Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Opossum]

Pokemon, Zelda, and Mario are the 3 biggest franchises out there, why would Pokemon have more than Mario and Zelda?
And the Marth and Roy thing was a joke

Did you fail to realize that Pokemon had more than Zelda and Mario in Brawl?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Did you fail to realize that Pokemon had more than Zelda and Mario in Brawl?

In terms that Pokemon Trainer is just a slot for Pokemon, it technically doesn't matter.

 

[Wigglytuff ★]

Did you fail to realize that Pokemon had more than Zelda and Mario in Brawl?

I'm not sure I agree with this statement. I consider PKMN trainer as 1 single character because the stamina mechanism forces you to use all of them, whereas I consider Sheik a separate character because you can use her without switching back to Zelda.

Assuming we're done with surprises is a bit naive, even if we don't get another WTF character. Brawl had at least four surprise characters.

So...R.O.B., Snake, PKMN Trainer, and...? (not trying to be sassy, my memories of the lead-up to Brawl are hazy and I don't recall exactly who was/wasn't considered likely).

 

[Deleted member]

In terms that Pokemon Trainer is just a slot for Pokemon, it technically doesn't matter.

Except that Sakurai counts each playable character individually, regardless of whether it's a form or not.
By his word, there are 39 characters in Brawl.

 

[Opossum]

Just to tell you guys, Sakurai has gone on record saying that Brawl has 39 characters. That would mean he counts PT, ZSS, and Sheik separately.

Frankly, the ideology of "Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon need the same number of reps" is completely irrelevant and unfounded.

EDIT: Now Golden took what I was gonna say. See Golden? You got your ninja revenge...

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, BluePikmin, the main three have never had equal representation in Smash, so assuming Sakurai cares about that is... just incorrect.

So...R.O.B., Snake, PKMN Trainer, and...? (not trying to be sassy, my memories of the lead-up to Brawl are hazy and I don't recall exactly who was/wasn't considered likely).

Zero Suit Samus caught people off guard as well.

I'm a big kid now, N3ON. I can fight my own battles.

But hey, if you want to deal with him all by yourself, all the power to you.

 

[MagnesD3]

I thought we already got our WTF character. It's Wii Fit Trainer. No one really saw that coming(except for one guy apparently).

also on the subject for Falco vs Krystal vs Wolf. Right now i see Krystal as very unlikely. Starfox Adventures is a decade old, and the Starfox Assault wasn't well received. Krystal could very well be dumped as a Starfox representative. There is also no way she is more important than Falco or Wolf is to the franchise.
Fox, Falco, Wolf have been there since the beginning i believe. Therefore they have the best chance at returning and there is no way Krystal could replace any of them.

I'd say it is arguable that falco is more important than Krystal as well as say that Krystal has a great Moveset just waiting to be used, falco is a clone and if cuts are to be made then I'd easily see him be gone second only after toon link.

 

[Grinch21X]

Im surprised Shantae isnt brought up more. Considering her new console outing coming up to Wii U she could be a perfect fit to the Smash universe as well as add some non-white estrogen to the mix. It could be her genie or her new non-magical self from the upcoming titles. I think she'd be a great pick.

 

[N3ON]

Im surprised Shantae isnt brought up more. Considering her new console outing coming up to Wii U she could be a perfect fit to the Smash universe as well as add some non-white estrogen to the mix. It could be her genie or her new non-magical self from the upcoming titles. I think she'd be a great pick.

If she was a Nintendo character she'd probably be brought up all the time, but as a third-party character from a comparatively minor company, and considering how picky Sakurai is, her chances are rather paltry, sadly. I think she'd be cool too.

 

[Grinch21X]

True, but since she's published by Capcom alongside Megaman and that her title history is Nintendo-exclusive would reinforce the idea. I agree with you though. Its just my wishful thinking ;;~;;

 

[BluePikmin11]

Doesn't Wayforward own Shantae?

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, Capcom published the original, but WayFoward solely owns the IP, Capcom hasn't been involved in the series since.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd say it is arguable that falco is more important than Krystal as well as say that Krystal has a great Moveset just waiting to be used, falco is a clone and if cuts are to be made then I'd easily see him be gone second only after toon link.

Second in command and prominent within the series > minor love interest introduced later in the series.

Falco is also not that much of a clone; Brawl changed him up quite a bit to give him more of a "bladed wing" style of fighting. Yeah, he still has a couple of moves similar to Fox, but he's pretty much what Luigi is to Mario now.

And it's not like he can't be changed up more.

 

[---]

Pokemon, Zelda, and Mario are the 3 biggest franchises out there, why would Pokemon have more than Mario and Zelda?

Because there are more viable and reasonable Pokemon characters than Mario or Zelda characters? And that by going by sales is not a viable form of selecting possible characters?

 

[Sharkarat]

Personally I don't see Falco getting cut for Krystal.
I could see Falco/Wolf cut with no replacement and can see her joining as the fourth Star Fox character.
I just don't think she popular/important/unique enough to get higher priority than those already in.

 

[N3ON]

Falco has the kind of importance from showing up more and being there since the beginning, but Krystal has the kind of importance where she's focused on more than Falco in the games she's in and contributes to the story (the bad, bad story). I still think it's debatable, but not nearly enough that Falco would be cut for Krystal, she's not that important.

Either way Wolf is more important than both of em.

 

[FalKoopa]

Character cuts are never decided by whether a character is a clone or not. If StarFox receives cuts (which I believe is very unlikely), I'm pretty sure that Wolf will be cut before Falco.

 

[Deleted member]

Falco has the kind of importance from showing up more and being there since the beginning, but Krystal has the kind of importance where she's focused on more than Falco in the games she's in and contributes to the story (the bad, bad story). I still think it's debatable, but not nearly enough that Falco would be cut for Krystal, she's not that important.

Either way Wolf is more important than both of em.

Both contribute to Adventures and Command; neither contribute much to Assault.
They're pretty much equal in that regard (especially when Farewell, Beloved Falco is taken to account).
So it comes down to Falco having more appearances, and being a higher-ranked member of the team.

Wolf is definitely more important than Krystal, but between him and Falco, hard to tell.

 

[Grinch21X]

I dont see Wolf getting cut and Im going to say that Fox and Falco are both practically guaranteed. I couldnt say which other Starfox characters would be worth Smash's time.

 

[N3ON]

Both contribute to Adventures and Command; neither contribute much to Assault.
They're pretty much equal in that regard (especially when Farewell, Beloved Falco is taken to account).
So it comes down to Falco having more appearances, and being a higher-ranked member of the team.

Wolf is definitely more important than Krystal, but between him and Falco, hard to tell.

I don't have the inclination to really get into this, but even you have to admit the biggest part of Falco's contribution to Adventures is him not being there for the most part. A character who is absent the entirety of the playable game because they couldn't fit him in and has no actual effect on the game isn't as important as the character the game was built around and has an impact during the game.

I'd also suggest if Adventures hypothetically happened pre-Melee, like on the 64 (not as Dinosaur Planet, as Adventures), and Sakurai thought Krystal made a suitable clone, she would've gotten in over Falco. Though you know... can't really prove anything.

 

[Deleted member]

Krystal barely had an effect on the game ironically enough. Just being there.

Fox already was already planning on saving the Sauria planet due to it giving a distress call. When he found that he needed to save Krystal on top of that as he is trying to save the planet itself, he didn't care about saving Krystal until Tricky convinced him.
And throughout the whole game, his focus was on saving the planet not her.

And also, Falco was chosen as the clone due to his popularity and the fact he looked different from Fox.

 

[TheTuninator]

I can't see Falco ever being cut for Krystal. Falco is more popular and more important by virtue of being in Starfox 64, and his inclusion in 2 Smash games now has only made him even more popular. Krystal is not important enough to warrant Falco being cut to make room for her.

Krystal is an extreme long shot at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

Krystal as a 4th Star Fox character = acceptable
Krystal replacing Falco and/or Wolf = unacceptable


Simple as that.

 

[N3ON]

I know once her part is done she's mostly out of the way until the end, but that's still a lot more than Falco has in that game. He wasn't there and then he shows up at the end! Slippy, Peppy, Tricky, Scales, even Andross is more important.

And yeah, I know why Falco was chosen, I'm just saying if Krystal had existed then with her Krystal popularity, and Sakurai didn't have any qualms making her a direct clone like Falco was, I'd guess she'd have been the one chosen. Even if Falco looks more distinct. No real point to my speculation, just a hypothetical.

EDIT: And I'm not advocating for either Falco or Wolf to be cut, I'm just saiyan.

 

[Vann Accessible]

If anything I think Wolf would be cut first.

 

[Deleted member]

Shows up at the end, and pretty much is the only reason Fox wasn't killed by Andross.

 

[Wigglytuff ★]

Krystal as a 4th Star Fox character = acceptable
Krystal replacing Falco and/or Wolf = unacceptable


Simple as that.

What about Krystal replacing Fox?

 

[Deleted member]

What about Krystal replacing Fox?

Not only is that super unacceptable, it's also literally impossible now.
Fox is already confirmed .

 

[MagnesD3]

Wolf is clearly more important than either Krystal or falco so anyone saying he should be cut is silly, I remember him being teased for the game but never being unlock able in melee that always bothered me because wolf is so much more important than falco. As for the whole Krystal vs. falco thing it is extremely debatable (even though I still say Krystal has more importance.) since nobody will change their stances it's dumb to discuss about falco vs Krystal. Cutting wolf though is not an option (unique and important characters should NEVER be cut)

 

[volbound1700]

There, satisfied? (Credit goes to Rebellious Treeko) There are 54 characers total.

They are on both versions.

I would be very happy with this Roster!

 

[Sharkarat]

There, satisfied? (Credit goes to Rebellious Treeko) There are 54 characers total.

They are on both versions.

Personally I would replace AR Man with Isaac. But other than that I would be okay with this roster.

 

[FalKoopa]

On BluePikmin's roster.
I would only cut Mii and AR Man (not fond of either) and replace them with Roy and Isaac.

Also the roster seems a bit too big. Though that's not a problem for me.

 

[Chauzu]

Hard to complain about über big roosters. Unless you want to be boring and bring out the realism argument.

 

[papagenos]

Except that Sakurai counts each playable character individually, regardless of whether it's a form or not.
By his word, there are 39 characters in Brawl.

My GUESS is that we will have 49 characters in Smash Wiiu in Sakurai's mind but 45 actual spots on the character select screen because of 1.sheik 2.zero suit samus AND 3.charizard 4. ivysaur 5. squirtle. all counted as separate characters. possibly a 46/47th spot(s) on the character select page for Mii or/and the Random icon, mattering to how they incorporate Mii's if they are on the roster (for instance if I simplly choose a characters moveset for my Mii to use it might not count as a "newcomer" spot and just be an interesting feature in the game).

I base this on the fact that the site has the character icons in sets of 9 and the mobile site has 5 at a time, likely this will fit 45 character slots by the end.

However, that's me being optimistic...and sadly after brawl it's tough to get my hopes up even for that highly reasonable amount of characters SO it could also happen that we get a 45 character Roster in Sakurai's mind with 4 of those spots being the sheik/zero suit samus characters and each of pkmn trainers pokemon getting their own separate spot and a character select screen with only 40 different spots.

it's also possible that pkmn trainer will have one spot on the main site and zero suit and sheik will have their own spots like last time.and then in Sakurai's mind we will have 47 different move sets or "characters in sakurais mind" with a 43 character spot select screen, again possiblly 45 spots adding Mii and random mattering to how and if Mii's are incorporated and if they will be a "newcomer" or simply a feature on the select screen similar to the random button.

this hurts my head to think about all this and I'm pushing for the optimistic 45 character icons on the roster with 50 character move sets available and Mii's incorporated in a way that doesn't take up a spot.

This would mean a decent amount of "cuts" to get even the same number of "newcomers" as we got in brawl this time around to fit in the roster, I'd love for them to cut the clone or "similar enough" clone characters (besides cases like ganondorf who should get his own moveset now) and make the clones alternate costumes of the original non-clone character but actually give them a name switch and different voice work and a complete set of color costume changes (similar to wario and his wario ware costume actually being twice as many costumes): ness can have a lucas costume mario can have dr. mario fox can have falco peach can have daisy etc... if this was incorporated it would require no time making new movesets but simplly "drawing" new skins onto existing movesets and adding some voice work (or even make them silent in those costumes who cares) and incorporating the characters we've come to enjoy playing as while still freeing up space on the roster for many Newcomers. Sadly Sakurai doesn't seem like the type to do this and we'll end up with something stupid and pointless like wario being chosen to have an extra number of costumes in brawl. oh well, it's a thought that could really fix this limited roster problem.

 

[Deleted member]

Hard to complain about über big roosters. Unless you want to be boring and bring out the realism argument.

Pretty sure my big rooster is quite real and not boring.

 

[Deleted member]

Krystal as a 4th Star Fox character = acceptable
Krystal replacing Falco and/or Wolf = unacceptable


Simple as that.

This. Every time I hear someone suggest Krystal as a replacement, it reminds of me of why I hate when people try to push for cuts.

 

[FalKoopa]

Hard to complain about über big roosters. Unless you want to be boring and bring out the realism argument.

Yeah, it's huge. Just look at it's size.

Unfortunately, it's not realistic at all.

 

[Moon Monkey]

 

[Wigglytuff ★]

Not only is that super unacceptable, it's also literally impossible now.
Fox is already confirmed .

It could all be a ruse; Fox could pull off his mask, Scooby-Doo style, and reveal that he was Krystal all along!

 

[FalKoopa]

So many people predicting Toon Link to be cut is depressing.