Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Morbi]

ok not in every zelda game but everybody now her plus she is a badass :3

I agree, I am a big Impa supporter. I mean you don't need to necessarily be in every game to have a chance. In my honest opinion, she would be a great replacement for Sheik. I like Sheik more, but I would prefer Impa. It would give us something fresh while maintaining the play-style and vibe.

 

[DeathKidZ100]

I agree, I am a big Impa supporter. I mean you don't need to necessarily be in every game to have a chance. In my honest opinion, she would be a great replacement for Sheik. I like Sheik more, but I would prefer Impa. It would give us something fresh while maintaining the play-style and vibe.

 

[DeathKidZ100]

I agree, I am a big Impa supporter. I mean you don't need to necessarily be in every game to have a chance. In my honest opinion, she would be a great replacement for Sheik. I like Sheik more, but I would prefer Impa. It would give us something fresh while maintaining the play-style and vibe.

 

[DeathKidZ100]

he's right guys. check her out

total badass
she kind of looks like my Grandma lol

she still a badass

 

[TheCreator]

• why drop tingle his really popular in japan
• if dixie kong & diddy kong were separate they will just play the same way
• toon link not return ssb4
• ridley would be a clone of charizard
• impa has been in every zelda game and a big part in skyword sword
• you are right about marth i think he not going nowhere lol
• wolf was not really plan to be in ssbb in the first place

1. Don't drop Tingle.
2. Leave them together.
3. I think so too, but we can't prove it yet. Seems obvious because he's on the stage, right? but no people here think he will return and I kindof get their point.
4. Nah, he has tons of potential to be different.
5. Hasn't been in every Zelda game and doesn't have a really important part in SS, could have been a different character with her role.
6. Yeah Marth stays.
7. He was. But Sonic wasn't, and you didn't cut him.

Overall dude, I really like your roster. Just replace Impa with Toon or Classic Link, Zoroark with Lucario, put Wolf back, put Marth back, Replace paper mario with Bowser Jr., or not, and It's pretty much EXACTLY what I would say.

Just don't know if I'd have Isaac, haven't seen enough going for him.

 

[3Bismyname]

she still a badass

u are right my grandma is pretty BA. now i have nothing against Impa personally. but i dont see her likely in the slightest

 

[Morbi]

1. Don't drop Tingle.
2. Leave them together.
3. I think so too, but we can't prove it yet. Seems obvious because he's on the stage, right? but no people here think he will return and I kindof get their point.
4. Nah, he has tons of potential to be different.
5. Hasn't been in every Zelda game and doesn't have a really important part in SS, could have been a different character with her role.
6. Yeah Marth stays.
7. He was. But Sonic wasn't, and you didn't cut him.

Overall dude, I really like your roster. Just replace Impa with Toon or Classic Link, Zoroark with Lucario, put Wolf back, put Marth back, Replace paper mario with Bowser Jr., or not, and It's pretty much EXACTLY what I would say.

Just don't know if I'd have Isaac, haven't seen enough going for him.

3. The stage thing doesn't really make much sense. Toon Link is a different Link. I mean... that is like saying a second Link doesn't make since because we already have 1 Link. That would make Young Link and Toon Link impossible in the first place.

5. Impa's role was pretty important in SS. I mean obviously it wasn't the MOST important. You can't say that see didn't play a big part though.

6. Cut Marth for Lucina.

 

[TheCreator]

u are right my grandma is pretty BA. now i have nothing against Impa personally. but i dont see her likely in the slightest

Yeah same here. I give her like a .2% in liklihood and the same in want.
A 100% in apathy though.

 

[Curious Villager]

he's right guys. check her out

total badass
she kind of looks like my Grandma lol

Tsk. You think that is Impa as her most bad ass? You've clearly never met Skyward Sword Impa. Just look at her. JUST LOOK AT HER!!!

[collapse=Skyward Sword Impa and all her awesome glory]

[/collapse]

Utter Badass!

 

[3Bismyname]

Tsk. You think that is Impa as her most bad ***? You've clearly never met Skyward Sword Impa. Just look at her. JUST LOOK AT HER!!!

[collapse=Skyward Sword Impa and all her awesome glory]

[/collapse]

Utter Badass!

ok seriously am i like Sheikah or something. because both of these Impas look like my Grandma and my Great Gram. lol

 

[Morbi]

Yeah same here. I give her like a .2% in liklihood and the same in want.
A 100% in apathy though.

Really? A .2% is a really extreme guess. I mean I want her... but I am not saying it is a 90% chance or anything crazy like that. Extreme predictions are usually plagued by bias and mean nothing.

 

[Curious Villager]

ok seriously am i like Sheikah or something. because both of these Impas look like my Grandma and my Great Gram. lol

You might as well be. Do you look like Ocarina of Time Impa?

 

[Morbi]

You might as well be. Do you look like Ocarina of Time Impa?

Dem triangles!

 

[SchAlternate]

• why drop tingle his really popular in japan
• if dixie kong & diddy kong were separate they will just play the same way
• toon link not return ssb4
• ridley would be a clone of charizard
• impa has been in every zelda game and a big part in skyword sword
• you are right about marth i think he not going nowhere lol
• wolf was not really plan to be in ssbb in the first place

• Eh, it could go either way. I don't have anything against him, nor do I support him.
• Well, I wouldn't mind a Zelda/Sheik or Ice Climbers thing going on with Diddy and Dixie. I doubt that'd affect gameplay by much aside from the removal of the Banana Peel ability.
• He's more likely than what you'd think he is. And the Link in that stage is a different link from Wind Waker.
• What? How? Why!? Because he's a dragon? Look at Link and Marth! They are swordsmen, so they are clones, right? No! They already have clones, anyway!
• No she hasn't, and just because of Skyward Sword doesn't mean she'll get in. Maybe Sheik could base her appearance on Impa, but nothing else.
• I still think Marth should be a starter, though!
• Yes he was. Plain and simple.

Other than that, not too bad, I guess. I like that you included Paper Mario in there.

 

[DeathKidZ100]

roster 2.5

 

[Curious Villager]

Dem triangles!

Nothing wrong with Ocarina of Time Impa, she deals with dead things and finishes them off just before breakfast. Utter bad ass.

 

[Reznor]

View attachment 1562roster 2.5

why should Zoroark be in smash over Lucario or a 6th gen pokemon

5th gen is getting skipped like 3rd gen did guys

 

[Morbi]

View attachment 1562roster 2.5

I don't know about cutting Ike and putting Chrom in. That seems silly. I mean Ike has a very different move-set. I think Sakurai is going to cut clones like Dr. Mario and Pichu first. Ike is by no means a clone. I don't really like Red on the roster. I also think he will be cut (because he is essentially 3.5 characters). I like the roster after that though.

 

[SchAlternate]

View attachment 1562roster 2.5

• I said you could keep Paper Mario! Why did you just removed him!?
• Marth is in there... at the cost of Ike? How come?

...Y'know, I'll be honest, the only thing we might see from Awakening might be the redesign of the Lords.

And not much else to say.

 

[Deleted member]

3. The stage thing doesn't really make much sense. Toon Link is a different Link.

The "different Link" argument doesn't hold water for this reason:
There is only one "Link" in Smash canon.

You heard me; in Brawl, Link and Toon Link are the same being despite being different Links from TP and WW.

It’s Link’s other incarnation—Toon Link. He has a slightly comical expression and big, catlike eyes.

Link as he appeared in The Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass, with big eyes and an expressive face. He lived peacefully on Outset Island until a bird captured his little sister, and he came to her rescue. In The Wind Waker, he had to crawl, press up to walls, and the like. His green clothes were worn on his 12th birthday and are the lucky outfit of the hero of legend.

This has me realize that this is probably why Toon Link was deliberately designed as a clone, was a low-priority character, didn't appear in the SSE, why there is any notion of "Toon Sheik" in Brawl's data, and why TP Zelda can even use OoT spells and become Sheik.
To Sakurai, all the Links and Zeldas are the same.

With the Stickers labeling each individual Link and Zelda as simply "Link" or "Zelda" (including stickers of the Toon Link and Toon Zelda), the fact regular Link and Zelda are stated to be from The Legend of Zelda rather than The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, the fact that the trophies for the Wind Waker versions of Zelda and Ganondorf are not "Toon Zelda" or "Toon Ganondorf", but "Zelda (Wind Waker)", and Ganondorf (Wind Waker)", and Link's and Zelda's trophies refer to them as recurring individuals rather than a specific Link or Zelda, this supports this idea.

Now, does this mean Toon Link is gone? That remains to be seen.
However, the "different Link" argument doesn't hold; in Smash, the ST Link from the stage and Toon Link are the same person. And they are also the same person as the other playable Link that we just know as "Link".

With that knowledge, neither side can really claim one way or the other what Toon Link's fate is.
The stage isn't necessarily a disconfirmation since that Link's not wearing the traditional green tunic, meaning Toon Link could still show up as a character in green tunic.
At the same time, it could be a disconfirmation as the stage could just as easily be a method for Sakurai to retire the chibi-styled Link from the role of a playable character while still keeping it around somehow.
But we don't really know, and we won't until sometime next year.

 

[Reznor]

I don't know about cutting Ike and putting Chrom in. That seems silly. I mean Ike has a very different move-set. I think Sakurai is going to cut clones like Dr. Mario and Pichu first. Ike is by no means a clone. I don't really like Red on the roster. I also think he will be cut (because he is essentially 3.5 characters). I like the roster after that though.

well its kinda obvious that Chrom is getting in (or some new FE character) people are just assuming we are only getting 2 FE so Ike would be replaced by Chrom

I think we might have 3 FE reps because FE has been getting really popular in recent years

 

[TheCreator]

3. The stage thing doesn't really make much sense. Toon Link is a different Link. I mean... that is like saying a second Link doesn't make since because we already have 1 Link. That would make Young Link and Toon Link impossible in the first place.

5. Impa's role was pretty important in SS. I mean obviously it wasn't the MOST important. You can't say that see didn't play a big part though.

6. Cut Marth for Lucina.

Ok...I'm gonna say what I always say.....Spirit tracks was released after Brawl. That is why everybody who says "NUH UH HE'S DIFFERENT IT SAYS SO RITE HERE SEE" Holds no water with that argument. And of course he is a different Link, the link in every single game is different unless clarified. Like MM and OOT link, And the WW and PH link. Spirit tracks link is indeed different. But here's the deal: They are the same. The term Toon Link is a general term for a Link in that branch of the LoZ Timeline, with that appearance. If Spirit Tracks had been out it would be listed. Look at it like this: If we had gotten classic link intstead, and then for SSB4 he appeared on a stage, and let's say he was riding Moosh on the stage, He's still Classic Link. he looks the exact same as every other version of classic link. Just because "That is OOS and OOA link, the classic link from brawl's trophy specifically read link from Link's Awakening and ALTTP" doesn't mean that they aren't the exact same incarnation of link. I mean for crying out loud they still look the exact same, I doubt sakurai would have a stage with an exact duplicate of one of his characters. But if we had gotten Classic link in Brawl, his trophy wouldnt say that anyway. It would list him in all the games that Classic link appeared in. Or likely just say the failure timeline.


This is just the reason why I think Toon Link MAY not return, you guys have done a pretty good job of convincing me he may stay though. At first I thought he was gone for sure, but now not so much..

 

[SchAlternate]

The "different Link" argument doesn't hold water for this reason:
There is only one "Link" in Smash canon.

You heard me; in Brawl, Link and Toon Link are the same being despite being different Links from TP and WW.

This has me realize that this is probably why Toon Link was deliberately designed as a clone, was a low-priority character, didn't appear in the SSE, why there is any notion of "Toon Sheik" in Brawl's data, and why TP Zelda can even use OoT spells and become Sheik.
To Sakurai, all the Links and Zeldas are the same.

Or he simply updated the appearance of Link and Zelda to match that of TP.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh goody the Toon Link argument again, like Golden said, there is no way to truly determine what Toon Link's fate is, at least not at this point of time. Either he stays or either he's gone. Whatever the reason is wont be clear unless Sakurai states so himself. The only reason we can truly determine of why he would be gone is if he got replaced by Classic Link (or any child Link for that matter).

If Toon Link is gone but no explanation or replacement is given then we can't fully determine what exactly happened. The most possible reason of why he would be cut then is due to time constraints as Sakurai himself stated that he doesn't have the time to bring everyone back and that nobody has been cut so far. So in the end, it wouldn't really be because of a stupid stage that is only available in one out of the two games. It would be due to a lack of time as Toon Link would likely be a last priority character again like he was in Brawl and Young Link was in Melee.

 

[Morbi]

The "different Link" argument doesn't hold water for this reason:
There is only one "Link" in Smash canon.

You heard me; in Brawl, Link and Toon Link are the same being despite being different Links from TP and WW.





This has me realize that this is probably why Toon Link was deliberately designed as a clone, was a low-priority character, didn't appear in the SSE, why there is any notion of "Toon Sheik" in Brawl's data, and why TP Zelda can even use OoT spells and become Sheik.
To Sakurai, all the Links and Zeldas are the same.

With the Stickers labeling each individual Link and Zelda as simply "Link" or "Zelda" (including stickers of the Toon Link and Toon Zelda), the fact regular Link and Zelda are stated to be from The Legend of Zelda rather than The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, the fact that the trophies for the Wind Waker versions of Zelda and Ganondorf are not "Toon Zelda" or "Toon Ganondorf", but "Zelda (Wind Waker)", and Ganondorf (Wind Waker)", and Link's and Zelda's trophies refer to them as recurring individuals rather than a specific Link or Zelda, this supports this idea.

Now, does this mean Toon Link is gone? That remains to be seen.
However, the "different Link" argument doesn't hold; in Smash, the ST Link from the stage and Toon Link are the same person. And they are also the same person as the other playable Link that we just know as "Link".

With that knowledge, neither side can really claim one way or the other what Toon Link's fate is.

It is rational to assume that the Links are the same... because Sakurai calls them all by name? That is... not logical at all.

1. Zelda can use OoT spells because it is part of her character and play-style ported over from Melee. She didn't offer anything new in TP, so she got a physical redesign. I mean they didn't update Fox or anything. They could have... but they didn't. It is part of her play-style now.
2. Toon Sheik is Tetra. So that is why she isn't mentioned in the code. Either that, or Toon Zelda was going to be a stand-alone character with a new move-set.
3. He labels them as Link (WW) or Link (TP) because the characters name is Link. That is a very simple premise to grasp. He is simply calling them by name. Ganondorf is not Toon Ganondorf in WW. He is Ganondorf. The (WW) is just a specification.

The different Link argument does hold. THEY ARE DIFFERENT LINKS! Literally. They are literally different Links. Can any side claim to know Toon Link's fate? No.

 

[Deleted member]

Or he simply updated the appearance of Link and Zelda to match that of TP.

Read the trophies for Link and Zelda again.

...Now tell me he isn't saying that the Links and Zeldas are just one being (for both).

 

[DeathKidZ100]

• I said you could keep Paper Mario! Why did you just removed him!?
• Marth is in there... at the cost of Ike? How come?

...Y'know, I'll be honest, the only thing we might see from Awakening might be the redesign of the Lords.


And not much else to say.

• I think toad has a way more better chance be in ssb4
• plus i think thier going to be paper mario stage exclusive to the 3ds
• tell you the truth i dont even know what FE Characters be select for ssb4

 

[TheCreator]

DeathKidz nooooooo not toad man! I'd want the WAAAAA before toad!! You're going backwards here, Liked it better before. Fire emblem roster: Marth, Ike, Chrom. take out Impa for Toon or Classic link, and replace Zoroark with lucario, then 10/10 would never put down

 

[DeathKidZ100]

DeathKidz nooooooo not toad man! I'd want the WAAAAA before toad!! You're going backwards here, Liked it better before. Fire emblem roster: Marth, Ike, Chrom. take out Impa for Toon or Classic link, and replace Zoroark with lucario, then 10/10 would never put down

lol

 

[Morbi]

DeathKidz nooooooo not toad man! I'd want the WAAAAA before toad!! You're going backwards here, Liked it better before. Fire emblem roster: Marth, Ike, Chrom. take out Impa for Toon or Classic link, and replace Zoroark with lucario, then 10/10 would never put down

Apparently Toad is super popular in Japan. I think he is one of the original Mario characters. I don't know. I think he has better chances than we think (I don't want him though). I agree with you.

 

[DeathKidZ100]

DeathKidz nooooooo not toad man! I'd want the WAAAAA before toad!! You're going backwards here, Liked it better before. Fire emblem roster: Marth, Ike, Chrom. take out Impa for Toon or Classic link, and replace Zoroark with lucario, then 10/10 would never put down

you have to give me a strong reason why young link should be in.

 

[SchAlternate]

Read the trophies for Link and Zelda again.

...Now tell me he isn't saying that the Links and Zeldas are just one being (for both).

LINK
"A young man who emerged to rescue Hyrule from peril. He's the bearer of the Triforce of Courage who fights to keep Ganondorf from conquering the world. His green outfit is a constant throughout the series. He's a skilled swordsman, horseman, and archer. He's also proficient with bombs and boomerangs."

ZELDA
"The princess of Hyrule. In other games, her role changes between titles. In Ocarina of Time, she was hunted by the would-be conqueror, Ganondorf. She deceived him, however, by adopting the persona of Sheik. In Twilight Princess, she surrendered to Zant and was held as his prisoner."

... So what? It's just the basic information of both characters. I kinda sorta see what you're going for, but not quite.

 

[TheCreator]

Oh and Golden, I got EXACTLY what you were saying. It's exactly what I said but......said better

@DeathKidZ: I really don't know if he will. It's just, I'm pretty sure Impa won't lol

@SchAlternate He's trying to say Sakurai sees the characters of 'Link' and 'Zelda' as universal characters. Essentially he sees the idea of the character, not the specific one of any game

 

[DeathKidZ100]

Apparently Toad is super popular in Japan. I think he is one of the original Mario characters. I don't know. I think he has better chances than we think (I don't want him though). I agree with you.

true, i like paper mario over toad but toad been in SUPER MARIO BROS WII & SUPER MARIO BROS WIIU games as a playable character and the upcoming gaming SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD

 

[DeathKidZ100]

TOAD AS A PLAYABLE CHARACTERS IN SM3DW

 

[Morbi]

true, i like paper mario over toad but toad been in SUPER MARIO BROS WII & SUPER MARIO BROS WIIU games as a playable character and the upcoming gaming SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD

Yes. I had almost forgotten. I mean Toads chances are looking pretty good. Waluigi or Bowser Jr. do not seem too likely when confronted with the notion that Toad is super popular. As you mentioned, he has been playable in a few games. So I think he would be pretty cool. Peach needs a new B.

LINK
"A young man who emerged to rescue Hyrule from peril. He's the bearer of the Triforce of Courage who fights to keep Ganondorf from conquering the world. His green outfit is a constant throughout the series. He's a skilled swordsman, horseman, and archer. He's also proficient with bombs and boomerangs."

ZELDA
"The princess of Hyrule. In other games, her role changes between titles. In Ocarina of Time, she was hunted by the would-be conqueror, Ganondorf. She deceived him, however, by adopting the persona of Sheik. In Twilight Princess, she surrendered to Zant and was held as his prisoner."

... So what? It's just the basic information of both characters. I kinda sorta see what you're going for, but not quite.

This.

 

[TheCreator]

true, i like paper mario over toad but toad been in SUPER MARIO BROS WII & SUPER MARIO BROS WIIU games as a playable character and the upcoming gaming SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD

I see Bowser Jr. or paper Mario before Toad. But hey, how should I know? lol

 

[Deleted member]

It is rational to assume that the Links are the same... because Sakurai calls them all by name? That is... not logical at all.

You missed the point entirely.
Sakurai literally refers to Link as an individual, and all the collective Links as the Link.

This is of course, in Smash canon, not Zelda canon.

1. Zelda can use OoT spells because it is part of her character and play-style ported over from Melee. She didn't offer anything new in TP, so she got a physical redesign. I mean they didn't update Fox or anything. They could have... but they didn't. It is part of her play-style now.

1. Those OoT spells? Not part of her character. She never used them. Link did.
2. She had a rapier and was shown with magic skills when Ganondorf controlled her. That was definitely something new for her to use that isn't taking spells she never used.

2. Toon Sheik is Tetra. So that is why she isn't mentioned in the code. Either that, or Toon Zelda was going to be a stand-alone character with a new move-set.

You have no proof of this whatsoever.
It stands to reason that if Sakurai meant Tetra, the filename would be "tetra" and NOT "toon_sheik". No other character's data has such a deceptive name. Closest is Olimar, who's filename is "pikmin", but given that he's officially "Pikmin & Olimar", having "pikmin" as the filename makes sense.
And if Toon Zelda was meant to be a stand alone, there would be no file for "toon_sheik" in the first place.
And finally, Toon Link was purposely a clone; why would Toon Zelda have a non-cloned moveset?

3. He labels them as Link (WW) or Link (TP) because the characters name is Link. That is a very simple premise to grasp. He is simply calling them by name. Ganondorf is not Toon Ganondorf in WW. He is Ganondorf. The (WW) is just a specification.

"Toon" is what is used to give Link's WW incarnation a moniker that distinguishes from the other "Link" in Brawl. "Toon" refers to WW's carTOONish proportions. So yes, if Ganondorf as he appeared in Wind Waker was in Brawl alongside the TP Ganondorf, it would be "Toon Ganondorf".

The different Link argument does hold. THEY ARE DIFFERENT LINKS! Literally. They are literally different Links. Can any side claim to know Toon Link's fate? No.

It doesn't hold, because it doesn't apply to Smash. It doesn't matter if within the Zelda timeline, they are separate individuals, they are one and the same within Smash.

 

[DeathKidZ100]

ROSTER 3.0

 

[Curious Villager]

It would be great if we knew how popular Toon Link is currently in Japan compared to, say, Classic Link or Young Link. As Chronobound told us that Toon Link was one of Japans most requested characters for Brawl. If he is still very popular there then I would suppose this would bode well for him and that he wouldn't necessarily be replaced by another child Link. but I guess you never know....

Besides, if Sakurai didn't redesign the Twilight Princess Link into the more "recent" Skyward Sword or Ocarina of Time 3D Link and if he's going to do the same for that with Zelda, Sheik and Ganondorf. What's the point then of replacing Toon Link with Classic or Young Link really? :/