Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[N3ON]

And you can say Uprising ruins her chances, but I don't think Skyward Sword ruins Ganondorf's chances of returning over Demise.

If you're looking for a more apt comparison to Palutena and Medusa, look no further than Zelda technically get two unique movesets before Ganondorf got even one.

I honestly think Medusa and Palutena are competing far more closely for a place on the roster than 80% of people seem to want to even begin to admit.

I dunno, on one hand Palutena has appeared in every KI game, has the series named after her in Japan, actually has a notable amount of popularity, was given the clear secondary role in Uprising, not to mention her rather unique role in Brawl. I'd say it's pretty obvious who Sakurai thinks is the next most important KI character.

On the other hand, Medusa was the main antagonist in the first game and was Zant'd in Uprising. She has potential... but then so does Palutena. She doesn't have as much popularity, and Sakurai actually decreased her overall importance by relegating her to supporting antagonist role instead of primary.

I don't see why she would be given priority over Palutena, especially considering who's making this game.

Isn't K. Rool popular worldwide?

Yesh. All popular DK characters are pretty much popular worldwide.

 

[majora_787]

I went and looked myself. Medusa was mentioned in Pit's trophy in Melee, his trophy in Brawl, and Palutena's trophy. So she isn't "not even mentioned".

I could say Palutena was swapped out in favor of Viridi for a good chunk of Uprising, but I assume that won't mean anything to you because it isn't in support of your opinion.

And Sheik literally means nothing here, unless you want to tell me Pseudo-Palutena would get in over Medusa as well. In which case I think we're done having this conversation.

 

[Morbi]

You've answered your own question. Yes, Sakurai can re-scale King K. Rool, as he has already done for several other characters beforehand.

Size and shape are certainly not of a critical issue, at least not for K. Rool.

I was talking about Ridley. His size is undoubtedly a factor in his development as cited by Sakurai (albeit 5 years ago), it was his inherently false statement that leads me to this conclusion though.

 

[FinalStarmen]

I was talking about Ridley. His size is undoubtedly a factor in his development as cited by Sakurai (albeit 5 years ago), it was his inherently false statement that leads me to this conclusion though.

I do apologize, but the sentence structuring was somewhat jarring - I was unable to tell whether or not you were speaking of King K. Rool by using Ridley as a comparison, as there was a lack of clear transition. That, and I was mistaken as to whether or not you were also referencing that atrocious Japanese magazine stating K. Rool was "too big".

 

[majora_787]

I do apologize, but the sentence structuring was somewhat jarring - I was unable to tell whether or not you were speaking of King K. Rool by using Ridley as a comparison, as there was a lack of clear transition. That, and I was mistaken as to whether or not you were also referencing that atrocious Japanese magazine stating K. Rool was "too big".

I don't know. His eye might be too big.

I kind of wonder what K. Rool would actually be like in Smash Bros., since my only experience with him as an antagonist personally was DK 64.

 

[Chandeelure]

I really like the idea of Medusa.

 

[Morbi]

I do apologize, but the sentence structuring was somewhat jarring - I was unable to tell whether or not you were speaking of King K. Rool by using Ridley as a comparison, as there was a lack of clear transition. That, and I was mistaken as to whether or not you were also referencing that atrocious Japanese magazine stating K. Rool was "too big".

Yes, that was what I was referencing.

I reread the post and there are quite a few errors, my bad. I am passively posting as my attention is somewhat averted.

 

[Richard Nixon]

I'm honestly having a hard time seeing more Kid Icarus characters happening, but I'm not entirely sure why not... I guess there's Sakurai's "modesty"... Also neither Medusa nor Palutena really scream "unique new moveset material" to me. Medusa's more interesting, Palutena's more popular, but for the most part I'm not sure what they'd be able to actually do besides flinging magic effects around like Zelda. Maybe it's just a gut feeling, but I'm not really expecting either of them (not that I'd mind more KI representation).

 

[Hades the Magnificent]

Given that there's not a single mention of Medusa in Brawl (Palutena is everywhere, with Skyworld being named STGPALUTENA in the game), I doubt Sakurai thinks very highly of her.

Though I do maintain the stance that after Palutena, Medusa is the most likely Kid Icarus character.

Aww. I see we have yet another poor fool in denial. You don't understand, do you? I, Hades, am the TRUE master of the Underworld. Next to me, little miss Medusa looks like a sweet, cuddly bunny.


I can officially reveal that I am in the game. They are working on my trailer. I will be shown off after the next E3. Source: Sakurai is my father and he promised me I was his favorite kid and that he was bringing me into his new game.

 

[FinalStarmen]

I'm honestly having a hard time seeing more Kid Icarus characters happening, but I'm not entirely sure why not... I guess there's Sakurai's "modesty"... Also neither Medusa nor Palutena really scream "unique new moveset material" to me. Medusa's more interesting, Palutena's more popular, but for the most part I'm not sure what they'd be able to actually do besides flinging magic effects around like Zelda. Maybe it's just a gut feeling, but I'm not really expecting either of them (not that I'd mind more KI representation).

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Richard Nixon is actually discussing Super Smash Brothers.

Really, it all depends on whether or not Sakurai is willing to represent more of a series he personally worked on.

 

[Morbi]

Aww. I see we have yet another poor fool in denial. You don't understand, do you? I, Hades, am the TRUE master of the Underworld. Next to me, little miss Medusa looks like a sweet, cuddly bunny.


I can officially reveal that I am in the game. They are working on my trailer. I will be shown off after the next E3. Source: Sakurai is my father and he promised me I was his favorite kid and that he was bringing me into his new game.

That would be the best scenario in regards to Kid Icarus representation in my mind.

 

[majora_787]

I'm honestly having a hard time seeing more Kid Icarus characters happening, but I'm not entirely sure why not... I guess there's Sakurai's "modesty"... Also neither Medusa nor Palutena really scream "unique new moveset material" to me. Medusa's more interesting, Palutena's more popular, but for the most part I'm not sure what they'd be able to actually do besides flinging magic effects around like Zelda. Maybe it's just a gut feeling, but I'm not really expecting either of them (not that I'd mind more KI representation).

I never thought I would discuss this with Richard Nixon.

Basically what it comes down to is, I feel like with Palutena, her niche as a light caster goddess is sort of covered by Zelda and Rosalina. Not entirely covered I'm sure, but it's there. Medusa, on the other hand, has her closest thing as a dark caster being what. Ganondorf? Who is stronger slower Captain Falcon with darkness fists? And a lot of times when I see things for Palutena depicting her as sort of a "trapper" with a lot of spell binds and stuns and projectiles, I feel like it would be significantly more fitting for a Medusa moveset.

And also, regardless of which one actually makes it, the way they handled Kid Icarus in their first trailer kind of makes me feel good about us getting a second Kid Icarus character. But who knows. Besides Sakurai.

 

[Gene]

Aww. I see we have yet another poor fool in denial. You don't understand, do you? I, Hades, am the TRUE master of the Underworld. Next to me, little miss Medusa looks like a sweet, cuddly bunny.


I can officially reveal that I am in the game. They are working on my trailer. I will be shown off after the next E3. Source: Sakurai is my father and he promised me I was his favorite kid and that he was bringing me into his new game.

My mug is better than yours Hades.

 

[Hades the Magnificent]

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Richard Nixon is actually discussing Super Smash Brothers.

Really, it all depends on whether or not Sakurai is willing to represent more of a series he personally worked on.

If he's Richard Nixon, then I'm Hades.

Wait a second...

 

[Morbi]

I never thought I would discuss this with Richard Nixon.

Basically what it comes down to is, I feel like with Palutena, her niche as a light caster goddess is sort of covered by Zelda and Rosalina. Not entirely covered I'm sure, but it's there. Medusa, on the other hand, has her closest thing as a dark caster being what. Ganondorf? Who is stronger slower Captain Falcon with darkness fists? And a lot of times when I see things for Palutena depicting her as sort of a "trapper" with a lot of spell binds and stuns and projectiles, I feel like it would be significantly more fitting for a Medusa moveset.

And also, regardless of which one actually makes it, the way they handled Kid Icarus in their first trailer kind of makes me feel good about us getting a second Kid Icarus character. But who knows. Besides Sakurai.

Probably most of Sora Ltd.

 

[Gunla]

If he's Richard Nixon, then I'm Hades.

Wait a second...

And I'm Naoto Shirogane! What am I doing here?!

 

[Autumn ♫]

And I'm Naoto Shirogane! What am I doing here?!

And I'm the World's strongest! I am the one and only Mr. Hercule Satan! You know I'm awesome! I've even got my own theme!

 

[majora_787]

It doesn't even matter who I am, because this train rocketed off the rails and straight toward the sun a looong time ago and we're all about to die.

 

[FinalStarmen]

And I'm Naoto Shirogane! What am I doing here?!

You're speaking to the Richard Nixon and Hades the Magnificent. What else could you be doing here?

Back on topic, though... if Palutena were to be dis-confirmed through a Final Smash reveal, would that significantly raise the chances for Medusa as a playable character, or would that the series simply limit itself to one whole character?

 

[majora_787]

You're speaking to the Richard Nixon and Hades the Magnificent. What else could you be doing here?

Back of topic, though... if Palutena were to be dis-confirmed through a Final Smash reveal, would that significantly raise the chances for Medusa as a playable character, or would that the series simply limit itself to one whole character?

I'd imagine that if Palutena were still Pit's final smash, a second Kid Icarus character feels likely enough that it would increase Medusa's odds. I mean that's up to Sakurai and whether or not he plans on making Pit the next Kirby. But even then we still got Dedede and Meta Knight a couple games later.

 

[Gune]

It doesn't even matter who I am, because this train rocketed off the rails and straight toward the sun a looong time ago and we're all about to die.

Of course you want us all to despair I'm on to you...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Oh, yeah. Olimar might actually be limited to 3 Pikmin.

 

[Louie G.]

You're speaking to the Richard Nixon and Hades the Magnificent. What else could you be doing here?

Back of topic, though... if Palutena were to be dis-confirmed through a Final Smash reveal, would that significantly raise the chances for Medusa as a playable character, or would that the series simply limit itself to one whole character?

One character.
Palutena or bust imo. I don't really feel that any of the other possibilities (besides MAYBE, MAYBE Medusa) should be considered as serious contenders. Palutena is the only character with a true ongoing importance in Kid Icarus.

Oh, yeah. Olimar might actually be limited to 3 Pikmin.

I said so, and everyone told me no.

 

[Morbi]

You're speaking to the Richard Nixon and Hades the Magnificent. What else could you be doing here?

Back of topic, though... if Palutena were to be dis-confirmed through a Final Smash reveal, would that significantly raise the chances for Medusa as a playable character, or would that the series simply limit itself to one whole character?

Palutena isn't the only worthy Kid Icarus representative. We will definitely get an additional rep (in my opinion). It isn't out of the question that we wont get a new Kid Icarus character though, I just don't think that scenario is too likely.

 

[majora_787]

One character.
Palutena or bust imo. I don't really feel that any of the other possibilities (besides MAYBE, MAYBE Medusa) should be considered as serious contenders. Palutena is the only character with a true ongoing importance in Kid Icarus.

So we're pretending the first game never happened then? Well that's fair I guess. I mean not really, but it throws a lot more bones to Uprising since I doubt Sakurai cares much about Of Myths and Monsters.

 

[Richard Nixon]

If he's Richard Nixon, then I'm Hades.

Wait a second...

...

But yeah: what gets me is that dark and light casting magic seem like they'd only really be different aesthetically. Palutena and Medusa could very easily be given identical movesets, just one having lots of white and yellow flashy effects and the other having lots of purple and black flashy effects. I guess the possibility of stunning abilities is pretty unique, though, albeit potentially overpowered.

 

[Louie G.]

So we're pretending the first game never happened then? Well that's fair I guess. I mean not really, but it throws a lot more bones to Uprising since I doubt Sakurai cares much about Of Myths and Monsters.

I think that Kid Icarus Uprising is the game that will be given the most recognition in the next Smash Bros.
Without it, would we even CONSIDER another Kid Icarus character?
That being said, Sakurai completely killed Medusa's importance in Uprising by

Spoiler

introducing Hades as the real villain.

So the first game counts for something, but not as much as Uprising.
Oh, and I just realized. Palutena is a sidekick, a damsel in distress, AND a villain. Kinda like Dedede.

 

[majora_787]

But yeah: what gets me is that dark and light casting magic seem like they'd only really be different aesthetically. Palutena and Medusa could very easily be given identical movesets, just one having lots of white and yellow flashy effects and the other having lots of purple and black flashy effects. I guess the possibility of stunning abilities is pretty unique, though, albeit potentially overpowered.

It could be balanced by managing damage output. A lot of stuns could be required for a character that doesn't do as much damage as most characters, or who has projectiles that are easy to block, dodge, or reflect or whatnot.

And aesthetics can make a good enough difference to the most basic smash player. I mean if I had a dollar for every time I have heard a person say having a sword makes a character a clone by default but an axe would make them 500% different, I would PROBABLY be able to afford a cheap car.

EDIT: I don't see Hades as huge competition to Medusa or Palutena at all. He's like Demise; introduced in a very recent game as a really powerful evil entity, but doesn't represent the series; literally just that one new game.

 

[Morbi]

Hades would represent so much more than just Kid Icarus...

 

[N3ON]

Uprising is the only reason a second KI character isn't seen as a total joke, and in Uprising, excluding Pit, one character stood out as head-over-heels more integral and important than the rest of them, and that was Palutena. Sure, Medusa was the main antagonist of the first game, but we're not going to be getting a possible second KI character due to the first game, we're going to be getting one due to Uprising.

And it's not like Sakurai has given Palutena and Medusa equal attention either, nor are their levels of popularity anything close to each other.

I'd definitely go on record as saying we'll either get Palutena or bust as far as an original KI newcomer goes.

 

[Gunla]

Of course you want us all to despair I'm on to you...

We're gonna ride this crazy, monochrome teddy bear train to the sun. Followed by a side of despair and super duper nasty torture.

On Terms of Hades... He's not as likely simply because he's not really been as big, despite being the actual villain. Medusa has been the poster girl for evil in the KI series. No MUHRECENCY.

 

[Morbi]

Dismissing characters that "aren't likely" is always a good idea.

It isn't Palutena or bust, it never will be.

(well maybe it IS Ridley or bust... haha)

 

[BluePikmin11]

I prefer Hades over Medusa, I'd like to see him as the new villain for future Kid Icarus titles. He has lots more personality than Medusa, I'd like him to be acknowledged instead, despite Medusa's uniqueness of turning people into stone.

 

[majora_787]

Uprising is the only reason a second KI character isn't seen as a total joke, and in Uprising, excluding Pit, one character stood out as head-over-heels more integral and important than the rest of them, and that was Palutena. Sure, Medusa was the main antagonist of the first game, but we're not going to be getting a possible second KI character due to the first game, we're going to be getting one due to Uprising.

And it's not like Sakurai has given Palutena and Medusa equal attention either, nor are their levels of popularity anything close to each other.

I'd definitely go on record as saying we'll either get Palutena or bust as far as an original KI newcomer goes.

So we are exclusively crediting character recency to series top sellers now? I am pretty sure that's not how it works. The series is the series, even if not all of it came out as well as some specific games in it. We are getting Metroid represented based off Other M because it is new, not because it is the most successful Metroid game. If we wanted to base Metroid off of the most successful game, we'd have to base it all off of Prime.

Recency, top selling games, and popularity aren't going to make or break anything for anyone. What this has come down to is this: Between the two biggest remaining names, who does Sakurai think will fit better in Super Smash Bros.? Palutena, who is more popular and was in the US exclusive Kid Icarus game where Medusa was not, and played an important role in Uprising for a longer period of time than Medusa despite ALSO getting swapped out in favor of another character, or Medusa. A less popular but more unique and option-filled character who is the series antagonist while ranking below new one-game wonder Hades who while not being the main antagonist was the primary antagonist of the first arc of the game, AND also still showed up to participate in the end of the game?

It's not some "Palutena is literally the only option with any merits whatsoever and nobody else has any chance in hell" thing. It is a close situation that will literally come down to what Sakurai feels is more important. More games fans and screentime, or more unique capabilities. And the way Sakurai has been handling characters in SSB4 so far, I believe personally that unique capabilities count for a very good amount.

 

[Morbi]

So we are exclusively crediting character recency to series top sellers now? I am pretty sure that's not how it works. The series is the series, even if not all of it came out as well as some specific games in it. We are getting Metroid represented based off Other M because it is new, not because it is the most successful Metroid game. If we wanted to base Metroid off of the most successful game, we'd have to base it all off of Prime.

Recency, top selling games, and popularity aren't going to make or break anything for anyone. What this has come down to is this: Between the two biggest remaining names, who does Sakurai think will fit better in Super Smash Bros.? Palutena, who is more popular and was in the US exclusive Kid Icarus game where Medusa was not, and played an important role in Uprising for a longer period of time than Medusa despite ALSO getting swapped out in favor of another character, or Medusa. A less popular but more unique and option-filled character who is the series antagonist while ranking below new one-game wonder Hades who while not being the main antagonist was the primary antagonist of the first arc of the game, AND also still showed up to participate in the end of the game?

It's not some "Palutena is literally the only option with any merits whatsoever and nobody else has any chance in hell" thing. It is a close situation that will literally come down to what Sakurai feels is more important. More games fans and screentime, or more unique capabilities. And the way Sakurai has been handling characters in SSB4 so far, I believe personally that unique capabilities count for a very good amount.

Rosalina's burning passion is fueling the "muh recency" arguments...

 

[Gunla]

Rosalina's burning passion is fueling the "muh recency" arguments...

I swear... MUHRECENCY is a really flimsy arguement. It doesn't really get anywhere and Retros shoot it down.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

So we are exclusively crediting character recency to series top sellers now? I am pretty sure that's not how it works. The series is the series, even if not all of it came out as well as some specific games in it. We are getting Metroid represented based off Other M because it is new, not because it is the most successful Metroid game. If we wanted to base Metroid off of the most successful game, we'd have to base it all off of Prime.

Recency, top selling games, and popularity aren't going to make or break anything for anyone. What this has come down to is this: Between the two biggest remaining names, who does Sakurai think will fit better in Super Smash Bros.? Palutena, who is more popular and was in the US exclusive Kid Icarus game where Medusa was not, and played an important role in Uprising for a longer period of time than Medusa despite ALSO getting swapped out in favor of another character, or Medusa. A less popular but more unique and option-filled character who is the series antagonist while ranking below new one-game wonder Hades who while not being the main antagonist was the primary antagonist of the first arc of the game, AND also still showed up to participate in the end of the game?

It's not some "Palutena is literally the only option with any merits whatsoever and nobody else has any chance in hell" thing. It is a close situation that will literally come down to what Sakurai feels is more important. More games fans and screentime, or more unique capabilities. And the way Sakurai has been handling characters in SSB4 so far, I believe personally that unique capabilities count for a very good amount.

That's very debatable, I think they have the same amount of options available for both Palutena and Medusa. Plus, if you say Zelda already uses Light Magic, then I can reply Ganondorf uses dark. So they're equal in options and uniqueness.

 

[8-peacock-8]

That's very debatable, I think they have the same amount of options available for both Palutena and Medusa. Plus, if you say Zelda already uses Light Magic, then I can reply Ganondorf uses dark. So they're equal in options and uniqueness.

Rosalina was once considered debatable in the same way. Just throwing that out there....

 

[Morbi]

I swear... MUHRECENCY is a really flimsy arguement. It doesn't really get anywhere and Retros shoot it down.

It is a key aspect of the character's inclusion; however, it should never be used as the only argument. It shouldn't even be used as the main argument. It can be mentioned passively in my opinion, but some people act like that is the only relevant attribute that decides whether or not the character is plausible.

 

[majora_787]

That's very debatable, I think they have the same amount of options available for both Palutena and Medusa. Plus, if you say Zelda already uses Light Magic, then I can reply Ganondorf uses dark. So they're equal in options and uniqueness.

The thing is, the options given to Palutena more often are fitting to Medusa and are just being given to Palutena so she can have the options. As I have said before, in terms of traps, snares, stuns, and complicated projectiles.

And yes. I can say Zelda uses light magic. She is actually a casting character. Ganondorf is a melee-based heavyweight whose fists to dark damage. He isn't a casting character in the slightest.