Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[N3ON]

Snake isn't deserving to be in a Nintendo crossover when the only other third-parties are the likes of Sonic, Mega Man, and characters actually closely tied to Nintendo. He's a huge gaming icon, no one can deny that, but his ties lie with Sakurai, not Nintendo to any great or noteworthy extent. But he's been included, and many, including Sakurai, enjoyed his inclusion, so debating whether he "deserves" it at this point is... pointless. Bringing up reasons why he shouldn't be included as if he wasn't previously included is pointless. There are points against him that persist, but the points for him are clear and much weightier, which are Sakurai likes him, the majority of the fans like him, his series is still on Nintendo platforms as much as it ever was, and Kojima is probably still for his inclusion, he has been for over a decade, so why exactly do people think he's so likely to be cut?

He doesn't fit? Sakurai thinks he fits. He's not fit to be in a Nintendo-centric game? Valid point, but clearly not a detriment to Sakurai. I don't get it. There hasn't been a rift between Nintendo and Konami, or Sakurai and Kojima (afawk), so... claiming he'll be cut, while a possibility, isn't really a likelihood.

 

[?????????????]

I think Chrom is more deserving than Roy, Lucas is more deserving than Ness, Simon Belmont is BY FAR more deserving than Bomberman, Ridley and Little Mac are the most deserving characters we don't have, and Palutena is barely deserving.

There. My opinions are exposed as well.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

so the topic is snake now? time to throw my 2 cents in then:

snake is obviously the odd man out of the bunch, everyone can notice that,
but that is part of his charm though, he's the guy that's from a more matured stance, which is unlike Kirby, Pokémon, and Yoshi,
and because of this, along with him being one of the most interesting move pools out this, makes him a popular veteran,
and along with being deserving, he has some credit out there for being started on the nes, or else he wouldn't have gotten in the first place for being a third party,
popularity, interesting, enough deserving, makes him seem like a shoo in doesn't it? but he does happen to have one fatal flaw though,
we are unsure if kojima and/or sakurai wants snake to return, but from sakurai's past tweets, from him stating that he "we will try to bring back as many characters as possible" and "we have not cut any planned characters yet"
which means is that he is at least trying to bring back snake,
in the jist of it all, he's not out, not by a long shot, he's got a great chance to make it back in, but there is the chance that kojima and/or sakurai will change their minds about snake, unlikely but still it's there

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I think Chrom is more deserving than Roy, Lucas is more deserving than Ness, Simon Belmont is BY FAR more deserving than Bomberman, Ridley and Little Mac are the most deserving characters we don't have, and Palutena is barely deserving.

There. My opinions are exposed as well.

I agree with all except Lucas over Ness. As a genuine question, why do you think that Lucas is more deserving than Ness?

 

[Curious Villager]

Everybody really has a different view of what they consider to be "deserving". What you find deserving wouldn't necessarily be what I find deserving and what we find undeserving wouldn't necessarily be the same opinion for Sakurai. Honestly, in the end it's all a matter of opinion really.

Just giving my two cents here, really.

 

[Starcutter]

I find kamek more deserving than half the characters people suggest.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I think Chrom is more deserving than Roy, Lucas is more deserving than Ness, Simon Belmont is BY FAR more deserving than Bomberman, Ridley and Little Mac are the most deserving characters we don't have, and Palutena is barely deserving.

There. My opinions are exposed as well.

I would do a who I think is more deserving on here, but I'm saving that for my countdown.

While we're talking about countdowns, or at least I am, does anybody know a good video downloader?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And yes, there are other characters more deserving than Rosalina, but Rosalina not only represents one of the greatest Mario games ever made, but it seems like she is getting a much bigger role in the Mario franchise as of late.

This makes you wonder what road Bowser Jr. will end up in now. He was a new character during the GameCube era, and has been highly involved in the mainstream games that he appeared in. But considering that Bowser Jr.'s last mainstream appearance was New Super Mario Bros. U, one could ask if being absent from 3D World could have a negative impact on his playable odds.

 

[Jaedrik]

Sakurai apparently saw the potential in Rosalina.

 

[Louie G.]

This makes you wonder what road Bowser Jr. will end up in now. He was a new character during the GameCube era, and has been highly involved in the mainstream games that he appeared in. But considering that Bowser Jr.'s last mainstream appearance was New Super Mario Bros. U, one could ask if being absent from 3D World could have a negative impact on his playable odds.

I think if anything affects his odds, it's the inclusion of Rosalina as a 5th Mario character.
6 Mario characters isn't impossible, but unlikely.

 

[?????????????]

I agree with all except Lucas over Ness. As a genuine question, why do you think that Lucas is more deserving than Ness?

Between Earthbound and MOTHER 3, the two characters share a similar role and near identical powers, except I believe that Lucas was more characterized and MOTHER 3 is the newer and stronger of the two games.

I also think about Sakurai's apparent intent to replace Ness with Lucas in Melee; I believe it might be circumstantial that we even continue to HAVE Ness in SSB. If MOTHER 3 had been released as planned, Lucas may very well have been Ness's permanent replacement.

 

[Chandeelure]

Simon Belmont is BY FAR more deserving than Bomberman.

I know it's your opinion,but...WHAT?!

 

[NickerBocker]

Not that I want Snake to leave, but compared to Bomberman and Simon Belmont, he has little to do with Nintendo, but the only way we will get those guys is if Snake leaves (and I would much rather have one of those)

 

[Starcutter]

if there's going to be any 3rd party gunman in smash, it should be the Contra guys.

 

[?????????????]

I know it's your opinion,but...WHAT?!

Castlevania has a definitive strong-enough tie with Nintendo, and is the bigger series between the two.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think if anything affects his odds, it's the inclusion of Rosalina as a 5th Mario character.
6 Mario characters isn't impossible, but unlikely.

Perhaps, but Brawl did get away with having 6 playable Pokemon, even though three of them belong to the Pokemon Trainer.

 

[N3ON]

If Snake doesn't return my bet would be we got no Konami character over a different Konami character.

 

[Chandeelure]

OK,ok , I want a Bomberman vs Simon debate,NOW!

 

[LoneKonWolf]

OK,ok , I want a Bomberman vs Simon debate,NOW!

Bomberman blows up the debate,
Bomberman wins
but still I vote Bomberman . . .

 

[LordJackal]

I just don't know what's going to happen with Bomberman anymore...they've basically let him die since they acquired him.

 

[N3ON]

Castlevania has a definitive strong-enough tie with Nintendo, and is the bigger series between the two.

Bomberman is (...was) significantly more popular though, especially in Japan. He's taken a bit of a nosedive, but if he started getting games again or people thought he was an actual possibility it'd shoot back up - and even in its state now his popularity is still superior to Simon's.

Plus while Castlevania definitely has a higher impact-per-game ratio, Bomberman does have the bigger series.

 

[shrooby]

The problem with based on deserving is well... it's very interpretable. It's a horrific tool to judge chances. Deserving could mean how many games they were in or how detrimental they were in the mythos of the games.

To truly judge, we must use every tool before making our guesses to really get a thought at their chances.

For me, "deserving" serves as more of a reason for me to want a character in a game.
That is, for me, I don't see likeliness and deserving-ness as being the same thing, or even as being cause and effect-ish. For example, I think Toad deserves to be a playable character for such and such reasons that I won't go into, but I still don't think he's likely. In other words, I think he should be on the roster, but I don't think he will be. There are also characters such as Palutena, whom I personally don't think should be included, but I do think think that she is more likely than, for example, Toad, who I think "deserves" the spot more.
To me, I see the "deserving" argument as more of a way to convince others that they should be supportive of a character's inclusion, but not necessarily include them on actual prediction rosters, if you get what I mean.

He doesn't fit? Sakurai thinks he fits. He's not fit to be in a Nintendo-centric game? Valid point, but clearly not a detriment to Sakurai. I don't get it. There hasn't been a rift between Nintendo and Konami, or Sakurai and Kojima (afawk), so... claiming he'll be cut, while a possibility, isn't really a likelihood.

If anything, I think Snake's out of place-ness is what really gives him his charm as a playable character. He IS extremely out of place. There really is no other haracter like him. Now doesn't that sound familiar?
Snake's uniqueness comes from not only his moveset, which is a very fun stage control-focused one, but also from the fact that he just plain sticks out like no other character does, given his background and appearance. That, for me at least, is why I love his inclusion and why I hope he stays.
That and I love the Codecs.

 

[?????????????]

Plus while Castlevania definitely has a higher impact-per-game ratio, Bomberman does have the bigger series.

By number of games, yes, but by total sales, Castlevania games have sold nearly twice the amount of copies than Bomberman games have.

 

[Louie G.]

KONAMI CHARACTERS ADVANTAGES:
SNAKE:
+ALREADY WAS IN BRAWL
+Probably Konami's most iconic character
+Kojima and Sakurai are best buds

BOMBERMAN:
+Ties with Nintendo date back to NES and a crossover with Wario

SIMON BELMONT:
+Castlevania has continued to have games on Nintendo consoles

Snake has a leg up on the other two, but what they have over Snake is stronger ties with Nintendo.
Although it's Snake or bust imo.

 

[?????????????]

I myself would also find Simon Belmont a much more interesting addition to SSB.

I'm not saying that Bomberman would be boring or anything dumb like that; yes, he uses bombs, but he has plenty of variations of bombs and other power-ups that could be incorporated into a very unique moveset.

However, Simon Belmont IMMEDIATELY offers the whip-based fighting style, plus a plethora of completely different sub-weapons.

 

[LordJackal]

Holy water all day every day.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Between Earthbound and MOTHER 3, the two characters share a similar role and near identical powers, except I believe that Lucas was more characterized and MOTHER 3 is the newer and stronger of the two games.

I also think about Sakurai's apparent intent to replace Ness with Lucas in Melee; I believe it might be circumstantial that we even continue to HAVE Ness in SSB. If MOTHER 3 had been released as planned, Lucas may very well have been Ness's permanent replacement.

Lucas was more characterized for sure, but that's mostly because Ness has little to no character. Mother 3 is also the newer game, but it's still an out of stores 2006 Japan-only game, so in that matter recency doesn't really matter. As for which is the stronger of the two, that's subjective, but I feel that Earthbound is a hundred times better than Mother 3, mostly because Earthbound is my favorite game of all-time where as Mother 3 dissapointed me on multiple fronts.

At this point in time Ness isn't going out of Smash Bros. The reason he would have been replaced in Melee was because Mother 3 needed advertising, aka the recency argument. It's the same thing with Fire Emblem and Pokémon, it's a rotating cast. However, Mother 3 is long overdue, and by the end of the day Ness is the only international face of the two, which means more people around the world would be torn about him getting cut over that Japan-only boy. Plus, Ness has a better track record in Smash too, which should give him the edge.

Either way, I do respect your opinion on the matter, so it's not like I'm trying to whip up a discussion or trying to convince you, but I was just interested in that point of view.

 

[Chandeelure]

Holy water all day every day.

 

[Knight Dude]

Either of those two would be interesting choices. I do personally like Simon Belmont more though, I feel like he'd be more unique. The Vampire Killer has enough to draw from for a moveset by itself. And to top it all off, Simon can uses his secondary weapons too. Not to say Bomberman doesn't have anything going for him though. Different elemental bombs could offer some cool attacks. And he has a jetpack.

So who would you guys pick for a second Sega character?

 

[?????????????]

Either way, I do respect your opinion on the matter, so it's not like I'm trying to whip up a discussion or trying to convince you, but I was just interested in that point of view.

Yeah. I stand my opinion on that, but I'm the minority on that one. At this point, I doubt Ness would ever be cut, but if for some weird, theoretical reason they HAD to make the choice between the two...I'm not sure.

So who would you guys pick for a second Sega character?

Secondary Sonic characters are the most obvious; I think that a secondary SEGA series is so far down from Sonic's popularity when compared to adding a second Konami character.

I myself would go with Tails, but Knuckles and Shadow have a lot of merit as well.

If I had to pick a non-Sonic character...I would go with Amigo!

 

[YoshiandToad]

So who would you guys pick for a second Sega character?

If secondary Sonic character is allowed; Tails. If secondary Sonic character is not allowed; Vyse from Skies of Arcadia...or maybe Alex Kidd.

On the Konami debate I'd go Team Bomberman. I think Simon would stick out just as sorely as Snake would. Also if Wii Fit Trainer is considered unique because she fights with Yoga poses, a guy who fights with just explosives should be considered just as unique.

Or would had Snake already taken that position too.

 

[shrooby]

Holy water all day every day.

How do you make holy water?
You boil the hell out of it.

 

[?????????????]

I think Simon would stick out just as sorely as Snake would.

...Really?

 

[Chandeelure]

Either of those two would be interesting choices. I do personally like Simon Belmont more though, I feel like he'd be more unique. The Vampire Killer has enough to draw from for a moveset by itself. And to top it all off, Simon can uses his secondary weapons too. Not to say Bomberman doesn't have anything going for him though. Different elemental bombs could offer some cool attacks. And he has a jetpack.

So who would you guys pick for a second Sega character?

Tails.
Non Sonic character,AiAi.

 

[Jubileus57]

So who would you guys pick for a second Sega character?

I'd go with Bayonetta (by that I mean I desperately want Bayonetta ) . Bayonetta 2 will need advertisement (Platinum Games' titles despite their greatness sell rather porly), and what better advertisement could it get than it's protagonist being in the game. She also has awesome moveset potential.

Though I understand that she might have issues with the ratings.

 

[Starbound]

I think Simon would stick out less than Snake, but I think he'd still stick out from all of the bright colors in Nintendo world

 

[Autumn ♫]

So, I reecently made my cuts roster, how do you guys think?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

On the Konami debate: Snake > Simon > Bomberman

On the Sega debate: Tails or Eggman.

 

[Gunla]

So, I reecently made my cuts roster, how do you guys think?

Actually, this ain't half bad. My only gripe is the lack of Waddle Dee and cutting Jiggs, but this is a great roster otherwise. And you have Cranky AND K Rool. Props.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So, I reecently made my cuts roster, how do you guys think?

I give you props for putting Cranky Kong, though I think there shouldn't be 4 FE characters, remove either Roy or Robin. Personally I would remove Roy, since Robin is probably going to be the more unique character. Most of your additions are original newcomers, so why not add someone from another series?