Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[3Bismyname]

Last I checked, Wolf was actually more expected and requested in the long run.
The 'shock' was from the very loud Krystal fanbase.

thats pretty much how i was. but mostly cause i hadnt played Adventures at that time so i had no idea who Krystal was lol.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I consider Ness/Lucas to be clones. Lucas just has altered moves that are buffed. For examble his side b freeze move is more powerful than Ness. His FS is a little stronger. His stick is more powerful than the bat (not sure why) and his up smash is more powerful than the up yo-yo smash of Ness.

Uh...

Side B is PK Fire. Both have that.

Lucas is lower tier than Ness. Not buffed.

PK Flash is HELLA powerful. PK Freeze ain't that good.

The bat does more damage, the stick is quicker.

FS is pretty much the same power, they just go at different angles.

DO YOU EVEN LUCAS?

 

[volbound1700]

Uh...

Side B is PK Fire. Both have that.

Lucas is lower tier than Ness. Not buffed.

PK Flash is HELLA powerful. PK Freeze ain't that good.

The bat does more damage, the stick is quicker.

FS is pretty much the same power, they just go at different angles.

DO YOU EVEN LUCAS?

My friend plays Lucas as his main and he is very hard to stop with items. I honestly do not think many people learned how to play Lucas right because I don't see good strategies online. My friends and even I look better with him. His moves are more powerful and quicker than Ness. The angle of Lucas' FS helps him. Now my friend's Lucas wouldn't be as good without the Smashball. His strategy is camping and getting Smashballs as well as getting you in the air so he can up Smash you.

Still there moves are mostly the same. I consider them clones.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Alright, here's a new roster, I feel really satisfied of how it turned out:

 

[Swamp Sensei]

My friend plays Lucas as his main and he is very hard to stop with items. I honestly do not think many people learned how to play Lucas right because I don't see good strategies online. My friends and even I look better with him. His moves are more powerful and quicker than Ness. The angle of Lucas' FS helps him. Now my friend's Lucas wouldn't be as good without the Smashball. His strategy is camping and getting Smashballs as well as getting you in the air so he can up Smash you.

What do you determine a good strategy? There are plenty in the Lucas forum.

Depends on the move really. Up smash is more powerful but slower but his forward smash is weaker and faster.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Pitfalls + Lucas= Deadly duo I think so.

 

[Starbound]

We're not going to be seeing 6 third party characters. >_>

What would make Alph and Tom Nook different from Olimar and Villager, respectively? Characters are supposed to be bringing something new to the table this time.

55 characters + 4 transformations is way too much.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Alph would use Blue, Red, Yellow, Flying, and Rock Pikmin, while also being different in his normal, smash, and aerial attacks. The Special moves would stay the same (Maybe except Pikmin Chain).
Tom Nook would use furniture to attack opponents, use his tail to fly, normal attacks with his broom, enough to make him different from the Villager.

 

[Smashiny]

I have played Ness and Lucas and although their moves have different power, speeds, etc. They are still very similar

Ness up b is a yo-yo while Lucas does the flare magic. Both hit the character upward but Lucas is more powerful.

I would say they are at least semi-clones.

The Star Fox characters are a little more different. Falco moves a lot different than his clone-mode in Melee but they do have some similarities. They are less of clones than Ness or Lucas but I can see how people would say they play similar.

Well... Lucas and Ness are at least as different to each other as the Star Fox characters, ther normal B is completely different, Lucas's side-B is a knockback while ness's makes them get "stuck" in the fire, Ness's up B only hits once... Only their down B is the same...
Ness and Luke are definitely not more clones of each other than the Star Fox Chars...

 

[mimgrim]

Your missing the point.

I know these aren't clones, we all know that. I'm not arguing that sakurai gave us clones. He didn't. but he certainly gave us characters out of a "who could be a clone" barrel of choices for reps and then made them not clones.

Think about it, your developing Brawl and you don't have those characters (wolf lucas etc..) in smash yet and you sit down to choose the roster sakurai PICKED a lot of SIMILAR characters to get spots. he TENDS to do this.

Are you ASSUMING I'm saying Alph and Nook would be clones or something? No. they wouldn't. They'd be like Wolf and Lucas to Ness and Fox... technically play different but aesthetically... it's another pikmin using spaceman and another animal crossing items using guy! If the rosters 55-60 spots, sure why not. BUT If we end up with 40-45 spots, these characters should NOT be the choices to fill those spots. Thats what happened with Brawl.

Personally, and what I seem to see everyone else asking for, is DIVERSITY in the roster. This was the same thing in Brawl, it's why we were all shocked we got Wolf with a Landmaster over Krystal, a female staff weilder rep, and not another guy with a gun, a shield, a dash move etc... yes he PLAYS different but he also is PAINFULLY similar to 2 other characters on a very tight roster. we could have had ridley OR K Rool OR Ashley OR... point is, Sakurai picks characters that we basically already have and gives them a spot and instead of DEFENDING them as not clones, we need to recognize how they take up space and shouldn't be on there... not that it will change anything but I just don't like being O.K. with "could-a-been" clones because they "play" different. So would ANY other character! what we get is the BARE minimum of playing different with these kind of choices.

So just be prepared to brace for Alph, Nook, Dixie, Toon Zelda etc... yeah they'll play different but will we be very happy with that roster? probably not.

You statement on Wolf is false. Wolf was one of the most wanted character since 64 and has still been wanted mroe then when Krystal when she was created. Very few where in fact dissapointed in Wolf and was beyong the bare minimum of differences between him and Fox. All of his specials worked different/had different usage from Fox's special and/or looked different. You over exagerating big time on Wolf which is totally false. Lucas is almost like Wolf in this regard, his Specials work differently and have different properties. Asetitcs should NOT matter when calling something a clone. And you want to know the difference between Wolf and Lucas to someone like Alph or Nook? Alph and Nook have much less options to them to where it would actually be tougher to not make them clones then anything whereas Wolf and Lucas actually had the potential to be different. Heck Wolf is more like Marth and Fox in play styles. -_-

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Alph would use Blue, Red, Yellow, Flying, and Rock Pikmin, while also being different in his normal, smash, and aerial attacks. The Special moves would stay the same (Maybe except Pikmin Chain).
Tom Nook would use furniture to attack opponents, use his tail to fly, normal attacks with his broom, enough to make him different from the Villager.

Okay, let me try to explain this the best way I can.

Villager's move set consists solely of items from the game, that makes him the ONLY necessary AC rep needed. You not only gave Tom Nook stuff he doesn't do (flying) ,but stuff that's just a bad and unnecessary move set. Why do we need a character that uses furniture? Why do we need another AC rep when we have the main character that already represents all of Animal Crossing in terms of who he is and what he does. If actual CHARACTERS in AC were going to be playable, we would NOT have the Avatar as a playable character. That makes no sense. And why is the furniture in Animal Crossing so important anyway??? It was either Villager or Tom Nook, they chose Villager. There is literally not a single solitary reason to have another Animal Crossing rep.

You have SO many unnecessary WASTES of reps.

Also explaining the pointlessness of another Pikmin captain. Why split Pikmin between the two instead of just giving them all to Olimar. I use to have Louie a LONG time ago (even made him a decent clone) but, I finally realized it's just pointless. It's a complete WASTE of a slot on a roster that is ALREADY facing a tight limit situation. People would be happy with just all the Pikmin in one captain. If people wanted Alph that badly, a blue Olimar is the next best thing. And Dark Pit fans will be 100% okay with the comprimise of having Dark Pit as a costume. Why? Because there is almost literally NO difference. His attitude is the ONLY thing that separates him from Pit. If making use of the other Uprising weapons is so important than give them to Palutena. Heck, Pit probably already has most of them in his Smash Attacks and Air attacks!

And as if 5 3rd Parties isn't too much, how about SIX! I'm pretty sure I told you a MILLION times that Platinum Games is sick of people requesting their characters SPECIFICALLY Bayonetta. And we've ALL told you a million times that 3rd Parties only get in if they have been around long enough and are considered legends to the gaming world. The only NEW 3rd party rep I believe EVER had a chance of getting in was Banjo & Kazooie in Melee because of the INSANE amount of relation between Nintendo & Rare. But, by the time Brawl came around they were bought out.

Dark Pit is most likely the WORST idea for a Smash Brothers character that's actually been a REAL idea for a Smash Character.

Well... Lucas and Ness are at least as different to each other as the Star Fox characters, ther normal B is completely different, Lucas's side-B is a knockback while ness's makes them get "stuck" in the fire, Ness's up B only hits once... Only their down B is the same...
Ness and Luke are definitely not more clones of each other than the Star Fox Chars...

Actually Lucas's PSI Magnet both faces in front of him AND attacks people while Ness's does not.

 

[Gune]

Why are we fighting over who's clones are not? Isnt today a happy day? You know....Olimar revealed?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Furniture was your customization in Animal Crossing, the game is not only about catching fish and digging for Gyroids.
So the Villager hasn't represented everything in Animal Crossing in Smash.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Furniture was your customization in Animal Crossing, the game is not only about catching fish and digging for Gyroids.
So the Villager hasn't represented everything in Animal Crossing in Smash.

Well, do remember we haven't seen everything the Villager can do yet. We don't have a detailed special moveset or a final Smash.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Furniture was your customization in Animal Crossing, the game is not only about catching fish and digging for Gyroids.
So the Villager hasn't represented everything in Animal Crossing in Smash.

If the furniture was either important or a good idea for a move, Villager would already have it. But, it's not so that's not an excuse for Tom Nook.

 

[Curious Villager]

Why are we fighting over who's clones are not? Isnt today a happy day? You know....Olimar revealed?

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

And oh, you joined SmashBoards on my birthday... Not that it matters much but still.

 

[Silverjay323]

I have played Ness and Lucas and although their moves have different power, speeds, etc. They are still very similar

Ness up b is a yo-yo while Lucas does the flare magic. Both hit the character upward but Lucas is more powerful.

I would say they are at least semi-clones.

The Star Fox characters are a little more different. Falco moves a lot different than his clone-mode in Melee but they do have some similarities. They are less of clones than Ness or Lucas but I can see how people would say they play similar.

It's an Up-smash, not their up-b, so no wonder it hits the character, ya know, UPWARDS, and going by that logic, all the characters would be clones then.

 

[3Bismyname]

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

And oh, you joined SmashBoards on my birthday... Not that it matters much but still.

dude we have the same birthday

 

[BluePikmin11]

U-Spec: Balloon Jump.
D-Spec: Collect.
S-Spec: Bowling Ball.
N-Spec: Grow a Tree.
In a nutshell this could be Villager's Special Moveset.

 

[Curious Villager]

dude we have the same birthday

ORLY?

That's awesome!

 

[mimgrim]

For some reason I have the feeling collect isn't mapped to buttons and is done automatically..... o-O

 

[BluePikmin11]

For some reason I have the feeling collect isn't mapped to buttons and is done automatically..... o-O

That would be way too OP, I think it's a D-Spec, normally these kinds of counter-attacks are D-Specs or S-Spec, but I'm pretty sure Collect is a D-Spec.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I have no idea what U, D, S, or N spec are...

 

[BluePikmin11]

If the furniture was either important or a good idea for a move, Villager would already have it. But, it's not so that's not an excuse for Tom Nook.

Then customization in the series isn't important?

 

[Starbound]

If it's neutral special and Kirby can copy it, that'd be pretty awesome.

 

[mimgrim]

That would be way too OP, I think it's a D-Spec, normally these kinds of counter-attacks are D-Specs or S-Spec, but I'm pretty sure Collect is a D-Spec.

It's jsut the way Sakurai worded it in the video of his when he was showing off villager and made it sound like we would collect any projectile done at him automaticall when he has a free space. Bu maybe it's jsut me. :<

 

[Silverjay323]

U-Spec: Balloon Jump.
D-Spec: Collect.
S-Spec: Bowling Ball.
N-Spec: Grow a Tree.
In a nutshell this could be Villager's Special Moveset.

I have a feeling the bowling ball is his F-tilt

 

[8-peacock-8]

Why are we fighting over who's clones are not? Isnt today a happy day? You know....Olimar revealed?

Because this is the internet. Happiness and fun aren't allowed.

 

[papagenos]

You statement on Wolf is false. Wolf was one of the most wanted character since 64 and has still been wanted mroe then when Krystal when she was created. Very few where in fact dissapointed in Wolf and was beyong the bare minimum of differences between him and Fox. All of his specials worked different/had different usage from Fox's special and/or looked different. You over exagerating big time on Wolf which is totally false. Lucas is almost like Wolf in this regard, his Specials work differently and have different properties. Asetitcs should NOT matter when calling something a clone. And you want to know the difference between Wolf and Lucas to someone like Alph or Nook? Alph and Nook have much less options to them to where it would actually be tougher to not make them clones then anything whereas Wolf and Lucas actually had the potential to be different. Heck Wolf is more like Marth and Fox in play styles. -_-

Your still missing my point, Im NOT saying they are clones. At all. I'm not saying that. This has nothing to do with the terrible label of "clone" being cast on a character you like or something. All I am saying is that AESTHETICALLY brawl had a lot of terrible choices for spots. It felt like many characters were on a clone waiting list and got in only to be made into non-clone characters. These characters don't create a DIVERSE roster and it bugs me and I fear it may happen again here and then in a few years I'll be arguing about Alph and Tom Nook and Dixie not being diverse and some one will be defending them because of how they "play different". Fine if everyones cool with that, but I'd rather have a diverse roster.


The past is the past and I dont feel like dwelling but regardless of Wolfs popularity in smash as a character these days, I remember Brawl roster predictions, he was not a common choice at all. Most people didn't think star fox was getting a new rep and if they were it was Krystal.

The roster we should have gotten would have looked more like this:

With a few changes we have a much more diverse and satisfying roster. I cut R.O.B. for Mac as a better retro rep (this was a roster I made not for this post but for fun on my own as a "better brawl roster" just to see what it could have looked like...but it makes my point here either way) but even change that back and it's still way more diverse cutting a few of those "almost" clones for better choices. Take any roster thats been predicted this time around cut 3-4 of those interesting likely newcomers and instead add nook,alph,dixie or some other "almost clones" and thats the difference between this^ and the brawl roster we got and then tell me it's good that sakurai chooses characters that are similar to one another and "could be clones". But it's cool cause they "play" different so that makes them good choices. No it doesn't.

 

[mimgrim]

I have no idea what U, D, S, or N spec are...

Up Special
Down Special
Side Special
Neutral Special

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have a feeling the bowling ball is his F-tilt

I think it's the umbrella that's his F-tilt.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Up Special
Down Special
Side Special
Neutral Special

Oh ok, thank you very much!

 

[jaytalks]

I think we fight over who is a clone because it's been made to sound negative. if we define clone as "shares a similar special moveset" then we are good. There is nothing wrong with being a clone. In fact, sometimes being a clone makes a lot of sense.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yeah the clone also has a purpose for being in Smash.

 

[mimgrim]

Your still missing my point, Im NOT saying they are clones. At all. I'm not saying that. This has nothing to do with the terrible label of "clone" being cast on a character you like or something. All I am saying is that AESTHETICALLY brawl had a lot of terrible choices for spots. It felt like many characters were on a clone waiting list and got in only to be made into non-clone characters. These characters don't create a DIVERSE roster and it bugs me and I fear it may happen again here and then in a few years I'll be arguing about Alph and Tom Nook and Dixie not being diverse and some one will be defending them because of how they "play different". Fine if everyones cool with that, but I'd rather have a diverse roster.


The past is the past and I dont feel like dwelling but regardless of Wolfs popularity in smash as a character these days, I remember Brawl roster predictions, he was not a common choice at all. Most people didn't think star fox was getting a new rep and if they were it was Krystal.

The roster we should have gotten would have looked more like this:

View attachment 1410

With a few changes we have a much more diverse and satisfying roster. I cut R.O.B. for Mac as a better retro rep (this was a roster I made not for this post but for fun on my own as a "better brawl roster" just to see what it could have looked like...but it makes my point here either way) but even change that back and it's still way more diverse cutting a few of those "almost" clones for better choices. Take any roster thats been predicted this time around cut 3-4 of those interesting likely newcomers and instead add nook,alph,dixie or some other "almost clones" and thats the difference between this^ and the brawl roster we got and then tell me it's good that sakurai chooses characters that are similar to one another and "could be clones". But it's cool cause they "play" different so that makes them good choices. No it doesn't.

YOU think the Brawl roster isn't diverse, that doesn't mean other people think that same way. Brawl had more diversity then you give it credit for. You got a humanoid fox, bird, and wolf. All different animals that look different which makes them in definition diverse. We have a robot, we have a giant turtle, we have a princess, we have a space ****** with walking plants, we have a hedgehog, we have a army man, we have a overweight biker gangster, we have a giant gorillia, we have a monkey that has peanut guns, we have elves, we have a big bad human looking badguy, we have a woman in a suite of armor, we have that same woman in zer suite, we have a think sleek swordsman who is all about prescision, we have a big burly swordsman who is all about brute strength, we have a yellow mouse, we have a pink puff ball, we have a blue thing covered in blue auroa that knows how to kick you ass, we have a fire breathing lizard that can fly, we have a blue turtle, we have a fourlegged plant, do I need to go on? But wait according to your logic we should get rid of Luigi as we already have a plumber.

 

[JPW]

U-Spec: Balloon Jump.
D-Spec: Collect.
S-Spec: Bowling Ball.
N-Spec: Grow a Tree.
In a nutshell this could be Villager's Special Moveset.

Remember he drops the bowling ball though.
Unless there's one where he rolls it along the ground. WHICH WOULD BE ALL KINDS OF AWESOME!!!

I think it'll be more of a Down Smash/Down+A whatever you guys you call that.
That way it'll work for edge kills and such.

 

[Silverjay323]

Your still missing my point, Im NOT saying they are clones. At all. I'm not saying that. This has nothing to do with the terrible label of "clone" being cast on a character you like or something. All I am saying is that AESTHETICALLY brawl had a lot of terrible choices for spots. It felt like many characters were on a clone waiting list and got in only to be made into non-clone characters. These characters don't create a DIVERSE roster and it bugs me and I fear it may happen again here and then in a few years I'll be arguing about Alph and Tom Nook and Dixie not being diverse and some one will be defending them because of how they "play different". Fine if everyones cool with that, but I'd rather have a diverse roster.


The past is the past and I dont feel like dwelling but regardless of Wolfs popularity in smash as a character these days, I remember Brawl roster predictions, he was not a common choice at all. Most people didn't think star fox was getting a new rep and if they were it was Krystal.

The roster we should have gotten would have looked more like this:

View attachment 1410

With a few changes we have a much more diverse and satisfying roster. I cut R.O.B. for Mac as a better retro rep (this was a roster I made not for this post but for fun on my own as a "better brawl roster" just to see what it could have looked like...but it makes my point here either way) but even change that back and it's still way more diverse cutting a few of those "almost" clones for better choices. Take any roster thats been predicted this time around cut 3-4 of those interesting likely newcomers and instead add nook,alph,dixie or some other "almost clones" and thats the difference between this^ and the brawl roster we got and then tell me it's good that sakurai chooses characters that are similar to one another and "could be clones". But it's cool cause they "play" different so that makes them good choices. No it doesn't.

It's fine that you want diversity, but these characters got in because they deserved to be in smash. Krystal could easily be just as a semi-clone as wolf, and the other characters you chose will most likely be in Smash 4, and frankly, in my opinion, the brawl vets you cut deserved to get in before them. You're right when saying just playing differently doesn't make the character a good choice. It's the character themselves and what they and their franchise mean to Nintendo. That's why R.O.B got in before Little Mac, and the other "almost-clone characters" you cut.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I'm post number 9999!

 

[BluePikmin11]

Um, let's try to start a new topic, since we've been discussing Dillon for Smash, what about the Denpa Men?
Um, 10,000th POST HERE o.o
AHHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[mimgrim]

It's over 9000! :O