Metal Overlord
Smash Hero
Pokemon?
Blastoise
Mewtwo
/discussion
Blastoise
Mewtwo
/discussion
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Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)
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FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
Nah, let's talk about Torterra instead. Torterra makes every discussion roughly 13 times more interesting.
GiantBreadbug
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Ahh, this ol' chestnut.
I think everyone who is educated enough to know who the Red is can also realize that there's no harm in calling Smash's Pokemon Trainer "Red." It's a name that any player character in the games can be assigned, and it's a default name for the model used. There can be any number of people named Red.
I think it's smelly to have generic-names. It's like calling Mr. Game & Watch "Game & Watch Character." Having a concrete name gives the character a better sense of identity.
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No, it really doesn't. All calling him Red does means we can't give him alternate costumes. That's it.
Mr. Game & Watch is actually called that. Red =/= Pokemon Trainer(Brawl). It's just a 1st Gen Trainer. All it is is a PC with a blank name and 3 Pokemon. You're playing as a class as is. Not the literal character.
Nobody else has that exact same scenario in all of Smash, so it can't ultimately apply. Yoshi? We know there's one main Yoshi, who is the one that's exactly playable. The Main Toad? Peach's B move. Pokemon Trainer is a Class, Red is a very specific one, and they used that generic design to represent you as a blank slate, nothing else. Red was just not in Smash(although he may have been a Trophy in Melee, I forget) as a Playable Character. Only PT.
If you want to nickname him Red cause he looks similar, be my quest. But that's what it legitimately is, just a nickname, not fact. If Sakurai wanted Red playable, he would've named him Red. The fact he was very specific with the term Toon Link more than shows he's outright specific with names. Link is a notable one, since the adult version was already named Link in the first Smash, so he doesn't need to change it. Yet he does for the others, despite them all being one version of Link. No, it's not Red, and nothing shows that as proof.
Mr. Game & Watch is actually called that. Red =/= Pokemon Trainer(Brawl). It's just a 1st Gen Trainer. All it is is a PC with a blank name and 3 Pokemon. You're playing as a class as is. Not the literal character.
Nobody else has that exact same scenario in all of Smash, so it can't ultimately apply. Yoshi? We know there's one main Yoshi, who is the one that's exactly playable. The Main Toad? Peach's B move. Pokemon Trainer is a Class, Red is a very specific one, and they used that generic design to represent you as a blank slate, nothing else. Red was just not in Smash(although he may have been a Trophy in Melee, I forget) as a Playable Character. Only PT.
If you want to nickname him Red cause he looks similar, be my quest. But that's what it legitimately is, just a nickname, not fact. If Sakurai wanted Red playable, he would've named him Red. The fact he was very specific with the term Toon Link more than shows he's outright specific with names. Link is a notable one, since the adult version was already named Link in the first Smash, so he doesn't need to change it. Yet he does for the others, despite them all being one version of Link. No, it's not Red, and nothing shows that as proof.
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This reminds me of a similar discussion back in the old thread which is kinda sad. Whether or not Sakurai decides to pull another Young/Toon Link is unknown at this point, but at least we know this much: Red > "Pokemon Trainer" >>> Ash Ketchum.
Would definitely advocate the name "Pokemon Trainer," however, if Red got Alternate Costumes based on Blue, Gold, Diamond and the like.
Would definitely advocate the name "Pokemon Trainer," however, if Red got Alternate Costumes based on Blue, Gold, Diamond and the like.
D
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There was never a "Mr. Game & Watch". That's a Smash original.
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That's pretty much how Pokemon Trainer is treated as. A combination of any Trainer with some random Pokemon(instead of moves based off the series).
It's hopeful we'll see more costumes, but who knows? It could be as easy as this; For every single Pokemon color, there's one costume.
Meaning, there's Red, Blue, Green, Gold/Ethan, Crystal/Lyra, Silver, Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, Diamond, Pearl, Platinum(I forget if this one has its own character, which is most likely "Barry", the last unplayable rival), Black, White, Black 2, White 2. That's already 15, which is 5 per Mon.
And that's not counting if we get a 6th Gen by that time, possibly adding 2 or 3 more.
D
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There's a specific reason why the unnamed Trainer takes after Red and not any other.
Red is the original protagonist of the series, and is the only player character to reappear outside his player appearance. Essentially, he represents the player characters the best.
He also uses all three of the original starters in his non-player appearance, just like the Trainer in Brawl. The only difference is that Red has fully evolved starter while Pokemon Trainer has Squirtle and Ivysaur for what I assume is balance purposes. However, in order to GET them to be fully evolved, he had to start from their unevolved forms.
Red was also within the Top 20 of Sakurai's Pre-Melee poll, though listed as Satoshi, as a parallel to that being one of the default names that can be selected for the Trainer in the original games, as well as the Japanese name for Ash Ketchum, Red's anime counterpart. Note, that this was before he had an official name, as Gold/Silver had not come out yet, so he was not known as "Red" at the time.
However, to say that isn't Red in Smash just because he's not labeled as such is the same thing as saying that Smash's Yoshi is not Mario's Yoshi.
He is never stated as being the same one that pals around with Mario, and even in its trophy descriptions, the species as a whole are being discussed rather than the single Green Yoshi. However, like Red, the Green Yoshi best represents the species due to being the most well known as well as the first main one shown within their respective series.
TL;DR version: If that's not Red, then Yoshi is just a generic Yoshi.
Red is the original protagonist of the series, and is the only player character to reappear outside his player appearance. Essentially, he represents the player characters the best.
He also uses all three of the original starters in his non-player appearance, just like the Trainer in Brawl. The only difference is that Red has fully evolved starter while Pokemon Trainer has Squirtle and Ivysaur for what I assume is balance purposes. However, in order to GET them to be fully evolved, he had to start from their unevolved forms.
Red was also within the Top 20 of Sakurai's Pre-Melee poll, though listed as Satoshi, as a parallel to that being one of the default names that can be selected for the Trainer in the original games, as well as the Japanese name for Ash Ketchum, Red's anime counterpart. Note, that this was before he had an official name, as Gold/Silver had not come out yet, so he was not known as "Red" at the time.
However, to say that isn't Red in Smash just because he's not labeled as such is the same thing as saying that Smash's Yoshi is not Mario's Yoshi.
He is never stated as being the same one that pals around with Mario, and even in its trophy descriptions, the species as a whole are being discussed rather than the single Green Yoshi. However, like Red, the Green Yoshi best represents the species due to being the most well known as well as the first main one shown within their respective series.
TL;DR version: If that's not Red, then Yoshi is just a generic Yoshi.
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Yoshi is nothing like Pokemon Trainer either. Not even close to similar. And yes, there's generic Yoshis in Smash anyway, especially the first game's Story Mode, but there's one main Yoshi. It's just a playable race by all technicalities, and the game it represents easily is Yoshi's Story, which you play as multiple ones. So... yeah, Yoshi doesn't count here.
Any Trainer can look like that. It's not specifically Red's outfit so much as the generic Trainer outfit. The base one. That doesn't really make him Red, it's just the most recognizable version. Red is definitely the most recognizable trainer, but yes, I completely stand by the fact that Sakurai didn't named him Red because he never meant Red in the first place.
And in Brawl's Story Mode, we never see Red obtain the earlier evolutions either, meaning he could've just as easily caught the Pokemon in that exact evolutionary level. Remember, Gameplay and Storyline Segregation here. The only reason the "balance" thing comes up is because unlike with some Gens, all three of the 1st Gen Pokemon's final forms were huge and outside of Charizard, really slow. It wouldn't have worked. 3rd Gen's doesn't suffer that problem, as only Swampert is very slow, but Sceptile is fairly fast, and Blaziken is the fastest. It's not just balanced so much as "show one of every level" instead.
All it is is to rep the 1st Generation with the main three. PT is just used as the way to access it, as a generic Pokemon Trainer, and nothing more. It's still not Red. Another thing to keep in mind that Red's Pikachu is in Smash(although Yellow is not Canon, so technically it's Ash's anyway). Jigglypuff is from the Anime. Mewtwo is most likely based upon his Gen II appearance, where Dark types has a fairly easy time against him now, hence him being weak. Pichu... I don't need to explain this one.
Any Trainer can look like that. It's not specifically Red's outfit so much as the generic Trainer outfit. The base one. That doesn't really make him Red, it's just the most recognizable version. Red is definitely the most recognizable trainer, but yes, I completely stand by the fact that Sakurai didn't named him Red because he never meant Red in the first place.
And in Brawl's Story Mode, we never see Red obtain the earlier evolutions either, meaning he could've just as easily caught the Pokemon in that exact evolutionary level. Remember, Gameplay and Storyline Segregation here. The only reason the "balance" thing comes up is because unlike with some Gens, all three of the 1st Gen Pokemon's final forms were huge and outside of Charizard, really slow. It wouldn't have worked. 3rd Gen's doesn't suffer that problem, as only Swampert is very slow, but Sceptile is fairly fast, and Blaziken is the fastest. It's not just balanced so much as "show one of every level" instead.
All it is is to rep the 1st Generation with the main three. PT is just used as the way to access it, as a generic Pokemon Trainer, and nothing more. It's still not Red. Another thing to keep in mind that Red's Pikachu is in Smash(although Yellow is not Canon, so technically it's Ash's anyway). Jigglypuff is from the Anime. Mewtwo is most likely based upon his Gen II appearance, where Dark types has a fairly easy time against him now, hence him being weak. Pichu... I don't need to explain this one.
D
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Your arguments are so bad, I don't know where to begin...
Also, the game Pokemon Trainer represents easily is Yellow. Namely because you can legitimately obtain all the starters in that game. Guess who's the Trainer in Yellow? Red.
You want a generic Trainer?
THIS is a generic Trainer.
You can see multiple minor Trainers using this design, or one similar to it.
You only see one character using the design used in Brawl; Red.
If you can't back it up, it's not exactly a fact, now is it?
While I stand by the logical reasoning that the Trainer is unanmed due to the fact he didn't START with an actual name, and that unlike other protagonists that can be named, such as Link, player Trainers are merely extensions of the players themselves. It is fitted perfectly in Brawl by having the original and most important player Trainer unnamed, as it emulates the bond between the player and his/her Pokemon by being the one who controls the playable set of Pokemon in Brawl (though quite literally in this case, since the player doesn't control the Trainer).
2. My point was that Pokemon series Red, as in NOT SMASH RED had to have had a Squirtle and Ivysaur before he could obtain a Blastoise and Venusaur, meaning that trying to say that they aren't meant to be the same because Smash Red uses Squirtle and Ivysaur while Pokemon Red uses Blastoise and Venusaur is psychotic.
Really slow? If we're going by speed stat, they aren't THAT slow. I mean, Venusaur's only 10 lower than Pikachu, and Blastoise is 12 lower. Conversely, Mewtwo trounces all of them in speed, and was much slower than Pikachu in Melee.
And it's not like we don't have a bigger, slower turtle than Blastoise already. Oh wait, we do. His name is Bowser.
They all could have worked. The main problem is that they were all large heavyweights, which isn't that balanced. Notice how Squirtle is a small lightweight, Ivysaur is an average sized middleweight, and Charizard is a large heavyweight. That's where the balance comes in.
2. As a trio, they would have not been in without Red since he is the only major Trainer to use all three. Unless you're actually willing to say that if Red was not the Trainer used, but instead, a typical Youngster or Cool Trainer, it would have the same effect. In which case, there is no point arguing with you. Also, he's the original fricking protagonist. It's the same reason why we have Marth for Fire Emblem.
Pikachu is just a generic Pikachu that has been shown to be both owned by someone off-screen (in entrances) and wild (SSE).
Or, since Smash uses random Pokemon in Poke Balls, Pikachu is just one of them and is special as it's a fighter not a summon.
1. There is only one Mewtwo in game canon, and in that canon, it remains unowned, no matter which player catches it.
2. Mewtwo had NO appearance in Gen II other than trading it from Gen I.
3. Mewtwo being weak was no reference to anything. It was just faulty character balancing. However, him being light is directly stated in his Trophies as well as his Melee page in Japan to be a result of always using telekinesis to float.
4. Mewtwo still dominated the competitive scene in Gen II, even with Dark Types.
5. Sakurai doesn't seem to care about the competitive scene as a whole anyway.
6. Unlike previous examples you gave which merely coattailed on anime popularity, Mewtwo is heavily based on the anime. This is because Shadow Ball was his primary attack in the movie, and Mewtwo talks in Melee, but only in Japanese. Possibly the reason why Mewtwo is so light and floats all the time is also a reference to it, seeing as the one time he got hit with an attack, he got knocked far. Granted, that was because Mew attacked him, but hey, it must have been enough for Sakurai.
Doesn't change the fact that the Yoshi in Smash is not Mario's Yoshi. So if people are "wrong" to say that Pokemon Trainer is Red, then they are also wrong when they say that Mario's Yoshi is playable. It's just a generic Yoshi.
Also, the game Pokemon Trainer represents easily is Yellow. Namely because you can legitimately obtain all the starters in that game. Guess who's the Trainer in Yellow? Red.
If any Trainer can look like that, why is there only one Trainer that actually looks like that? If it's such a generic design, why do we not see any others sharing the design?
You want a generic Trainer?
THIS is a generic Trainer.
You can see multiple minor Trainers using this design, or one similar to it.
You only see one character using the design used in Brawl; Red.
Oh, so it's a fact, is it? Then show me your proof.
If you can't back it up, it's not exactly a fact, now is it?
While I stand by the logical reasoning that the Trainer is unanmed due to the fact he didn't START with an actual name, and that unlike other protagonists that can be named, such as Link, player Trainers are merely extensions of the players themselves. It is fitted perfectly in Brawl by having the original and most important player Trainer unnamed, as it emulates the bond between the player and his/her Pokemon by being the one who controls the playable set of Pokemon in Brawl (though quite literally in this case, since the player doesn't control the Trainer).
1. The characters in Brawl's Story Mode are Trophies, not actual characters. Other characters do things in the story nearly impossible for them to do in their home series. TP Zelda turning into Sheik? Pit flying without the Wings of Pegasus (prior to Uprising with the Miracle of Flight)?
2. My point was that Pokemon series Red, as in NOT SMASH RED had to have had a Squirtle and Ivysaur before he could obtain a Blastoise and Venusaur, meaning that trying to say that they aren't meant to be the same because Smash Red uses Squirtle and Ivysaur while Pokemon Red uses Blastoise and Venusaur is psychotic.
Lol, huge? I suppose Snake is a giant, since he's taller than Blastoise and Charizard by a couple of inches. Venusaur is as large as Mewtwo.
Really slow? If we're going by speed stat, they aren't THAT slow. I mean, Venusaur's only 10 lower than Pikachu, and Blastoise is 12 lower. Conversely, Mewtwo trounces all of them in speed, and was much slower than Pikachu in Melee.
And it's not like we don't have a bigger, slower turtle than Blastoise already. Oh wait, we do. His name is Bowser.
They all could have worked. The main problem is that they were all large heavyweights, which isn't that balanced. Notice how Squirtle is a small lightweight, Ivysaur is an average sized middleweight, and Charizard is a large heavyweight. That's where the balance comes in.
1. Who said all three needed to get in? I'm pretty sure Charizard alone would have been fine due to its sheer popularity.
2. As a trio, they would have not been in without Red since he is the only major Trainer to use all three. Unless you're actually willing to say that if Red was not the Trainer used, but instead, a typical Youngster or Cool Trainer, it would have the same effect. In which case, there is no point arguing with you. Also, he's the original fricking protagonist. It's the same reason why we have Marth for Fire Emblem.
Source needed.
Pikachu is just a generic Pikachu that has been shown to be both owned by someone off-screen (in entrances) and wild (SSE).
Or, since Smash uses random Pokemon in Poke Balls, Pikachu is just one of them and is special as it's a fighter not a summon.
Jigglypuff was never owned in the anime, yet it is shown to be owned in it's entrances. Like Pikachu, it's just a generic Jigglypuff that is summoned out of a Poke Ball, but is special as it is a fighter, not a summon.
Now you're just pathetically grasping at straws.
1. There is only one Mewtwo in game canon, and in that canon, it remains unowned, no matter which player catches it.
2. Mewtwo had NO appearance in Gen II other than trading it from Gen I.
3. Mewtwo being weak was no reference to anything. It was just faulty character balancing. However, him being light is directly stated in his Trophies as well as his Melee page in Japan to be a result of always using telekinesis to float.
4. Mewtwo still dominated the competitive scene in Gen II, even with Dark Types.
5. Sakurai doesn't seem to care about the competitive scene as a whole anyway.
6. Unlike previous examples you gave which merely coattailed on anime popularity, Mewtwo is heavily based on the anime. This is because Shadow Ball was his primary attack in the movie, and Mewtwo talks in Melee, but only in Japanese. Possibly the reason why Mewtwo is so light and floats all the time is also a reference to it, seeing as the one time he got hit with an attack, he got knocked far. Granted, that was because Mew attacked him, but hey, it must have been enough for Sakurai.
You don't, as I've already explained Pichu numerous times when talking about latest Gen representation and why it's not automatically guaranteed. And no, Pichu is not one of the Pichu Bros., so don't even bring that up.
Johnknight1
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Okay Golden, you win the "longest post of the thread" contest. I concede.
As to "why they matter" it's because they were once in the game, and because could be interesting. Even if you don't like my idea, you got to admit at least it's original, and unlike anything we have in smash now.
You better concede as well Hyper, or else I'm going to go Hyper on your Falcon!
If Toon Link gets cut, it's not like we're going to get another character instead. Really, keeping Toon Link is the easiest. Plus, he can easily be decloned, if the clone aspect really bugs you.
It's on the Melee trophy description of Young Link. Plus Link is still an adolescence in the first four Legend of Zelda games (tLOZ, Zelda II, A Link to the Past, and Link's Awakening).
I have proposed that they could be a tag team where they both are the opposite in terms of strengths, weaknesses, knockback, combos, and stun. They could have the same moves (albeit with different effects), or completely different moves (with different effects). I would prefer the former (easier work). What I propose ultimately is that say they have the same forward smash. Let's say Plusle's version of the attack does more hitstun, setting up more combos. However, Minun's version of the attack has more knockback, allowing for early KO's. Such a system could really be fascinating, especially if you could switch between.
As to "why they matter" it's because they were once in the game, and because could be interesting. Even if you don't like my idea, you got to admit at least it's original, and unlike anything we have in smash now.
D
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I like how you've incorporated their positive and negative charges as key differences, though the switching seems very DKC-esque...
Johnknight1
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Actually I got that idea while playing DKC2. I realized "hey, that 'tag' mechanic would work great for two seemingly identical characters in smash." This was after we all found out that Dixie was originally planned to be Diddy's partner. As we all know, Sakurai said "hell no" to the programmer who did that, because it wouldn't work.
However a tag mechanic for Plusle and Minun would work, because the two characters are identical, yet completely different. Plus, people don't want to play as them separately, unlike Diddy and Dixie. They are the plus and minus signs; they're polar opposites. One cannot exist without the other. So, making their effects the opposites would make sense, as well as be awesome.
Plus, you could add in (perhaps) a few moves where they attack together, which I also think would be a cool "team" mechanic.
One problem I run into with this idea of mine is I'm not sure how the AI would work. I imagine Ice Climber-esk, although I think the AI would/should be a bit more defensive and less offensive.
However a tag mechanic for Plusle and Minun would work, because the two characters are identical, yet completely different. Plus, people don't want to play as them separately, unlike Diddy and Dixie. They are the plus and minus signs; they're polar opposites. One cannot exist without the other. So, making their effects the opposites would make sense, as well as be awesome.
Plus, you could add in (perhaps) a few moves where they attack together, which I also think would be a cool "team" mechanic.
One problem I run into with this idea of mine is I'm not sure how the AI would work. I imagine Ice Climber-esk, although I think the AI would/should be a bit more defensive and less offensive.
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I don't think we'll see Plusle and Minun, there's a reason if they've been supposedly scrapped. Who really cares about them anyway really? If it was for me, only two gen III pokémon would have a chance to be in this game: Blaziken and Deoxys.
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Did you not read my idea=??? Tell me that does not at least spark you're interest. It's at least more interesting than Blaziken (we already have enough fighters; this is a fighting game, after all) and Deoxys (who would be pretty hard to make original). Granted, back in the day I supported them. Now, I see the folly in my ways...
...and realize that BRELOOM IS THE ANSWER!!!
...and realize that BRELOOM IS THE ANSWER!!!
Vintage Creep
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Lol I have to admit Breloom would be awesome too. I was talking about deserving the spot anyway. I consider gen III extremely overrated, and only a few were good. Of all them scrapping the joke pokémon (I love Ludicolo but c'mon), I consider for this game only those two. Also, considering how gen I had the starters in one slot, Blaziken alone would be weird, so just one: Deoxys. Plusle & Minun as you see them could work sure, but I don't care about movesets. If the character itself doesn't appeal me, he could have the best moveset ever but I still won't play him.
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Breloom is freaking awesome, I don't care what anyone says. The first time my Shroomish evolved into one, I was ecstatic. I loved that thing before I found out it had God-like stats. As for Gen III, I think the games are among the worst Pokémon games with Gen IV (which isn't a bad thing, considering how high quality they are), but their Pokémon are the best since Gen I and II. Also, Ludicolo is awesome. I like how Gen III had some serious and not-so-serious Pokémon that meshed well with each other.
"The most deserving" argument eh=??? That depends what you value (a character's worth to their franchise, their role in said franchise, their popularity, their moveset potential, their history, etc) and how much you value it. If you consider that, few Pokémon matter. Basically, none of them matter, except Pikachu, who is the mascot.
As for Deoxys, again, it just comes off as too similar to Mewtwo. Add in that Zoroark is seeming more and more likely, and it just feels like Deoxys would be an unnecessary addition. Heck, Sakurai was quick to confirm Deoxys as a Pokéball Pokémon perhaps for that very reason. I'm saying this as someone who likes Deoxys, too. If Deoxys had more unique attacks and movement, I would still be riding the Deoxys hype train. But as it is, Deoxys, in my mind at least, has nothing new or noteworthy to add to smash bros.
Even though Plusle and Minun appear to be nothing special, another Pikachu clone, or just another Pichu, I think there's a lot of potential there. I think they can add a lot potentially to any smash bros roster. I think Sakurai and the Brawl development team saw something in them. Something that made them begin programming them (assuming that was them as "Pra_Mai," of course). I think that "balance" of the two, and the two being "opposites that attract" could make for a playstyle that attracts. At least it's different from the current smash bros. norms. Any rule that breaks the rule seems to be popular anyways.
"The most deserving" argument eh=??? That depends what you value (a character's worth to their franchise, their role in said franchise, their popularity, their moveset potential, their history, etc) and how much you value it. If you consider that, few Pokémon matter. Basically, none of them matter, except Pikachu, who is the mascot.
As for Deoxys, again, it just comes off as too similar to Mewtwo. Add in that Zoroark is seeming more and more likely, and it just feels like Deoxys would be an unnecessary addition. Heck, Sakurai was quick to confirm Deoxys as a Pokéball Pokémon perhaps for that very reason. I'm saying this as someone who likes Deoxys, too. If Deoxys had more unique attacks and movement, I would still be riding the Deoxys hype train. But as it is, Deoxys, in my mind at least, has nothing new or noteworthy to add to smash bros.
Even though Plusle and Minun appear to be nothing special, another Pikachu clone, or just another Pichu, I think there's a lot of potential there. I think they can add a lot potentially to any smash bros roster. I think Sakurai and the Brawl development team saw something in them. Something that made them begin programming them (assuming that was them as "Pra_Mai," of course). I think that "balance" of the two, and the two being "opposites that attract" could make for a playstyle that attracts. At least it's different from the current smash bros. norms. Any rule that breaks the rule seems to be popular anyways.
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Pokemon Trainer (Pokemon Red/Blue, Pokemon Diamond/Pearl)
A person who raises Pokemon and trains them as partners in battle. In battle,
a Trainer gives orders to the Pokemon and uses items. It's not an exaggeration
to say battles can be won or lost on a Trainer's single strategic move.
Trainers pour their hearts into their Pokemon and share anger, sadness, and
joy as they adventure in hopes of becoming Pokemon Masters.
That's the official Trophy of Pokemon Trainer. It's not Red, because he doesn't appear in Diamond/Pearl. It's just the general Trainer. Official date proves you wrong. Game. Set. Match.
He appears in a lot of games, but of the 5 IV Gen games, he only appears in HeartGold and SoulSilver. He has zero appearances in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum, and the official character in Smash specifically comes from Red/Blue and Diamond/Pearl. You can argue all you want, but the Trophy itself kills any argument you had right there. That is fact. Now stop arguing he is Red. You're free to nickname him that(nobody'll blame you because he uses his likeness, and trust me, I agree he looks way too much like it), but he literally is not in Smash. I didn't even have to view the trophy myself to already know that. That just already confirms it farther. Game over.
A person who raises Pokemon and trains them as partners in battle. In battle,
a Trainer gives orders to the Pokemon and uses items. It's not an exaggeration
to say battles can be won or lost on a Trainer's single strategic move.
Trainers pour their hearts into their Pokemon and share anger, sadness, and
joy as they adventure in hopes of becoming Pokemon Masters.
That's the official Trophy of Pokemon Trainer. It's not Red, because he doesn't appear in Diamond/Pearl. It's just the general Trainer. Official date proves you wrong. Game. Set. Match.
He appears in a lot of games, but of the 5 IV Gen games, he only appears in HeartGold and SoulSilver. He has zero appearances in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum, and the official character in Smash specifically comes from Red/Blue and Diamond/Pearl. You can argue all you want, but the Trophy itself kills any argument you had right there. That is fact. Now stop arguing he is Red. You're free to nickname him that(nobody'll blame you because he uses his likeness, and trust me, I agree he looks way too much like it), but he literally is not in Smash. I didn't even have to view the trophy myself to already know that. That just already confirms it farther. Game over.
FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
Red's trophy doesn't even state anything related to Diamond and Pearl, it states that the character comes from FireRed and LeafGreen.
Arcadenik
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I like the idea of Deoxys in Smash. I think it would look so cool using those tentacle-like limbs like whips like Majora's Mask does in the final boss fight in addition to its shapeshifting properties to turn into a pair of fists for punching.
Meowth (with or without Team Rocket) is still my fanboy dream.
Meowth (with or without Team Rocket) is still my fanboy dream.
8-peacock-8
Smash Hero
Lol Meowth.
D
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This is the Game. Set. Match., HyperFalcon. Your arguments are bad and they will continue to be bad.
EDIT: Perhaps instead of making assumptions, you actually check the trophy itself. I'm looking at it right now, and it states FireRed and LeafGreen and ONLY that.
EDIT 2: Since you seem like the lazy type, here's a video of all the Trophies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PMZwlqiaSs
At 6:06, it has the Trainer. Now tell me what you see. Makes you feel quite stupid, doesn't it?
EDIT 3: inb4morehyperfalconlogiconwhythatdoesntmeananything
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
While Deoxys could prove to be a very unique character, the biggest problem is treating each of its four forms as transformations.
Arcadenik
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Nah. Just like how Pit automatically splits his bow into two smaller blades for certain attacks... Deoxys's body could automatically change forms for certain attacks/specials.
Vintage Creep
Smash Master
Or B+down or 4 forms of Deoxys, all playable, just switch costume (EX-mode right?) in the menu. And here you have it.
Robert of Normandy
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Acutally, I like Arcadeniks idea the best. While I do think some character shaving alternate modes would be a good idea, any character that got an EX-mode should have just one mode.
D
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Unlike Pit's Bow, Deoxys' formes and states of arms require separate models, something that no character has done thus far.
Think of it this way:
Normal w/ arms
Normal w/ one arm, one set of tentacles X2 (one for each side)
Normal w/ tentacles
Attack
Defense
Speed
That's 7 models for one character, and they all have to be cycled through at given intervals, whether it be the lame and data consuming way of cycling through them like Zelda/Sheik, or preforming various actions by switching models, such as turning into Speed for dashng or turning into Defense for shielding.
Think of it this way:
Normal w/ arms
Normal w/ one arm, one set of tentacles X2 (one for each side)
Normal w/ tentacles
Attack
Defense
Speed
That's 7 models for one character, and they all have to be cycled through at given intervals, whether it be the lame and data consuming way of cycling through them like Zelda/Sheik, or preforming various actions by switching models, such as turning into Speed for dashng or turning into Defense for shielding.
Vintage Creep
Smash Master
It's a good idea yes, but I think it could become a little bit messy. Anyway I think Deoxys has a really low chance to get in, so...
Or maybe... If they announce the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire?
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4 movesets for one character is already hard enough. What would be the difference anyway? Unless he temporarily transformed for certain moves, where it still represents the abilities, without being too complicated.
No character thus far has 4 modes, and even then, why for only slight differences in stats? But it does make a point that he was quickly dismissed as playable for a Poke Ball Pokemon anyway. That, and Plusle & Minun, if that was actually them, is the more likely choice anyway. Easier to make, unique partnership. There's other 3rd Gens beyond Deoxys who aren't a pain to work with.
No character thus far has 4 modes, and even then, why for only slight differences in stats? But it does make a point that he was quickly dismissed as playable for a Poke Ball Pokemon anyway. That, and Plusle & Minun, if that was actually them, is the more likely choice anyway. Easier to make, unique partnership. There's other 3rd Gens beyond Deoxys who aren't a pain to work with.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
The way that I'd envision Deoxys's models would be the following...
Normal Form
Attack Form
Defense Form
Speed Form
Basically, while Deoxys's normal form would feature actual hands, the other forms would feature tentacle-like appendages; this basically means that while the normal form would hold items normally, the other forms would use their tentacle-like appendages to hold onto the items.
Normal Form
Attack Form
Defense Form
Speed Form
Basically, while Deoxys's normal form would feature actual hands, the other forms would feature tentacle-like appendages; this basically means that while the normal form would hold items normally, the other forms would use their tentacle-like appendages to hold onto the items.
Reyson
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Wow, this forum REALLY seems to love Pokemon (and Digimon).. Maybe Nintendo should just scrap all pokémon safe for Pikachu in Smash and give them their own fighting game. If they'd leave it up to this forum we'd have Nintendo vs Pokémon.
lobotheduck21
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for deoxis, give one form a b-move each, so they change it's form until it does a diffrent b-move, and the forms affect stats
3Bismyname
Smash Champion
Well it's not that we love Pokemon. It's that unlike other series Pokemon has literally hundreds of viable options. Like Mario and the legend of Zelda series each have maybe 4 or 5 characters who really stand a good chance, while Pokemon is not nearly so clear cut.
lobotheduck21
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that, and I really love pokemonWell it's not that we love Pokemon. It's that unlike other series Pokemon has literally hundreds of viable options. Like Mario and the legend of Zelda series each have maybe 4 or 5 characters who really stand a good chance, while Pokemon is not nearly so clear cut.
3Bismyname
Smash Champion
me too. it's really one of the only Nintendo franchises that i do truly lovethat, and I really love pokemon
lobotheduck21
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And pinsir still gets nothin'
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Heracross was meant to be an evolution of Pinsir.
However, Pinsir is not bad on its own, anyway. Farfetch'd is terrible as is and could use one.
However, Pinsir is not bad on its own, anyway. Farfetch'd is terrible as is and could use one.
FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
Herecross was never meant to be the evolution of Pinsir, hence why they've been separate Pokemon since day one.
D
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Well, personally I find the Young Link to be the true Link as well, since he has appeared in more games than the Adult. I'm sure other Zelda fans feel this way as well.
Ugh, I HATE this idea so much. Why do people always suggest the v+B rotation for EVERY transforming character? There are other ways to adapt transformations onto characters. No need to rip off from PkmnTrainer/Zelda+Sheik. Could we at least TRY to be a bit more creative?
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