Rosalina nerf imminent with patch 1.04?

[icraq]

Word is they're patching the 3DS version of smash to be in line with the Wii U version, which according to rumors Luma's respawn timer was increased to 13 seconds in the Wii U version. Has anyone found any evidence to support this? How do you feel about your main being potentially nerfed? I can't foresee a huge difference in my playstyle, I will just have to camp an extra 5 seconds if I lost Luma. Is anyone considering picking up a new main? I hope that's the extent of balancing for Rosa, I'm finding at higher levels of play her usefulness is not quite as broken as people proclaim.

 

[Berserker.]

Not confirmed yet but that doesn't mean it can't be true

 

[ChikoLad]

If this is all they are doing to her, I don't mind. It's completely unnecessary (far too early for balance patches outside of fixing glitches). It won't change much. I could hold out fine before, and would do so even better on Wii U anyway. So this just means I have to hold out another bit longer. That's about the time it takes to do two or three N-airs. Or the time it takes for someone to come back after me sending them off stage.

 

[Parcheesy]

I kinda like it. It provides clear counterplay options for Rosalina's opponents, and gives Rosalina more incentive to care for her Luma. The only downside I see is people might be even more reluctant to send out their Luma for zoning, which could restrict one of the more unique aspects of the character. Overall, it really won't change much.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Yeah it really would just make it a bit less...well, silly I guess. I suppose my best way of explaining it is that it gives other slower characters time to catch up (an additional 5 seconds is actually plenty) and at the same time it's not overly excessive. It also puts a bit more stock on Luma and ups the importance of luma surviving. So yeah, p. fair if you ask me.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Even as Rosalina I sometimes felt that Luma respawned surprisingly fast, so I'm okay with a timer nerf. It's not like Rosalina is incapable of playing defense on her own, and GPull still means she can ignore every projectile ever so they have to approach and make the most of it.

 

[Ryota]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjVF05k0El0
Right at the beginning of this video.

 

[ChikoLad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjVF05k0El0
Right at the beginning of this video.

It's definitely longer. I counted about 13 seconds (from when Luma actually went off screen, not when he was knocked off initially).

However, I wouldn't have realised if I didn't count. So I doubt this will change much. Just means I have to adjust to the new timer.

Again, I just think it was unnecessary. At the end of the day, people need to learn how to deal with Luma more effectively by principle, which requires they get good at taking him out to begin with. So this isn't going to help people that much if they aren't good at taking Luma out already, and at dealing with SoRo.

Similarly, this isn't going to effect Rosalina players who are already good at protecting Luma, and are good with SoRo.

At the very least, people will shut up about her being broken for a little while because "OMG SHE GOTZ NERFED".
Then they will realise players who are better than them are beating them with Rosalina, and they will continue to cry aout her being broken.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Tis a sign from the gods, however. At least this means they're listening to some form of input or something. I think this nerf is pretty big not so much for Rosa but for slow chars that have a tough time running anywhere fast.

Really it just emphasizes smarter play.

 

[many37]

I think this is a nerf for the better. It wouldn't affect Rosalina too drastically and it balances the game more.

 

[ChikoLad]

Tis a sign from the gods, however. At least this means they're listening to some form of input or something. I think this nerf is pretty big not so much for Rosa but for slow chars that have a tough time running anywhere fast.

Really it just emphasizes smarter play.

It does reward her opponents a bit more if they play smartly, but at the same time, it doesn't mean much to those Rosalina players who already play smartly, so I think you hit the nail right on the head there.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Yup, really reasonable change that benefits everybody and shifts things to smarter, more focused gameplay.

If this keeps up we're going in a good direction.

 

[ChikoLad]

My only problem is that it came too early. I mean, the Wii U game isn't out yet. I wanted to see how everyone dealt with the characters in their original states on Wii U before passing true judgement on this game's balance.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm really surprised that they're extending the amount of time it takes for a new Luma to spawn. That's just completely unnecessary if you asked me.

Edit: Okay, I checked the following video out to study how much time will pass before a new Luma spawns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjVF05k0El0

The Luma got KO'd at around 1:56.18; a new one spawned at around 1:43.63. Based on the video, it took about 12.55 seconds for a new Luma to spawn.

 

[-Jax]

Maybe Sakurai is secretly lurking these boards and found reasons to nerf Rosalina & Luma here. We should all mass pretend she's horribly underpowered and make her even stronger!

 

[Indigo Jeans]

The Luma respawn nerf isn't that big of a deal. While you do indeed have more KOing power with Luma, Rosalina isn't entirely defenceless by herself. DTilt and FTilt have great range and are excellent spacing tools, while UAir and DAir actually have their KB sweetspots on Rosalina's part of the attack. You've also got NAir's ridiculous duration. This just means you'll have trouble KOing and will have to play around projectiles more carefully for a whole five seconds longer.

 

[Flapstick]

I feel like this is a comfort nerf cause everyone wants it. Yes she got "nerfed," but no, it won't really affect anything. In a clutch situation, camp for 5 more seconds and we'll still win the game. This isnt't a nerf that'll affect how good she is or how strong Rosalina is as a character.
That said, I think Rosalina is easily the strongest character in Sm4sh. I don't think she needs any nerf bigger than this though.

 

[TurnUp]

In the video, you can notice it takes longer, but it's still a manageable timeframe. My only issue is that Luma seems just as easy to KO anyway.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

In the video, you can notice it takes longer, but it's still a manageable timeframe. My only issue is that Luma seems just as easy to KO anyway.

That's kind of the point. Keeping the Luma safe is a rather big priority if you want Rosalina to KO things more easily. Sure, Rosalina is far from helpless without the Luma, but this does take a toll on her approach options, especially against those who can outreach her with little effort.

 

[ChikoLad]

Rosalina can reliably KO without Luma, just less reliably and you yourself need to be pretty good at using her KO moves. I've recently been noticing that her F-Air gets me a lot of KOs.

 

[TurnUp]

That's kind of the point. Keeping the Luma safe is a rather big priority if you want Rosalina to KO things more easily. Sure, Rosalina is far from helpless without the Luma, but this does take a toll on her approach options, especially against those who can outreach her with little effort.

I just wish it wasn't just one hit and Luma is helpless, either way in a way I'm glad she's getting nerfed so I can stop seeing so many complaints.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Rosalina can reliably KO without Luma, just less reliably and you yourself need to be pretty good at using her KO moves. I've recently been noticing that her F-Air gets me a lot of KOs.

The last hit of FAir is indeed a good KO option, but the move overall is pretty easily telegraphed and hard to approach with because of the hitbox arc imo.

 

[ChikoLad]

But it's also useful in that it shifts her hurt box kinda like N-Air, so you can get tricky with it, especially since Rosalina floats.

 

[AceStarThe3rd]

This nerf is just assumed a nerf IF Luma is KO'd
So, realistically, if Luma is protected and played efficiently with, then the "Rosalina Nerf" is irrelevant, which is why I am open to the change: people can now shut up about Rosa being OP (even though nothing really happened).

 

[Warlock*G]

So if Luma gets KOed I have to hold out for 5 more seconds... ok...

...BUT if Luma gets KOed I have 5 more seconds to knee Rosie in the face. Sweet.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Since I lost my Luma card, I'll switch Rosalina into defense mode, and end my turn.

Sorry, but I just had to say that.

 

[ChikoLad]

So if Luma gets KOed I have to hold out for 5 more seconds... ok...

...BUT if Luma gets KOed I have 5 more seconds to knee Rosie in the face. Sweet.

Falcon gets to have Rosalina show him her moves for 5 more seconds, what a lucky guy!

 

[Warlock*G]

Falcon gets to have Rosalina show him her moves for 5 more seconds, what a lucky guy!

~Come here Rosie. Show me how you bend this and that way. Those moves... oh yesz.
~Sure Douglas, as soon as you come closer so that I can whoop your muscular, toned butt. I'll make you see stars.

 

[ChikoLad]

~Come here Rosie. Show me how you bend this and that way. Those moves... oh yesz.
~Sure Douglas, as soon as you come closer so that I can whoop your muscular, toned butt. I'll make you see stars.

.....UR MAKIN ME SHIP IT

 

[icraq]

Ah, thanks for the videos. I guess the only thing I don't like is it means slower matches potentially, and playing more campy. If only she could recall Luma after it was sent in a tumble..

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

~Come here Rosie. Show me how you bend this and that way. Those moves... oh yesz.
~Sure Douglas, as soon as you come closer so that I can whoop your muscular, toned butt. I'll make you see stars.

It would be even more humorous if Captain Falcon tried taunting Rosalina into attacking him. Of course, Rosalina would know better than to fall for that.

 

[Clemente]

I'm really surprised that they're extending the amount of time it takes for a new Luma to spawn. That's just completely unnecessary if you asked me.

Edit: Okay, I checked the following video out to study how much time will pass before a new Luma spawns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjVF05k0El0

The Luma got KO'd at around 1:56.18; a new one spawned at around 1:43.63. Based on the video, it took about 12.55 seconds for a new Luma to spawn.

The nerf was absolutely necessary. Hopefully her hitboxes get adjusted too. I have been saying since 3DS launch that she'll be nerfed.

 

[Garquille14]

It was very necessary because you could lose the entire opportunity to beat on Rosa if you were sent flying just once. Such a small thing negating your window of opportunity is dumb.

 

[Sleek Media]

Significant nerf IMO that really makes the game less enjoyable for both players. Stalling for an extra 5 seconds isn't exactly hard, but it is boring. It would be acceptable if Luma didn't go down to a single Falcon Kick/Power Pellet/etc (which was supposed to be why the timer was short). This willl have a HUGE impact on teams and FFA where Luma can't be effectively defended. I just hope she was nerfed due to some performance metric rather than all the whining on forums like this.

 

[Warlock*G]

Significant nerf IMO that really makes the game less enjoyable for both players. Stalling for an extra 5 seconds isn't exactly hard, but it is boring. It would be acceptable if Luma didn't go down to a single Falcon Kick/Power Pellet/etc (which was supposed to be why the timer was short). This willl have a HUGE impact on teams and FFA where Luma can't be effectively defended. I just hope she was nerfed due to some performance metric rather than all the whining on forums like this.

Who said you need to stall? Just hit them anyway.

 

[TurnUp]

Significant nerf IMO that really makes the game less enjoyable for both players. Stalling for an extra 5 seconds isn't exactly hard, but it is boring. It would be acceptable if Luma didn't go down to a single Falcon Kick/Power Pellet/etc (which was supposed to be why the timer was short). This willl have a HUGE impact on teams and FFA where Luma can't be effectively defended. I just hope she was nerfed due to some performance metric rather than all the whining on forums like this.

You don't need to stall, Rosalina does have the power to be able to attack while waiting for Luma to come back to get more control of the fight.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Any RosaLuma mains feel like this might change how you play at all?

I was thinking about it, and I think this may cause me to make one slight adjustment. When I play RosaLuma, my natural tendency is to hug the edge of the stage, to make use of Luma's spacing capabilities. The problem with this though is that against certain characters (for example, against Shulk's humungous sword and Dedede's humungous hammer) Luma gets knocked off the stage very easily, even just by shielding and absorbing their attacks.

I never really considered it much of a problem because Luma respawns so quickly anyway... but now that the timer has been increased to 13 seconds (closer to 16 seconds taking into account Luma's tumbling animation), I feel like I need to be more protective of Luma and preventing her from getting knocked off the stage. And in order to do so, I feel like I need to be more proactive about fighting in the middle of the stage. That's not to say that I can't still using Luma's spacing ability and all of Rosalina's defensive tools... It just requires an adjustment in my mindset that against certain characters. It won't change how I approach my opponent, but when I'm on the defense, I'll try to avoid hugging the edge of the stage.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Who said you need to stall? Just hit them anyway.

That's much harder than you think when you're dealing with anyone who can easily outreach Rosalina. And since the Luma is quite easy to take out, this will hurt Rosalina even more, now that the time it takes for a new Luma to spawn is going to be longer.

 

[Kiyosuki]

It may not be a major nerf or affect gameplay all that much, but it's really sensible. What's the point of having Luma even be killable if it just comes back almost momentarily? You might as well just have it not die.

Giving it a little further downtime to me merely justifies it even being kill-able in the first place. In that perspective it really is a matter of balance, since Luma being killable is obviously supposed to be a gameplay mechanic and having that mechanic be such a relatively marginal setback just seems like an oversight to me.

Sure it'll maybe hurt Rosalina gameplay a little bit but it's not like the character's going to be in a terrible place before or after this really, hypothetically if this ends up being true. This just makes the character's design make a bit more sense to me.

 

[Warlock*G]

It may not be a major nerf or affect gameplay all that much, but it's really sensible. What's the point of having Luma even be killable if it just comes back almost momentarily? You might as well just have it not die.

Giving it a little further downtime to me merely justifies it even being kill-able in the first place. In that perspective it really is a matter of balance, since Luma being killable is obviously supposed to be a gameplay mechanic and having that mechanic be such a relatively marginal setback just seems like an oversight to me.

Sure it'll maybe hurt Rosalina gameplay a little bit but it's not like the character's going to be in a terrible place before or after this really, hypothetically if this ends up being true. This just makes the character's design make a bit more sense to me.

I am Warlock*G, and I approve this message.​