Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

LINK
"A young man who emerged to rescue Hyrule from peril. He's the bearer of the Triforce of Courage who fights to keep Ganondorf from conquering the world. His green outfit is a constant throughout the series. He's a skilled swordsman, horseman, and archer. He's also proficient with bombs and boomerangs."

ZELDA
"The princess of Hyrule. In other games, her role changes between titles. In Ocarina of Time, she was hunted by the would-be conqueror, Ganondorf. She deceived him, however, by adopting the persona of Sheik. In Twilight Princess, she surrendered to Zant and was held as his prisoner."

... So what? It's just the basic information of both characters. I kinda sorta see what you're going for, but not quite.

You and Morbid must be blind; thankfully, I underlined the major points of interest.

Link and Zelda in Brawl are the TP Link and Zelda.
They are not the OoT Link and Zelda that appeared in Melee.
They are not the WW Link and Zelda that were also in Brawl (or almost, in Zelda's case).
They are not any other Link and Zelda in the timeline.

Yet they are being all labeled as one and the same.
Unless you think TP Link's green outfit is a constant throughout the series and he has appeared in every game since The Legend of Zelda (which is stated as his first appearance).
Or unless you think TP Zelda has her role changed between titles, deceived Ganondorf by becoming Sheik in Ocarina of Time, and has been in every game since The Legend of Zelda (which is stated as her first appearance).

And then we have Toon Link as "Link as he appeared in Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass" rather than "The Link that appeared in Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass".

 

[TheCreator]

Did anybody read what I said? I tried explaining it more simply.
I said: "He's trying to say Sakurai sees the characters of 'Link' and 'Zelda' as universal characters. Essentially he sees the idea of the character, not the specific one of any game" and I'll add to that by saying that there's even more proof in links falling attack, Idk what it's called, when you're falling and you want to land on an opponent to inflict damage so he holds his sword upside down and lands on it? idfk how to explain it
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...tbnh=181&tbnw=123&start=0&ndsp=22&tx=49&ty=80
This. He only does this in games where he is classic link. AKA he is never labeled or designed as a link from those games, but he still has that ability.

@DeathKidZ: NO STOP DON"T FIX SOMETHING THAT'S NOT BROKEN
Take bomberman OFF YUCK ew
And Impa
And Toad
lol

 

[Morbi]

You missed the point entirely.
Sakurai literally refers to Link as an individual, and all the collective Links as the Link.

This is of course, in Smash canon, not Zelda canon.


1. Those OoT spells? Not part of her character. She never used them. Link did.
2. She had a rapier and was shown with magic skills when Ganondorf controlled her. That was definitely something new for her to use that isn't taking spells she never used.


You have no proof of this whatsoever.
It stands to reason that if Sakurai meant Tetra, the filename would be "tetra" and NOT "toon_sheik". No other character's data has such a deceptive name. Closest is Olimar, who's filename is "pikmin", but given that he's officially "Pikmin & Olimar", having "pikmin" as the filename makes sense.
And if Toon Zelda was meant to be a stand alone, there would be no file for "toon_sheik" in the first place.
And finally, Toon Link was purposely a clone; why would Toon Zelda have a non-cloned moveset?


"Toon" is what is used to give Link's WW incarnation a moniker that distinguishes from the other "Link" in Brawl. "Toon" refers to WW's carTOONish proportions. So yes, if Ganondorf as he appeared in Wind Waker was in Brawl alongside the TP Ganondorf, it would be "Toon Ganondorf".


It doesn't hold, because it doesn't apply to Smash. It doesn't matter if within the Zelda timeline, they are separate individuals, they are one and the same within Smash.

1. I didn't say the spells were part of her character. Read my sentence again. I said... THEY WERE PART OF HER CHARACTER FROM MELEE.
2. New spells that she used when Ganondorf controlled her... hmm. I am going to say that she didn't have those for the same reason people don't want Skull-Kid. We don't know if they are her moves... or Ganon's. Sakurai doesn't really update the characters too much anyways. He wants to retain the play-style for all of the people who mained the characters.

I didn't look at the game's code. I thought you were implying that Toon Sheik wasn't listed. Even so... I am deeply shocked that he would have used a Toon Sheik over Tetra. That is surprising, super unexpected. I would actually question his sanity. It would have been funny seeing Toon Sheik though.

My point was that Toon Ganondorf isn't his name. It is the same thing as (WW). It is just to specify. If he was in the game, I am fairly certain he would indeed be named Toon Ganondorf.

If all Links were the same in Smash canon, why is Link playable if ST Link is in the background of a stage? I don't understand why Toon Link would be out... but Link wouldn't. That is my point. It isn't consistent. You would have to claim that Toon Link is different than Link. That would be antithetical to what you were trying to prove.

 

[Reznor]

whats all this talk about Smash canon I thought smash didn't have a canon and if it does it doesn't seem that important to the game
if smash does have canon than why is bowser standing upright it goes against my canon

now I wait for GoldenYuiitusin to prove me wrong because I know he will

 

[SchAlternate]

@SchAlternate He's trying to say Sakurai sees the characters of 'Link' and 'Zelda' as universal characters. Essentially he sees the idea of the character, not the specific one of any game

Well duh. But I don't feel that every Link and Zelda are treated as the same characters, it's simply the appearance being updated to match that of the current one. Obviously, it represents every single incarnation of the characters.

But y'know, it doesn't really confirms the removal of Toon Link. Whether or not he considers the Link that appears in the ST stage as Toon Link is beyond any of us. In fact, I bet that Toon Link will use items from Minish Cap/Four Swords if he manages to sneak in the next game.

 

[Morbi]

You and Morbid must be blind; thankfully, I underlined the major points of interest.

Link and Zelda in Brawl are the TP Link and Zelda.
They are not the OoT Link and Zelda that appeared in Melee.
They are not the WW Link and Zelda that were also in Brawl (or almost, in Zelda's case).
They are not any other Link and Zelda in the timeline.

Yet they are being all labeled as one and the same.
Unless you think TP Link's green outfit is a constant throughout the series and he has appeared in every game since The Legend of Zelda (which is stated as his first appearance).
Or unless you think TP Zelda has her role changed between titles, deceived Ganondorf by becoming Sheik in Ocarina of Time, and has been in every game since The Legend of Zelda (which is stated as her first appearance).

And then we have Toon Link as "Link as he appeared in Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass" rather than "The Link that appeared in Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass".

Your poor explanation correlates to us being blind? That is humorous. If you would have said that he uses the universal notion of the character as opposed to any given specific incarnation we wouldn't have even said anything. It is funny... the underlined portions of the post elaborate more than you did in your wall of text.

The contradictions in your post confused me. I apologize for that. Next time I will read your mind.

 

[TheCreator]

Well duh. But I don't feel that every Link and Zelda are treated as the same characters, it's simply the appearance being updated to match that of the current one. Obviously, it represents every single incarnation of the characters.

But y'know, it doesn't really confirms the removal of Toon Link. Whether or not he considers the Link that appears in the ST stage as Toon Link is beyond any of us. In fact, I bet that Toon Link will use items from Minish Cap/Four Swords if he manages to sneak in the next game.

It is beyond us. But by his reasoning which labels toon link as link's other, cartoony, big eyed incarnation, the link in that stage is Toon Link. The thing is he could slap him on a green tunic and just as easily make him playable. But here's the deal: Why have a character on one of your stages that looks exactly like one of your playable ones? And actually is in fact the same character...

If all Links were the same in Smash canon, why is Link playable if ST Link is in the background of a stage? I don't understand why Toon Link would be out... but Link wouldn't. That is my point. It isn't consistent. You would have to claim that Toon Link is different than Link. That would be antithetical to what you were trying to prove.

He is different than Link. He's a different INCARNATION of link. He is link, but different.
Think pokemon. Pokemon red is link. Pokemon blue is toon link. Same guy. Same game. Different version.
It's not antithethical to anything

And then we have Toon Link as "Link as he appeared in Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass" rather than "The Link that appeared in Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass".

^^^

 

[Morbi]

It is beyond us. But by his reasoning which labels toon link as link's other, cartoony, big eyed incarnation, the link in that stage is Toon Link. The thing is he could slap him on a green tunic and just as easily make him playable. But here's the deal: Why have a character on one of your stages that looks exactly like one of your playable ones? And actually is in fact the same character...


He is different than Link. He's a different INCARNATION of link. He is link, but different.
Think pokemon. Pokemon red is link. Pokemon blue is toon link. Same guy. Same game. Different version.
It's not antithethical to anything

No. I finally got what he was getting at. I get it now.

 

[Curious Villager]

It is beyond us. But by his reasoning which labels toon link as link's other, cartoony, big eyed incarnation, the link in that stage is Toon Link. The thing is he could slap him on a green tunic and just as easily make him playable. But here's the deal: Why have a character on one of your stages that looks exactly like one of your playable ones? And actually is in fact the same character...

You might as well ask the same question to Brawl Donkey Kong and 75m Donkey Kong. And if you use the counter argument that they aren't the same entity's then thanks for proving my point.

But oh well, lets just drop the subject really because it goes nowhere but in circles as we have way too little information right now.

 

[SchAlternate]

It is beyond us. But by his reasoning which labels toon link as link's other, cartoony, big eyed incarnation, the link in that stage is Toon Link. The thing is he could slap him on a green tunic and just as easily make him playable. But here's the deal: Why have a character on one of your stages that looks exactly like one of your playable ones? And actually is in fact the same character...

What about DK from 750m?

EDIT: Ninja'd. Oh well.

 

[Morbi]

you might as well ask the same question to Brawl Donkey Kong and 75m Donkey Kong. And if you use the counter argument that they aren't the same entity's then thanks for proving my point.

But oh well, lets just drop the subject really because it goes nowhere really but in circles.

I forgot about that. I am going to start using that one. Humans are visual creatures though. They see that Spirit Tracks Link looks the same as Toon Link... and then they begin to draw arbitrary correlations. There is not really a rational basis behind it. I mean sure... they look the same. That doesn't really mean anything though (aside from the notion that they look similar).

 

[TheCreator]

you might as well ask the same question to Brawl Donkey Kong and 75m Donkey Kong. And if you use the counter argument that they aren't the same entity's then thanks for proving my point.

But oh well, lets just drop the subject really.

In all honesty I do remember reading something about that being a diferent Donkey Kong, might be horse$hit though. Other than that, I got nothin. He.....is that person. He is Toon Link....
They look the exact same. But toon link is wearing an outfit that he only wears in one game on that stage, which could warrant a return.

I forgot about that. I am going to start using that one. Humans are visual creatures though. They see that Spirit Tracks Link looks the same as Toon Link... and then they begin to draw arbitrary correlations. There is not really a rational basis behind it. I mean sure... they look the same. That doesn't really mean anything though (aside from the notion that they look similar).

They are the same person. Toon link is spirit tracks link. Link's cartoony incarnation.

 

[Curious Villager]

In all honesty I do remember reading something about that being a diferent Donkey Kong, might be horse$hit though. Other than that, I got nothin. He.....is that person. He is Toon Link....
They look the exact same. But toon link is wearing an outfit that he only wears in one game on that stage, which could warrant a return.

Who is the same? Spirits Tracks Link and Wind Waker Link? Nope their not. Their about as same as modern Donkey Kong is to Arcade Donkey Kong. Had it been Phantom Hourglass Link driving the SS Linebeck in a Phantom Hourglass stage in the 3DS version then yes okay. Be VERY concerned about Toon Links fate. But since Wind Waker Link =/= Spirit Tracks Link, things are just vague right now and you're better off just waiting it out really before jumping into silly conclusions until the full roster is revealed or if Sakurai comments about it.

 

[TheCreator]

Who is the same? Spirits Tracks Link and Wind Waker Link? Nope their not. Had it been Phantom Hourglass Link driving the SS Linebeck in a Phantom Hourglass stage in the 3DS version then yes okay. Be VERY concerned about Toon Links fate. But since Wind Waker Link =/= Spirit Tracks Link, things are just vague right now and you're better off just waiting it out really before jumping into silly conclusions until the full roster is revealed or if Sakurai comments about it.

I never said wind waker link [they bleeped out the word N!gga. It looked offensive I had to clarify lol]. I said Toon Link. which is cel shaded, cat eyed link. Which is present in all 3 of those games you mentioned, and that stage.
Toon Link =/= Toon Link?

 

[Morbi]

They are the same person. Toon link is spirit tracks link. Link's cartoony incarnation.

That is subjective. You aren't going to convince me to dismember rational thought and slaughter logical reasoning. I simply do not agree. They are not the same person.

Disclaimer: IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO

 

[TheCreator]

That is subjective. You aren't going to convince me to dismember rational thought and slaughter logical reasoning. I simply do not agree. They are not the same person.

Disclaimer: IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO

dude, lol toon link is toon link. any link with cat eyes and is cel shaded. What you said i'm not going to convince you to do, is exactly what you're doing by saying toon link is not ST link

not subjective whatsoever...factual

 

[SchAlternate]

Well, so much for that I guess. (Edit: Dammit, I thought this conversation was over lol)

So, which veterans, if any, do you think could swap their status as starters to unlockables and viceversa, like Ness and Captain Falcon? I think Meta Knight and Lucas could easily become unlockables, while Marth could be a starter.

 

[Morbi]

dude, lol toon link is toon link. any link with cat eyes or is cel shaded. What you said i'm not going to convince you to do, is exactly what you're doing by saying toon link is not ST link

not subjective whatsoever...factual

I forgot to mention that I view Toon Link Super Smash Brothers as Wind Waker Link. His taunt led me to that conclusion. So...
Spirit Tracks=/= Wind Waker

They are both Toon Link? Not to me. They are not both Toon Link. Sakurai chose the name Toon Link because he couldn't call him "Link" without adding a designation.

IT IS SUBJECTIVE. LOOK UP THE DEFINITION OF SUBJECTIVE AND THEN COME BACK.

 

[Curious Villager]

dude, lol toon link is toon link. any link with cat eyes or is cel shaded. What you said i'm not going to convince you to do, is exactly what you're doing by saying toon link is not ST link

not subjective whatsoever...factual

Nope, that's what the fans refer to all the Link's who share Wind Waker Link's design and that fad only started because of Brawl. Fanon =/= Canon. In fact Nintendo likes to refer to that design of Link as "Cat-Eyed Link" when dealing with more games that shares that design of Link. But they do more commonly call him "Link" when just dealing with one game.

But oh well, this subject has gotten silly now. The point is though that the stage proves nothing about Toon Link and if he will be playable again or not.

 

[Deleted member]

1. I didn't say the spells were part of her character. Read my sentence again. I said... THEY WERE PART OF HER CHARACTER FROM MELEE.

You didn't make it clear. From the way you worded it, it seemed like two separate points; that it was part of her character, and that it was part of her Melee playstyle.
But regardless, it would have been just as easy to change the aesthetics and rename the moves into something more fitting and "original" to Zelda to where she isn't using spells she didn't use from a game that the particular Zelda wasn't in.

2. New spells that she used when Ganondorf controlled her... hmm. I am going to say that she didn't have those for the same reason people don't want Skull-Kid. We don't know if they are her moves... or Ganon's. Sakurai doesn't really update the characters too much anyways. He wants to retain the play-style for all of the people who mained the characters.

Regardless of whether they were hers or Ganondorf's, she is still shown to use them in some form. Unlike the OoT spells that Link used instead of her.
That's like saying Palutena can't use any of the moves in her boss fight from KI: Uprising because she was being controlled by the Chaos Kin.

I didn't look at the game's code. I thought you were implying that Toon Sheik wasn't listed. Even so... I am deeply shocked that he would have used a Toon Sheik over Tetra. That is surprising, super unexpected. I would actually question his sanity. It would have been funny seeing Toon Sheik though.

Nope, she was. Now do you get what I'm saying?

My point was that Toon Ganondorf isn't his name. It is the same thing as (WW). It is just to specify. If he was in the game, I am fairly certain he would indeed be named Toon Ganondorf.

And "Toon Link" isn't the name for the WW Link either. Which was my point to begin with.
Toon Link is really just "Link from Wind Waker". Just like Toon Ganondorf is "Ganondorf from Wind Waker". It seems that you thought I was implying that it's a separate Ganondorf and it set you off. Well I wasn't.
(Though by technicality, it is. WW Ganondorf and TP Ganondorf may both be the same as OoT Ganondorf, but due to the timeline split, they are completely different Ganondorfs separated by alternate paths of time and do not exist within the other's timeline. They may be the same individual, and even were the same being at some point in both their timelines but they are alternate universe counterparts to each other. Same with Downfall Timeline Ganondorf. This is why branched timelines and time travel is weird.....I mean, they're the same, yet they're also different. )

If all Links were the same in Smash canon, why is Link playable if ST Link is in the background of a stage? I don't understand why Toon Link would be out... but Link wouldn't. That is my point. It isn't consistent. You would have to claim that Toon Link is different than Link. That would be antithetical to what you were trying to prove.

Why Link can be playable and a stage cameo?
Because multiple versions of characters exist within Smash canon.
And I'm not just talking about multiple playable versions.
If Link can't be both, Captain Falcon couldn't be playable in Melee and Brawl because he's driving the Blue Falcon on the F-Zero stages while he's on them.
Two of the Star Fox characters would have to be cut because if you have Fox, Falco, and Wolf on Lylat Cruise and one does his secret taunt, the other two are not only on the stage with the one that activated the taunt, but they are also in their ships communicating with non-playable SF characters.
Wario couldn't be in Brawl because he's also commenting on fighters participating in the microgames of the WarioWare stage from far away. Among those fighters can be himself.

Now, I know you're going to turn this around and say "well why can't Toon Link stay, then?"
And I'm going to reply with: I never said he couldn't.
In fact, the fact that the stage cameo Link is wearing conductor's clothes makes it easier to imagine the traditional green tunic clothed Toon Link appearing at the same time as a fighter.

 

[Morbi]

You didn't make it clear. From the way you worded it, it seemed like two separate points; that it was part of her character, and that it was part of her Melee playstyle.
But regardless, it would have been just as easy to change the aesthetics and rename the moves into something more fitting and "original" to Zelda to where she isn't using spells she didn't use from a game that the particular Zelda wasn't in.




Regardless of whether they were hers or Ganondorf's, she is still shown to use them in some form. Unlike the OoT spells that Link used instead of her.
That's like saying Palutena can't use any of the moves in her boss fight from KI: Uprising because she was being controlled by the Chaos Kin.


Nope, she was. Now do you get what I'm saying?


And "Toon Link" isn't the name for the WW Link either. Which was my point to begin with.
Toon Link is really just "Link from Wind Waker". Just like Toon Ganondorf is "Ganondorf from Wind Waker". It seems that you thought I was implying that it's a separate Ganondorf and it set you off. Well I wasn't.
(Though by technicality, it is. WW Ganondorf and TP Ganondorf may both be the same as OoT Ganondorf, but due to the timeline split, they are completely different Ganondorfs separated by alternate paths of time and do not exist within the other's timeline. They may be the same individual, and even were the same being at some point in both their timelines but they are alternate universe counterparts to each other. Same with Downfall Timeline Ganondorf. This is why branched timelines and time travel is weird.....I mean, they're the same, yet they're also different. )

Why Link can be playable and a stage cameo?
Because multiple versions of characters exist within Smash canon.
And I'm not just talking about multiple playable versions.
If Link can't be both, Captain Falcon couldn't be playable in Melee and Brawl because he's driving the Blue Falcon on the F-Zero stages while he's on them.
Two of the Star Fox characters would have to be cut because if you have Fox, Falco, and Wolf on Lylat Cruise and one does his secret taunt, the other two are not only on the stage with the one that activated the taunt, but they are also in their ships communicating with non-playable SF characters.
Wario couldn't be in Brawl because he's also commenting on fighters participating in the microgames of the WarioWare stage from far away. Among those fighters can be himself.

Now, I know you're going to turn this around and say "well why can't Toon Link stay, then?"
And I'm going to reply with: I never said he couldn't.
In fact, the fact that the stage cameo Link is wearing conductor's clothes makes it easier to imagine the traditional green tunic clothed Toon Link appearing at the same time as a fighter.

I actually got what you were saying like an hour ago. I didn't see where you were coming from at first. Secondly, arguing Smash canon is not going to get anyone anywhere. It is literally a game that disregards canon. So I am not going to go there.

 

[SchAlternate]

You didn't make it clear. From the way you worded it, it seemed like two separate points; that it was part of her character, and that it was part of her Melee playstyle.
But regardless, it would have been just as easy to change the aesthetics and rename the moves into something more fitting and "original" to Zelda to where she isn't using spells she didn't use from a game that the particular Zelda wasn't in.




Regardless of whether they were hers or Ganondorf's, she is still shown to use them in some form. Unlike the OoT spells that Link used instead of her.
That's like saying Palutena can't use any of the moves in her boss fight from KI: Uprising because she was being controlled by the Chaos Kin.


Nope, she was. Now do you get what I'm saying?


And "Toon Link" isn't the name for the WW Link either. Which was my point to begin with.
Toon Link is really just "Link from Wind Waker". Just like Toon Ganondorf is "Ganondorf from Wind Waker". It seems that you thought I was implying that it's a separate Ganondorf and it set you off. Well I wasn't.
(Though by technicality, it is. WW Ganondorf and TP Ganondorf may both be the same as OoT Ganondorf, but due to the timeline split, they are completely different Ganondorfs separated by alternate paths of time and do not exist within the other's timeline. They may be the same individual, and even were the same being at some point in both their timelines but they are alternate universe counterparts to each other. Same with Downfall Timeline Ganondorf. This is why branched timelines and time travel is weird.....I mean, they're the same, yet they're also different. )

Why Link can be playable and a stage cameo?
Because multiple versions of characters exist within Smash canon.
And I'm not just talking about multiple playable versions.
If Link can't be both, Captain Falcon couldn't be playable in Melee and Brawl because he's driving the Blue Falcon on the F-Zero stages while he's on them.
Two of the Star Fox characters would have to be cut because if you have Fox, Falco, and Wolf on Lylat Cruise and one does his secret taunt, the other two are not only on the stage with the one that activated the taunt, but they are also in their ships communicating with non-playable SF characters.
Wario couldn't be in Brawl because he's also commenting on fighters participating in the microgames of the WarioWare stage from far away. Among those fighters can be himself.

Now, I know you're going to turn this around and say "well why can't Toon Link stay, then?"
And I'm going to reply with: I never said he couldn't.
In fact, the fact that the stage cameo Link is wearing conductor's clothes makes it easier to imagine the traditional green tunic clothed Toon Link appearing at the same time as a fighter.

So this discussion was essentially pointless.

 

[Deleted member]

Your poor explanation correlates to us being blind? That is humorous. If you would have said that he uses the universal notion of the character as opposed to any given specific incarnation we wouldn't have even said anything. It is funny... the underlined portions of the post elaborate more than you did in your wall of text.

The contradictions in your post confused me. I apologize for that. Next time I will read your mind.

No, the fact I stated to read the trophies to understand what Sakurai is saying, and both of you missed the key points that were right there makes you blind.

 

[SchAlternate]

No, the fact I stated to read the trophies to understand what Sakurai is saying, and both of you missed the key points that were right there makes you blind.

Well, if I were blind, I wouldn't know how to use a keyboard. Or use a computer. Maybe you could've said "distracted", as we somehow missed that bit, yet I could SEEK for the description and READ it.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'll just drop my say on the matter.

From less hardcore Nintendo point of view, playing as a fully 3D rendered model of Donkey Kong and having a pixelized version of Donkey Kong in the background is one thing... but playing as Toon Link while having an almost exact same version of Toon Link in the background is kind of a different deal.


I'd say that would be more confusing to the casual crowd... But meh, this also gets me into a confusing area where there might already be 4 Toon Links in the battlefield, so a fifth one just standing in the background wouldn't make that much of a difference.

I don't know... it's Sakurai, lol. But I know this... Tom Nook in the background never convinced me that he would eventually be playable. And I'm sort of standing on the same grounds regarding Toon Link, but it's just a feeling, nothing else.

 

[Morbi]

No, the fact I stated to read the trophies to understand what Sakurai is saying, and both of you missed the key points that were right there makes you blind.

No. You would have to elaborate on your perspective. We can't be expected to just know what you are talking about.

 

[Deleted member]

So this discussion was essentially pointless.

No, because the point of the discussion was not about Toon Link's chances, otherwise, it would have ended after I initially said that neither side can claim anything at this point in time; it was about how the "different Link" argument doesn't apply to the case. Which turned into a debate centered around that concept.

 

[Morbi]

No, because the point of the discussion was not about Toon Link's chances, otherwise, it would have ended after I initially said that neither side can claim anything at this point in time; it was about how the "different Link" argument doesn't apply to the case. Which turned into a debate centered around that concept.

Wind Waker Link is the same as Spirit Tracks Link. We get it. They are totally different people... but Sakurai doesn't think so... so they aren't. We totally understand what you are talking about.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'll just drop my say on the matter.

From less hardcore Nintendo point of view, playing as a fully 3D rendered model of Donkey Kong and having a pixelized version of Donkey Kong in the background is one thing... but playing as Toon Link while having an almost exact same version of Toon Link in the background is kind of a different deal.

I'd say that would be more confusing to the casual crowd... But meh, this also gets me into a confusing area where there might already be 4 Toon Links in the battlefield, so a fifth one just standing in the background wouldn't make that much of a difference.

I would be quite concerned if the casual crowd can't tell the difference between.
This.

Spoiler

And this

Spoiler

Not to mention this.

Spoiler

But you at least addressed to that thankfully.

I mean come on, the design difference is so drastically different. Even in terms of graphics. I mean one looks blocky as hell and the other if he was playable would at least look decent and they both wear different clothes. :/

 

[SchAlternate]

No, because the point of the discussion was not about Toon Link's chances, otherwise, it would have ended after I initially said that neither side can claim anything at this point in time; it was about how the "different Link" argument doesn't apply to the case. Which turned into a debate centered around that concept.

Said debate wouldn't even be considered if you made that clear. That's what I was saying.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, if I were blind, I wouldn't know how to use a keyboard. Or use a computer. Maybe you could've said "distracted", as we somehow missed that bit, yet I could SEEK for the description and READ it.

You don't understand the point of an insult, do you? Insults don't have to be accurate.

No. You would have to elaborate on your perspective. We can't be expected to just know what you are talking about.

.....I shouldn't have had to elaborate.

Pretty sure it was in simple enough terms to understand.

 

[SchAlternate]

You don't understand the point of an insult, do you? Insults don't have to be accurate.

Did you even need to insult, though? I've never been aggressive to you in any way, shape or form (hopefully).

 

[Morbi]

You don't understand the point of an insult, do you? Insults don't have to be accurate.


.....I shouldn't have had to elaborate.

Pretty sure it was in simple enough terms to understand.

No. It wasn't simple. You were completely contradicting yourself. You didn't accurately explain that you were debating that a universal Link was used for Smash (which everyone already knew). It is fine if you think we are incompetent. My point is that you were not clear. You would not have had to elaborate if you said what you meant. You were very redundant.

As for the blind thing... he was obviously joking around. I don't think YOU get the point.

 

[Gune]

I think Toon Link counts as Toon link it would make a diffence if sakurai acutally made them have tools and weapons from there respective games but since he doesent I think he just counts adult link as all adult links and toon link as all toon links so him being in a stage backround IMO hinders him a bit put thats just me...

 

[Deleted member]

Said debate wouldn't even be considered if you made that clear. That's what I was saying.

Debate didn't even involve you. You literally dove into counterpoints I was making for Morbid's arguments.

Not only that, but "making something clear" doesn't prevent a debate.
A debate is when one side doesn't agree with a position and both sides go back and forth with counterpoints.

 

[Morbi]

I think Toon Link counts as Toon link it would make a diffence if sakurai acutally made them have tools and weapons from there respective games but since he doesent I think he just counts adult link as all adult links and toon link as all toon links so him being in a stage backround IMO hinders him a bit put thats just me...

His taunt is the Wind Waker. That alludes to Wind Waker Link.

Disclaimer: IMHO IMHO IMHO.

 

[DarrylTrainer]

Hey you guys! You know what I just noticed? Toon Link dyes his hair! His eyebrows are BROWN! Not BLONDE! Hahaha (I just thought that was funny because he's all heroic and stuff) (I dye my hair/not judging)

 

[SchAlternate]

Debate didn't even involve you. You literally dove into counterpoints I was making for Morbid's arguments.

Not only that, but "making something clear" doesn't prevent a debate.
A debate is when one side doesn't agree with a position and both sides go back and forth with counterpoints.

Just because I wasn't part of the debate from the start doesn't mean I can't have an opinion regarding it.

It CAN prevent a debate. This is the Internet: a single mistake can start gruesome flamewars. If you have said from the very beginning that you weren't against Toon Link making it into SSB4, MAYBE no one woulda brought up this whole discussion. If anything, the discussion might have been about Toon Link being replaced by, I dunno, Tingle.

Hey you guys! You know what I just noticed? Toon Link dyes his hair! His eyebrows are BROWN! Not BLONDE! Hahaha (I just thought that was funny because he's all heroic and stuff) (I dye my hair/not judging)

And so does Mario. And Wario. And many more I guess.

 

[Gune]

His taunt is the Wind Waker. That alludes to Wind Waker Link.

Disclaimer: IMHO IMHO IMHO.

That was the most recent Toon Link at the time right?

 

[Deleted member]

No. It wasn't simple. You were completely contradicting yourself. You didn't accurately explain that you were debating that a universal Link was used for Smash (which everyone already knew). It is fine if you think we are incompetent. My point is that you were not clear. You would not have had to elaborate if you said what you meant. You were very redundant.

As for the blind thing... he was obviously joking around. I don't think YOU get the point.

Pretty sure when I state that the all Links are the same within Smash canon and that "Toon Link" is stated to be an alternate incarnation, that means I'm referring to the concept that Smash uses a universal Link.
If anything, what I said is the elaboration for the concept, as it seems unlikely people would get what "Smash uses a universal Link" means without an explanation.
I've shown people outside these boards my initial post to show a breakthrough I've had in regards to Smash, and they understood what I was saying without problem.

I don't think either of you are incompetent. Or at least not yet. Please don't prove me otherwise.