.

Taking the franchises as a percentage of overall roster size, Mario accounted for just over 10% of the Brawl roster. I'd argue the ideal size of Mario characters, with Brawl as the only real precedent is around 10% with a few points either size.

My gut says the minimum roster size for 5 Marios is about 45, and definitely within a 50 (though 50 is unrealistic).

 

[mimgrim]

Personally I want King Boo or Waluigi, but Bowser JR. seems more likely. :L Although the other 2 have better chances then people give them credit for imo, Waluigi is pretty freaking popular despite only appearing in spin-offs and he completes the doppleganger square, and King Boo has som popularity on him and it is they year of Luigi.

But eh I agree Super Mario getting more then one new rep seems rather unlikely.

 

[shinhed-echi]

To be honest, I'm not really looking forward to any Mario reveal.

For starters, last year's E3 was a big downer for me. Mario, Mario, Mario, everywhere.
(This year was morel like Mario, Luigi, Luigi, SSB4, and some 3rd parties)

And Miyamoto now saying that, basically, any new gameplay idea he gets, he'll give it to Mario. (So you can expect no new IPs from him).

Now onto SSB.

I think there's already enough Mario representation. As far as character goes, we already have 4. And let's not kid ourselves, Yoshi and Wario are Mario characters who branched off... But they still appear in Mario games. (Maybe Wario a bit less so). At least Donkey Kong has his own respectable legacy.


I wouldn't HATE to see a Mario newcomer, but there are far more deserving characters and IPs yet to be represented once the basic Mario characters are covered... that it would really burn me to see them not get in because of a B-rated Mario character


Now, I do think Toad is iconic enough. Him being playable so much lately has to count for something (not mentioning appearing in every single Mario game since SMB). But... if I could choose, I'd go to another franchise, as he's already "inside" Peach.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Don't know why people would want more Mario characters, especially considering the series is just one big sellout these days. Demographics get wrecked, Mario characters are probably the dullest additions you can make to these games. Yes they are well known, but they're not exciting either.

 

[MagnesD3]

As for Mario games I'm just waiting for their next galaxy, galaxy 2 was perfection.

 

[Jak_spoon]

Eh I'm waiting for them to go back to the 64/sunshine model ( though that may never happen)

Would paper mario (who is not very likely) be considered a 5th slot or like yoshi and wario does he rep his own thing?

 

[The Black mage]

Paper Mario? Not very likely, I might add...
But then again...

 

[Jak_spoon]

It's been added

 

[Starbound]

Paper Mario is a second party spin-off so I think he'd be seperate from the Mario characters.

Though his trophy in Brawl is grouped with the Super Mario Bros. series, so it could probably fit in there.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Paper Mario is a second party spin-off so I think he'd be seperate from the Mario characters.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[CalumG]

What the hell are you talking about?

Some people are under the impression that because Paper Mario is an Intelligent Systems creation rather than being something from Nintendo EAD, that it should be counted as a separate series in Smash with a separate icon.

They'd be wrong of course, but that's where that train of thought comes from.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Coming from the person who wants Baby Yoshi...
While Duck Hunt Dog and Gooey make sense.
I don't know if he even HAS one, I mean what made you think that in the first place?

Difference is Baby Yoshi isn't a prediction, who would predict Baby Yoshi? I mean I thought it was pretty obvious that was just something that I think is cool. He thought Duck Hunt Dog, Gooey, and Prof. Layton WERE predictions. And no they don't work.

 

[Jak_spoon]

So what qualities make yoshis island a spinoff

 

[TheLastJinjo]

...That would be so stupid.
Then again, Young Link had his moveset carried over to Toon Link.

If Impa gets in, she should be a standalone character with a different moveset from Shiek.

----

It'd be pointless to do because it's not going to be that different. Sakurai would either make her a clone or just not have her at all. If Ganondorf, Lucas, and Roy became clones then you can expect the same from Impa. The point is Sheik is fine, it'd just be a waste of time to add Impa and we don't need any new Zelda reps. Impa is not as important as the other Zelda characters. She doesn't really have much going for her other than that some people request her.

Also I don't know why people think Toon Link on the train means Toon Link will be cut because Sakurai stated how much he hates cutting characters so I doubt he would cut a character before he even knew if there was room or not.

So what qualities make yoshis island a spinoff

It has it's own style where as Paper Mario is heavily based around the style of Mario, making him a Mario rep. Not to mention why would he not be a Mario rep if he IS Mario? Paper Mario actually seems to be the most likely and logical Mario rep to add.

It still wouldnt surprise me, It would be the easiest new zelda rep to include.

Shouldn't add a character because it'd be easy. That's "Melee" talk. Zelda doesn't need ANY new reps. Even if it did I see Tingle at the top because of his Spin-off titles.

 

[Jak_spoon]

Paper mario is an rpg while yoshis is a side scroller like the traditional marios

 

[TumblrFamous]

Wow. Reading through these past pages was torture. Anyway, I'd first like to accept the half-assed apology from DivineDeity. He was smart for stopping for a while. If you read this, I don't hate you, but I've warned you time and time again to respect people on here and not to blow a fuse. Clearly, you didn't listen.

Second, PerfectDarkMarc, was it? Welcome to the forums! But may I just ask if you could directly reply to other people? It'd be a lot easier.

Update on me, I'm having a great time in the Smokies! Its really clearing my head from all the negativity going on around here, since I'm simply too busy to care about any of you. But I mean that in a loving way.

So, what's on the agenda?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So I was thinking the other day I should replace JigglyPuff with Eevee. But it turned out the whole Eevee evolution doesn't work in Super Smash Brothers.

So would it be any different if I represented her as Sylveon??? What do you think, I mean it's still Eevee.

Also (IGNORING JIGGLYPUFF BEING A CLASSIC SMASH REP)

Who is better choice? JigglyPuff or Sylveon?

 

[MagnesD3]

Regardless if the Zelda series needs one or not they will probably get one especially if they lose tink. Also whoever said go back to the open world 3d Mario's I want that as well.

So I was thinking the other day I should replace JigglyPuff with Eevee. But it turned out the whole Eevee evolution doesn't work in Super Smash Brothers.

So would it be any different if I represented her as Sylveon??? What do you think, I mean it's still Eevee.

Also (IGNORING JIGGLYPUFF BEING A CLASSIC SMASH REP)

Who is better choice? JigglyPuff or Sylveon?

I love my jiggily so she must stay. As for evee she is iconic as well but I'd rather have her as a poke ball, and when you throw her out she evolves on the spot randomly and does an attack afterword depending on each form.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Paper mario is an rpg while yoshis is a side scroller like the traditional marios

He doesn't base it off gameplay, he bases it off of characters and setting. Donkey Kong had it's own characters and places, just like Wario. And Yoshi had some of it's own too in games like Yoshi's Story & Yoshi's Island. Regardless the main character is Yoshi and the title of the series is Yoshi. In Paper Mario the main character is Mario, the title has Mario in it, and the setting is Mario with the majority of the game being Mario characters unlike Yoshi.

Regardless if the Zelda series needs one or not they will probably get one especially if they lose tink. Also whoever said go back to the open world 3d Mario's I want that as well.

If you ask me the addition of any Zelda reps is unlikely as well as the removal of Toon Link, somebody who is important to representation unlike Impa.

I love my jiggily so she must stay. As for evee she is iconic as well but I'd rather have her as a poke ball, and when you throw her out she evolves on the spot randomly and does an attack afterword depending on each form.

I'm not basing it off preference though. Eevee has proven herself more relevant, popular, and deserving. I'm wondering if it counts as representing Eevee if I have Sylveon.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Wow. Reading through these past pages was torture. Anyway, I'd first like to accept the half-***** apology from DivineDeity. He was smart for stopping for a while. If you read this, I don't hate you, but I've warned you time and time again to respect people on here and not to blow a fuse. Clearly, you didn't listen.

I guess he acted pretty gay last night with the yelling, but I'm not bothered by him. I still laugh at how he cut the entire Mother series from his roster, though.
He's sorta like the "Anti-Noah" or "Dark Noah". I don't hate him either.

It's funny because I even told him not to "become a Noah" when I welcomed him to the forums last week after he made his roster list.

Update on me, I'm having a great time in the Smokies! Its really clearing my head from all the negativity going on around here, since I'm simply too busy to care about any of you. But I mean that in a loving way.

For some odd reason, when you told us you were leaving, I thought that you wouldn't be using the internet. I guess I forgot that you would probably still have internet while on your trip.

So I was thinking the other day I should replace JigglyPuff with Eevee. But it turned out the whole Eevee evolution doesn't work in Super Smash Brothers.

So would it be any different if I represented her as Sylveon??? What do you think, I mean it's still Eevee.

Also (IGNORING JIGGLYPUFF BEING A CLASSIC SMASH REP)

Who is better choice? JigglyPuff or Sylveon?

Sylveon and/or Eevee would be interesting actually, but I don't want Jiggs cut.
Not sure who's the better choice.

----

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sylveon and/or Eevee would be interesting actually, but I don't want Jiggs cut.
Not sure who's the better choice.

----

Again, I'm asking based off likeliness and not preference. But, if the majority prefers JigglyPuff...........

And yeah, I love how that guy cut the entire Mother series for not being recent, and then rants on anybody with a good roster. This guy is just all about recency and it's one of the dumbest things you can do when making a roster. He's just like F*** Ike he's not recent, nobody EVER cared about him or EarthBound. Somebody with Geno on their roster has no right to deem a roster as a failure.

Some people just act like anything that didn't come out after 2009 NEVER existed.

 

[mimgrim]

Eevee is the better choice over an evolution of Eevee, even if a evolution gimmick isn't put in for Eevee, though if handled properly I think it could be done without making it to complicated, as Eevee can work by itself. But eh I just can't see Jiggs going anywhere despite it's waning popularity, despite it being low priority. If Eevee were to get in I believe it would be as a new 5th character after Mewtwo taking Lucario's spot.

 

[MagnesD3]

He doesn't base it off gameplay, he bases it off of characters and setting. Donkey Kong had it's own characters and places, just like Wario. And Yoshi had some of it's own too in games like Yoshi's Story & Yoshi's Island. Regardless the main character is Yoshi and the title of the series is Yoshi. In Paper Mario the main character is Mario, the title has Mario in it, and the setting is Mario with the majority of the game being Mario characters unlike Yoshi.


If you ask me the addition of any Zelda reps is unlikely as well as the removal of Toon Link, somebody who is important to representation unlike Impa.



I'm not basing it off preference though. Eevee has proven herself more relevant, popular, and deserving. I'm wondering if it counts as representing Eevee if I have Sylveon.

The only really important Zelda character not in is demise but he has no popularity, alas I am one of the few supporters.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I guess he acted pretty gay last night with the yelling, but I'm not bothered by him. I still laugh at how he cut the entire Mother series from his roster, though.
He's sorta like the "Anti-Noah" or "Dark Noah". I don't hate him either.

It's funny because I even told him not to "become a Noah" when I welcomed him to the forums last week after he made his roster list.

So if Noah is Light Noah, and Divine is Dark Noah... Who is Neutral Noah? More so, is any Noah alignment at all just another way to say Lawful Stupid and Chaotic Stupid?

The only really important Zelda character not in is demise but he has no popularity, alas I am one of the few supporters.

I think he has some popularity, it's just more so that nobody really wants him when we already have Ganondorf. You know, for being the Demon King, same guy and whatnot.

Wow. Reading through these past pages was torture. Anyway, I'd first like to accept the half-***** apology from DivineDeity. He was smart for stopping for a while. If you read this, I don't hate you, but I've warned you time and time again to respect people on here and not to blow a fuse. Clearly, you didn't listen.

To be fair, accepting an apology with "It was half-assed and you clearly didn't listen" is a good way to re-open fresh wounds. We all know what he did, let's not rub it in his face.

 

[Autumn ♫]

If you ask me the addition of any Zelda reps is unlikely as well as the removal of Toon Link, somebody who is important to representation unlike Impa.

Impa is one of the most important Zelda characters along with Vaati and Tingle. Their behind Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf of course. Toon Link being removed is fairly likely, although if we had to have 2 Link's again, I would hope Toon Link would stay.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The only really important Zelda character not in is demise but he has no popularity, alas I am one of the few supporters.

Being important to the effects of the timeline doesn't make you important overall. Why don't we just make Nayru & Din a duo because they created everything?

Having Zelda characters because they are important to the outcome of the timeline has never been an influence. We've only had Main Characters of the series.

Eevee is the better choice over an evolution of Eevee, even if a evolution gimmick isn't put in for Eevee, though if handled properly I think it could be done without making it to complicated, as Eevee can work by itself. But eh I just can't see Jiggs going anywhere despite it's waning popularity, despite it being low priority. If Eevee were to get in I believe it would be as a new 5th character after Mewtwo taking Lucario's spot.

But, people would rather have an evolved Eevee with powers besides just being normal. and Sylveon is distinctive because she is gen 6, Fairy, had her own episode special, and she's the first evolution to appear by herself instead of being alongside another. She'd still be Eevee.

 

[mimgrim]

So if Noah is Light Noah, and Divine is Dark Noah... Who is Neutral Noah? More so, is any Noah alignment at all just another way to say Lawful Stupid and Chaotic Stupid?

This made me laugh harder then it should have. xD

No offense Noah.

 

[CalumG]

Just call Ganondorf the Demon King, give him some flame-y looking hair and a trident, and call it a day. Demise himself does not need to be represented.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Just call Ganondorf the Demon King, give him some flame-y looking hair and a trident, and call it a day. Demise himself does not need to be represented.

Probably for the best that he isn't anyway. He's definitely the most spoiler-heavy character of the entire series so far.

 

[CalumG]

Probably for the best that he isn't anyway. He's definitely the most spoiler-heavy character of the entire series so far.

True... though that didn't stop them from including Sheik, nor spoiling the fact that Porky was a main plot point in Mother 3.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Impa is one of the most important Zelda characters along with Vaati and Tingle. Their behind Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf of course. Toon Link being removed is fairly likely, although if we had to have 2 Link's again, I would hope Toon Link would stay.

What makes you think Toon Link's removal is likely. And just because Impa is popular doesn't make her important like the 3 main characters. If anything she's ranked as an Assist Trophy.

There's nothing to back up Toon Link's removal like there is his return. Sakurai hates cutting characters so why would he remove someone from the beginning before knowing if there's room or not? He wouldn't do that and Toon Link is more important than Impa, Vaati, or Tingle.

This made me laugh harder then it should have. xD

No offense Noah.

It's true, so what's so funny other than the fact that you don't understand something so obvious?

 

[MagnesD3]

You see Demise and Ganondorf arent the same, Ganondorf obtained Demises power, when demise died he promised his hatred, evil and power would live on forever haunting them. Ganodorf is different its just their power derives from the same source, I can easily see demise being reborn by ghirahim once again in a later game and ganondorf being there as well. Demise is the reason that the LoZ games exist and is super cool and his moveset is easy to do, idk he is my most wanted Loz character for sure, and yeah they could make him a costume but I dont think it does him justice. Id like Demise to be a pretty fast but ganon sized swordsman that uses his dark lighting and have them revamp ganon to be a heavy slow dark magic user, Idk it just seems perfect in my eyes but I doubt it will ever come to fruition.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You see Demise and Ganondorf arent the same, Ganondorf obtained Demises power, when demise died he promised hist hatred, evil and power would leave on forever haunting them. Ganodorf is different its just their power derives from the same source, I can easily see demise being reborn by ghirahim once again in a later game and ganondorf being there as well. Demise is the reason that the LoZ games exist and is super cool and his moveset is easy to do, idk he is my most wanted Loz character for sure, and yeah they could make him a costume but I dont think it does him justice. Id like Demise to be a pretty fast but ganon sized swordsman that uses his dark lighting and have them revamp ganon to be a heavy slow dark magic user, Idk it just seems perfect in my eyes but I doubt it will ever come to fruition.

Again, being the cause of the existence of characters doesn't make you popular or a character that should be in SSB. If it weren't for Miyamoto than Zelda wouldn't exist so let's make him a playable character.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

True... though that didn't stop them from including Sheik, nor spoiling the fact that Porky was a main plot point in Mother 3.

That is also true. Still, I suppose Zelda being Sheik is much of a spoiler as to how Romeo and Juliet die. They're essentially already public knowledge on part of just how classic and wide-spread of spoilers they are, making them no longer really seem like spoilers. Funny how that works.

As for Porky, you got me there. Though I'm sure to the Japanese audience, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to guess that a kid named Porky from one game leads an army of pigs in the next.

 

[mimgrim]

But, people would rather have an evolved Eevee with powers besides just being normal. and Sylveon is distinctive because she is gen 6, Fairy, had her own episode special, and she's the first evolution to appear by herself instead of being alongside another. She'd still be Eevee.

I disagree, once a Pokemon evolves it is no longer that previous Pokemon, at least in my mind. Also Evee can have it's own powers besides normal shizz, Eevee can learn moves/be given moves like Shadow Ball, Sand Attack, Hidden Power, Protect, Dig, Retaliate, Mimic, Mud-Slap, Iron Tail, Synchronoise, and well you see where I am getting at. Eevee just makes more sense then a Eeveelution. Ofc it would be best if Eevee had a evolution gimmick, but Eevee still makes more sense then a Eeveelution.

It's true, so what's so funny other than the fact that you don't understand something so obvious?

It's the way he worded it man, That D&D refrence. xD

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I disagree, once a Pokemon evolves it is no longer that previous Pokemon, at least in my mind. Also Evee can have it's own powers besides normal shizz, Eevee can learn moves/be given moves like Shadow Ball, Sand Attack, Hidden Power, Protect, Dig, Retaliate, Mimic, Mud-Slap, Iron Tail, Synchronoise, and well you see where I am getting at. Eevee just makes more sense then a Eeveelution. Ofc it would be best if Eevee had a evolution gimmick, but Eevee still makes more sense then a Eeveelution.

Still think people would prefer Sylveon or some sort of evolved form. Also I still don't understand what's so funny. Sylveon used to be Eevee so are you implying she came out of nowhere and never was an Eevee?

 

[Autumn ♫]

What makes you think Toon Link's removal is likely. And just because Impa is popular doesn't make her important like the 3 main characters. If anything she's ranked as an Assist Trophy.

There's nothing to back up Toon Link's removal like there is his return. Sakurai hates cutting characters so why would he remove someone from the beginning before knowing if there's room or not? He wouldn't do that and Toon Link is more important than Impa, Vaati, or Tingle.

If there are any cuts, I do think that Toon Link would be the first to go. Sakarai said that as a rule Toon Link and Link would have the same moves and I honestly don't see the importance in a 2nd Link.

Impa's popular? That's new to hear.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

You see Demise and Ganondorf arent the same, Ganondorf obtained Demises power, when demise died he promised his hatred, evil and power would live on forever haunting them. Ganodorf is different its just their power derives from the same source, I can easily see demise being reborn by ghirahim once again in a later game and ganondorf being there as well. Demise is the reason that the LoZ games exist and is super cool and his moveset is easy to do, idk he is my most wanted Loz character for sure, and yeah they could make him a costume but I dont think it does him justice. Id like Demise to be a pretty fast but ganon sized swordsman that uses his dark lighting and have them revamp ganon to be a heavy slow dark magic user, Idk it just seems perfect in my eyes but I doubt it will ever come to fruition.

Pulled straight from Zelda Wiki:

Demise has a strong resemblance to Ganondorf; large stature, fiery red hair, dark skin; even his facial features are similar, and in the cutscene before the final battle with him, Ganondorf's leitmotif plays. Upon his defeat, Demise makes a claim that his hatred will not end, but will be reborn in the coming ages. The form of this evil is thought to be Ganon. Hyrule Historia specifically mentions that his flaming red hair is to signify a connection to Ganondorf. Demise is known as the Demon King, a title he shares with Malladus, both of which bear similarities to Ganon. Although it is translated differently in different games, in the Japanese games Ganon's title is commonly Dai Maō, meaning Great Demon King. Demise bears a curious glowing, X-shaped scar on his forehead. This may be the result of the Sealing Spike which imprisoned him for several eras. Anatomically, the mark's position on Demise's true form is difficult to compare to his form as The Imprisoned, as his head morphs a great deal during this transformation. However, it can be argued that the scar, once hidden by The Imprisoned's numerous "quills", was revealed once his forehead reformed. Curiously, this area of the brow is often occupied by the signature jewel which adorns his successor, Ganondorf. In Twilight Princess, one of Dark Beast Ganon's weak spots is his forehead, which glows in a similar manner. Also in Twilight Princess, a similar "glowing scar" is visible on Ganondorf's chest, where he was penetrated by the Sword of the Sages.

I think that pretty much speaks for they basically are the same, meaning to see both Demise and Ganondorf at the same time is essentially an impossibility.

 

[MagnesD3]

Again, being the cause of the existence of characters doesn't make you popular or a character that should be in SSB.

He should be in because he is one of the most important characters to the series (even though he is pretty new to our knowledge base) without him none of the other LoZ would have happened.