Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Uranium235]

It was a joke...

 

[_R@bid_]

B
But theres never anything bad on the internet!

I'm so tempted to show all the horrible, horrible things that prove this wrong.

 

[FalKoopa]

It was a joke...

Whoops.

 

[Uranium235]

I'm so tempted to show all the horrible, horrible things that prove this wrong.

Or you could just link us to 4chan

 

[_R@bid_]

Lol, that's what I WAS gonna do.

 

[Uranium235]

I went there once.. ONCE

 

[FourStar]

I can see blaziken feasibly making the cut, especially if lucario goes away (though this is not likely). The would probably include one of the newer ones from the newest generation (i really havent followed pokemon for years so i dont even know which generation this is lol) i also think they could find room for deoxys if they dont add blaziken

ok i wouldn't go that far. blaziken is cutting it a little. he would have been in brawl if blaziken made it to a game

 

[LaniusShrike]

Am I the only person who never got into Pokemon? After growing up with Final Fantasy, it felt weird making little animals explode and then seeing "Slowpoke has feinted!"

So, I'm woefully out of touch with the Pokemon. What I can say, though, is that I really dislike Mewtwo's awakened design compared to his old one. It doesn't seem more evolved, it seems like a weird stunted child version of him.

 

[_R@bid_]

I have to agree about Newtwo. He's not necessarily bad, but he looks more like a prevolution than an alternative form.

 

[Deleted member]

I have to agree about Newtwo. He's not necessarily bad, but he looks more like a prevolution than an alternative form.

I see it as more of a parallel to Frieza.
Frieza's "ultimate" form is much smaller than his 2nd or 3rd forms (so more like his 1st), yet is much more deadly.

 

[Dark Phazon]

When is that Genesect movie out in USA/To view on internet....

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Isn't Genesect's popularity kinda recent? I don't think I've seen him outside an event, and US "shouldn't" know about his movie yet.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

There is no reason to believe IS wanted Ike because he was the most recent.
There is no reason to believe Sakurai wanted to include Ike because he was the most recent.

Sakurai isn't under any obligation to include a character for the sole purpose of being the most recent. He has his reasoning.
For Roy, it was that he believed Roy was a character that would obtain popularity easily (he was not wrong), and his fire sword stood out from other options for a Marth clone. That, and he served as promotion for not just his upcoming game, but for the series as a whole.
For Ike, it was that Ike offered a unique contrasting style from Marth, being slow and powerful as opposed to weak and fast.

The best people can think of for Chrom is an in-between, and that's boring as can be. And with the fact too many comparisons are drawn between Chrom to Marth and Ike should lead people to understand that Chrom has nothing going for him but recency, however, that isn't going to help him.
Especially since near EVERY FE lord is now recent due to Awakening and the upcoming SMT X FE.

EDIT: Also, saying Chrom can have a unique moveset because "this is Sakurai we're talking about here" is kind of silly.
Sakurai made Captain Ganon, after all.

You cannot deny that recency plays some sort of part in character choosing. It is simply logic. IS would pick Ike over a 10 year old character that hasn't appeared in a long time. That's common sense. There is reason to believe that that was part of the reason he was included. I would never argue that as the main reason however.

Really, it doesn't matter, because it is most likely down to Roy and Chrom. It just depends on what Sakurai wants.

 

[Uranium235]

Actually now that i think about it that mewthree thing might get in ssb4 (not too likely but you never know)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Actually now that i think about it that mewthree thing might get in ssb4 (not too likely but you never know)

Nah. It's really likely actually.

Add Mewtwo back in and replace his terrible \/ B move with a transformation move, that transforms him into his new form.

It'd be awesome!

 

[Robert of Normandy]

What? The internet can be good, bad or ugly as you see it and make of it. I suggest you to brace yourself.

Or? You sure that's the right word?

 

[_R@bid_]

Nah. It's really likely actually.

Add Mewtwo back in and replace his terrible \/ B move with a transformation move, that transforms him into his new form.

It'd be awesome!

I would prefer plain . I don't like the new design, and prefer his current play style without an added transformation , which Sakurai doesn't seem to be good at balancing.

 

[FlareHabanero]

You like Mewtwo's current play style? As in, the ****ty one from Melee? Bleh, it's disgusting when people actually praise something like that. It should be revolted, not praised.

Really, it doesn't matter, because it is most likely down to Roy and Chrom. It just depends on what Sakurai wants.

Hope you like Roy then.

 

[_R@bid_]

I like the play style, but want it balanced. I do find him disgustingly weak, but if he received an overall buff while still keeping that semi grappler play style, I'd be most satisfied.

 

[kikaru]

If we're making the connection that Newtwo is analogous to Freiza's ultimate form someone needs to update this:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1120127-Mewtwo-VS-Frieza (Picture only)

 

[JPW]

Am I the only person who never got into Pokemon? After growing up with Final Fantasy, it felt weird making little animals explode and then seeing "Slowpoke has feinted!"

So, I'm woefully out of touch with the Pokemon. What I can say, though, is that I really dislike Mewtwo's awakened design compared to his old one. It doesn't seem more evolved, it seems like a weird stunted child version of him.

i never got into it either. But it's only because i grew up with Megaman, Mario, Sonic and Mortal Kombat. And my brother had a horrible pokemon addiction problem, where he would steal money to get cards.

Nowadays i have no time for it what with the Smash Bros, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Uncharted, Final Fantasy, Mario, Sonic, Mortal Kombat, Xenoblade, Metroid, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, Resident Evil...... How can i play Pokemon now?

 

[Noler_Mass]

Why won't you play me...

 

[Ridley_Prime]

If we're making the connection that Newtwo is analogous to Freiza's ultimate form someone needs to update this:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1120127-Mewtwo-VS-Frieza

I couldn't read more than three pages of that trash. Same old fanwank of how DBZ characters are insanely overpowered or "unstoppable" because they can destroy planets, while all Pokemon are just some weak critters. That or seeing crap like "Mewtwo can just give someone a headache at best. Frieza kills him instantly with death beam!"


So I doubt bringing up Mewtwo's new form will change what the stupid people of that thread think.

 

[kikaru]

I couldn't read more than three pages of that trash. Same old fanwank of how DBZ characters are insanely overpowered or "unstoppable" because they can destroy planets, while all Pokemon are just some weak critters. That or seeing crap like "Mewtwo can just give someone a headache at best. Frieza kills him instantly with death beam!"


So I doubt bringing up Mewtwo's new form will change what the stupid people of that thread think.

Oh, I didn't pay attention to the thread I just wanted the picture. Lol

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Oh, fair enough on that. I did like how Mewtwo was like twice as big as Frieza in that picture of the opening post, which kinda made him look the more intimidating of the two. If it was updated with Mewtwo's new form, then Frieza would probably be depicted as a little taller. >.>

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Hope you like Roy then.

Of course I wouldn't mind Roy. But who really knows what we'll get until Sakurai starts to reveal things? No one knows for sure until a character is flat out confirmed to not be in the game.

 

[Banjodorf]

You know, I think Chrom sounds much more boring on paper than he could potentially be in the game.

God yes, I totally agree. Honestly, unless there's some kind of bizarre happenstance, the only FE characters possibly added are Chrom and/or Roy. Let's be real, and not get into a giant debate. (I say this, with the understanding that not only are they the most popular, but they are the only two who are generally agreed upon. While a certain spoilerific character has some support, it pales in comparison to either.) It'd be best not to show the new people that that's all we can do here when FE is mentioned!

So how 'bout that Buutwo?

 

[Oasis_S]

I figured you guys were talking about how good my roster is this whole time.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I figured you guys were talking about how good my roster is this whole time.

Something that beautiful can't be described in words...

 

[Deleted member]

You cannot deny that recency plays some sort of part in character choosing. It is simply logic. IS would pick Ike over a 10 year old character that hasn't appeared in a long time. That's common sense. There is reason to believe that that was part of the reason he was included. I would never argue that as the main reason however.

Really, it doesn't matter, because it is most likely down to Roy and Chrom. It just depends on what Sakurai wants.

Explain Marth. Why would IS allow Sakurai to include Marth over their most recent character, Leif? Or even their upcoming character, Roy? Outside of Alm (since Marth was also in the game after his), Marth was behind quite a bit of people. Siglud, Seliph, Leif, and the upcoming Roy.
If they cared about who was most recent, wouldn't you think they would convince Sakurai to not go with Marth?

And yes, I can deny that recency plays some part in character choosing, simply because there are so many examples that defy it.
Unless you mean some as "very little", in which case, I do agree that it plays "some" part for some characters.
Ike being an example falls short, however, as Sakurai specifically asked for suggestions for a character post-Binding Blade.
When you weigh in the options, Ike was the only one that actually made sense (inb4manlystartsalynargument), which is why Sakurai went with their suggestion instead of going with someone else.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Explain Marth. Why would IS allow Sakurai to include Marth over their most recent character, Leif? Or even their upcoming character, Roy? Outside of Alm (since Marth was also in the game after his), Marth was behind quite a bit of people. Siglud, Seliph, Leif, and the upcoming Roy.
If they cared about who was most recent, wouldn't you think they would convince Sakurai to not go with Marth?

And yes, I can deny that recency plays some part in character choosing, simply because there are so many examples that defy it.
Unless you mean some as "very little", in which case, I do agree that it plays "some" part for some characters.
Ike being an example falls short, however, as Sakurai specifically asked for suggestions for a character post-Binding Blade.
When you weigh in the options, Ike was the only one that actually made sense (inb4manlystartsalynargument), which is why Sakurai went with their suggestion instead of going with someone else.

Marth is considered the mascot. The idea of recency does not apply to him.

What my point is, is why wouldn't IS include a different lord over Ike if recency isn't a part of it? Why not include a different lord who was included years before hand? (Although now that I read you comment again, ignore this sentence)

I'm not trying to make the point that it is the most important part, but it's there in SOME cases, not every single one. Here are a few other examples where recency is applicable.

Zelda character designs and stages. If recency doesn't matter, then why not go with OoT designs and stages?
Delfino Plaza. Why not pick a stage from a different Mario game?
Particular Pokeball Pokemon. If recency doesn't matter, why bother including newer Pokemon? (granted I will admit this is the weakest point)

By no means am I saying Chrom is incredibly likely because he is new. Just that part of the game (whether it is large or not) is catered to new things they have brought out. Whether they go with Chrom or not is up to the team.

Recency is relevant, in some form or another.

EDIT: So yes, basically as you said, it isn't a huge part. But it matters to some degree.

 

[Deleted member]

Marth is considered the mascot. The idea of recency does not apply to him.

Source.

Last I checked, Anna is considered the mascot, especially in Japan.

What my point is, is why wouldn't IS include a different lord over Ike if recency isn't a part of it? Why not include a different lord who was included years before hand? (Although now that I read you comment again, ignore this sentence)

I'm not ignoring it because it makes a fallacious point. IS didn't "include" anybody. They gave a suggestion. Sakurai isn't under any obligation to follow a suggestion, so if he does follow one, it means Sakurai sees something in that suggestion.
In the case of Ike, he saw potential for a fighting style that contrasts Marth's. None of the other options save for Hector could supply that.

I'm not trying to make the point that it is the most important part, but it's there in SOME cases, not every single one. Here are a few other examples where recency is applicable.

Zelda character designs and stages. If recency doesn't matter, then why not go with OoT designs and stages?
Delfino Plaza. Why not pick a stage from a different Mario game?
Particular Pokeball Pokemon. If recency doesn't matter, why bother including newer Pokemon? (granted I will admit this is the weakest point)

Never claimed you were.
However, your examples really fall apart;
1) We're talking in terms of characters; NOT designs or stages (which is a flawed argument in itself, as for every "recent" stage, we get an older one to go with it). Aside from that, in terms of design, Sakurai was going for a particular universal "look" for the characters. Logic dictates that the TP style fit the look more than the OoT style.
2) They DID pick stages from other Mario games. We have Luigi's Mansion (which wasn't recent by any stretch since it debuted before Melee), Mushroomy Kingdom (based on the first two levels in Super Mario Bros.), and Mario Circuit (which is an amalgam of different Mario Circuits over the years). Not only that, but Sunshine wasn't even recent in Brawl's time.
3) You're right; that IS the weakest point. Being recent and being selected as a Poké Ball summon are not mutually exclusive. It isn't a case of "oh, these guys are newer, I must include them somehow", but rather "oh, these guys didn't exist last time, let's see which ones would be interesting to include". Note how Brawl received BOTH 3rd Gen and 4th Gen summons rather than just 4th Gen because it was newer.

By no means am I saying Chrom is incredibly likely because he is new. Just that part of the game (whether it is large or not) is catered to new things they have brought out. Whether they go with Chrom or not is up to the team.

"Also, consider this. Let's say Ike was chosen by IS because he was recent, or the "new and exciting thing" along with his game. It is arguable that Roy was the same thing based off of Sakurai, however Roy was to be included in Brawl, meaning he wasn't getting rid of him. If he goes to IS and wants their input, they very well could say Chrom, because his game is their "new and exciting thing" whether people like it or not. Recency DOES mean something in this case. Again, arguably, each character besides Marth was brought in because of that."

You seem to be backpeddling your initial stance.

Recency is relevant, in some form or another.

That was not the initial argument; do not change the goal post.
Your point was that it plays a role on character selection specifically.

 

[Noler_Mass]

I'm just going to say this once and for all, the mascot discussion about fire emblem is pointless, fire emblem does not have a mascot, not Marth, not Anna, not Ike, not Chrom, not lyn, not hector, not Oliver , not ANYONE. A mascot is a character that is used to advertise a series and unless instantly recognized as the mascot, it probably isn't one. For example pikachu has been used to advertise nearly every pokemon game ever other than black and white which was stupid. Fox advertises star fox, samus advertises metroid, Mario advertises all of his games and spin-offs. Point is, the only characters used for advertising are the characters in the game itself. The only character who does carry on from game to game is Anna and personally I've never seen an advertisement of her. She may have some credentials to be the mascot but when looking at other games mascots she just drops dead and shrivels into nothing. Fire emblem does not have any mascot that is a character. I guess you could make a case for the whole manatee race being the mascot or something but that's irrelavent.

In Marths case, he was featured in two games already and he was the original fire emblem character, so I'd guess that's why he was chosen. Seriously I think the only reason that everyone assumes that Marth is the mascot of fire emblem is because he is the staple smash bros fire emblem character. I mean don't get me wrong he has about as much chance as pikachu to get in this game, but one thing he isn't is the mascot of fire emblem. That is all.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Sees the discussion is about FE
Presses the back button.

 

[N3ON]

I'd say now Marth is the face of the series, but I agree that's not exactly the same thing as a mascot. A mascot is more like Pikachu or Slime or something. I guess Anna could be a mascot... but as she's not really used to promote or represent the series, I'd say she's more like a recurring element/character, even if she's popular in Japan. The mascot for Fire Emblem really seems to be the Falchion in my opinion, and even that's debatable. Not every series needs a mascot.

However, before his inclusion in Melee, I wouldn't even say Marth was the face of the series, just the most popular lord. He wasn't really used to represent the series as a whole yet, even if he did get that anime. Ofc I didn't much know about FE before Melee, so it's not like I can speak from first-hand experience.

 

[Noler_Mass]

I'd say now Marth is the face of the series, but I agree that's not exactly the same thing as a mascot. A mascot is more like Pikachu or Slime or something. I guess Anna could be a mascot... but as she's not really used to promote or represent the series, I'd say she's more like a recurring element/character, even if she's popular in Japan. The mascot for Fire Emblem really seems to be the Falchion in my opinion, and even that's debatable. Not every series needs a mascot.

However, before his inclusion in Melee, I wouldn't even say Marth was the face of the series, just the most popular lord. He wasn't really used to represent the series as a whole yet, even if he did get that anime. Ofc I didn't much know about FE before Melee, so it's not like I can speak from first-hand experience.

Not many Americans knew anything about fire emblem before Melee. And it's likely true that he wasn't. Like I said fire emblem just does not have a mascot. So any mascot related arguments or face of the series related arguments are irrelavent.

 

[kikaru]

I'd say now Marth is the face of the series, but I agree that's not exactly the same thing as a mascot. A mascot is more like Pikachu or Slime or something. I guess Anna could be a mascot... but as she's not really used to promote or represent the series, I'd say she's more like a recurring element/character, even if she's popular in Japan. The mascot for Fire Emblem really seems to be the Falchion in my opinion, and even that's debatable. Not every series needs a mascot.

However, before his inclusion in Melee, I wouldn't even say Marth was the face of the series, just the most popular lord. He wasn't really used to represent the series as a whole yet, even if he did get that anime. Ofc I didn't much know about FE before Melee, so it's not like I can speak from first-hand experience.

I probably couldn't have put it any better than this. Also Golden, out of curiosity, where is your source that Anna is considered the mascot?

Edit: Some forumers almost seem to start 'tossing' around the phrase, 'In Japan...'
But is this really representative of the entire Japanese player base of Smash or is it a forum or collection of forums like Smashboards that we are deriving this information from? (Honest question)

 

[N3ON]

Edit: Some forumers almost seem to start 'tossing' around the phrase, 'In Japan...'
But is this really representative of the entire Japanese player base of Smash or is it a forum or collection of forums like Smashboards that we are deriving this information from? (Honest question)

The people who visit Japanese sites try to visit as many as possible that discuss Smash so as to get the most extensive understanding of popularity, so the generally agreed on popularity results and trends are the average of several different sites. Of course some sites are hard to access and some of the sites visited have questionable credibility, but for the most part similar results have been found.

These are just other people on the web though, it doesn't give the whole spectrum of Japanese popularity, so sometimes you have to consider which series are just naturally more popular in Japan than the west (like Kirby, Pokemon, FE, Mother, Xenoblade) ones that are less popular (like Metroid, Starfox, Punch-Out, Golden Sun, retro series), and ones that are about the same (Mario, Zelda, DK, F-Zero, Pikmin, Kid Icarus, etc.).

Lots of people like to exaggerate or underplay Japanese popularity though, when it suits their argument. Some statements about Japanese popularity are also questionable. I've done a bit of checking into Japanese Smash popularity, but the best person to ask is ChronoBound.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Sees the discussion is about FE
Presses the back button.

Why should you? This is the most entertaining stuff ever. Either Sakurai trolls by using only "blue hair lords", trolls by being safe (only Ike/Marth/Roy), or trolls by using somebody unexpected (i.e popular female mage). There will be (very entertaining) rage regardless.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Why should you? This is the most entertaining stuff ever. Either Sakurai trolls by using only "blue hair lords", trolls by being safe (only Ike/Marth/Roy), or trolls by using somebody unexpected (i.e popular female mage). There will be (very entertaining) rage regardless.

*runs for life*