Rosalina & Luma 1.0.6 Patch Notes Discussion and Listings

[CatRaccoonBL]

Patch is coming up everyone on April 15th. So it is now best that we have a thread detailing all the changes to Rosalina that are happening.

We will be asking for help for what changes people have noticed with Rosalina. Please try your best to verify it. Provide as much information on the circumstances on the potential change as possible. Photo and video evidence is the best, but not required.

Here are the current information/rumors on buffs and nerfs -


Buffs (Makes Rosalina better): None so far. (Indirect buff of Diddy Nerf. )

Nerfs (Makes Rosalina worse): Luma has 48 hp compared to 52 previously.

Placement Unsure (Can be seen as either a buff, a nerf, or we can't figure it out) : None so far.

Neutral (A change that really doesn't effect anything at all): None so far.


Please feel free to speculate on potential buff and nerfs, what buffs and nerfs you want to see, and thoughts on the current information/rumors on buffs and nerfs.

Do not, however, fight or name call in this thread. We have had situations in the past about people fighting over Rosalina being overpowered or not and this forum is not the place for it.

To make it clear, no fighting, period. You've been warned.

Edit: Also, Please no, "I told you Sos."

 

[Ingoro]

Can somebody link me to the actual confirmation that 'the' balance patch is coming together with Mewtwo? Because everyone just assumes it and how likely it may seem, i'd still like some confirmation before we're getting into threads like these.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Can somebody link me to the actual confirmation that 'the' balance patch is coming together with Mewtwo? Because everyone just assumes it and how likely it may seem, i'd still like some confirmation before we're getting into threads like these.

It's quite simple.

The act of putting in a new character requires the game to be rebalanced. Mewtwo was designed for the recent patch, so for all we know, he is overpowered in the current one.


Though, more importantly, there is no assuming.

They exactly say in the direct. "April 15th."
(Start from 2:10 and go to 2:18)


Lastly, even if it wasn't coming out on the 15th, the balance patch is still a thing that was confirmed to exist. So there is still a point to this thread.

 

[Ingoro]

It's quite simple.

The act of putting in a new character requires the game to be rebalanced. Mewtwo was designed for the recent patch, so for all we know, he is overpowered in the current one.


Though, more importantly, there is no assuming.

They exactly say in the direct. "April 15th."
(Start from 2:10 and go to 2:18)


Lastly, even if it wasn't coming out on the 15th, the balance patch is still a thing that was confirmed to exist. So there is still a point to this thread.

Yes, that one line from Iwata sounded really solid. Btw, last patch there were a few character unchanged, there's a possibility that they're happy with Rosalina is now and decide to keep her unchanged.

However I'm hoping for buffs, I'll come back to this thread this wednesday. Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You might also have to take into account that you "need" to have the update to use Mewtwo anyway.

 

[mario123007]

You might also have to take into account that you "need" to have the update to use Mewtwo anyway.

God damn, replays will be gona again...
I really hope they don't nerf Rosalina again...

 

[JaggedToaster]

I'm super worried that Lunar Landings are not going to makes it out of this patch alive

 

[ChikoLad]

I actually doubt Rosalina will be effected.

IIRC, the 3DS version was patched not too long ago, and it fixed a few exploits and what not (such as Palutena retaining Super Speed momentum in a jump).

The Wii U version didn't get a matching patch for it as far as I'm aware. So it's possible it's just to bring the two versions in sync again. They also don't specify that the new Wii U patch will be Ver 1.0.3, it could also jump to Ver 1.0.6.

I'm super worried that Lunar Landings are not going to makes it out of this patch alive

They won't remove it, as there is a loading screen tip for it.

I don't see how they could really do it either. Luma can't just stop his aerials on the ground, as then he wouldn't be able to attack when he is on the ground and Rosalina is in the air.

 

[Ingoro]

I actually doubt Rosalina will be effected.

IIRC, the 3DS version was patched not too long ago, and it fixed a few exploits and what not (such as Palutena retaining Super Speed momentum in a jump).

The Wii U version didn't get a matching patch for it as far as I'm aware. So it's possible it's just to bring the two versions in sync again. They also don't specify that the new Wii U patch will be Ver 1.0.3, it could also jump to Ver 1.0.6.



They won't remove it, as there is a loading screen tip for it.

I don't see how they could really do it either. Luma can't just stop his aerials on the ground, as then he wouldn't be able to attack when he is on the ground and Rosalina is in the air.

If you really think they won't be able to actually remove Lunar Landing you're really naive and are underestimating basic programming.

If there's an actual loading screen tip for it, how does the game refer it as?

 

[JohnnyB]

Rosalina & Luma:Standard Air Attack

When Luma is next to Rosalina, if you perform a standard air attack right before landing and then go straight into a dash, Luma will attack while dashing

 

[ChikoLad]

If you really think they won't be able to actually remove Lunar Landing you're really naive and are underestimating basic programming.

If there's an actual loading screen tip for it, how does the game refer it as?

I'm not lacking in knowledge of basic programming, but you seem lacking in game design knowledge and how tweaking even the smallest thing can create a huge domino effect.

The way they've programmed Luma is that he does whatever attack Rosalina does regardless of position. Rosalina does an aerial and Luma is on the ground, Luma does an aerial anyway, and vice versa. Luma ignores his "standing" or "falling/jumping" state to do whatever attack command Rosalina is doing.

With that in mind, there is no feasible way to remove Lunar Landing without completely changing that mechanic first. Lunar Landing is not a mechanic, it's a technique formed from creative use of this mechanic I just described. However, changing the mechanic that the technique uses would not just effect Lunar Landing, but so many other factors too. What's more, he's probably hardcoded to act this way (I can't say for certain as I didn't make the game, but it's the sort of thing that is very likely to be hardcoded). Something that's hardcoded is something that's coded directly in the game's source code, and cannot be easily modified. With that in mind, they can't simply tweak a few values to change how Luma accepts his inputs. Even ignoring the design problems that would cause (such as not only screwing up Lunar Landing, but even getting Luma to use ground attacks off stage for edge guarding, etc, etc), it's not something that can be done through patching without sending out a revised publication of the source code - in other words, game discs or an entirely new eShop software download.

There is no reason they have for changing Lunar Landing. Changing it is likely undoable assuming the way Luma operates is hardcoded, changing how Luma operates just for getting rid of one technique would create a lot of problems in other areas of Rosalina & Luma's design, and it's clearly an intentional technique that they kept (a la wavedashing in Melee) and gave us instructions on how to use.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I think Rosalina is going to be nerfed pretty hard in this patch. So I'm pretty nervous about this patch.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think Rosalina is going to be nerfed pretty hard in this patch. So I'm pretty nervous about this patch.

You could probably say this for any fighter who's in the game.

 

[JohnnyB]

Have they even nerfed anyone espically hard since the game came out? The only one i can think of that *really* suffered was Greninja.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

You could probably say this for any fighter who's in the game.

Na there's a special hatred for Rosalina.

 

[Tino]

They can buff her. They can nerf her. They can do whatever the **** they want, it ain't gonna stop me from playing as her no matter what.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Na there's a special hatred for Rosalina.

I thought that Diddy was hated even more. Tough crowd apparently.

 

[Tino]

Na there's a special hatred for Rosalina.

I eat Rosa haters for lunch, especially with some extra salt in them.

 

[Smasher89]

A buff on the weight would imo make alot of sence, theres so many times where rage and a hit below 50% leads to kills its something to really concider getting rid off, having control most of the match to lose to a mechanic like that is like a concealed form of tripping.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

As nice as it would be to see Rosalina get a weight buff, it would go against what Sakurai said about her in one of his Pic of the Days.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

So my thoughts on the matter of what she should get/what she might get.

Now, I'm perfectly fine with how Rosalina plays, but I do think she should probably get a power shift. Not exactly a nerf though.

I think she just needs to be a bit reworked in terms of damage and knockback.

For example. I think Rosalina's up tilt could use more power while Up-air is weaken. As it stands, there really isn't a reason to use up-tilt, which nerfing Up-air could fix. Rosalina's up-tilt has a lot of risk to it so landing it should be more rewarding.

Next, I think F-tilt should be given more damage. It's a bit riskier then D-tilt so it should be more rewarding.

F-air has barely any reason to be used. It should be given more damage and/or knockback to make it more worthwhile as it is very hard to land efficiently (Rosalina's not Luma's). Maybe to balance make down air weaker since it is pretty easy to land and it has insane knockback in addition to already being able to spike.

Laslty, Luma's up-tilt. It's needs it's base knockback lowered while having knockback growth strengthen. As of now, Luma's up-tilt kills ridiculous on certain platforms and blastzones. At the same time, it takes a long time to kill on more normal situations despite it being a difficult move to land. So if they just added more knockback growth while decreasing the base knockback, all the problems on that up-tilt would be solve.


I don't think Sakurai would be that kind as to give her a powershift instead of straight up nerf. I think Up-air will be nerfed. Maybe down air will get nerfed as well.

Don't know what to say on Lunar Landing. Don't know how it's programmed so can't say how Sakurai could mess with it.


Rosalina is a character who needs to be smartly handled instead of being straight up buffed or nerfed due to her puppeteer nature.

Straight up nerfing he defensive capabilities makes it bad for her as Luma is very easy to get rid off. Same thing for Offensive.

 

[ChikoLad]

Rosalina's moves don't need any changes. Except for maybe giving N-air the old range. And increasing her grab range, and tweaking the angle on her back throw.

 

[Shanoa]

Rosalina's moves don't need any changes. Except for maybe giving N-air the old range. And increasing her grab range, and tweaking the angle on her back throw.

Pretty much this.

She doesn't need any nerfs imo, she is just a complex character that requires players to have good knowledge of the MU in order to defeat (which is where most of the salt is generated), which is the case with basically every character that has any sort of gimmick (Olimar, Little Mac, Lucario, Pacman, Luigi, Diddy, etc...).

If any changes are necessary, tweaks to make her worst moves more usable will be a lot more healthy for the metagame and it'll help Rosalina stay competitive with all of the competition. She definitely isn't a character that is is in need of balance though, a few tweaks or nothing is good enough imo.

 

[ChikoLad]

Honestly most players think she's OP only because they forget they are fighting two different characters, not just the one. I do think she has the potential to be OP in her current form, but it would require someone to not only know her fundamentals down pat, but to master the art of paradigm shifting and using LUMA as a unit, not as a disjoint for the majority of the match.

In any case, we'll see what comes of this patch in just a few hours. Once I finish playing around with Mewtwo and the Mii costumes, I will be checking to see if Mewtwo has any notable obstacles Rosalina mains will need to overcome/will be eternally plagued by (and vice versa). I'll keep an eye out for changes to Rosalina too, but I expect I will hear about those online before I get around to them, if there's any.

The most obvious thing to check will be if Luma's respawn time is adjusted.

 

[mario123007]

They can buff her. They can nerf her. They can do whatever the **** they want, it ain't gonna stop me from playing as her no matter what.

Let's just hope for the best If she's buffed, then great, if nerfed, well we might just have to get over it.

I eat Rosa haters for lunch, especially with some extra salt in them.

Maybe add some more spices.
I don't eat the ones who hates her because they think she's OP, I eat the ones who has ridiculous reason of hating her. Or even more, the ones who thinks she shouldn't even deserves to be in Smash I will gobble them up. Rosalina the best Mario character to be added in Smash, but I do looking forward to more Mario characters, but to me Rosalina in Smash is totally legit.

Honestly most players think she's OP only because they forget they are fighting two different characters, not just the one. I do think she has the potential to be OP in her current form, but it would require someone to not only know her fundamentals down pat, but to master the art of paradigm shifting and using LUMA as a unit, not as a disjoint for the majority of the match.

In any case, we'll see what comes of this patch in just a few hours. Once I finish playing around with Mewtwo and the Mii costumes, I will be checking to see if Mewtwo has any notable obstacles Rosalina mains will need to overcome/will be eternally plagued by (and vice versa). I'll keep an eye out for changes to Rosalina too, but I expect I will hear about those online before I get around to them, if there's any.

The most obvious thing to check will be if Luma's respawn time is adjusted.

Just when will it released? I mean the exact time. I'm not sure if I'll update it immediately, I guess I have to leave my replays behind...

 

[Zonderion]

Let's just hope for the best If she's buffed, then great, if nerfed, well we might just have to get over it.

Maybe add some more spices.
I don't eat the ones who hates her because they think she's OP, I eat the ones who has ridiculous reason of hating her. Or even more, the ones who thinks she shouldn't even deserves to be in Smash I will gobble them up. Rosalina the best Mario character to be added in Smash, but I do looking forward to more Mario characters, but to me Rosalina in Smash is totally legit.


Just when will it released? I mean the exact time. I'm not sure if I'll update it immediately, I guess I have to leave my replays behind...

I believe maintenance is schedule for like 11pm to 2 am EST, but don't quote me on that.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Pretty much this.

She doesn't need any nerfs imo, she is just a complex character that requires players to have good knowledge of the MU in order to defeat (which is where most of the salt is generated), which is the case with basically every character that has any sort of gimmick (Olimar, Little Mac, Lucario, Pacman, Luigi, Diddy, etc...).

If any changes are necessary, tweaks to make her worst moves more usable will be a lot more healthy for the metagame and it'll help Rosalina stay competitive with all of the competition. She definitely isn't a character that is is in need of balance though, a few tweaks or nothing is good enough imo.

Maybe it's just me but I can see the knockback on Luma's dair being reduced and the knockback on uair being changed. They will most likely remove Luma's ability to act during certain situations. Idk if they're going to touch customs but if they do luma warp will get nerfed. They may also remove luma landing.

Buffs I'd like is more range on her star bits and reduction on luma respawn time.

 

[ChikoLad]

This thread is literally just becoming "they're probably gonna nerf all of Rosalina's cooler moves and features even though half of them are basic features that make the character unique and are explained in loading screen tips".

 

[mario123007]

I believe maintenance is schedule for like 11pm to 2 am EST, but don't quote me on that.

Perhaps they will release the patch as soon as the maintenance is over.

This thread is literally just becoming "they're probably gonna nerf all of Rosalina's cooler moves and features even though half of them are basic features that make the character unique and are explained in loading screen tips".

I don't think it will happen, don't be so pessimistic.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

This thread is literally just becoming "they're probably gonna nerf all of Rosalina's cooler moves and features even though half of them are basic features that make the character unique and are explained in loading screen tips".

Going to have argue against this reasoning you have. Sakurai has stated in the past that he can add and remove tips without us noticing.

Lastly, what makes her most unique is that she has Luma. If a couple things must be trimmed according to Sakurai I don't see why he wouldn't go ahead and do it as long as it doesn't mess with her core. I don't want him too, but I wouldn't deny that possibility. It is that, a possibility. None of us are Sakurai.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To those who are saying that Rosalina's d-air needs to be nerfed, please remember that that attack isn't exactly strong without its meteor smash property; the first hitbox can't KO Mario at the center of any Omega Form stage until his current damage hits 243%.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Lunar landing was discovered since last october and the last balance patch came on November. So it was around for a month and sakurai did nothing on that, what makes you think he will do it now

To those who are saying that Rosalina's d-air needs to be nerfed, please remember that that attack isn't exactly strong without its meteor smash property; the first hitbox can't KO Mario at the center of any Omega Form stage until his current damage hits 243%.

theyre are talking about luma dair. That move can kill characters offstage as low as 60%

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

theyre are talking about luma dair. That move can kill characters offstage as low as 60%

The hitbox isn't exactly large though, as you need to time the hit just right.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

The hitbox isn't exactly large though, as you need to time the hit just right.

Its pretty large if you combine it with rosa down air, which does cover a large amount of range. Its basicly saying die by rosa meteor smash or luma dair. I killed many players with the dair all the time as low as even 45%. Its a scary move and it could be nerf because of how devastating it is.

 

[Eisen]

The hitbox isn't exactly large though, as you need to time the hit just right.

It's a kill move. That can hit from across the stage. And doesn't require Rosalina to commit at all. She doesn't have to be there. That's kind of dumb. It's not like Samus' charge shot where at least it can be reflected/absorbed/countered or something. At best, you might get a counter on the Luma, but it's not usually very effective because the Rosa can just stay right in the range to punish you herself for the counter after you hit Luma.

Not saying she shouldn't have those tools because she's already designed that way, but complaining about the hitbox size really shouldn't be a thing when your character even without Luma has super strong disjointed and fast hitboxes that take over every other freaking move in the game.

Edit: Hope I'm not sounding too antagonistic here, I honestly just came to the thread from the "recent posts" list and didn't think the thread would have any rules. Oh well, I'll just stay out of it until the patch actually comes.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Its pretty large if you combine it with rosa down air, which does cover a large amount of range. Its basicly saying die by rosa meteor smash or luma dair. I killed many players with the dair all the time as low as even 45%. Its a scary move and it could be nerf because of how devastating it is.

Placement is everything though, since if Mario is at the center of any Omega Form stage, the Luma's d-air can't KO him until his current damage hits 169%.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Placement is everything though, since if Mario is at the center of any Omega Form stage, the Luma's d-air can't KO him until his current damage hits 169%.

i don't use it as a reliable kill move, I use it as a spacing, edge guarding tool, and ill say it does a fantastic job at doing that. Many people refer to rosa as the gimping queen for that reason follow by her bair and nair, maybe f-air to

Also, I hope the dair of rosas frame data gets buff because it comes out at frame 18 for a move that only does 8 damage or less. Its slower than her forward smash for crying out loud. Make the hitbox come out at frame 12 or something

 

[Parcheesy]

Also, I hope the dair of rosas frame data gets buff because it comes out at frame 18 for a move that only does 8 damage or less. Its slower than her forward smash for crying out loud. Make the hitbox come out at frame 12 or something

I know it might sound silly, but I really hope she doesn't get any changes like this. They can tweak damage values all they like, because it doesn't directly change how she plays, or how she prioritizes moves. Changing frame data on her moves would change everything, suddenly bread and butter moves can become dangerous ( or vice-versa ), and all the time we've spent learning the character will amount to nothing but bad habits as it relates to the new version.

...Of course it would be lovely if they changed nothing at all.

Regardless of how Rosalina comes out of this patch, I'm going to enjoy the weeks of free Mewtwo practice For Glory will surely bring. Learning to edgeguard Mewtwo looks like it'll be a very fun experience.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

I know it might sound silly, but I really hope she doesn't get any changes like this. They can tweak damage values all they like, because it doesn't directly change how she plays, or how she prioritizes moves. Changing frame data on her moves would change everything, suddenly bread and butter moves can become dangerous ( or vice-versa ), and all the time we've spent learning the character will amount to nothing but bad habits as it relates to the new version.

...Of course it would be lovely if they changed nothing at all.

Regardless of how Rosalina comes out of this patch, I'm going to enjoy the weeks of free Mewtwo practice For Glory will surely bring. Learning to edgeguard Mewtwo looks like it'll be a very fun experience.

You don't want a move to come out faster? thats going to benefit her only.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You don't want a move to come out faster? thats going to benefit her only.

You must also remember that the d-smash's frame duration got increased after Smash 3DS's 1.0.4 update was released. Frame data can always be altered.