Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Scoliosis Jones]

Source.

Last I checked, Anna is considered the mascot, especially in Japan.


I'm not ignoring it because it makes a fallacious point. IS didn't "include" anybody. They gave a suggestion. Sakurai isn't under any obligation to follow a suggestion, so if he does follow one, it means Sakurai sees something in that suggestion.
In the case of Ike, he saw potential for a fighting style that contrasts Marth's. None of the other options save for Hector could supply that.


Never claimed you were.
However, your examples really fall apart;
1) We're talking in terms of characters; NOT designs or stages (which is a flawed argument in itself, as for every "recent" stage, we get an older one to go with it). Aside from that, in terms of design, Sakurai was going for a particular universal "look" for the characters. Logic dictates that the TP style fit the look more than the OoT style.
2) They DID pick stages from other Mario games. We have Luigi's Mansion (which wasn't recent by any stretch since it debuted before Melee), Mushroomy Kingdom (based on the first two levels in Super Mario Bros.), and Mario Circuit (which is an amalgam of different Mario Circuits over the years). Not only that, but Sunshine wasn't even recent in Brawl's time.
3) You're right; that IS the weakest point. Being recent and being selected as a Poké Ball summon are not mutually exclusive. It isn't a case of "oh, these guys are newer, I must include them somehow", but rather "oh, these guys didn't exist last time, let's see which ones would be interesting to include". Note how Brawl received BOTH 3rd Gen and 4th Gen summons rather than just 4th Gen because it was newer.


"Also, consider this. Let's say Ike was chosen by IS because he was recent, or the "new and exciting thing" along with his game. It is arguable that Roy was the same thing based off of Sakurai, however Roy was to be included in Brawl, meaning he wasn't getting rid of him. If he goes to IS and wants their input, they very well could say Chrom, because his game is their "new and exciting thing" whether people like it or not. Recency DOES mean something in this case. Again, arguably, each character besides Marth was brought in because of that."

You seem to be backpeddling your initial stance.


That was not the initial argument; do not change the goal post.
Your point was that it plays a role on character selection specifically.

My initial stance was hypothetical. That original comment was to lend credibility to the argument I was trying to make. However, after you clarified that he asked for a specific time frame for choosing a character, I realize that makes it different (hence why I said to disregard that sentence because I was wrong lol).

Quite honestly, I think that it is in the realm of possibility that recency played some sort of part in character choosing. Maybe not as much as I thought, but I believe it is there. Really, who's to say he doesn't find something interesting to work with for Chrom? We won't know that until he is either confirmed/ disconfirmed (it's not deconfirmed right?). I'd like to see both Roy AND Chrom.

Like I said, we'll see. Good points though Golden. Good discussion.

ALRIGHT. I WANT DISCUSSION GROUPS BACK. RIGHT NAOW.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Don't see how Marth/Ike/Roy would be considered "trolling", in fact people would actually prefer that.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

^Exactly. Even though i'd prefer to see all four get in, those three are definitely the most popular.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

I suppose it boils down to Marth/Ike/Roy being the "safe" options. I'd be impressed if they still put up a surprise, Sakurai could still do that. But basically there's at least a palpable expectation that one of those three won't make it in exchange for getting someone from Awakening.

Hence, Sakurai trolls no matter what he decides.

 

[Deleted member]

Like I said, we'll see. Good points though Golden. Good discussion.

ALRIGHT. I WANT DISCUSSION GROUPS BACK. RIGHT NAOW.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Personally, getting only Ike, Marth and Roy would piss me off. Because I for one am looking forward to the possibility of a new fire emblem character that has not been featured before. Fire emblem has too many damn good options to only go with veterans.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Personally, getting only Ike, Marth and Roy would piss me off. Because I for one am looking forward to the possibility of a new fire emblem character that has not been featured before. Fire emblem has too many damn good options to only go with veterans.

We said the same for Mario and Brawl.

 

[Noler_Mass]

We said the same for Mario and Brawl.

What other good options are there from Mario though? I mean bowser jr. is pretty important but brawls roster was more limited. And plus fire emblem has a different protagonist for every different game. Mario already has the main character, antagonist, love interest, and sidekick. Since Mario is a game with such a similar plot in every game, it's feasible that this could be the same Mario roster for the ssb4 too. But in fire emblems case there are so many other characters to give spots too that have played the protagonist or iconic antagonist (cough the black knight cough) roles in their games. Don't you think that at least one new fire emblem character should be added? I honestly don't care about Ike and Roy's returns as long as we get a new character.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Fire emblem has too many damn good options to only go with veterans.

Because Chrom and Lucina are "damn good options"...

 

[Noler_Mass]

Because Chrom and Lucina are "damn good choices"...

Alm, leaf, Sigurd, lyn, hector, ephraim, Eirika, the black knight, Chrom, Lucina, and robin are all characters who definetly could merit a spot. Within the series itself, not withstanding popularity, Roy and Ike are just as important as most of these characters. Mario, luigi, bowser and peach are far superior than any other character that could feasibly be added from Mario.

And before you say it, I do not mean every one of those characters is going to get a spot, I'm saying that they all could get one. Fire emblem has so many options that not even adding one new one seems outrageous.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, so a break in Fire Emblem topics would be great just about now. So a couple of things.
---
Has anyone noticed that characters can have their popularity at least partially improved by fear of the character dying?

I noticed this phenomenon with Mega Man. Back at shortly after E3 2011, Mega Man was among the Top 5, but I couldn't say that he was the most wanted (I had no idea whoever of the three of King K. Rool, Ridley and Little Mac were more popular, thought Mewtwo was below them at the time). But after all the turbulent events surrounding Mega Man, rather than depreciating or even collapsing the fan base like most fan base would have done after the last few years, Mega Man has only steadily increased in fan requests to the point where he's probably the most wanted newcomer for this game. Whatever the case is, the bottom line is that many people fear for the future of the Mega Man franchise and I would imagine that part of the reason why Mega Man continues to receive increased amount of support (despite the increasing pessimism regarding him in Smash) is because they want assurance that Capcom doesn't hate Mega Man and hope that the franchise will continue to make quality games again.

Personally, I'm not afraid of the franchise future since I'm confident that the franchise will be brought back to making good games after Capcom thinks about how to approach future games, although I do feel as this will likely be Mega Man's only chance of getting into a Smash game.

Similar cases could also be provided to a lesser extent towards King K. Rool and Isaac.
---
Also, is anyone aware of when negotiation with Namco Bandai and Sakurai in regards to Namco helping to develop the game start? I don't mean when the partnership was announced but when Sakurai and Namco began to talk about Namco helping with the game.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The "life support" seems to only effect certain characters, which only shows you the true passion of these characters. Others over the years have collapsed, but in these cases that's not the deal. That is something to admire.

 

[Noler_Mass]

The "life support" seems to only effect certain characters, which only shows you the true passion of these characters. Others over the years have collapsed, but in these cases that's not the deal. That is something to admire.

I think usually the support of a character that is near death kind of depends on whether the last games the characters starred in were crap or not. From what I heard the last few mega mans were good so he will be dying off of such a high note.

 

[3Bismyname]

Megamans last few games werent that good. there was obviously Megaman 10 which was a fine throwback to the classic series. but otherwise, outside of ports and collections, there hadnt been a really well received Megaman game since the Mega Man ZX Advent in 2008 as far as i can tell. Megaman pretty much runs on name power at this point more than quality games. he didnt die on a high note, the quality of Megaman franchise was slowly dying for awhile honestly. and it hurts to say that.

 

[Deleted member]

The "life support" seems to only effect certain characters, which only shows you the true passion of these characters. Others over the years have collapsed, but in these cases that's not the deal. That is something to admire.

The "life support" effect really does show what characters are the strongest. Look at Diddy Kong and Sonic. Both characters were going through downtime during pre-Brawl, yet both of these character were incredibly highly requested (especially Sonic). The reason wasn't because their franchise was in a good position but because of the love of the characters themselves. It was because of the character's merits that they got in.

I can certainly say that the "life support" effect has only made me more passionate about seeing Mega Man in the next Smash. Seeing the franchise in such a turbulent time has made me truly appreciate what makes guest so special instead of treating Mega Man as entitled to a spot in the next Smash (even if I feel as it's only a matter of time before Mega Man returns to making games). Had the franchise been in a good shape, I wouldn't have bothered to defend Mega Man nearly as much as I do, let alone type five large counterarguments to the biggest arguments brought up against him. I'd say that the recent years have shown how passionate Mega Man fans really are and how strong of a character Mega Man is.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Because Chrom and Lucina are "damn good options"...

Basically, that is something that works for Chrom, being new and whatever. I hadn't even thought of that. But regardless, the conclusion that I have reached is that Roy is likely to get in, and if a fourth is added, then it would appear that Chrom is likely. If Chrom ends up added first, Roy will likely be the first after him.

That's how I see it now. This isn't in defense of Chrom or anything either. This is purely what I see the circumstances to be.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If there were less newcomers due to limitations (looking at you 3DS), I think this roster would best represent Nintendo and some of the franchises. I cut some characters because some franchises are overrepresented to me.
I put two additional characters with obscurity that best represents portable and console.

 

[Deleted member]

I must be the only one who sees BluePikmin as a troll here. I think it's best if we ignore him.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I must be the only one who sees BluePikmin as a troll here. I think it's best if we ignore him.

Ignore Goku if you don't like it.
If I removed him, would you like it?

 

[Opossum]

If there were less newcomers due to limitations (looking at you 3DS), I think this roster would best represent Nintendo and some of the franchises. I cut some characters because some franchises are overrepresented to me.
I put two additional characters with obscurity that best represents portable and console.

Time to tear this one apart.

Okay, first off, you cut Toon Link, Wolf, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, Lucas, and Ike. There's really no reason, especially with the poor choices that are in their places, which I'll get to later.

Second: Version exclusives are a terrible idea in the first place, but making some of the most wanted characters (K. Rool, Roy, and Mewtwo) version exclusives is a downright horrible idea.

As far as newcomers on both versions:
Little Mac = Good.
Takamaru = Good.
Ridley = Good.
Mega Man = Good.
Palutena = Good.
Shulk = Good.
Isaac = Good.
Pac- Man = Reasonable/Pretty good.
Red Hero? = I think this is going to be a problem. The W101 is pretty much devoid of newcomer support.
Tom Nook. Animal Crossing characters were already ruled out by Sakurai, so this is pretty damn unlikely.
Balloon Fighter. I have my doubts, but eh.


Goku. This is where you lose ALL credibility. Goku has no shot whatsoever, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

And Mr. Hanafuda is still a terrible idea.

To remedy this:

Remove the version exclusiveness, Goku, Mr. Hanafuda, Sheriff, Tom Nook, Chibi Robo, and Balloon Fighter, add back the Brawl cuts, and remove the Red Hero. Add the other previous exclusives to the roster. Oh, and if you want an obscure Gameboy retro, Muddy Mole > Prince of Sable

 

[BluePikmin11]

(While ignoring Mr. Hanafuda, Sheriff, and Goku)
I really can't find a way to make both versions special if you going to remove all exclusiveness.
I think Tom Nook is great representation to me, Animal Crossing today is really big right now, I pretty sure people would want to play as him.
Also Red Hero's ability to call out heroes and make them weapons makes for an interesting character to itself.

 

[Opossum]

So you ignore all of the things that make your roster completely trash?

That being said, there are ways to make things exclusive without tampering with the roster.

 

[FalKoopa]

@BluePikmin
Nice wishlist.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So you ignore all of the things that make your roster completely trash?

That being said, there are ways to make things exclusive without tampering with the roster.

Give me some ways please.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If there were less newcomers due to limitations (looking at you 3DS), I think this roster would best represent Nintendo and some of the franchises. I cut some characters because some franchises are overrepresented to me.
I put two additional characters with obscurity that best represents portable and console.

Honestly, the only good thing I see here is that you included Isaac...

The rest just reaks WTFAMIIREADINGHERE-vibes.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Give me some ways please.

Version exclusive stages, trophies, costumes, and game modes. There could also be bonuses for connecting the two games, such as being able to unlock things sooner or some bonus content that can't be obtained any other way(like some special trophy).

 

[Opossum]

Give me some ways please.

Different Stages
Different music
Streetpass bonuses of some sort
Possibly a new game mode
Character customization
More Single-player stuff.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Honestly, the only good thing I see here is that you included Isaac...

The rest just reaks WTFAMIIREADINGHERE-vibes.

Well I just limited myself to under 50 characters, while appropriately repping franchises based on general things, as if both versions were going to have the same middle roster while maintaining exclusiveness.

Version exclusive stages, trophies, costumes, and game modes. There could also be bonuses for connecting the two games, such as being able to unlock things sooner or some bonus content that can't be obtained any other way(like some special trophy).

Sakurai knows it's all about the characters, even stages don't matter in the game.
I gotta at least do something so that I'm convinced to buy both versions.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Sakurai knows it's all about the characters, even stages don't matter in the game.

I gotta at least do something so that I'm convinced to buy both versions.

Why? Why not just let people get the version for the platform they prefer? And what about the connection bonuses I mentioned?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Why? Why not just let people get the version for the platform they prefer? And what about the connection bonuses I mentioned?

Because $40 is better than $60, therefore (if both versions had the same but slightly different content), it worsen sales for the Wii U.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Because $40 is better than $60, therefore (if both versions had the same but slightly different content), it worsen sales for the Wii U.

Price isn't the only thing that will be taken into consideration. Content will almost assuredly be shrunk down/compressed/removed from the 3DS version compared to the Wii U version, so some may consider the Wii U version the superior version. Others way prefer the Wii U controller to the 3DS controls.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well If the 3DS Version is your training while you're gone, and the Wii U is all the content and the big day, I guess that could work.

 

[Deleted member]

Megamans last few games werent that good. there was obviously Megaman 10 which was a fine throwback to the classic series. but otherwise, outside of ports and collections, there hadnt been a really well received Megaman game since the Mega Man ZX Advent in 2008 as far as i can tell. Megaman pretty much runs on name power at this point more than quality games. he didnt die on a high note, the quality of Megaman franchise was slowly dying for awhile honestly. and it hurts to say that.

I'm not sure how we can call Mega Man a dead franchise yet. It certainly isn't nearly as good as it has been in the past few years, but at least the franchise is still receiving contents. It's still getting games (and yes, Rock Man Xover is a game despite the game play being nothing special), it's still getting merchandise and Capcom still acknowledge the franchise's existence.

Then again, I'm the same person who doesn't consider a franchise dead unless there's reasons to believe that this franchise will never again get a game and I don't think Mega Man is even close to that path yet.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

My prediction for version differences:

-No roster exclusives for characters
-Online Multiplayer for 3DS has less stage variety, to cut down on lag
-3DS version has Adventure Mode/SSE, Wii U version has classic mode
-Customization is more heavily configured for 3DS

I'm still wondering how there will be gamechangers to SSB's formula.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well the whole roster could be entirely have new moves for every character, with a new formula of controls special to each version.
That could be a game changer.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well I just limited myself to under 50 characters, while appropriately repping franchises based on general things, as if both versions were going to have the same middle roster while maintaining exclusiveness.

Goku though?

Like, actually, Dragon Ball Z's Goku...

In Smash Bros.?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Goku though?

Like, actually, Dragon Ball Z's Goku...

In Smash Bros.?

Namco Bandai has the rights to use Dragonball characters in whatever videogame they put them right?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Namco Bandai however doesn't OWN Dragon Ball characters and would need some serious premission from first: the creators of Dragon Ball and second: Nintendo themselves. They won't go around and add Goku cause they want to.

 

[SmashChu]

Okay, so a break in Fire Emblem topics would be great just about now. So a couple of things.
---
Has anyone noticed that characters can have their popularity at least partially improved by fear of the character dying?

I noticed this phenomenon with Mega Man. Back at shortly after E3 2011, Mega Man was among the Top 5, but I couldn't say that he was the most wanted (I had no idea whoever of the three of King K. Rool, Ridley and Little Mac were more popular, thought Mewtwo was below them at the time). But after all the turbulent events surrounding Mega Man, rather than depreciating or even collapsing the fan base like most fan base would have done after the last few years, Mega Man has only steadily increased in fan requests to the point where he's probably the most wanted newcomer for this game. Whatever the case is, the bottom line is that many people fear for the future of the Mega Man franchise and I would imagine that part of the reason why Mega Man continues to receive increased amount of support (despite the increasing pessimism regarding him in Smash) is because they want assurance that Capcom doesn't hate Mega Man and hope that the franchise will continue to make quality games again.

Personally, I'm not afraid of the franchise future since I'm confident that the franchise will be brought back to making good games after Capcom thinks about how to approach future games, although I do feel as this will likely be Mega Man's only chance of getting into a Smash game.

Similar cases could also be provided to a lesser extent towards King K. Rool and Isaac.
---
Also, is anyone aware of when negotiation with Namco Bandai and Sakurai in regards to Namco helping to develop the game start? I don't mean when the partnership was announced but when Sakurai and Namco began to talk about Namco helping with the game.

It's an interesting point. It may be true but you can't tell how popular a character is with pinpoint accuracy. Shortie's newest poll has different results than the first one. So it may be looking at different charts.

 

[BluePikmin11]

They would add him because he is the most popular anime hero of all time.