Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@GY: That's true. And Black/White Kyurem could be the regular Final Smash. Would have have a third Pokemon, or is there only two? If third, Zoroark, and just to be funny, he copies one of the random FS's of one of the current characters in the game. This would be both interesting and has the chance to be good or bad. I think it also does a good job of showing Zoroark's power without being broken or anything. IMO.

@Habanero: Nope, height is length overall. He's still far bigger than the Dragon Trio full stop. And would be in Smash regardless. Not like giant Onixes and smaller ones don't exist, anyway. They're not all the same size, don't ya know.

 

[Deleted member]

I was more thinking along the lines that Ghetsis is a boss in the story mode with Kyurem, and uses either Black or White Kyurem depending on the choice you make in the story mode (whether N becomes Hero of Ideals or Truth).
But yeah, only the two dragons.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was more thinking along the lines that Ghetsis is a boss in the story mode with Kyurem, and uses either Black or White Kyurem depending on the choice you make in the story mode (whether N becomes Hero of Ideals or Truth).
But yeah, only the two dragons.

Another idea is that the costumes are simply three versions of each. Or just two of each. With the appropriate Kyurem being the Final Smash. It'd be N, but he'd control only one Dragon and that's the full character overall.

 

[Deleted member]

That means there can't be 4 player mirror matches for either Dragon.

And no on the Kyurem Final Smash idea. It goes against N's standards. Having Kyurem as a boss controlled by Ghetsis, however, makes far more sense.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That means there can't be 4 player mirror matches for either Dragon.

And no on the Kyurem Final Smash idea. It goes against N's standards. Having Kyurem as a boss controlled by Ghetsis, however, makes far more sense.

Well, that idea only much worked if Kyurem is already part of N's team. Since it would make sense for both to combine for an attack.(say Giga Impact or whatever the special move is)

And... true. So 4 costumes each. They kind of have Blue and Yellow covered, with White and Black as well. Just needs a Green and Red each, and we're set.

Of course, from what might happen, up to 5 players wouldn't be weird, one with the Tablet, and 4 with the Wii Remotes. Have they confirmed the amount of people playing on the Wii U yet?

 

[Deleted member]

They have confirmed nothing, though having 5 player matches wouldn't be surprising. Maybe even 6 if you connect the 3DS to it.
The way I see it, each Dragon should have 6 costumes (though knowing Sakurai, they might just have 5...)

Regular
Red
Blue
Green
Shiny
Reversed?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Those sound perfect to me. Shiny shows Blue and Yellow for Zekrom and Reshiram, to note.(albeit, Reshiram's is only the tail rings, but with Sakurai, that's clearly ENOUGH. Freakin' Sonic and his poor costumes...)

Zekrom's Shiny is already Blue, so that would mean... that he'd just get an extra Yellow costume instead? That work out well?

 

[FlareHabanero]

The alternate colors should be the trio wearing funny little outfits. You know, like how'd they appear in Pokemon Musical.

...

What? I know you made Kyurem wear that hula skirt and pink barrette, it's obligatory with those type of things.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They'd have to be really small for that to look right. I admit, that would be great, if we didn't already have 4 reasonable costumes. XD

 

[Deleted member]

Or, since his shiny is more of a dark turquoise, his Blue Team would be more like navy blue.

EDIT: I see I have been pre-empted.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Remember, they have different Blue Shades if people choose the same color.(same with Tournament Mode, I know that the one in Melee didn't change the coloring, so you could have literal clones in it, but I believe Brawl fixed that, I'd have to check, once I get my VCR working)

Either could work. But having two varying shades of Blue seems silly to me, personally.

 

[Deleted member]

Tell that to Marth and Lucario.

EDIT: But yeah, the Shiny Zekrom looks too turquoise enough that a navy blue one for Blue Team while the Shiny is tied to the Shiny Reshiram would work.

Remember that N would be changing colors as well.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's true.

As long as the shades are different, sure, why not?

Should N just stick to colors similar to the appropriate Dragon? Just without shades for him only, I'd imagine.

 

[Deleted member]

For N, I would imagine:

Regular
Red
Blue
Green
....

I don't know. I'm half thinking colors to match both Team Plasma fractions.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That would mean a White as well. Which works for Reshiram too.

How about he has a set of same colors for each, but is more Shiny for one other. So let's say regular for Reshiram and Shiny for Zekrom.(or other way around, matters little)

 

[Reyson]

You know who I want as the new pokémon representative? Tauros!

"But Reyson", you might say, "can Tauros even have a good moveset, he's a normal type!" Absolutely! He can learn Surf, Solarbeam, Wild Charge, Thunder, Stone Edge, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Earthquake, Toxic,.... Move over legendaries, this bull is ready to ruin your day!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Change it to Buffolant, and sure. I really don't see the need for yet another 1st Gen. Outside of Meowth, since he's very important(in the Anime atleast).

I agree that the moveset thing is not an issue, ultimately, but he's... not that heavily important. Plus, less references to Ash, the better. XD

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Tauros has a lackluster Special Attack stat in the RPGs though, and being quadruped doesn't really help it either; Ivysaur has its vines, but Tauros has nothing of the sort.

Being a Poke Ball Pokemon would make things easier for Tauros, but Bouffalant would pretty much better represent the 5th generation there.

 

[Reyson]

Change it to Buffolant, and sure. I really don't see the need for yet another 1st Gen. Outside of Meowth, since he's very important(in the Anime atleast).

I agree that the moveset thing is not an issue, ultimately, but he's... not that heavily important. Plus, less references to Ash, the better. XD

I just checked out Buffolant(I'm not well versed in anything beyond 2nd gen) and wow, is that guy just a Tauros clone? Moveset is almost identical, based on similar animals, same type,...
Didn't really mean it as a reference to Ash, he barely even used his. Tauros is just one of my favorite pokémon due to his power and versatility, I also just want something other than the humanoid pokemon that are usually suggested.

 

[Deleted member]

So, yeah, bringing back an old subject that got buried, pra_mai.
Plusle and Minun or Random Box? Why is it so?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I know you didn't mean it, but Ash and his Tauros is pretty well known. Red doesn't have any, and he's represented in through Pokemon Trainer.(not that it IS Red, but yeah)

And that's what Boufallant is. Many of the them were obvious remakes. Roggenrola line is beyond obviously Geodude. Woobat for the Zubat line(just easier to deal with since tons of Pokemon learn Dark type moves and Rock type moves). Etc. And yeah, the other Gens are pretty good.

Pra_Mai, to note, is actually part of the romanizations of of Plusle and Minun. It's easy to look up too. I just don't see how it can be Random Box when nothing in spelling/words use suggests it.

It does necessarily mean it was Plusle and Minun either(but it does fit), but the Random Box makes zero sense when reading the actual data.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I'm seriously wondering where they'll go (if they even do anything more) with the fact that they still have to explain what happens when Kyurem, Reshiram, and Zekrom all fuse together. I mean, something has to happen. It just makes sense. Especially if they continue with the narrative and how

Spoiler

N gives his dragon to the player in Black2/White2, meaning the player has all of the dragons

.

It'd just be sorta weird if only Kyurem could only fuse with one of them at a time, especially considering they were all once the same Pokemon.

EDIT OF FIDELITY: Disregard the spoilers, because they aren't accurate and are therefore not spoilers.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, the player only has all of the Dragons if they trade over the one they didn't get from N.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Yup, I'm a dumb butt. For some reason I thought you could get the other dragon without trading.

But still, they need to all three fuse, if for no other reason than to see what the original dragon looked like.

 

[Reyson]

So, yeah, bringing back an old subject that got buried, pra_mai.
Plusle and Minun or Random Box? Why is it so?

More importantly, who cares? Seems doubtful that they'd get in for SM4SH so what's the point?

 

[SmasherMaster]

Two random feasible Pokemon. One that follows the other. mystery dungeon rep.

 

[Deleted member]

More importantly, who cares? Seems doubtful that they'd get in for SM4SH so what's the point?

Good thinking. Who cares that Dedede was planned for Smash 64? It's very doubtful he'd get in Brawl since we already got Meta Knight and, wait a minute....

The point is, Sakurai tends to look back on older ideas that didn't quite make the cut. Whether or not the characters seem "doubtful" or not to you doesn't change the fact that it is still unknown whether or not it actually WAS them or not. If it was, then they are possible for a future game, be it "SM4SH" or otherwise. If it wasn't, then it will be known for a fact that they will not show up as a character; similar to the Meowth situation where people thought he was planned for Smash 64, but there is no legitimate proof on that, so it can't be claimed accurate anymore.

So to answer your question, I bloody care.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only thing I could see that's bad about Plusle & Minun is that they may be Pikachu clones. On the other hand, there's two, so even then, they'd still play differently in some way. More than Pichu did.

On a quick tangent, despite the clones existing, unless the character was really bad(Brawl!Ganondorf), I enjoyed playing as them anyway. And I still like to play as him, despite this. Although a casual battle using him to defeat an amateur Meta Knight. Was kind of fun, you know.

I'm hoping they make the clones differentiated enough like they did in Brawl. And make Ganondorf not suck so much.(I would've been happy if he was as good as Brawl!Bowser, yeish.) Same with regular Link and Zelda, to say the least.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Personally when it comes to characters, the idea of revisiting the abandoned newcomers (note the key word) Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik/Tetra, and Plusle & Minun (presuming) would make sense but would feel very underwhelming.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Add in a Ridley as well, and any returning 3rd party characters(or a new one if applicable).

 

[Deleted member]

There would be others.

Remember, Mewtwo and Bowser got in Melee after being scrapped from 64, while Dedede got in Brawl after being scrapped alongside them.
Lucas was planned to be Ness' replacement, but his game was cancelled. It was released later for the GBA, and he got in Brawl albiet alongside the one he intended to replace.
If what was said about Snake is true, then Snake was brought up in Melee's time, but was discussed too late to be included.
Sakurai considered a Trainer concept for Melee (but with Johto starters), which later evolved (pun slightly intended) into the Pokemon Trainer of Brawl.
Supposedly, Wolf was planned for 64 alongside Bowser, Mewtwo, and Dedede and scrapped as well. He was also said to have been initially planned as the Fox clone in Melee before Falco was decided upon.
Same source that brings up the Wolf and Trainer point mentions that Wario was considered as the Mario clone instead of Dr. Mario, but Sakurai felt that he "deserved more" than that.

With the evolution of ideas, it could affect the abandoned Newcomers for Brawl as well, specifically Toon Zelda and Dixie Kong. For example, if Toon Sheik was literally a Toon Sheik and not just codename for Tetra (like Pikmin being code for Olimar), then it could be changed to Tetra or even Phantom Zelda. Dixie was planned as a partner to Diddy, and now that Diddy is seperate, the original concept could still be done, but with Kiddy instead of Diddy, like in DKC3.

Also, we could also have Starfy, if he in fact was considered.
Or even Animal Crossing Boy, who Sakurai said he considered and could make fight by using things like a shovel and bug net, but felt he needed to prioritize characters who would make more sense as fighters due to characters being limited. At this point, there isn't much that could be considered priority, so it's possible he could revisit the Animal Crossing Boy idea.

EDIT: And these are just the characters that were considered.

 

[Arcadenik]

I wouldn't mind a new Pokemon Trainer with Johto starters (better idea for a 2nd gen rep than Pichu IMO) and I am fine with the idea of a playable Animal Crossing villager. I doubt Tom Nook would get in over the actual protagonists of the franchise (and Sakurai did consider the human characters, not Tom Nook nor any of the other furries). I am hoping for Dixie Kong and Starfy to finally get in the roster. I loved the original Donkey Kong Country trilogy on the SNES and I really liked The Legendary Starfy on the DS. I loathe the idea of Toon Sheik. Give me Tetra or don't bother adding Toon Zelda at all.

 

[lobotheduck21]

I wouldn't mind a new Pokemon Trainer with Johto starters (better idea for a 2nd gen rep than Pichu IMO) and I am fine with the idea of a playable Animal Crossing villager. I doubt Tom Nook would get in over the actual protagonists of the franchise (and Sakurai did consider the human characters, not Tom Nook nor any of the other furries). I am hoping for Dixie Kong and Starfy to finally get in the roster. I loved the original Donkey Kong Country trilogy on the SNES and I really liked The Legendary Starfy on the DS. I loathe the idea of Toon Sheik. Give me Tetra or don't bother adding Toon Zelda at all.

Gold/Ethan is the one PT that I wouldn't mind replacing red (due to the fact that gen 4 or 5 don't all seem the plausible, and I find gen 3 to be way over rated.)

 

[SmasherMaster]

Any other 2nd gen chaarcter is better than Pichu. Even Unown

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Unown can't learn anything beyond Hidden Power. So... no. Pichu is far better on all fronts.

And Red is still not in Smash, people. His likeness is shown through 3rd Gen PT, who actually is in the game. There's not the same character or person.

At best, he's accurately called 1st Gen Pokemon Trainer, and that's it.

I wouldn't mind 3rd Gen being put in, though. That could work even better than Plusle & Minun. Or, in the case that they don't want to remove Charizard, just three Pokemon, one from the first three Gens works well. Charizard, 2nd, 3rd.(who you want to add is a matter of opinion, so I won't go into that). You wouldn't even have to change PT's base appearance, although he could have costumes for every Gen Male/Female regardless.(what it's tied to matters little, perhaps)

 

[lobotheduck21]

Any other 2nd gen chaarcter is better than Pichu. Even Unown

Imagine the memes that would come from unown being in ssb4, HIDDEN POWER!!!!

 

[Reyson]

Plusle and Minun were the Pikachu rip-offs of their generation, with that generation gone and those two never becoming their own characters, what's the point in having them at all? The other characters you mentioned maintained their popularity, those two didn't. They aren't interesting, they aren't unique and they aren't that popular.

 

[lobotheduck21]

And Red is still not in Smash, people. His likeness is shown through 3rd Gen PT, who actually is in the game. There's not the same character or person.

At best, he's accurately called 1st Gen Pokemon Trainer, and that's it.

I think your abra used confuse on me, cause that sentence doesn't make any sense to me. plz rephrase it

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think your abra used confuse on me, cause that sentence doesn't make any sense to me. plz rephrase it

Nope. It's what I said.

The character in Smash is simply a generic 1st Generation Pokemon Trainer and nothing more. Red does not exist in Smash by any means. Not in Brawl anyway. He's not called Red because he actually isn't him. The likeness is used, that's all.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Nope. It's what I said.

The character in Smash is simply a generic 1st Generation Pokemon Trainer and nothing more. Red does not exist in Smash by any means. Not in Brawl anyway. He's not called Red because he actually isn't him. The likeness is used, that's all.

This is so meta.