Rosalina nerf imminent with patch 1.04?

[King Donkey Kong]

This is a good start.

 

[Warlock*G]

This is a good start.

And a good end too.

 

[Clemente]

That's much harder than you think when you're dealing with anyone who can easily outreach Rosalina. And since the Luma is quite easy to take out, this will hurt Rosalina even more, now that the time it takes for a new Luma to spawn is going to be longer.

Hate to say it, but I told you so.

I said she's OP, you guys all attack me and say she's not that good. Then she starts winning tournaments and being picked by every top player.

I said she'll get nerfed, you guys say NO WAY! Clearly Sakurai & co. agree with me. Nerfed.

I'm hearing rumors that her aerial hitboxes are nerfed too. GG

 

[Warlock*G]

Hate to say it, but I told you so.

I said she's OP, you guys all attack me and say she's not that good. Then she starts winning tournaments and being picked by every top player.

I said she'll get nerfed, you guys say NO WAY! Clearly Sakurai & co. agree with me. Nerfed.

I'm hearing rumors that her aerial hitboxes are nerfed too. GG

And I'm hearing rumors that they're not.

Why so serious Clemente?

 

[Tino]

If that's the only nerf they gave to Rosalina, then I don't mind at all, although unnecessary. People have been whining and complaining about her being too overpowered yet they're too blind to even notice her weakness, which has been staring at them across the face from the start.

 

[HiNiTe]

Hate to say it, but I told you so.

I said she's OP, you guys all attack me and say she's not that good. Then she starts winning tournaments and being picked by every top player.

I said she'll get nerfed, you guys say NO WAY! Clearly Sakurai & co. agree with me. Nerfed.

I'm hearing rumors that her aerial hitboxes are nerfed too. GG

Unless you have your head up your ass, she's actually the least-used of the percieved "top" tiers and you're implying that she is being used by every top player because she's "OP" in your opinion. If she was OP, in the same vein as Meta Knight, she'd definitely be used much more than that, but she isn't. Sheik and Diddy are overused far much more; in fact, she has only won a few tournaments, Sheik and Diddy are equally up there with her (even Greninja because of Nietono.) Also, her nerf is arguably minuscule, Rosalina can just roll and play defensively as always but now she just has to do it a bit longer. Also, judging by your postbit, you main Pit, who has an incredibly bad matchup against Rosalina; sorry to hear that. None of the top players complain about her to the degree as a regular person on this forum.

Putting false rumors everywhere won't do anything, you're the only person I've ever seen say these rumors.

 

[Clemente]

And I'm hearing rumors that they're not.

Why so serious Clemente?

I'm not serious at all. In fact I'm laughing it up. Git nerfed.

And yeah, her aerials are nerfed. One look at a Wii U gameplay video will tell you that much, and even people who have an advanced copy are saying the same thing.

Along with 150% respawn time on Luma.

I thought she was "totally balanced"? Gimme ur tears babe

 

[Princess Diana]

I find it ridiculous that Rosalina's getting a nerf before the main console version of the game has even been released. The 3DS environment with limited control input is not a good way to decide if a character is "overpowered" or not.

Not only that but some characters are purposely balanced so that they perform better in a 1 on 1, 2 v 2, or Free for All environment. Rosalina is absolutely horrid in Free for All's and Luma is basically a non-entity in battles that are not 1 on 1 as it is almost immediately KO'd through all the commotion.

I would be fine with this if it actually happened after the game and players had more time to develop and evolve with their characters. The only thing about Rosalina that needed to be changed was the infinite combo she could (very rarely) perform on two of the cast.

 

[Warlock*G]

I'm not serious at all. In fact I'm laughing it up.

Ok. That makes two of us.

Git nerfed.

Show me ya moves.

And yeah, her aerials are nerfed. One look at a Wii U gameplay video will tell you that much, and even people who have an advanced copy are saying the same thing.

Alright.

Along with 150% respawn time on Luma.

Fine.

I thought she was "totally balanced"?

Well I never thought that, nor did I say that she was "totally balanced" because I don't jump to conclusions. The only thing I ever said was that we needed to wait and see. Which is still what I'm going to do, post-nerf(s).

Gimme ur tears babe

None to spare, kiddo. Not over a game.

 

[Iron Kraken]

And yeah, her aerials are nerfed. One look at a Wii U gameplay video will tell you that much, and even people who have an advanced copy are saying the same thing.

Link to a video that demonstrates her aerials being nerfed, please. Or link to someone credible claiming that her aerials have been nerfed.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Link to a video that demonstrates her aerials being nerfed, please. Or link to someone credible claiming that her aerials have been nerfed.

I don't even play RosaLuma but I've been keeping updated and yeah I'd like confirmation too cause I see it nowhere.

 

[Tino]

And yeah, her aerials are nerfed. One look at a Wii U gameplay video will tell you that much, and even people who have an advanced copy are saying the same thing.

Where's the proof?

 

[Clemente]

I find it ridiculous that Rosalina's getting a nerf before the main console version of the game has even been released. The 3DS environment with limited control input is not a good way to decide if a character is "overpowered" or not.

Not only that but some characters are purposely balanced so that they perform better in a 1 on 1, 2 v 2, or Free for All environment. Rosalina is absolutely horrid in Free for All's and Luma is basically a non-entity in battles that are not 1 on 1 as it is almost immediately KO'd through all the commotion.

I would be fine with this if it actually happened after the game and players had more time to develop and evolve with their characters. The only thing about Rosalina that needed to be changed was the infinite combo she could (very rarely) perform on two of the cast.

Sorry, but please do explain how different controls were going to change the OP nature of Rosalina's aerials and Luma respawn time.

Just face the fact that Sakurai & his team are very aware of how OP she is, and more nerfs are probably on the way for her.

 

[Warlock*G]

Sorry, but please do explain how different controls were going to change the OP nature of Rosalina's aerials and Luma respawn time.

As a Falcon main, let me explain. Some characters (such as ) can perform maneuvers that are difficult to pull off on the 3DS's controls, but can be done with relative ease using an NGC controller.

Different controls thus change what a some characters are consistently capable of, changing the meta-game and so changing where they stand compared to other characters (and among these characters, Rosalina).

This is why some people consider most nerfs to be premature at this point, no matter which character they apply to. When I posted that the Luma nerf was "a good end", I merely meant that nerfs should stop for now, until we have more data, such as which character wins the most tourneys - for instance. In short, if it's too soon for a tier list, it's too soon for nerfs.

Ultimately though, the nerfs are obviously not our call, so you should all chill and take this with a grain of salt. Here's the track I'm listening to right now:

 

[Iron Kraken]

So for how much longer are the threads on this forum going to continue to be hijacked by @ Clemente trying to get under people's skin?

 

[Clemente]

As a Falcon main, let me explain. Some characters (such as ) can perform maneuvers that are difficult to pull off on the 3DS's controls, but can be done with relative ease using an NGC controller.

Different controls thus change what a some characters are consistently capable of, changing the meta-game and so changing where they stand compared to other characters (and among these characters, Rosalina).

This is why some people consider most nerfs to be premature at this point, no matter which character they apply to. When I posted that the Luma nerf was "a good end", I merely meant that nerfs should stop for now, until we have more data, such as which character wins the most tourneys - for instance. In short, if it's too soon for a tier list, it's too soon for nerfs.

Ultimately though, the nerfs are obviously not our call, so you should all chill and take this with a grain of salt. Here's the track I'm listening to right now

Strongly disagree, balance will certainly change to an extent on the Wii U with the c stick available and more comfortable controls, but Rosalina's strengths really have nothing to do with controls.

(either on her end, or other characters having an easier time vs. those strengths with the Wii U controls)

So for how much longer are the threads on this forum going to continue to be hijacked by @ Clemente trying to get under people's skin?

I'm not "trying" to get under anyone's skin. I'm just posting my opinion. You're clearly a Rosalina main and that's why you're offended, but I can't be blamed for that. Your character is OP, she will be nerfed (and I highly doubt this will be the only nerf, there are probably more Rosalina nerfs on the way).

If you get upset by me saying that, it's on you.

 

[ChikoLad]

Sorry, but please do explain how different controls were going to change the OP nature of Rosalina's aerials and Luma respawn time.

Just face the fact that Sakurai & his team are very aware of how OP she is, and more nerfs are probably on the way for her.

OK I've kind of had enough of this. Crap like this is what's dulling the Rosalina boards.

You keep whining about how OP she is yet you've never once made a cohesive argument as to why. All you do is make baseless claims (normally totally out of the blue) and proceed to taunt other people about it. You couldn't be more ahead of yourself, you act like you're right before anyone can respond. It comes across as some form of mental defense mechanism, like you MUST announce how right you are before you are inevitably proven wrong, and that somehow makes you more right than normal?

Furthermore, the "nerf" she got means absolutely nothing. If you're already **** at getting rid of Luma and dealing with SoRo (and I am going to assume you are because of how much you whine about her being OP - also you main one of the worst characters to use against her), then this nerf does not make things any easier for you AT ALL. I'd argue that it will make you have a harder time against Rosalina, because while you just lie back on and rely on nerfs to defeat Rosalina, the Rosalina players will simply start playing smarter and will pummel you in this game (and from your posts over the past few months, I highly doubt you have ONCE faced a truly good Rosalina).

TL;DR: Play the game rather than rely on irrelevant "nerfs" to boost your Smash ego.

I'm not "trying" to get under anyone's skin. I'm just posting my opinion. You're clearly a Rosalina main and that's why you're offended, but I can't be blamed for that. Your character is OP, she will be nerfed (and I highly doubt this will be the only nerf, there are probably more Rosalina nerfs on the way).

Yes, posting obnoxious GIFs of Eric Cartman drinking Scott Tenorman's tears is TOTALLY not an attempt at getting under people's skin.

Nobody is offended by you. You are just repetitive, you post the same stuff all of the time, and none of it is productive.

Maybe that is reflective of your Smash playstyle, and thus, the root of your problem...

 

[Clemente]

OK I've kind of had enough of this. Crap like this is what's dulling the Rosalina boards.

You keep whining about how OP she is yet you've never once made a cohesive argument as to why.

Yet clearly Sakurai agrees with me.

Yes, posting obnoxious GIFs of Eric Cartman drinking Scott Tenorman's tears is TOTALLY not an attempt at getting under people's skin.

It's a lighthearted, funny GIF... seriously?

 

[Warlock*G]

Strongly disagree, balance will certainly change to an extent on the Wii U with the c stick available and more comfortable controls, but Rosalina's strengths really have nothing to do with controls.

Strength is, by definition, relative. Rosalina is strong only in relation to other characters. Controls being more convenient will make certain characters stronger. This is is the most streamlined I can make it.

Besides, you just admitted that:

balance will certainly change to an extent on the Wii U

Unless you know precisely to which extent it will change, and how, you should not be wanting any precipitated changes to the game's balance, as we know so little about it still. How can you calibrate something that's so poorly defined? Well you can do a crapshoot. This is what's coming our way...

...and again, it's alright people. Let's all sing kumbaya or something.

 

[ChikoLad]

Yet clearly Sakurai agrees with me.



It's a lighthearted, funny GIF... seriously?

How do you know what Sakurai thinks?

What if he goes back on it, or buffs Rosalina in some other way in the future? Or nerfs Pit? Would you still claim to be one with him then?

Sakurai had his own reasons for doing this. They are not reflective of us Westerners at all.

And the GIF is fine, I was just pointing out how it's clearly meant to be antagonistic (it certainly is in the actual episode of South Park). You denying that you are intentionally aiming to rile people up is what's ridiculous. Just pointing that out.

 

[Clemente]

Strength is, by definition, relative. Rosalina is strong only in relation to other characters. Controls being more convenient will make certain characters stronger. This is is the most streamlined I can make it.

Besides, you just admitted that:


Unless you know precisely to which extent it will change, and how, you should not be wanting any precipitated changes to the game's balance, as we know so little about it still. How can you calibrate something that's so poorly defined? Well you can do a crapshoot. This is what's coming our way...

...and again, it's alright people. Let's all sing kumbaya or something.

Because I think certain characters/maneuvers will be a lot easier on the Wii U, but I don't see how the puppet mechanics and Luma being too penalty/risk free could possibly change. You're trying to convince me that it was too soon for a nerf based on our agreement on the vague idea that "balance will change", but if you focus completely on Luma, it's perfectly justified and not too soon IMO.

We can just agree to disagree. But I have my own opinions, I take offense to trolls like sonicbrawler acting like I'm 'trying to get under people's skin' because I actually agree with the dev team in nerfing Rosalina.

Sorry your main got nerfed (and most likely will get nerfed more in the future) sonicbrawler. Don't rage/take it out on me.

 

[ChikoLad]

Because I think certain characters/maneuvers will be a lot easier on the Wii U, but I don't see how the puppet mechanics and Luma being too penalty/risk free could possibly change. You're trying to convince me that it was too soon for a nerf based on our agreement on the vague idea that "balance will change", but if you focus completely on Luma, it's perfectly justified and not too soon IMO.

We can just agree to disagree. But I have my own opinions, I take offense to trolls like sonicbrawler acting like I'm 'trying to get under people's skin' because I actually agree with the dev team in nerfing Rosalina.

Sorry your main got nerfed (and most likely will get nerfed more in the future) sonicbrawler. Don't rage/take it out on me.

Well aren't you just a precious little snowflake.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

At this point, it's probably best that we stop arguing over just one nerf. The nerf simply requires Rosalina to stall for a longer time period, and that's all that we know. Beyond that, I doubt that we'll see any more nerfs.

If you can't beat Rosalina, then you basically need to fight better. Asking for someone to get nerfed, just because you can't beat him/her is just silly.

 

[Iron Kraken]

@ Clemente , I've seen many of your posts and I've never commented before because I don't really care, but at this point I decided to call you out because it seems like it's been over a month of you blatantly trolling.

And yes, you are trolling, as much as you like to pretend you're not (I have no doubt that you genuinely believe you're not trolling, you just happen to be wrong).

It wouldn't be a problem for you to make an argument for why Rosalina is overpowered and you feel she should be nerfed. The issue is that every time I see you posting, it's always something along the lines of "Rosalina & Luma mains just can't accept that their character is OP LOLOLOLOL so salty LOLOLOLOL." I'm paraphrasing, but that's pretty much what you do again and again.

 

[Clemente]

At this point, it's probably best that we stop arguing over just one nerf. The nerf simply requires Rosalina to stall for a longer time period, and that's all that we know. Beyond that, I doubt that we'll see any more nerfs.

If you can't beat Rosalina, then you basically need to fight better. Asking for someone to get nerfed, just because you can't beat him/her is just silly.

Well, I never "asked" for Rosalina to get nerfed. I just predicted/expected it (and I do expect further nerfs/balancing beyond the Luma respawn timer).

It's a little presumptuous to say that I only predict nerfs because I lose to Rosalina, especially since I became most critical of Rosalina after using her myself pretty extensively & truly understanding how OP she is from that perspective.

@ Clemente , I've seen many of your posts and I've never commented before because I don't really care, but at this point I decided to call you out because it seems like it's been over a month of you blatantly trolling.

And yes, you are trolling, as much as you like to pretend you're not (I have no doubt that you genuinely believe you're not trolling, you just happen to be wrong).

It wouldn't be a problem for you to make an argument for why Rosalina is overpowered and you feel she should be nerfed. The issue is that every time I see you posting, it's always something along the lines of "Rosalina & Luma mains just can't accept that their character is OP LOLOLOLOL so salty LOLOLOLOL." I'm paraphrasing, but that's pretty much what you do again and again.

No offense, but I think you're just in "defense mode" when it comes to your main character being nerfed, so you interpret my posts in that way. You have to look at intention.

Rosalina is being nerfed, and almost definitely will receive more nerfs in the future, but I'm not rubbing it in anyone's face.

 

[ChikoLad]

It's a little presumptuous to say that I only predict nerfs because I lose to Rosalina, especially since I became most critical of Rosalina after using her myself pretty extensively & truly understanding how OP she is from that perspective.

And that's presumptuous in and of itself, as you may simply have been facing sub-par players.

 

[Warlock*G]

Because I think certain characters/maneuvers will be a lot easier on the Wii U, but I don't see how the puppet mechanics and Luma being too penalty/risk free could possibly change. You're trying to convince me that it was too soon for a nerf based on our agreement on the vague idea that "balance will change", but if you focus completely on Luma, it's perfectly justified and not too soon IMO.

Oh no. I agree with you about the Luma nerf; I think it makes sense (although it may also be premature, who are we to judge so soon...). In fact, I was arguing about nerfs in general, about the game as a whole.

 

[icraq]

Well this thread has certainly sparked some very constructive discussion... Back on topic, someone asked if it will change at all how they play? For me, yes, I've been focusing on maintaining control over mid stage to better Luma's chances of survival. I've also pretty much stopped separating Luma from Rosalina with neutralB, which sadly is one of the most fun things to do with the character. Also, practicing stalling via UpBing from ledge to ledge some more. While I think the nerf had good intention, it's going to just mean an even slower paced game.

 

[ChikoLad]

The "nerf" won't effect me at all, at least not while Luma is out. I see no point in holding back if other characters remain unchanged, since I could deal with them before.

 

[King Donkey Kong]

her weakness

 

[Tino]

Did you even read the whole thing before replying? Or are you admitting that she isn't really that OP as most people claim?

 

[Iron Kraken]

No offense, but I think you're just in "defense mode" when it comes to your main character being nerfed, so you interpret my posts in that way. You have to look at intention.

Rosalina is being nerfed, and almost definitely will receive more nerfs in the future, but I'm not rubbing it in anyone's face.

"No offense" is a terrible way to start any sentence. Trust me, just don't use it.

A simple look through my brief post history would reveal that I think Rosalina is the best character in the game, or at least certainly in the running with a few other characters like Diddy Kong, Lucario, and Sheik. So I have no problem with the Luma respawn time being increased. I think it's a fair balance. I hope that going forward Sakurai continues to make appropriate adjustments (one in particular that I want is a nerf to Lucario's aura). As long as the adjustments don't fundamentally change the characters, and the balance changes are implemented gracefully and rarely, I'm totally on board with them.

So my response to Luma's respawn time being increased is "Meh, seems fair enough."

The issue is that your posts are absolutely antagonistic, whether or not you realize it. You write every post like you're trying to get under people's skin. Your use of the phrase "no offense" is a perfect example of this. If you could write in a more respectful tone, your thoughts on Rosalina might have been welcome. But instead you've been an annoying antagonist.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

By far the most frustrating character for me to fight, so I'm pleased to hear this on a personal level.

The notion that nerfs aren't the answer, git guding is the answer, is a pretty biased lens, or so I'd think, considering with that logic nothing could be appropriately nerfed, since if the opponent just got better it'd be less of a problem (well duh). We should be a bit more open to change if it's intended to holistically improve the roster. It benefits the game, which is more important than our mains remaining as strong as possible.

The notion that it is unnecessary is questionable considering that this topic of Rosalina being overpowered in match-ups has been quite prevalent, and honestly touching the respawn timer is an incredibly innocuous way to go about this so I'm surprised why all of you aren't swiping your brows in relief. Hell, all of you are already talking about how you intend to just camp more during that time, and as someone mentioned before, having the Luma aspect be gone for mere moments almost makes the feature of it dying "unnecessary"; and also mentioned was that a player just trying to get back on stage engulfs this window.

The notion that it is too early for nerf patches is strange because it seems to assume that this is how things will be from now on. The point of patches is to try and polish the game, I'd rather them be frequent and slight in effect to maximize testing and allow seemless transitions for the players. If this is a misstep, they can realign themselves, but they won't know until they make those steps. Besides, they've all been playing the game much longer than any of us and know way more than we might ever understand as the consumer.

In fact, probably noted already is that this is great news. Knowing that we're possibly being listened to and that alterations to the game's characters is a thing is an amazing thing. We need more of this, Smash 4 can improve drastically through this method. I'm not here trying to argue this or that about OP-ness, just pitching in on this concept.

 

[ChikoLad]

By far the most frustrating character for me to fight, so I'm pleased to hear this on a personal level.

The notion that nerfs aren't the answer, git guding is the answer, is a pretty biased lens, or so I'd think, considering with that logic nothing could be appropriately nerfed, since if the opponent just got better it'd be less of a problem (well duh). We should be a bit more open to change if it's intended to holistically improve the roster. It benefits the game, which is more important than our mains remaining as strong as possible.

The notion that it is unnecessary is questionable considering that this topic of Rosalina being overpowered in match-ups has been quite prevalent, and honestly touching the respawn timer is an incredibly innocuous way to go about this so I'm surprised why all of you aren't swiping your brows in relief. Hell, all of you are already talking about how you intend to just camp more during that time, and as someone mentioned before, having the Luma aspect be gone for mere moments almost makes the feature of it dying "unnecessary"; and also mentioned was that a player just trying to get back on stage engulfs this window.

The notion that it is too early for nerf patches is strange because it seems to assume that this is how things will be from now on. The point of patches is to try and polish the game, I'd rather them be frequent and slight in effect to maximize testing and allow seemless transitions for the players. If this is a misstep, they can realign themselves, but they won't know until they make those steps. Besides, they've all been playing the game much longer than any of us and know way more than we might ever understand as the consumer.

In fact, probably noted already is that this is great news. Knowing that we're possibly being listened to and that alterations to the game's characters is a thing is an amazing thing. We need more of this, Smash 4 can improve drastically through this method. I'm not here trying to argue this or that about OP-ness, just pitching in on this concept.

Rosalina is one of your most frustrating match-ups because you main Bowser Jr, and it has absolutely nothing to do with Luma's respawn time, and very little to do with Luma in general.

And the mindset here has less been "git gud" and more "the meta should have been let develop and the Wii U version should have been used as the real testing grounds, but this "nerf" means nothing to me as a Rosalina main in hindsight, so I won't lose sleep over it. It's just a bit unnecessary".

 

[Clemente]

Rosalina is one of your most frustrating match-ups because you main Bowser Jr, and it has absolutely nothing to do with Luma's respawn time

lmao. I can't

 

[TurnUp]

Shouldn't you guys who play other characters just be happy about the nerf? I am happy that we WILL be getting balance changes, and possibly Rosalina doing really good in her 1 on 1 game made them decide to increase the respawn time, testing if it balances the winrates a bit more against all the characters. This shouldn't be about "I TOLD YOU SO" it should be about how it affects Rosalina and her matchups.

Who knows, it might get changed back if it ends up being too dramatic, maybe the changes will make her too weak and her other moves will be buffed up so she does at least a little better solo.

I think there are more changes to be researched heavily that we don't know of yet.

 

[ChikoLad]

Shouldn't you guys who play other characters just be happy about the nerf? I am happy that we WILL be getting balance changes, and possibly Rosalina doing really good in her solo game made them decide to increase the respawn time, testing if it balances the winrates a bit more against all the characters. This shouldn't be about "I TOLD YOU SO" it should be about how it affects Rosalina and her matchups.

Who knows, it might get changed back if it ends up being too dramatic, maybe the changes will make her too weak and her other moves will be buffed up so she does at least a little better solo.

I think there are more changes to be researched heavily that we don't know of yet.

I'd say this is the best put together and most truthful post in this entire thread.

 

[Warlock*G]

[...]The notion that it is too early for nerf patches is strange because it seems to assume that this is how things will be from now on.

Replace "from now on" with "for a time". Moreover, there are no assumptions; only recommendations. I personally recommend that things stay like this for a time so that this version of the game can be tested more thoroughly before substantial changes are made. (Except for that Luma nerf.)

Anyway, I'm just one player posting on this forum, and I have said all that I needed to say on the matter of nerfs and balance.

[...]In fact, probably noted already is that this is great news. Knowing that we're possibly being listened to and that alterations to the game's characters is a thing is an amazing thing. We need more of this, Smash 4 can improve drastically through this method. I'm not here trying to argue this or that about OP-ness, just pitching in on this concept.

Now that's a positive aspect; almost as good as no random tripping and playable online.

 

[King Donkey Kong]

Did you even read the whole thing before replying? Or are you admitting that she isn't really that OP as most people claim?

Happy a braindead character is getting nerfed, that's all.

 

[ChikoLad]

Happy a braindead character is getting nerfed, that's all.