Data Rosalina Match-Up Analysis (Obsolete & Succeeded)

[WhiteMageBD]

Wait so if you're saying to use Love if the Rosalina uses shooting star bits, is shooting star bits counted as a projectile? I know the default is treated as an extended hitbox and can't be absorbed/reflected, but I'm unsure about shooting.

That is correct, shooting starbit is considered a projectile and not a physical disjoint that regular starbits is.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Wait so if you're saying to use Love if the Rosalina uses shooting star bits, is shooting star bits counted as a projectile? I know the default is treated as an extended hitbox and can't be absorbed/reflected, but I'm unsure about shooting.

The standard Star Bits do not count as projectiles, so they can't be reflected or absorbed. Floaty Star Bit and Shooting Star Bit are actual projectiles, however, and as such, Zelda can use Nayru's Love to reflect Floaty Star Bit and Shooting Star Bit right back at Rosalina and/or her Luma.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Thanks to both of you, that's very valuable information.

 

[Macchiato]

Oh okay but even if yew hit us while the din is out, itll go the full distance.

Wait nvm ninja'd by BJ

Also Farore's windfall can kill at like 30 and get very surprising spikes at early percents. It's also un-DIable and works in midair

 

[BJN39]

Oh okay but even if yew hit us while the din is out, itll go the full distance.

Wait nvm ninja'd by BJ

Also Farore's windfall can kill at like 30 and get very surprising spikes at early percents. It's also un-DIable and works in midair

Un-DIable? Are you sure? I might have to look into this...

 

[Macchiato]

Un-DIable? Are you sure? I might have to look into this...

I'm like 99% sure

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Overall, in a customs battle, it pays to be prepared, and in Zelda's case, she does have to be careful that she isn't leaving herself wide open for Luma Warp or Shooting Star Bit to get at her face.

As for Rosalina, while she can shield herself from all Din's Fire variations, the Luma can't defend itself at all. Obviously, the Luma helps Rosalina handle Zelda better, so keeping it safe is a big priority if you don't want Zelda to turn aggressive on you.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm not gonna give a number on this because I'm honestly quite sick of trying to use one, but I have absolutely no problems against Zelda.

I'm seeing a lot of focus on "Zelda can get rid of Luma easily". Ignoring the fact that this would not be the case with a half decent Rosalina player in play, have you Rosalina mains ever considered just going toe-to-toe with Zelda when Luma is gone? It's really not that hard. Zelda has some powerful attacks, but so does Rosalina, and Rosalina's are faster, have better range, and she has much better maneuverability than Zelda. There is nothing to worry about when going toe to toe with her. If you really have to get Luma back, it shouldn't be too difficult to bait Zelda into a grab. or if the Zelda prefers to try and zone you with Din's Fire, just keep jumping over the thing. Zelda has some high KO power aerials in her back air and forward air, but the sweetspots are incredibly strict, and you can generally tell when the Zelda player is trying to set you up for it - she's more likely to rely on these for KO's, because when you DO hit the sweetspot, these two aerials are Zelda's fastest and strongest KO moves - her Smash attacks pale in comparison. So in most situations, you can safely assume that Zelda will only try to use F-air, B-air, Farore's Wind, and maybe the odd U-air to try and KO you. Everything else leaves her extremely vulnerable and against a character with good maneuverability, is just asking for a punish. However, Rosalina (& Luma) have a greater arsenal of reliable KO moves and don't require timing that's nearly as strict.

Zelda shares a particular trait with a certain other character who has a lot of problems against Rosalina - she's dead slow. Both in movement and attack speed. Yes, she has Din's Fire, but it's awfully telegraphed. It's easier to dodge than Dark Pit's arrows, and those are piss easy to dodge as is. It has a very wide turning angle, and can easily be hopped over. You could probably reach her and punish her before she finishes in a lot of situations.

Similarly, the Phantom is also telegraphed, and unless fully charged, serves as nothing more than a (highly inaccurate - seriously, this guy never gets me, and I can never get people with it when I play as Zelda myself) mid-range attack...it's honestly just a poor man's Luma - big, can be GP'd, barely any health, performs one move, etc, etc - Luma can easily slip by him too. Some Rosalina mains would say there is not much point in using Luma Shot, despite it's utility - if that's the case, you have absolutely no reason to use the Phantom as a Zelda player.

Also, consider a strategy that priortises Rosalina & Luma being separate instead of linked most of the time. Like I said before, Rosalina can take Zelda on her own - there is no need to keep Luma beside you and put him in danger. Keep him separated, that way, he is safer. Then call him back when you really need him for an easier KO, or maybe separate him smartly so that Zelda is cornered.

That's my piece, anyway. It's all I have to say. People can make of it what they will. I have no numerical rating to give, so I guess this post can be ignored in that context.

 

[Macchiato]

I'm not gonna give a number on this because I'm honestly quite sick of trying to use one, but I have absolutely no problems against Zelda.

I'm seeing a lot of focus on "Zelda can get rid of Luma easily". Ignoring the fact that this would not be the case with a half decent Rosalina player in play, have you Rosalina mains ever considered just going toe-to-toe with Zelda when Luma is gone? It's really not that hard. Zelda has some powerful attacks, but so does Rosalina, and Rosalina's are faster, have better range, and she has much better maneuverability than Zelda. There is nothing to worry about when going toe to toe with her. If you really have to get Luma back, it shouldn't be too difficult to bait Zelda into a grab. or if the Zelda prefers to try and zone you with Din's Fire, just keep jumping over the thing. Zelda has some high KO power aerials in her back air and forward air, but the sweetspots are incredibly strict, and you can generally tell when the Zelda player is trying to set you up for it - she's more likely to rely on these for KO's, because when you DO hit the sweetspot, these two aerials are Zelda's fastest and strongest KO moves - her Smash attacks pale in comparison. So in most situations, you can safely assume that Zelda will only try to use F-air, B-air, Farore's Wind, and maybe the odd U-air to try and KO you. Everything else leaves her extremely vulnerable and against a character with good maneuverability, is just asking for a punish. However, Rosalina (& Luma) have a greater arsenal of reliable KO moves and don't require timing that's nearly as strict.

Zelda shares a particular trait with a certain other character who has a lot of problems against Rosalina - she's dead slow. Both in movement and attack speed. Yes, she has Din's Fire, but it's awfully telegraphed. It's easier to dodge than Dark Pit's arrows, and those are piss easy to dodge as is. It has a very wide turning angle, and can easily be hopped over. You could probably reach her and punish her before she finishes in a lot of situations.

Similarly, the Phantom is also telegraphed, and unless fully charged, serves as nothing more than a (highly inaccurate - seriously, this guy never gets me, and I can never get people with it when I play as Zelda myself) mid-range attack...it's honestly just a poor man's Luma - big, can be GP'd, barely any health, performs one move, etc, etc - Luma can easily slip by him too. Some Rosalina mains would say there is not much point in using Luma Shot, despite it's utility - if that's the case, you have absolutely no reason to use the Phantom as a Zelda player.

Also, consider a strategy that priortises Rosalina & Luma being separate instead of linked most of the time. Like I said before, Rosalina can take Zelda on her own - there is no need to keep Luma beside you and put him in danger. Keep him separated, that way, he is safer. Then call him back when you really need him for an easier KO, or maybe separate him smartly so that Zelda is cornered.

That's my piece, anyway. It's all I have to say. People can make of it what they will. I have no numerical rating to give, so I guess this post can be ignored in that context.

Actually, no its not easy to go toe to toe with Zelda. Every mistake will be heavily punished. We barely use Din's fire like after lumas done, we won't use dins fire. We also have as much range as her too. Our Fsmash out ranges most of her moves. Even against professional Rosies, a dash attack will get rid of Luma. Also Zelda will bait Rosie for a Lightning kick. Zelda kills her at like 65% while she has to kill Zelda at 90%. Also know that Zelda has a true kill combo too which is dthrow to uair. She does beat her in speed and mobility, but Zelda can easily bait a grab too. A Zelda can stop a grab she sees by using nayrus love. Zelda beats rosie without luma. A bunch of the things yew explained aren't really what Zeldas do. The phantom is a edgeguarding tool, due to no hitbox on Rosalinas recovery a Phantom can easily get her.

EDIT: also if Zelda is above 100% The elevator (farores wind oos) will kill her at 30%

 

[ChikoLad]

Actually, no its not easy to go toe to toe with Zelda. Every mistake will be heavily punished. We barely use Din's fire like after lumas done, we won't use dins fire. We also have as much range as her too. Our Fsmash out ranges most of her moves. Even against professional Rosies, a dash attack will get rid of Luma. Also Zelda will bait Rosie for a Lightning kick. Zelda kills her at like 65% while she has to kill Zelda at 90%. Also know that Zelda has a true kill combo too which is dthrow to uair. She does beat her in speed and mobility, but Zelda can easily bait a grab too. A Zelda can stop a grab she sees by using nayrus love. Zelda beats rosie without luma. A bunch of the things yew explained aren't really what Zeldas do. The phantom is a edgeguarding tool, due to no hitbox on Rosalinas recovery a Phantom can easily get her.

EDIT: also if Zelda is above 100% The elevator (farores wind oos) will kill her at 30%

Notice how you immediately ignored my final point.

Your thinking is way too straight forward. Your opponents are thinking outside of the box, and you're thinking plainly in terms of when a certain move can KO (btw your info on when Rosalina can KO is gravely off base).

Also there is no way Zelds F-Smash outranges most of Rosalina's moves. Zelda's arms are not longer than Rosalina's legs.

Also my point on the Phantom does not change based on what you want to use it for. Even for edgeguarding, it's far from a good option.

 

[Macchiato]

Notice how you immediately ignored my final point.

Your thinking is way too straight forward. Your opponents are thinking outside of the box, and you're thinking plainly in terms of when a certain move can KO (btw your info on when Rosalina can KO is gravely off base).

Also there is no way Zelds F-Smash outranges most of Rosalina's moves. Zelda's arms are not longer than Rosalina's legs.

Zelda has many tools to deal with most things, If Rosalina decides to separate from luma. We can farores wind and they wont know which one Zelda will go for. If Rosalina goes defensive, then we can wait for her to approach since we have a projectile and she doesn't. Honestly Rosalina can't kill that early without luma. In this match up luma wont be in there a lot. Actually the only moves that Fsmash doesn't beat are dtilt, dsmash, ftilt, bair, and fair. Honestly, Rosalina is one of my secondaries so ik how she works and your underestimating Zelda. Just because shes slower and less mobile doesn't mean much in this MU.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Oh, so yew gorls think that Rosalina actually BEATS Zelda? Pls, do you even know who you're talking about!?

This is the QUEEN of Smash, sass, and rightfully, of kicking *ss we're talking about. No in damn way can Boozelina flip that hair so majestically, that no hair actually gets flipped she literally makes everyone SD because of her elegance, dominance and impudence. And don't even think about saying that Boozelina has better qualities in her figure.

10 : 0 yewr waifu is sh*t folks get rekt smh :^)

 

[JigglyZelda003]

what a coincidence this matchup is going on the week before we get to Rosie, so i think i'll just be stealing the discussion to copasta into our on matchup summary later.

i'm gonna say this matchup could be evenish once Luma is out of the way, but i feel like Rosies speed gives her a bit more advantage over Zelda since Zelda is a bit sluggish but i do agree with quite a few things of @ Macchiato 's OP.

i haven't fought a good Rosie as Zelda for a long time back when i didn't know the matchup but i know from the lesser skilled ones who can't function without Luma it felt like i had a very good advantage so i'm refraining from further comments and mearly note taking.

Rosie stole our Dsmash so she will never be forgiven for that though.

 

[Macchiato]

what a coincidence this matchup is going on the week before we get to Rosie, so i think i'll just be stealing the discussion to copasta into our on matchup summary later.

i'm gonna say this matchup could be evenish once Luma is out of the way, but i feel like Rosies speed gives her a bit more advantage over Zelda since Zelda is a bit sluggish but i do agree with quite a few things of @ Macchiato 's OP.

i haven't fought a good Rosie as Zelda for a long time back when i didn't know the matchup but i know from the lesser skilled ones who can't function without Luma it felt like i had a very good advantage so i'm refraining from further comments and mearly note taking.

Rosie stole our Dsmash so she will never be forgiven for that though.

and all yew Zelda gorls doubted me when I said that Zelda vs Rosalina is at least even with Rosalina a month ago

 

[ChikoLad]

Eeeeeesh...

I would argue more since you're still greatly underestimating Rosalina's abilities and utility and are gravely misinformed in a lot of aspects, but it's clear that this is more a display of character pride than a productive discussion.

And that's why I pretty much stopped posting here before anyway, so I guess I'll be taking my leave once again.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Hopefully, when round 2 of Rosalina vs. Zelda is underway, there might be some changes to how we see that match-up play out.

@ ChikoLad : I know that you said that you weren't going to input a match-up ratio for the Rosalina vs. Zelda match-up, but your thoughts on the match-up won't exactly hold much water without one.

 

[ChikoLad]

Fine, I'll give it 65:35 in our favour.

 

[Macchiato]

Guys I'll be playing if any of yew wanna play against Zelda. It could help me and yew know the MU a little more

@ ChikoLad your great underrating zelda also.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ Macchiato : There's no point of arguing with sonicbrawler182 at this point. It's his view of the match-up, and only he can choose to change it.

 

[ChikoLad]

Guys I'll be playing if any of yew wanna play against Zelda. It could help me and yew know the MU a little more

@ ChikoLad your great underrating zelda also.

I'm not underestimating her. I recognise that she's got some incredibly strong attacks and can KO us pretty easily if we're not careful.

But so can Bowser, and he's not that much of a problem. But Zelda has more tools and utility than Bowser and is a bit harder to hit, so I don't think she's at as much of a disadvantage as Bowser.

There's also the fact that a lot of this discussion is based solely on Rosalina playing in a specific way, which in a real match scenario, would not actually be the case. Rosalina is what I like to call a "paradigm shifter" - she can be played in so many different ways, meaning she can handle MUs in so many different ways, so you really shouldn't just assume players will use her in one way or another.

At the end of the day, I only gave a numerical rating because for some reason, my number is more important than my actual experience and analysis. So take the number with a grain of salt.

Like I said, this Zelda discussion is just turning into a matter of character pride, so I have no interest in continuing the discussion on my end. Though ye can feel free to keep discussing the MU here until the discussion period is over, of course.

 

[Macchiato]

I'm not underestimating her. I recognise that she's got some incredibly strong attacks and can KO us pretty easily if we're not careful.

But so can Bowser, and he's not that much of a problem. But Zelda has more tools and utility than Bowser and is a bit harder to hit, so I don't think she's at as much of a disadvantage as Bowser.

There's also the fact that a lot of this discussion is based solely on Rosalina playing in a specific way, which in a real match scenario, would not actually be the case. Rosalina is what I like to call a "paradigm shifter" - she can be played in so many different ways, meaning she can handle MUs in so many different ways, so you really shouldn't just assume players will use her in one way or another.

At the end of the day, I only gave a numerical rating because for some reason, my number is more important than my actual experience and analysis. So take the number with a grain of salt.

Like I said, this Zelda discussion is just turning into a matter of character pride, so I have no interest in continuing the discussion on my end. Though ye can feel free to keep discussing the MU here until the discussion period is over, of course.

Thanks for keeping a great arguement

 

[BJN39]

I think the argument of "character pride" might be getting overplayed a bit. But oh well.

But you guys and gals should definitely play some matches against Macchiato though, from what I hear he's actually quite good.

Some actual play through of the MU might also give us something new to look at, which sounds like it could be productive. ^ ^

 

[Macchiato]

If yew dew add me at macchiato94 ^^

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think the argument of "character pride" might be getting overplayed a bit. But oh well.

But you guys and gals should definitely play some matches against Macchiato though, from what I hear he's actually quite good.

Some actual play through of the MU might also give us something new to look at, which sounds like it could be productive. ^ ^

It's also important to keep note that even if everyone is playing at their fullest potential, the skill difference between the two players can play a factor on who will be more likely to win. For instance, while Rosalina does have a small advantage against Wario (based on the 51:49 average that I've gotten during the Wario discussion period), she can still lose to him if the Wario player is more skilled.

 

[BJN39]

It's also important to keep note that even if everyone is playing at their fullest potential, the skill difference between the two players can play a factor on who will be more likely to win. For instance, while Rosalina does have a small advantage against Wario (based on the 51:49 average that I've gotten during the Wario discussion period), she can still lose to him if the Wario player is more skilled.

Pardon me, ^ ^' that's why I brought up Macchiato. My belief is that Macchiato and some of y'all rosalinas at least (Read: Not meant as an insult. <,<) are on the same skill level. Thus, making playing each other appropriate. I completely get skill level making a difference in results. P:

It's also why I didn't include myself, teehee.

 

[ChikoLad]

I think the argument of "character pride" might be getting overplayed a bit. But oh well.

Considering the one post made explicitly to talk up the character with absolutely nothing constructive being said getting over 10 likes, all from Zelda mains (and most of which who haven't even been posting here themselves), coupled with a lot of ignorance of the finer points of how Rosalina players might play and just over how the character functions in general, I'd actually say it's underplayed. But at the same time, there is not much more to say on it other than "don't let your pride get in the way of your head".

As far playing with other players goes, I consider myself at intermediate level with my mains lately (though I've been doing surprisingly well with Sonic), I am by no means a professional player or anything close. I haven't even started to practice ATs too much even though (in Rosalina's case especially) they would greatly improve my performance, and that's not even considering the bad habits I still have to iron out.

I understand how characters might stack up against each other, but I'm not fully confident I could prove that in my play, especially since I've been rusty lately (I rarely get a chance to play against human opponents lately, assuming I play the game at all).

I also don't want to have to worry too much about scheduling matches when I know I don't have a lot of time to do that. Nor do I want to clog my friends list with people I don't know.

 

[BJN39]

Considering the one post made explicitly to talk up the character with absolutely nothing constructive being said getting over 10 likes, all from Zelda mains (and most of which who haven't even been posting here themselves), coupled with a lot of ignorance of the finer points of how Rosalina players might play and just over how the character functions in general, I'd actually say it's underplayed. But at the same time, there is not much more to say on it other than "don't let your pride get in the way of your head".

But your focusing only on that joke post. None of the other Zeldas here is trying to do what he did, but actually discussing our thoughts and notes on the MU. Yes, we found the post amusing so we "liked" it. But I feel we shouldn't all be put off by you as joke info or not being serious on account of one joke post. The reason many Zeldas came and liked it is because the post got brought up in the Zelda social, so plenty of Zelda social regulars went to check it out, and there are a LOT of Zelda social regulars.

As for not battling, I respect that. I myself find it hard as well to schedule online video gaming times.

 

[Macchiato]

As for my big post I put all notes and experience from tournaments I've been in. If yew haven't read my big post its on page 7 @ ChikoLad

 

[ChikoLad]

But your focusing only on that joke post.

"Considering the one post made explicitly to talk up the character with absolutely nothing constructive being said getting over 10 likes, all from Zelda mains (and most of which who haven't even been posting here themselves), coupled with a lot of ignorance of the finer points of how Rosalina players might play and just over how the character functions in general, I'd actually say it's underplayed."

As for my big post I put all notes and experience from tournaments I've been in. If yew haven't read my big post its on page 7 @ ChikoLad

I did read it. Some good points, some bad, but I'm not in the mood to get into it. Like I said, I'll leave you guys to continue talking about it if ye like. Considering the numeric rating system in play and the surplus of Zelda players here, Zelda is going to be officially marked as the advantageous one no matter what I have to say.

 

[Macchiato]

"Considering the one post made explicitly to talk up the character with absolutely nothing constructive being said getting over 10 likes, all from Zelda mains (and most of which who haven't even been posting here themselves), coupled with a lot of ignorance of the finer points of how Rosalina players might play and just over how the character functions in general, I'd actually say it's underplayed."



I did read it. Some good points, some bad, but I'm not in the mood to get into it. Like I said, I'll leave you guys to continue talking about it if ye like. Considering the numeric rating system in play and the surplus of Zelda players here, Zelda is going to be officially marked as the advantageous one no matter what I have to say.

That point is incorrect because even though there are more zeldas here only like 3 contributed to the MU. Yew can't say it was always favor zelda because of that. We have another day, a rosalina or another zelda could put their input.

 

[ChikoLad]

Maybe, but I doubt much will change by then.

 

[Macchiato]

Maybe, but I doubt much will change by then.

Even if yew combine the scores rn it's even. Yew can really use that arguement for any MU.

 

[Brinzy]

Am I the only Zelda that hates this matchup wth a passion?

Rosalina is hard to safely approach. Even if we got rid of Luma early on, she's still got many similar qualities as Zelda with frame rate attacks and general weight and movement. Rosalina's actually a bit faster overall I think... and she also has her share of disjointed attacks.

This match is, at best, a 5:5. At worst it's probably 4:6 in Rosa's favor. It's winnable, but it's really annoying the whole time I feel.

 

[ChikoLad]

Am I the only Zelda that hates this matchup wth a passion?

Rosalina is hard to safely approach. Even if we got rid of Luma early on, she's still got many similar qualities as Zelda with frame rate attacks and general weight and movement. Rosalina's actually a bit faster overall I think... and she also has her share of disjointed attacks.

This match is, at best, a 5:5. At worst it's probably 4:6 in Rosa's favor. It's winnable, but it's really annoying the whole time I feel.

In terms of movement, Rosalina is definitely more nimble than Zelda. Zelda wins in fall speed I think (though that can sometimes be a bad thing in some situations), but Rosalina wins in every other aspect. In fact, her dash speed is actually above average (i.e faster than Mario's), and I know her horizontal air speed is faster than the majority of characters. Zelda does have a nice movement tool in Farore's Wind, so she should make use of that where she can, but it's not always safe to use it.

In terms of attacks, I don't have any exact frame data, but I definitely feel like most of Rosalina's are faster (same with Luma).

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

7-3 in Rosalina favot. Zelda sucks din fire is bac and she hhas nothing threatening to Rosalina. Sorry but dins firr isn't a good enough move to win amy MU. This MU is boring and Zelda one dimensional.

 

[Macchiato]

7-3 in Rosalina favot. Zelda sucks din fire is bac and she hhas nothing threatening to Rosalina. Sorry but dins firr isn't a good enough move to win amy MU. This MU is boring and Zelda one dimensional.

That isn't even an arguement, yes dins fire is bad, but we like barely use it. Her elevator and amazing edgeguarding threatens her. Ummm read the long post about it in page 7

 

[Hyrule Candy]

I think Zelda actually wins this VERY SURPRISING THAT ZELDA HAS A GOOD MU. ZELDAS kill power and Rosalina being easily combined gives Zelda a edge. Also what @ S.F.L.R_9 said can be applied here but I say it's 70-30 favoring Zelda

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ Brinzy : I've put you down as 55:45, as that'll average out your two ratio inputs.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

That isn't even an arguement, yes dins fire is bad, but we like barely use it. Her elevator and amazing edgeguarding threatens her. Ummm read the long post about it in page 7

It's listed as one of your tools to get rid of luma while another guy said to pressure with it. I don't see how Zelda beats a character with more range and better mobility than her. Not to mention having the potential to kill Zelda at dumb early percentages. Honestly opening mu discussion and bringing up dins fire in the first sentence is a good way for me to ignore whst you have tp say. Using it as a " pressure " is even more non sense. But that's just me. With that said Zelda's up B oos is pretty her most threatening option.

 

[Shrokatii]

I wouldn't mind it being in Rosa's favor. Just shows how much skill us Zelda mains have if we can win a disadvantageous MU. ^^