Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[APC99]

Just saying, Scrooge McDuck and Midna both have potential, but are in no way likely to be in a Smash game at all.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I imagine when you start playing as the Mii for the first time, he will have the most basic moveset in the game. But as you play more of the Mii you gain rewards or experience to use for new attacks for the Mii. It might help the player pick their best style of fighting.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Miis should serve as the customizable characters of the game, otherwise they serve no purpose because they are pretty bland.

You don't have to customize them for them to use gear from Wii Sports, Wii Party, Wii Party U, Wii Fit U, Pilot Wings Resort, Wii Sports Resort, and StreetPass Plaza.

I'd say they are one of the most unique characters available.

Why does a Mii have to be Bland,
It could use sports stuff,
Wii Party stuff
Wii play stuff,
There is so much to pull moves from!

What he said

 

[Mega Bidoof]

That's exactly what happens when you have ill-informed, out-of-their-expertise, non-video-game related websites post anything about Super Smash Brothers.
It makes me nostalgically long for Examiner.com and Latino Post.


Actually, Latino Post might be even worse. They once desired a de-confirmation of Mr. Game & Watch... all while aspiring confirmations for Midna and Scrooge McDuck.

I once saw this website comment on a screenshot Sakurai took from an angle.
They thought it was hinting at a story mode,
Note this was posted a month after Sakurai said no story mode.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

Just saying, Scrooge McDuck and Midna both have potential, but are in no way likely to be in a Smash game at all.

actually I was pointing more towards Mr.G&W than those two, but you still get my point

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Miis should serve as the customizable characters of the game, otherwise they serve no purpose because they are pretty bland.

They should be customizable in terms of weight, floatyness, etc., but not TOO customizable as to take away uniqueness from the other fighters. (imagine having Miis with Mario and Link's movesets...)

The special moves and such could be customized slightly, like increasing the power or priority of a move at the cost of lag frames or speed, or increasing the range of a move at the cost of something else...y'know, to keep things in balance.

-----

 

[Mega Bidoof]

What he said

I forgot about Pilotwings!
That adds even more moves to the mix!

 

[APC99]

I imagine when you start playing as the Mii for the first time, he will have the most basic moveset in the game. But as you play more of the Mii you gain rewards or experience to use for new attacks for the Mii. It might help the player pick their best style of fighting.

I'm thinking his moves are like Ryu in Crusade:

Standard: Projectile.
Side: Dash.
Up: Uppercut.
Down: Counter.


As you go on, more powers, weapons, armor, equipment, body changes, are available. Eventually, you can become"Cheap Man" and make Meta Knight seem like Pichu.

 

[BluePikmin11]

You don't have to customize them for them to use gear from Wii Sports, Wii Party, Wii Party U, Wii Fit U, Pilot Wings Resort, Wii Sports Resort, and StreetPass Plaza.

I'd say they are one of the most unique characters available.



What he said

Then who would serve as the customizable character?
Obviously, Miis fit the role perfectly.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

They should be customizable in terms of weight, floatyness, etc., but not TOO customizable as to take away uniqueness from the other fighters. (imagine having Miis with Mario and Link's movesets...)

That's the promotion I use most for Mii customization. Being able to wear armor to be heavier/stronger or adding wings so you can jump more often. Non-Move related traits.

 

[Bowserlick]

Little Mac Moveset

B: Like Marth's, but with a fist
Down B: Like Marth's, but counters with fist
Toward B: Like Marth's, but with fists
Up B: Like Marth's, but with a fist

 

[shinhed-echi]

I don't like the idea of Mii simply because I had enough "Avatar character" with Villager.

Although I know he could get a pretty fun moveset, and it's pretty iconic to Nintendo.
That still doesn't stop me from disliking the idea, though. Like I said, I had enough with Villager (and I don't exactly love that character either, lol)

Still, if it takes Mii to confirm Pacman and especially Little Mac, then bring the sucka aboard. I don't mind online scrubs who'll dare gang up on me.

 

[TumblrFamous]

They should be customizable in terms of weight, floatyness, etc., but not TOO customizable as to take away uniqueness from the other fighters. (imagine having Miis with Mario and Link's movesets...)

The special moves and such could be customized slightly, like increasing the power or priority of a move at the cost of lag frames or speed, or increasing the range of a move at the cost of something else...y'know, to keep things in balance.

-----

I agree with your idea, but I don't know if they would go as far into priority/frames/etc. I imagine they would just be like character builds.

 

[APC99]

actually I was pointing more towards Mr.G&W than those two, but you still get my point

Oh, my fault. Misunderstood you. I wouldn't want to see Game and Watch leave either.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Miis are still Nintendo characters. Why does having this one Nintendo character ruin Smash Brothers? Because you can edit it to look like something?

Why would people play as Miis 50% of the time? It's not like Mario Kart where playing as your Mii has almost no difference than playing as a character. They have their own move sets and they'll get tired of using the same one.

I just explained all of that in the paragraph above. Don't even talk to me about this if you're immediately going to ignore what I said.

Like, of all the things you and I can argue about, this is one of the few I have zero tolerance for. I don't care if you think I'm a grump about this, don't give me bull****.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Little Mac Moveset

B: Like Marth's, but with a fist
Down B: Like Marth's, but counters with fist
Toward B: Like Marth's, but with fists
Up B: Like Marth's, but with a fist

Did you just steal my Little Mac clone move set? I think you did.

Then who would serve as the customizable character?
Obviously, Miis fit the role perfectly.

You don't have to customize moves. Being able to wear armor to be heavier/stronger or adding wings so you can jump more often. Non-Move related traits

 

[LoneKonWolf]

and the more we talk about the mii, the more I suddenly despise him

 

[Bowserlick]

I don't know how anyone else would come up with that moveset, it sweats originality.

 

[Arcanir]

Tell that to the PokéBeach "rumor" back in February that has been spot-on with everything it said aside from a few honest mistakes (such as labeling Psychic as a weakness of Fairy instead of Poison and referring to Mewtwo's "X exclusive form" as more Mew-like in design while the "Y exclusive form" (the one already known about) being more Mewtwo-like, in which the opposite was true) and deliberately false information (Switching Chesnaught's and Greninja's secondary Types after saying the correct ones to keep Nintendo off his trail.)

So yeah, there's no doubt in my mind the source the leaker got the character list from was holding on to inside information. The only thing I question is whether or not the part that didn't come true (Little Mac, Miis, Pac-Man at E3) was an honest mistake (the source thought they were being revealed at E3, but they were really being saved for later) or deliberately false information (the source didn't hear anything about them but listed them anyway regardless of whether or not they are in the game in order to get the actual leak of Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer under Nintendo's radar.)

I choose to believe the former.

Except the Pokebeach leaker was upfront about his duties at Nintendo and gave a slew of information that gradually proved himself. Hell, even at its initial unveiling it got the names of the four Pokemon right right off the bat so there was some reason to believe the rumor from the start. This leaker is being very quiet and got a notable detail wrong right off the bat, so there's room for reasonable doubt at the moment. He could be proven right soon enough of course about the characters themselves, but it's still understandable why some may still be skeptical of this for the time being.

Also, your second point brings up something I've been thinking about, those three are pretty much the 'safe' candidates for the roster. Pac-man is a popular choice for Namco, Little Mac is a very popular choice in general and Mii's, like them or not, are from a popular series belonging to Nintendo. So reasonably, there is that possibility that he threw them in because they were the safe choices he could make without being completely wrong.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Then Sakurai is a liar if there is no customization.

 

[APC99]

Little Mac Moveset

B: Like Marth's, but with a fist
Down B: Like Marth's, but counters with fist
Toward B: Like Marth's, but with fists
Up B: Like Marth's, but with a fist

I sense skepticism.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

That's the promotion I use most for Mii customization. Being able to wear armor to be heavier/stronger or adding wings so you can jump more often. Non-Move related traits.

For some reason, I always wanted a mii to have a customizable moveset, where you would mix moves from other characters
But the catch is that all the moves would have to be from the same class,
Fighter, Beast, Swordsman, Technician, or Magician
For example, you can mix Marth's and Link's moveset
Or Bowser and Charizard's moveset
But you can't mix Mario and Link's
Or Bowser and Villager's
Though now I think having its own moveset would be likely. Ad maybe for the better.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Rebellious Treecko & Bowserlick be stealing my ideas.

I just explained all of that in the paragraph above. Don't even talk to me about this if you're immediately going to ignore what I said.

Like, of all the things you and I can argue about, this is one of the few I have zero tolerance for. I don't care if you think I'm a grump about this, don't give me bull****.

If you mean to say you already counter argued this point, I disagree.a

and the more we talk about the mii, the more I suddenly despise him

"HATERS GONNA HATE..."

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Tell that to the PokéBeach "rumor" back in February that has been spot-on with everything it said aside from a few honest mistakes (such as labeling Psychic as a weakness of Fairy instead of Poison and referring to Mewtwo's "X exclusive form" as more Mew-like in design while the "Y exclusive form" (the one already known about) being more Mewtwo-like, in which the opposite was true) and deliberately false information (Switching Chesnaught's and Greninja's secondary Types after saying the correct ones to keep Nintendo off his trail.)

So yeah, there's no doubt in my mind the source the leaker got the character list from was holding on to inside information. The only thing I question is whether or not the part that didn't come true (Little Mac, Miis, Pac-Man at E3) was an honest mistake (the source thought they were being revealed at E3, but they were really being saved for later) or deliberately false information (the source didn't hear anything about them but listed them anyway regardless of whether or not they are in the game in order to get the actual leak of Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer under Nintendo's radar.)

I choose to believe the former.

Could I have the source to this rumor?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't know how anyone else would come up with that moveset, it sweats originality.

I came up with it years ago and posted it months ago.

 

[Bowserlick]

Little Mac's Final Smash could be charging with a fist. Instantly hits opponent offscreen and a big K.O flashes over the stage. And an announcer screams "Knock out!"

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

If you mean to say you already counter argued this point, I disagree.a

I mean to say you didn't even acknowledge my initial argument.

Again. Don't start. If you really have to ask why I'm being like this, you've got a million other people nearby to answer that for you.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Anybody who ever made the comparison that Little Mac could only punch, just like Marth could only use his sword came up with it.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Rebellious Treecko & Bowserlick be stealing my ideas.

Um....no?

I wasn't aware.

-----

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I mean to say you didn't even acknowledge my initial argument.

You're argument was that people will say "Oh, Miis are Me! I'll play dem most!"

 

[Louie G.]

If you guys are going to make fun of Little Mac, I won't stand for it.
I love Punch Out!! more than almost any game out there. It's such an amazing, unique, fun, and somewhat addictive game.
That being said, I feel strongly about Mac being in SSB4. He arguably deserves the spot more than any other potential newcomer.
Yep, more than King K. Rool, Ridley, AND Palutena. Come at me.
Whether Little Mac's moveset would be "interesting" or not is debatable, but I think Sakurai could easily make it work. And if you guys want a good moveset I have one I could provide.
So don't go making fun of Mac Baby, or I'll start bashing on your wants.
(I'm looking at you, Starfy...)

 

[TumblrFamous]

Could I have the source to this rumor?

There's really no need for a link. Some user on neogaf said that "Megaman, the lady from wii fit, the animal crossing guy, pac-man, little Mac, and Miis" are to be shown at e3.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Anybody who ever made the comparison that Little Mac could only punch, just like Marth could only use his sword came up with it.

What exactly does Little Mac do besides that?

 

[BluePikmin11]

What exactly does Little Mac do besides that?

He literally is just a boxer, so punching is basically his moveset.
So he would sorta be like Marth, only more combo-oriented.

 

[kingmario92]

You're argument was that people will say "Oh, Miis are Me! I'll play dem most!"

You know that's going to happen with at least a few people. Hopefully the Miis aren't overused online like in Mario Kart Wii & 7 (I f***ing hope not at least)

 

[Mega Bidoof]

"Oh, Miis are Me! I'll play dem most!"

Casuals in a nutshell.

 

[Morbi]

The others, I get (aside from Kamek; he's not exactly retro). But why do people bring up Star Man when Fighter Hayabusa was the "main" character of Pro Wrestling?
Is there something I don't know about in regards to him?


No, it's there. It's ****ing been there since I edited it INTO the post. The post originally DID NOT HAVE IT.
And people siding with me has nothing to do with them being my friends. If they feel I'm spouting off nonsense, they won't hesitate to call me out on it, some with harsher remarks than others (such as Habanero and JohnKnight). If they're siding with me, it means they agree with what I'm saying.
As for that "only point I was trying to make", quit the bull****. The whole case has been an attempt to defend how the "retro" pattern is valid logic for this upcoming game thinly disguised as defending the concept of "patterns exist!".


You didn't get why the "2 retros" argument was killed, and you still don't. It's killed because only one "retro" character was added in Melee, breaking the conceived "pattern". The Game & Watch franchise was too relevant at the time to have Mr. Game & Watch be counted as a "retro revival".

That is why I said there is no pattern. Because the "established" one doesn't exist.

It doesn't help that the "logic" behind the pattern is that "Sakurai added 2 retros in both Melee and Brawl, so we're likely going to get 2 retros in Smash 4 too!", logic you yourself spouted prior to my initial post on the matter.


Logic which makes the assumption that Sakurai added all those "retros" for the sake of being retro, so a "pattern" is made to show how it's "going to happen again".
Really, you scoff at my "mustache and swollen nose" satire pattern, but it's just as baseless as the 2 retro pattern logic yet more logical given that it's a "pattern" that spans through all 3 previous Smash titles as opposed to just the last two (and it's a pattern that actually exists since there really HAS been at least one character with a swollen nose and mustache added to each game; ).

Moral of the story; just because there's a "pattern" of coincidences (which there wasn't in this case) doesn't mean it's going to continue for the sake of continuing the pattern.



You ignored my edit, yet you claim to agree with it. If that was the case, you wouldn't have continued the argument.
You also claim my argument was "instantly insufficient", yet the additional information was "unnecessary". So, my argument was "not enough", yet it "didn't need" the additional information. Contradictory much?


Oooh. You edited. Clearly you were removing logical fallacies!

I understand that you extremely adamant about your opinion, that is a good thing. However, once you start dismissing that notion that a pattern exists arbitrarily... there is a problem. About the logical fallacy thing, I quoted your post, it was there. I respond and reread what you wrote, it was gone. It was most likely a mistake on my part, I am not sure why you would fallaciously assert the same thing over and over again. So that is most likely a mistake on my part. So I apologize for that. It seemed like it at the time.

However, people agreeing with you are literally unintelligent. I will just call it like it is. If you dismiss the premise that a pattern can be two circumstantial events, you do not know what a pattern is. If you cannot look past your own perspective and admit that a pattern is subjective and exists (regardless of its relevance or significance) you are simply ignorant. There IS a pattern, I am not asserting that you have to assume it is objective and that there are going to be 2 retros. I am just stating the overt and obvious. That is it, that is why I can't take you seriously.

Moral of the story; that was what I was getting at. I mentioned that notion a plethora of times. I was very concise about it.

As for your edit... I don't understand why you cant see that this is a devils advocate post. I do not necessarily believe that Sakurai intentionally created a pattern. However, a pattern was established. To question that, would be to question my sanity. That doesn't mean I think 2 retros will be in Smash 4. That doesn't mean that I think Sakurai is going to stick to the pattern. That doesn't mean that Sakurai even knows that a pattern exists. It just means that there IS a pattern.

You still do not understand the premise of my argument. You cannot kill the notion that there was a pattern unless Sakurai blatantly dismisses the premise that he will use the same formula. I never alluded to retros being added for retros sake, that is another straw man fallacy. You already KNOW that they are implied retros. Not to mention I personally don't even call the latter half retro characters. So there is NO way you defeated that argument (without the use of a straw man).

Just as a final note, because that appears to be all that you read. I agree with you; however, I can put my opinion aside for objective fact (there is a pattern). What we do with that is up to our discretion, it is your prerogative to believe it is bull****, and it is up to the guy I was defending to believe what he wants to believe. You have no evidence to support your claim, just opinion based on evidence (which is circumstantial evidence or empirical evidence at best).

Not to mention Sakurai already mentioned he would be adding a retro character (paraphrasing). So we are literally arguing about whether or not he will push the boundaries and add a second. That is what it boils down to. I don't think it was worth it. It is similar to trying to convince a religious person that nothing spiritual exists, it is impossible. They will use their own source material as fact, and deny the very sciences that they claim God created. Those are just circular as can be. So is this, I have stated my main point in almost every wall of text sent your way, if you cannot comprehend it, I am done. You can have the final word.

1. There IS a pattern (regardless of relevance or significance, whether or not Sakurai is even aware of it, or did it intentionally is not important).
2. Adding a second retro character is feasible even if there was not a pattern.
3. Patterns are subjected and interpreted by the individual. So it is dependent on the individual.
4. No one is ignorant for choosing to believe a pattern that is clearly there.
5. By going against the herd, you are following a pattern of your own, so choosing one pattern over the other and dismissing the notion of the latter is ridiculous.
6. I apologize about the fallacy thing. I am not used to people editing their posts like crazy after I respond to them.

 

[Bowserlick]

I understand that people like Little Mac.

I just find it funny when people say "Well, Mii would be bland."
...or "Pacman, eh, don't you think he'll be bland?"

And then I look at the characters that they want for Smash and the guy that only dodges and punches is on their roster.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That being said, I feel strongly about Mac being in SSB4. He arguably deserves the spot more than any other potential newcomer.
Yep, more than King K. Rool, Ridley, AND Palutena.

No

By going against the herd, you are following a pattern of your own, so choosing one pattern over the other and dismissing the notion of the latter is ridiculous.

No

 

[Mega Bidoof]

What exactly does Little Mac do besides that?

Well he.......
Hmmmmm.......

He can turn into Giga Mac!
And do a star punch for a special move.
He can punch, but in many different ways
Just like how Math swings his sword. In many different ways.