Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TumblrFamous]

Well, I guess Mother is the same, right?
Size isn't much of an issue for character representation.

I can see why Mother got characters. Mother certainly had a bigger impact on gaming than Kid Icarus. KI hasn't been too huge, from a game and impact standpoint. Still a popular series, though, I won't deny that.

 

[?????????????]

But Palutena is the Zelda of the franchise, she's the titular character in Japan.
Her importance to the series is very large.
She also reps a popular new and noteworthy Nintendo game which can easily get away with 2 characters.

I'm not denying any of that.

But I'm not convinced that KI itself needs another character just because of Kid Icarus Uprising. It works, but Pit's doing a fine job on his own using new gear introduced from that game.

 

[AEMehr]

@AEM:
I don't think comparing importance of a Pokémon to importance of a character to a different series is that fair of a comparison.
In a way, it's comparing apples to oranges.

I see your point, but I was just following the rules Saturn set up. Putting popularity and uniqueness aside, Wolf has much more reason to be stay in Smash Brothers than Lucario does. Lucario's marketability only comes from his popularity and Wolf has been a main stay and rival to Fox in all of the main Star Fox games since his introduction (excluding Adventures, but still).

I mean, even Pikachu, who serves as the mascot of the franchise, isn't really that important to the games outside its own spin-offs.

Pikachu still has the anime to back it up, basically making it the most well known Pokémon. With or without popularity and importance to the games.

---

What an incredibly (forgive me) dumb claim.

We'll have to see about that.

I didn't say that actually. I'm implying Wolf's popularity and uniqueness doesn't make him an unlikely cut, yet people revolve ONLY on that when considering Wolf being cut and act like having this feature alone makes you an unlikely cut when so many other characters have it. I'm not saying we shouldn't consider popularity, we should consider there are more popular characters than Wolf and there should be other factors taken into consideration besides JUST having popularity and uniqueness at all.

What is this supposed to mean then?

Okay, just for a second let's put Wolf's uniqueness and requests aside and really think about this. If there HAD to be cuts do you honestly think Wolf isn't expendable compared to the rest of the roster? I mean who could be more expendable than Wolf. I can sure as heck tell you it's not Lucario, Ike, or Lucas. I mean Mewtwo himself was cut, Wolf is not that important compared to the rest of the roster and while he's not really expendable, he's the most expendable next to Snake. These are reasons for him to stay, but not over other characters.

A character's popularity is normally measured similarly to their requests. You didn't directly mention the term, but it was still suggested.
Lucario really only has popularity and requests on his side. Wolf is still an important figure in the Star Fox franchise. Lucario isn't nearly as important in the Pokémon franchise (whether it be in the games or anime).

What tutorial? They gave you a Lucario with a Mega Stone, there was a statue of him, and he is partners with a gym leader. It's about as miniscule as Mewtwo's role in the game which is just waiting for you to arrive.

One you never needed to use, a statue related to some background history of the Kalos Region what has little to nothing to do with the actual game, and is partners with a Gym Leader just like Misty's Psyduck and Brock's Geodude and Onix.
I suppose we should start realistically consider them too.

Now we're comparing Lucario to Carnivine? WTF?

You asked if all of the 700 Pokémon were insignificant, and I agreed with you by saying that some are. Carnivine is one of them.
Lucario has more significance when in comparison to most of the other Pokémon, but it isn't much when you don't consider the requests and popularity, you know?

---

I agree with Saturn and Golden, you cannot compare Lucario to other characters in different series as their importance to their series is weighted much differently.

Yes, I am aware of that. Popularity is mostly what divides the Pokémon characters apart. Which is something that I feel should still be a major part of the character selection.

Hell, once you get down to it, in the main games only Lucario, Mewtwo, and PT of the Smash cast have a role of any relative importance. Rather, to fully compare him, you have to do it compared to the other characters in his franchise and that's where he shines. Main game-wise, he's one of the few Pokémon to have a role in the plot, even if a bit minor, spinoff-wise, he's one of the more recurring characters and usually has a strong role in them, anime-wise, the movie and the main series has promoted him greatly (Movie 8, upcoming role in XY, numerous roles in DP and one in BW) and that's not getting into marketing.

Which is all in direct response to his popularity. I know that Lucario is one of Pokémon's big players with everything considered. I still support him and everything, but I don't think it's fair to say that Wolf would be the first to go when Pokémon has a lot less to lose with Lucario leaving. He's still a big player, but Wolf still means more to Star Fox than Lucario does to Pokémon (I think, anyways).

To say Lucario isn't important to his series is rather misguided, especially if you're trying to write him off as unimportant as Carnivine, who has no major role outside of being Jame's Pokémon for a season.

I wasn't writing him off as unimportant as Carnivine, I just said that there unimportant Pokémon out there. But I understand the confusion there.

I just don't think it's fair to say "Let's just forget about the character's popularity for a moment and compare him / her to other characters while still having their popularity in mind".
My entire argument is that without popularity (which was the rule Saturn set up), Lucario has more reasons to be cut before Wolf and that's coming from somebody who's very fond of Lucario as a Pokémon and Smash character.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Um...no? I really, LEGITIMATELY don't see how Marth's appearance hinders Chrom whatsoever. Didn't most people expect Marth to return REGARDLESS of whether or not Chrom was a newcomer? And Marth's moveset looks pretty much the same as it ever was (from the little we can see of it from screenshots).

There's PLENTY of reasonable doubt that this makes Chrom "unlikely" even one bit. For instance...the Japanese site promoting Marth's game as opposed to Awakening. Or the fact that Marth's sword looks nothing like Chrom's.

This isn't "gasping" at straws...it's nothing. There's no reason to doubt Chrom when we already expected Marth in the first place.

He's promoting awakening and the FE franchise as a whole, the stances he's taking in said screenshots looks awakening-esque to me. Doesn't matter if the sword is different, chrom takes up the same style as marth and ike, even in one of the cutscenes he does something similar to ike's aether. I doubt chrom because:

1. Same style and appearance as marth and ike, brings nothing new.
2. Ike isn't going anywhere.
3. Roy is the one of the most requested characters in japan, and was planned for brawl if it wasn't for time constraints.

It makes sense to me to include those 3, they all come from different regions, systems, and have different fighting styles.
Just because it saved the franchise doesn't mean were getting an awakening character, FE 7 sold really well yet we got a AT.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I'm not denying any of that.

But I'm not convinced that KI itself needs another character just because of Kid Icarus Uprising. It works, but Pit's doing a fine job on his own using new gear introduced from that game.

I have to agree, but I still can't take her off my roster. I feel attached to her.

Good and sensible points, though. But I will never be able to bring myself to take her off my roster.

 

[?????????????]

He's promoting awakening and the FE franchise as a whole, the stances he's taking in said screenshots looks awakening-esque to me. Doesn't matter if the sword is different, chrom takes up the same style as marth and ike, even in one of the cutscenes he does something similar to ike's aether. I doubt chrom because:

1. Same style and appearance as marth and ike, brings nothing new.
2. Ike isn't going anywhere.
3. Roy is the one of the most requested characters in japan, and was planned for brawl if it wasn't for time constraints.

It makes sense to me to include those 3, they all come from different regions, systems, and have different fighting styles.
Just because it saved the franchise doesn't mean were getting an awakening character, FE 7 sold really well yet we got a AT.

1. Falco and Wolf. Lucas. Toon Link.
2. Mewtwo went somewhere
3. Mewtwo again. Lucario, the newer promotion, was picked over the classic. Same for Roy vs. Ike, really.

Chrom's not a shoe-in, and he never has been. But you can't write him off. He's still entirely AND reasonably possible.

 

[Arcanir]

1. Falco and Wolf
2. Mewtwo went somewhere
3. Mewtwo again. Lucario, the newer promotion, was picked over the classic. Same for Roy vs. Ike, really.

Chrom's not a shoe-in, and he never has been. But you can't write him off.

When will this logic die?

 

[TumblrFamous]

He's promoting awakening and the FE franchise as a whole, the stances he's taking in said screenshots looks awakening-esque to me. Doesn't matter if the sword is different, chrom takes up the same style as marth and ike, even in one of the cutscenes he does something similar to ike's aether. I doubt chrom because:

1. Same style and appearance as marth and ike, brings nothing new.
2. Ike isn't going anywhere.
3. Roy is the one of the most requested characters in japan, and was planned for brawl if it wasn't for time constraints.

It makes sense to me to include those 3, they all come from different regions, systems, and have different fighting styles.
Just because it saved the franchise doesn't mean were getting an awakening character, FE 7 sold really well yet we got a AT.

I just wanna say that I would take Roy over Chrom, simply out of personal preference. Both are fine choices, really, and both have great shots to be the second (or probably third if Ike returns) rep for FE.

 

[?????????????]

When will this logic die?

I'm not saying "Lucario replaced Mewtwo." I AM saying "Lucario is in Brawl and Mewtwo is NOT."

That's fact.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I guess I'll make my own.
Smash 64: Pikachu and Meowth
Melee: Pikachu, Meowth, and Mewtwo
Brawl: Pikachu, Meowth, Mewtwo, and Lucario
SSB4: Pikachu, Meowth, Mewtwo, Lucario, and the Pokemon Trainer

 

[Knight Dude]

So what's going on here now?

 

[TumblrFamous]

So what's going on here now?

Roy/Chrom, and how you would represent the Pokemon franchise in all 4 games.

 

[Arcanir]

I'm not saying "Lucario replaced Mewtwo." I AM saying "Lucario is in Brawl and Mewtwo is NOT."

That's fact.

Sorry, I completely misinterpreted what you meant. Usually that's followed by that replacement theory so I overstepped the line and assumed.

 

[?????????????]

That is not what happened, we have data showing that Mewtwo and Roy were developed alongside Lucario and Ike, you can't replace something you were intended to be playable alongside.

Dear lord. This is just a battle of terminology.

Whether of not you want to use the word "replaced," Lucario and Ike are playable in Brawl, and Mewtwo and Roy are not. This means that Lucario and Ike, NEWER characters, were prioritized over Mewtwo and Roy, more classic iconic characters.

Pretty sure that defines "replaced," however you want to look at it.

It's like how the word "reps" has been tabooed here. It's terminology interchangeable with the word "characters".

 

[XStarWarriorX]

1. Falco and Wolf. Lucas. Toon Link.
2. Mewtwo went somewhere
3. Mewtwo again. Lucario, the newer promotion, was picked over the classic. Same for Roy vs. Ike, really.

Chrom's not a shoe-in, and he never has been. But you can't write him off. He's still entirely AND reasonably possible.

2 and 3 who is the pokemon that people are saying is coming back? oh yeah mewtwo, and he would have stayed if it wasn't for the constant delaying that was brawl, if anyone was legitimately "cut" it was pichu and doc/young link.

As for the first thing at least he was trying to differentiate falco, and wolf found himself in a roy situation. I don't think sakurai likes to cut characters, and he's probably going to bring some melee characters back. I write him off because I seriously don't see him replacing ike, and roy would probably be put back in. If there was a smash 6 and no new FE games he'd have a high chance, but for this installment I don't see him getting in. imo

 

[?????????????]

Sorry, I completely misinterpreted what you meant. Usually that's followed by that replacement theory so I overstepped the line and assumed.

That's okay.

...I'm still leaving my other post up though.

 

[Arcanir]

Dear lord. This is just a battle of terminology.

Whether of not you want to use the word "replaced," Lucario and Ike are playable in Brawl, and Mewtwo and Roy are not. This means that Lucario and Ike, NEWER characters, were prioritized over Mewtwo and Roy, more classic iconic characters.

Pretty sure that defines "replaced," however you want to look at it.

It's like how the word "reps" has been tabooed here. It's terminology interchangeable with the word "characters".

No, no and no.

If I was working alongside someone for a majority of a project and then got kicked off on no fault of my co-worker, he did not replace me, I just got kicked off. You can't replace what was intended to be in alongside you, otherwise PT is no more or less guilty by that logic.

That's okay.

...I'm still leaving my other post up though.

We really need to stop posting inbetween responses.

 

[?????????????]

2 and 3 who is the pokemon that people are saying is coming back? oh yeah mewtwo, and he would have stayed if it wasn't for the constant delaying that was brawl, if anyone was legitimately "cut" it was pichu and doc/young link.

As for the first thing at least he was trying to differentiate falco, and wolf found himself in a roy situation. I don't think sakurai likes to cut characters, and he's probably going to bring some melee characters back. I write him off because I seriously don't see him replacing ike, and roy would probably be put back in. If there was a smash 6 and no new FE games he'd have a high chance, but for this installment I don't see him getting in. imo

Okay. BUT...

Mewtwo has a good reason to return. All the promotion, movie, two mega evolutions...

What has Roy done since getting cut that gives him ANY edge over Chrom?

 

[Hotfeet444]

Wait a second...has it occurred to anyone that perhaps Mewtwo and Roy were not low priority...but intended to be the last unlockable characters in the game, therefore were in place to design last of all the characters planned overall? I mean it would fit, Mewtwo and Roy are right after Wolf and they do have final unlockable material in them.

In other words, Mewtwo, Roy and most likely Dr. Mario were intended to be in the game as your final unlockable trio, but were cut out. We already have proof that Mewtwo was going to be involved in the Subspace Emissary, perhaps they were intended and the inclusion of Toon Link, Jigglypuff and Wolf overtook them since they were easier to program, who knows? But I think there's a reason they were the specific ones cut out of Brawl, and I think this is it. The order in which they're included into the data found on Brawl's disc fits my idea, but then again, I'm not Sakurai so I can't confirm this.

 

[?????????????]

No, no and no.

If I was working alongside someone for a majority of a project and then got kicked off on no fault of my co-worker, he did not replace me, I just got kicked off. You can't replace what was intended to be in alongside you, otherwise PT is no more or less guilty by that logic.

Okay. BUT...

It still means that Lucario was a bigger priority than Mewtwo.

For your example, it's like...a new co-worker got hired, and you've been working there already, and AFTER this co-worker has started working there too, you got fired. Did you get replaced?

Well...that's up to you.

 

[TumblrFamous]

2 and 3 who is the pokemon that people are saying is coming back? oh yeah mewtwo, and he would have stayed if it wasn't for the constant delaying that was brawl, if anyone was legitimately "cut" it was pichu and doc/young link.

As for the first thing at least he was trying to differentiate falco, and wolf found himself in a roy situation. I don't think sakurai likes to cut characters, and he's probably going to bring some melee characters back. I write him off because I seriously don't see him replacing ike, and roy would probably be put back in. If there was a smash 6 and no new FE games he'd have a high chance, but for this installment I don't see him getting in. imo

Really? Chrom has little chance?

I really doubt that. I mean, I can agree that I feel like Roy is more likely, but he certainly has some competition. I mean, a lot of people also know who Chrom is. He's just as important to Fire Emblem. Not because "Awakening saved the franchise", but as a whole, Chrom is remembered.

To say he has little chance is absurd.

 

[Arcanir]

Okay. BUT...

It still means that Lucario was a bigger priority than Mewtwo.

For your example, it's like...a new co-worker got hired, and you've been working there already, and AFTER this co-worker has started working there too, you got fired. Did you get replaced?

Well...that's up to you.

No I didn't, he didn't replace me because said new co-worker was alongside me up until my leave, which going by data was probably up until the last leg of the project. It's not by his fault or choice, I just got booted and he didn't.

I'll agree that Lucario was higher priority, but he did not replace anyone because he was never intended to replace anyone. Mewtwo was a unfortunate victim of circumstance, Lucario was the new guy who got the blunt of the unwarranted insults.

 

[Seraphim.]

Roy and Chrom have equal chances and both would be good picks to get in.

 

[?????????????]

No I didn't, he didn't replace me because said new co-worker was alongside me up until my leave, which going by data was probably up until the last leg of the project.

I'll agree that Lucario was higher priority, but he did not replace anyone because he was never intended to replace anyone.

That's true and fair enough.

 

[TumblrFamous]

No I didn't, he didn't replace me because said new co-worker was alongside me up until my leave, which going by data was probably up until the last leg of the project.

I'll agree that Lucario was higher priority, but he did not replace anyone because he was never intended to replace anyone.

He never said Lucario replaced anyone. I'm pretty sure we all know the reason: they were meant to be in Smash together, but Mewtwo was kept out due to time constraints. Therefore, Lucario merely got in over Mewtwo, not replace him.

I'm pretty sure he knows that. Unless I'm reading it wrong...

 

[BKupa666]

Do you guys have real hopes for King K Rool? new DKC games had discard the kremlings (which is good for me, they where boring after 3 games) and bowser was redesigned, which means we already have a new lizard king coming.

Well, my hope certainly isn't false. I think the opinion that the Kremlings got boring is a terrible one, because they're one of the few Nintendo enemy groups that constantly innovates, both attack and appearance wise. I'll also point out that Bowser is still largely the same; he currently has a new dash, new F-Smash, and new aerial. That hardly counts as "a new lizard king," and K. Rool is way different anyway.

Not that I'm invested in the Lucario-Mewtwo discussion much, but I don't think it's fair to say Lucario replaced Mewtwo when Mewtwo's exclusion had nothing to do with Lucario's inclusion. By the logic that Lucario was prioritized higher thus it's an arguable replacement, you may as well claim that Brawl's entire roster replaced Mewtwo. The horrid "reps" idea certainly had nothing to do with it when both were intended to coexist.

 

[?????????????]

Well now...

I do believe we are all saying the same thing with different words.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Okay. BUT...

Mewtwo has a good reason to return. All the promotion, movie, two mega evolutions...

What has Roy done since getting cut that gives him ANY edge over Chrom?

Game and watch, r.o.b., etc etc.

First off roy was in melee that should be enough (he wasn't cut he would have been in brawl but delays happened), chrom isn't even in a smash game yet, second you have to understand that pokemon is a another beast compared to FE, roy may not have all that chrom has, but sakurai likes old characters and reviving franchises, he doesn't always take the popularity/recency thing into account. If there was an FE 6 remake that could bode well for him. But I would assume he would take the easy route and rework a character like roy instead of starting a character from scratch who is a marth like clone to begin with. Roy had popularity since melee, and its still there, same with mewtwo, chrom is only popular because he's recent, if there was a new FE game i bet he'd be an afterthought.

 

[Arcanir]

He never said Lucario replaced anyone. I'm pretty sure we all know the reason: they were meant to be in Smash together, but Mewtwo was kept out due to time constraints. Therefore, Lucario merely got in over Mewtwo, not replace him.

I'm pretty sure he knows that. Unless I'm reading it wrong...

Unless I'm also misreading, he did say that technically:

Dear lord. This is just a battle of terminology.

Whether of not you want to use the word "replaced," Lucario and Ike are playable in Brawl, and Mewtwo and Roy are not. This means that Lucario and Ike, NEWER characters, were prioritized over Mewtwo and Roy, more classic iconic characters.

Pretty sure that defines "replaced," however you want to look at it.

Of course, this is if I'm reading it correctly, in which case I apologize if I'm not.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Unless I'm also misreading, he did say that technically Lucario did:



Of course, this is if I'm reading it correctly, in which case I apologize Pizzadudemanguy if I'm not.

Oh.... yeah that's just out-prioritization.

 

[?????????????]

First off roy was in melee that should be enough (he wasn't cut he would have been in brawl but delays happened)

Why should that be enough? Should I expect any incomplete character from Brawl to return? This doesn't change the fact that Chrom has had a game since Brawl, and Roy has not.

chrom isn't even in a smash game yet

Um...duh? Because he wasn't created yet? Should I have never expected Lucas or Lucario because they didn't exist yet?

second you have to understand that pokemon is a another beast compared to FE, roy may not have all that chrom has, but sakurai likes old characters and reviving franchises, he doesn't always take the popularity/recency thing into account.

Isn't the argument for Roy the FACT that he's popular?

If there was an FE 6 remake that could bode well for him.

Great! Tell me when that exists.

But I would assume he would take the easy route and rework a character like roy instead of starting a character from scratch who is a marth like clone to begin with.

How is this any easier? They would BOTH be made from scratch, seeing as Roy was a clone in melee. Chrom doesn't even fight similarly to Marth in Awakening; they're different classes.

Roy had popularity since melee, and its still there, same with mewtwo, chrom is only popular because he's recent, if there was a new FE game i bet he'd be an afterthought.

No. Just no. Chrom is not only popular because he's recent.

Did you ever think that MAYBE people actually like Chrom himself? And that MAYBE there's people that like Chrom as a character more than Roy? Because I do.

Once again, tell me when a new FE game comes out. Because that hasn't happened yet, and Chrom is standing right there.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Why should that be enough? Should I expect any incomplete character from Brawl to return? This doesn't change the fact that Chrom has had a game since Brawl, and Roy has not.


Um...duh? Because he wasn't created yet? Should I have never expected Lucas or Lucario because they didn't exist yet?


Isn't the argument for Roy the FACT that he's popular?


Great! Tell me when that exists.


How is this any easier? They would BOTH be made from scratch, seeing as Roy was a clone in melee. Chrom doesn't even fight similarly to Marth in Awakening; they're different classes.



No. Just no. Chrom is not only popular because he's recent.

Did you ever think that MAYBE people actually like Chrom himself? And that MAYBE there's people that like Chrom as a character more than Roy? Because I do.

Once again, tell me when a new FE game comes out. Because that hasn't happened yet, and Chrom is standing right there.

...I like Chrom as a character too. At this point, if that "remake" isn't revealed soon, then it won't even likely apply to Smash Bros.

 

[?????????????]

Oh.... yeah that's just out-prioritization.

Of course, this is if I'm reading it correctly, in which case I apologize if I'm not.

Ah, sorry. I was trying to imply that "out-prioritizaion" could be synonomous to "replacement." There's a technical difference, but (I hope) the point comes across... to not jump because of taboo terminology.

Like "reps" being synonomous with "characters." I know there's a difference, but I use the two interchangeable to say what I mean. Cause it's an easy abbreviation.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'd have to agree that a character already being in Smash Bros. isn't enough on its own to bring that character back. The character in question hasn't done too much since his appearance, not to mention that he got in partially because of the same reasons that Chrom has going for him.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Roy is popular because of Melee and thus was most people's first introduction to Fire Emblem.
Chrom is popular because he's a lot of people's first lord, since Awakening was a way for newcomers to get into the series.

These two are the two most likely candidates at this point, with Roy's insane popularity, with his and Mewtwo's removal as the two biggest complaints about Brawl, and Chrom with his shiny new game that saved the series.

I lean more towards the way of the ph1r3 since I feel like being introduced to the series was more important to me and the west than the latest game, but I can understand why people would side with Chrom, especially if he's their first lead.

If only they were more different, and Roy had made the cut in Brawl. We could agree to enjoy both. Alas; fight to the death time.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Wait a second...has it occurred to anyone that perhaps Mewtwo and Roy were not low priority...but intended to be the last unlockable characters in the game, therefore were in place to design last of all the characters planned overall? I mean it would fit, Mewtwo and Roy are right after Wolf and they do have final unlockable material in them.

In other words, Mewtwo, Roy and most likely Dr. Mario were intended to be in the game as your final unlockable trio, but were cut out. We already have proof that Mewtwo was going to be involved in the Subspace Emissary, perhaps they were intended and the inclusion of Toon Link, Jigglypuff and Wolf overtook them since they were easier to program, who knows? But I think there's a reason they were the specific ones cut out of Brawl, and I think this is it. The order in which they're included into the data found on Brawl's disc fits my idea, but then again, I'm not Sakurai so I can't confirm this.

Just posting this again as I think it has some relevance to the topic at hand. I don't think they were out-prioritized, I think they were intentionally held back to be the final unlocks of the game. This would put the roster at 38 characters. Now I know what you're thinking...the roster as it is now wouldn't fit that number well...well...what if the roster was intended to look like that of the Melee roster?

 

[?????????????]

...with the Lucario vs. Mewtwo thing, I think we all know they were both planned. They could have both happened. Ignoring them as "Pokemon characters" and thinking of them as just "SSB characters," there was not a replacement per se, but a character unfinished in favor of other characters.

...There's something that makes me question that though.

If Lucario and Mewtwo WERE both planned...that means the final roster could have had more Pokemon characters than Mario characters. Now that's not too strange I suppose...but it does strike me as odd. It does make me wonder IF Mewtwo and Lucario were both planned to be in simultaneously. Cause...that isn't something that we know for 100% certain.

Or maybe Dr. Mario was more developed than we knew

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Why should that be enough? Should I expect any incomplete character from Brawl to return? This doesn't change the fact that Chrom has had a game since Brawl, and Roy has not.






No. Just no. Chrom is not only popular because he's recent.

Did you ever think that MAYBE people actually like Chrom himself? And that MAYBE there's people that like Chrom as a character more than Roy? Because I do.

Once again, tell me when a new FE game comes out. Because that hasn't happened yet, and Chrom is standing right there.

Its nice that your getting worked up about this i dunno why, i'm just stating my opinions.

If roy was in brawl i would say that chrom had a high chance.

But he isn't and I say roy beats him out, he's a mix of ike and marth i'd rather see roy utilize his sword of seals to his full potential than seeing something semi clone ish.

FYI: having a recent game doesn't doesn't qualify you to be in smash, paper mario had a recent game but are we getting paper mario? No. We'll see what happens but imo I don't think its going to be chrom, sure if i'm wrong your gonna rub it in, but if roy's in i'm not gonna say nothing, its best to end this now because I see that your an eager fan of chrom and will continue this forever, i'm not even a fan of roy but it makes more sense to me to pick roy instead of chrom for obvious reasons.

1. He's more of a clone than roy is, roy was put in as a clone because sakurai wanted too, melee was really rushed.
2. The only thing going for him is that he's recent, as you can tell from some reveals, recency means nothing.
3. Sword of seals>some spear.
4. This is just an opinion, but I think he's going to bring roy back due to the fact he was planned for brawl, he's a probable high priority this time around, because they actually have time to work on his exciting moveset.

@jones, you could say the same for snake. yet he's going to be in.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

...with the Lucario vs. Mewtwo thing, I think we all know they were both planned. They could have both happened. Ignoring them as "Pokemon characters" and thinking of them as just "SSB characters," there was not a replacement per se, but a character unfinished in favor of other characters.

...There's something that makes me question that though.

If Lucario and Mewtwo WERE both planned...that means the final roster could have had more Pokemon characters than Mario characters. Now that's not too strange I suppose...but it does strike me as odd. It does make me wonder IF Mewtwo and Lucario were both planned to be in simultaneously. Cause...that isn't something that we know for 100% certain.

Or maybe Dr. Mario was more developed than we knew

Time for me to be that douchebag.

'HEY TECHNICALLY SAKURAI SEZ THE ROSTER IS TURDY NEIN CHARACTERS. SO UR WRONG MANG. POKEMANZ ALREDY HAD MOAR CHARACTARDS!!11!!"

Alright i'm done.

1. He's more of a clone than roy is, roy was put in as a clone because sakurai wanted too, melee was really rushed.
2. The only thing going for him is that he's recent, as you can tell from some reveals, recency means nothing.
3. Sword of seals>some spear.
4. This is just an opinion, but I think he's going to bring roy back due to the fact he was planned for brawl, he's a probable high priority this time around, because they actually have time to work on his exciting moveset.

I have a problem with this. If you aren't meaning to come across as biased, that's fine. But it sure looks like you are.

1. You have no way to say that Chrom is a clone at this point. There really is no reason to say that about Chrom when Roy was legitimately a clone of Marth.
2. Again, ignoring the popularity that Chrom has.
3. Chrom has the Falchion, can use fire just like Roy can, has access to several different weapons...etc...
4. Time will tell, but at this point there is no way of knowing. Why would he of all characters be high priority, and how do we know his moveset will be "exciting"?

I'm a big advocate of both characters, but if you're going to give reasons for a character, be fair about it.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Just posting this again as I think it has some relevance to the topic at hand. I don't think they were out-prioritized, I think they were intentionally held back to be the final unlocks of the game. This would put the roster at 38 characters. Now I know what you're thinking...the roster as it is now wouldn't fit that number well...well...what if the roster was intended to look like that of the Melee roster?

Could you tell me what proof we have that Mewtwo was going to be in Subspace Emissary?