So they’ll make that already stupid mechanic work even better than before but they can’t allow splatbombs to kill at reasonable high percents (like Gaming Watch’s bombs), make strong forward air actually strong, or have roller auto-cancel? What is their design philosophy?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Roller actually doesn’t work.
- Thread starter BlackInk
- Start date
Rick-Woomy!
Smash Cadet
Interdasting
They have good design philosophy but it’s obviously not perfect and there’s a LOOOT of characters to balance, leaving characters like snake, icies, hero, joker to be stupid ass fighters
I don’t understand why they make her so stupid but they can’t give their newcomers functional or well-designed moves unless they have the “dlc” label. Seriously, if you look at Inkling’s roller and compare it to Gaming Watch’s down-smash or ZSS’s bury, you’ll think “why doesn’t it autocancel so it’ll be as good as their buries?” I legitimately don’t think they have tested their newcomers enough or refined their designs before the final game. Otherwise, Splatbomb would not be a chaotic, inconsistent mess, neutral-air would have decent hit-boxes that actually did match with the animation, and roller could be a much more consistent punish move that didn’t depend on the opponent’s mashing skills (IN HIGH PERCENTS). Ken wouldn’t have needed to get so many buffs. And Isabelle’s kit could work and connect well.
“They have good design philosophy but it’s obviously not perfect and there’s a LOOOT of characters to balance, leaving characters like snake, icies, hero, joker to be stupid *** fighters”
It’s ironic that Inkling was overhyped as this broken character when they were much more honest, fair, and not janky in comparison to top-tiers. The main problem is that their moves are so awfully designed that splat-bomb, roller lands, and neutral air doesn’t work consistently for some reason.
Last edited:
Rick-Woomy!
Smash Cadet
Well, you gotta pay for them, chicken Nintendies wants their moneysss... yeah Inkling was absolutely overhyped, and I do say you make a point. Although they did much better job of pre release balancing than one hero’s justice
Last edited:
I know but ****ing Inkling is basically Nintendo’s representative for one of their, biggest, most successful, and new ip. They don’t get the right to screw up this character’s functionality while having their nobody characters get better treatment. If the team has seen the dumb splatbomb, roller, and neutral-air stuff, they’ll have to fix it. I mean they suddenly make Ken and Ryu actually functional one patch without warning.
Rick-Woomy!
Smash Cadet
Splatoon being one of their biggest and most successful? Seriously?! It has two games and started in 2015! There are MUCH bigger Nintendo franchises than this Loli shoot em up!
Inkling and Splat Bombs work better than you think they do, and this is a TOUGH ass game to develop and balance, they don’t lack the “right” to screw up a very new Nintendo ip for smash.
Last edited:
“ According to Nintendo's official list of top sellers, as of March 31, 2018, Splatoon moved 4.93 million copieson Wii U, while Splatoon 2 has sold 6.02 million pieces on Switch. This brings the franchise total to 10.95 million copies worldwide”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ninten...its-10-million-games-sold-within-3-years/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro....hit-2-million-sales-japan-decade-7221176/amp/
Nope! In fact, this crap is completely inexcusable when you consider how Inkling is currently Splatoon’s only rep in smash and her kit is polarizing because contains trainwreck design choices that are completely inexcusable when we consider this character’s relevance. How in the heck do they make it so splatbombs are the only projectile/explosive in the game that doesn’t work right, screw up a their hard-to-land bury punish so badly that it only works against great mashers at 140% when only throw buries are like this, forget to put hit-boxes in their neutral air, and manage to make their two-hit up-air unable to connect well consistently when it’s only two damn hit boxes?
Rick-Woomy!
Smash Cadet
Okay fair enough on the popularity but while inkling is NOWHERE near being top tier, Inkling has a good kit that can be utilized well and very annoyingly.
I think Inking with a fixed kit will be a definite top tier but not an unfair top tier. With a fixed kit, Inkling has consistent kill potential with the fixed roller and consistent edgegaurding with the fixed splatbomb. They still will have weak out of options with their fixed neutral air but it’ll be a good neutral tool for Inkling.
TennisBall
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2019
- Messages
- 273
I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree, as bad as Inkling's killing problem, and with a fixed kit like BlackInk desires they're an easy top tier. Inkling is good in so many areas that the few weak spots aside from the problems mentioned on the thread they're great. Amazing combos and great DPS, great edgeguarding and a Top 15 Recovery, Inkling has so many useful tools that "NOWHERE near being top tier" just doesn't add up. If I haven't convinced, I suggest you look on the competitve meta of Inkling to try to get an idea. This is my take, but anything below top of high tier just isn't right for the Woomy.
So let’s keep Olimar as a glitch mess and do nothing with their sheild. Screw making things functional, let’s make sure that multi hits don’t work properly because that’s just fun BS when it happens to moves with only two damn hit-boxes (which isn’t even a joke). Here’s the thing with easy top tiers. They’re the characters with tons of range, practically no weaknesses, absolutely ridiculous kill-power, and up-b’s that are way less punishable than Joker’s and Inkling’s up-b, which is Lucina’s bull**** up-b. Inkling is pretty simple but you must keep in mind almost every character in the game is simple.
I still want to keep kill power as a problem so move like Roller can be the consistent kill confirm it’s meant to be, there’ll be more reasons to go for off stage kills with splatbomb (as it doesn’t bring the opponent back to the damn stage especially when it’s charged), and have their neutral tools be slightly better so opponents can’t fall out of the moves. What I’m trying to do is getting inkling players to go for the tight kills and avoid stupid BS that is the result of unintentionally awful design. It’s not like I’m trying to give Inkling another sword by fixing their missing neutral-air hit boxes.
If you want really dumb ****. Look at Gaming Watch. That character is filled with dumb crap. You can’t even punish his normal get-up animation because it’s literally frame 1. His down-smash bury also confirms into his side-smash at 70%.
Last edited:
Rick-Woomy!
Smash Cadet
yeah i still personally say just high tier but thats just my opinion
But that’s just a theory- A G
Last edited:
It’s hilarious that he said Ness had a exploitable recovery when Ness’s options were way less punishable than Fox’s and Wolf’s recoveries. You know, the actual easy to pick up top tiers. If we look at Ness, they seem to be a potential top tier who’s off stage weaknesses are merely exaggerated when their downsmash is a pretty cheap two frame tool that arguably the best ledge trap in the game, they have wolf’s kill power but with better aerials, a really stupid backthrow, they have tons of kill options, and basically their own version of Snake’s side-b (their up-b). So why can’t Inkling have tools that work consistently if they don’t have much kill power and are supposed to clutch stocks with some of their currently dysfunctional tools, splatbomb and roller?
Last edited:
Rick-Woomy!
Smash Cadet
Imo ness fox and wolf are are technical characters that require some skill and practice to pick up and play well
Yeah ness def can use some nerfs imo and is pretty strong, I’ll agree w that.
Last edited:
So is Inkling but their punishes don’t work right and that’s my real problem. What I’m pointing out is the outright ridiculousness of the guy’s argument about “easy top tiers”. As if being an easy top tier automatically means that there are no weaknesses in the top tier. Even Joker, Snake, and Pikachu have significant weaknesses.
Rick-Woomy!
Smash Cadet
TennisBall
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2019
- Messages
- 273
" downsmash is a pretty cheap two frame tool that arguably the best ledge trap in the game"
Yeah, no. Yo-Yo works because it completely destroys your ablity to recover low, thank god for you, the yo-yo is not actually active every frame of charging, and sometimes you can slip by, or, you could, um, recover high. Inkling can just put the splat bomb there and Ness can't do anything other than uncharge and try again, whihc is when you recover high. Not to mention that things like Ivysaur Down Air, where you don't have to commit and all and are perfectly equipped to try something else when you need. Yo-Yo is good, but not the best in the game. Just because Fox and Wolf's recoveries are worse off than Ness doesn't mean that makes Ness' better by default, Fox and Wolf have worse recoveries, but in turn are overall more equipped for more situtions. Ness' aerials are good, but they don't kill most of the time, and if you press the shield button, the problem for Ness becomes worse. Back Throw is powerful, it's one of Ness' kill moves. Magnet is Ness' kill move, it's his go-to kill confirm, if he can't land it, back throw is way harder to get because his grab range is garbage. Inkling should have tools to kill more consistently, but that doesn't mean that Ness is a potential top tier because his kit works correctly. He's an extremely exploitable character offstage and all you need to do with Inkling is read the airdodge, your Back Air should easily take care of PK Thunder offstage. Fox and Wolf are top tiers because despite the bad recoveries they have everything and even then, their recoveries can get the job done, Ness is not nearly as solid as someone who struggles against him would think and getting in against swordies or someone like Inkling who has a giant disjoint back air is pretty difficult, and Ness' disadvantage allows you to ledgetrap for the entire stock.You wanna not get killed by Ness, be patient, make him commit, Ness has to commit in order to get a kill or else he's just going to have to Nair out of shield, which you can bait out and get a punish, and Ness offstage is a seriously bad thing for Ness.
"Here’s the thing with easy top tiers. They’re the characters with tons of range, practically no weaknesses, absolutely ridiculous kill-power, and up-b’s that are way less punishable than Joker’s and Inkling’s up-b, which is Lucina’s bull**** up-b. Inkling is pretty simple but you must keep in mind almost every character in the game is simple."
Top tiers have weaknesses, the thing about top tiers is that their strengths overshadow their weaknesses to the point where they are above everyone else in that sort of sense.
So Ness needs to be nerfed for having a tool kit that can kill but having gaping weaknesses,but Inkling needs to be buffed to have a tool kit to kill and be near perfect in every other way? Inkling is a much more solid character than Ness, 70% of the competitive community thinks Ness is a mid tier. I want Inkling to kill and I want Inkling to be a top tier, they're so much fun and they take skill in order to get the job done, but that doesn't mean that Ness need to burn in a PK Fire because I mentioned him in a paragraph.
Sorry for the late arguement, I was taking a quick hitaus from Smashboards while watching Big House 9.
Last edited:
Really, are you going to complain that you have time your ledge-trapping and consider when you do ledgetrapping, just like any other character in the game? It’s like playing Shulk and complaining that he can’t up-b 100% for a free edgeguard. Your tool is actually pretty great for ledge trapping.
Inkling’s kit is just badly designed in terms of punishes. Fixing roller and splatbomb is actually a good thing to do so this character doesn’t have BS happen because of high percent mashing and bringing in rage opponents into the goddamn stage. Does Ness have any of that kind of BS happen? No. So why don’t we fix that legitimately dumb game design? If we don’t. We have to give the character some kill power in exchange of making those two moves being badly designed as they are now. You can’t give a character the premise of having a great kit with weak kill power when you screw up the design of its moves.
Last edited:
The ``low´´´kill power is by itself contrarrested by a godlike damage rackup hability with the ink mechanic, all the other things is just Inkling being a top 10 char with his obvious weaknesses, you should look at Space playing in Ultimate Fighting Arena, because this character does not have even lack of results now, with Cosmos not being at his best right now, Armada and Space have done very well this weekend with Inkling, you should be using all this time for practicing and learning, instead of this``buff my top 10 char´´ damn crap.
TennisBall
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2019
- Messages
- 273
I wasn't denying that Yo-Yo wasn't great, and no I wasn't complaining at all the entire time, I was stating that Yo-Yo has flaws and can be countered, not that it should be buffed to have super armor can come out frame 1.
I have not denied that Inkling's kit needs to be fixed, it could really use some more kill power, I get it.
Again, not once the entire time I talked about Ness' Yo-Yo that it was flawed. If anything, I praised it for being efficient in the times where it's useful, not complaining about it. Could you please read my post further next time?
Look even Armada thinks the issues with Inkling’s specials is ******** and he is the one that inspired my opinion in the first place. Do you think I will care if roller confirms at a reasonable high percent? No. Do you think I ask that splatbombs get buffs if they don’t act so damn stupid? No. But because they are an issue, they do need to get addressed. It’s not like Olimar and Sheik don’t get results but I’ll still ***** about their dumb issues like terrible shields or ridiculously low damage.
Let me tell you this. The crap with roller and splatbomb is goddamn embarrassing. When roller is the move that is made to be ridiculously hard to land, low-range, and for early kills. It only truly confirms at 140% when the person is actually great at mashing, but crap like Gaming Watch’s bury is a forward-smash confirm at 70%. That’s so fair and “balanced”. It’s not garbage design at all. Oh, and my splatbomb hit you in the face? What happened? Did it blow up and send you away, bring your ass back to the goddamn stage, or NOT EVEN BLOW UP? None of the bombs in this game behave like this garbage!
Really, you’re going to talk about Inkling’s damage when the game literally rewards you for losing with the rage mechanic? It’s because of the dumb rage mechanic that I know Inkling needs their specials to be better. The rage mechanic also screws over Inking’s only good kill option because it massively affects their up-throw kill confirms. Why doesn’t Inkling need their specials to function well when they are Inkling’s kill options to prevent fully raged opponents from taking action?
Sorry, I am just a little too angry because that move is absolutely not comparable to splatbomb in terms of issues and I feel you don’t appreciate the move’s functionality. The problem I have with Splatbomb are its inconsistencies in terms of punish or even landings. Splatbomb is like one of those moves that somehow gets passed the testing stage as a glitchy mess.
Last edited:
Armada didn´t say nothing about issues that need to be addresed, also, how is Roller low range when is a disjoint which was reduced precisely for its safety? (not speaking about the bury nerf), but now effectively speaking of burying you are the only one saying it should be a confirm at lower percents, they already did that it was easier to mash at less than 110 percent, and more difficult at more percent, so i think that is not the view the dev team has for the move.
The splatbomb complain is just plain stupid, it explodes past certain time and you can throw it later for it explosing sooner respective to the throw, it also explodes automatically when hits an enemy, i think also explodes when in a surface when it goes fast enough but idk that one very well, also kills at not very high percents and i´d call it even early when used on edgeguards.
You didn´t explain yet why Inkling should be a priority to buff when there are legit bad characters in the game, and plenty of multihits and hitboxes that dont work properly.
Here’s the thing, they didn’t allow Inkling players to confirm at 110% because of the awful design. They focused way too much on bury time instead of allowing Inkling players to get the maximum amount of punish time by auto-canceling the roller upon landing. Doing this change can allow Inking players to get their smash confirms at 110%.
The splatbomb issues on the other hand are absolutely ridiculous. You have to witness them to believe it, because, they just do whatever they want.
I don’t know if buffing bad characters is a good idea. We have have over 30 viable characters with results and Leffen does have good points against it. I’m saying Inkling needs buffs so their moves work consistently and I believe their issues are actually easier to fix than many other characters in game due to them only about two muiti-hits and that they only truly missing hit boxes in their neutral air. The only difficult move to fix in Inkling’s kit is splatbomb.
Last edited:
For having a dozen of viable characters we already have 4, Brawl and Melee, more viable characters is good meanwhile they dont buff bad designed characters like Mac or Ganon too much.
The roller thing is that it would be super busted if it wasnt escapable at 110 by mashing, mainly because it means it would be hardly escapable at 80-90, and that would be beyond stupid.
About the splatbomb, i really think you dont understand how it works, is not that simple, you have to see it as a normal grenade in a shooter game, i think it has like only two different like not charged and fully charged so it may be tricky sometimes cause you dont time it like you wanted to, but that is more a thing of not knowing the move and another bad thing of the high imput lag of this game.
And to finish to explain, the nair, you cant think of it like a normal sex kick nair, is a frame 6 move with only 5 frames of landing lag and low ending lag and hitbox duration that is used to combo, it is obviously not gonna have a great hitbox like fair and bair, which are more laggy (back air not much more, but that move is unironically broken).
The roller thing is that it would be super busted if it wasnt escapable at 110 by mashing, mainly because it means it would be hardly escapable at 80-90, and that would be beyond stupid.
About the splatbomb, i really think you dont understand how it works, is not that simple, you have to see it as a normal grenade in a shooter game, i think it has like only two different like not charged and fully charged so it may be tricky sometimes cause you dont time it like you wanted to, but that is more a thing of not knowing the move and another bad thing of the high imput lag of this game.
And to finish to explain, the nair, you cant think of it like a normal sex kick nair, is a frame 6 move with only 5 frames of landing lag and low ending lag and hitbox duration that is used to combo, it is obviously not gonna have a great hitbox like fair and bair, which are more laggy (back air not much more, but that move is unironically broken).
Last edited:
So what? Buries are arguably dumb in this game and getting rollered at 90% and higher is your fault because you haven’t practiced your mashing skills and you get yourself out played by Inkling’s worst possible move.
If splatbomb is supposed to work like how they do in shooter games, then it’s still ******** because it doesn’t kill like a grenande. My problem with splatbomb isn’t even about charges or timing. I thrown a charged splatbomb in my opponent’s face and it brought their ass to the stage or it BOUNCED off from the opponent! Input lag has nothing to do with Inkling’s splatbomb problems and it’s obvious as hell you have never actually played Inkling or payed attention to their fights.
The neutral air is pretty garbage in range and is ridiculously inconsistent because it sometimes hits the ground. It only has 7.2 damage, so its slightly bigger hit boxes isn’t even a big deal aside from punishing you for your awful spacing.
Last edited:
Dying at 90, 100, or 110 by a recovery mixup is stupid, and roller is by no means a mad move nor Inklings worst move (it would be dash attack or maybe f tilt).
Splatbomb is more like a contact grenade but chargeable like a normal grenade, and like i said, i think it only has two states (charged and uncharged) without any intermediate so may be tricky, but not a bugged or disfunctional move as you suggest.
Neutral air is a great lagless combo tool in the air,like a up tilt in the air, of course is going to have low range and low damage.
Splatbomb is more like a contact grenade but chargeable like a normal grenade, and like i said, i think it only has two states (charged and uncharged) without any intermediate so may be tricky, but not a bugged or disfunctional move as you suggest.
Neutral air is a great lagless combo tool in the air,like a up tilt in the air, of course is going to have low range and low damage.
Last edited:
Wolf, Gaming Watch, and Ness have that kind of kill power but better, with moves such as wolf’s forward smash, Ness’s back-air, and Gaming Watch’s down-smash. Roller is nothing in comparison to them because nearly every move can beat it and it’s easy to counterplay. In this game, it’s not even abnormal to die at 110% or earlier. The exception to the rule is of course is goddamn Wario.
Hell no. It is the worst designed bomb in the game. If you honestly want to argue that it’s supposed to work like a grenade, you might as boost its kill power when it lands because that’s basically your argument.
Inkling’s neutral air is easily out-ranged by many types of moves and it will still be that way even if the range is slightly buffed to grounded opponents much more consistently. I don’t want its damage buffed at all or give it any absurd hit boxes. I see it as is a potential neutral tool that’s badly designed, because there are barely any combos when the nuetral-air is used. I don’t even expect its usage to increase with this buff.
Last edited:
Rick-Woomy!
Smash Cadet
Quintuple posting
Took me a while to quite my laziness and actually read this whole thing, for the most part I agree w your arguments here. Ness is high tier, but def has some glaring weaknesses that some people overlook
Fair enough, you also make good point here
*Her
I mean I don’t really get too much bullcrap with splatbombs but sometimes they can not work properly, and I believe people when they say that splatbombs can be broken.
Roller should auto cancel, splatbombs maybe work fictionally but I don’t know your experience with them, maybe we could buff bottom tiers but I guess too many viable fighters could be a hot mess
Also I just wanted to vent that I agree, up tilt is missing a front hit box and it’s SO annoying for when I want low percent strings on opponents like damn
TennisBall
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2019
- Messages
- 273
yeah ness' back air is actually super good, has like no lag, and can be confirmed into on everyone except big boy characters
What the hell are you doing? Ness’s back-air is pretty good. It’s not the safest move but you have to go for a kill sooner or later.
TennisBall
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2019
- Messages
- 273
I um, really don't have a response this time.
I agreed with you on a point, and you still find a way to turn it against me.
I'm confused.
Rick-Woomy!
Smash Cadet
Bro splatbombs works, so does roller, and clearly this guy does know Inkling. I see you’re not trying to be a ****, just trying to make a statement for competitive inkling and see the opinions of others, which is completely fine.
Last edited:
If splatbomb worked properly, it wouldn’t bring the would-be dead opponents back to the stage.
“I um, really don't have a response this time.
I agreed with you on a point, and you still find a way to turn it against me.
I'm confused.”
Some guy complained about how broken roller would be if it confirmed at 110% and I made a massive counterpoint towards it by stating that these kinds of clutch moves were featured in the game and killed at around that percent. Ness’s backair was a decent example because it did have that kind of kill power, but it didn’t make it broken
Last edited:
TennisBall
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2019
- Messages
- 273
yeah, it was a good point, and i further supported that point.
On a different subject, who's the best Inkling player in your opinion? Cosmos seems obvious but Armada is doing as of late.
Cosmos is the best but if roller gets the buffs it deserves, Space easily will be superior than him. Armada will be a pretty great inkling but he’ll only be the best if Splatbombs actually are consistent (as in, they don’t bring the opponent back into the stage with the goddamn rage). It’s because of of the last two that I do want Inkling’s specials to get buffs for reasonable early kill confirms and consistency.
Last edited:
TennisBall
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2019
- Messages
- 273
If I'm gonna be completely honest Cosmos has been prettyy inconsistent lately, it's no MVD when it comes to low results but I feel he hasn't been performing as well as he should.
EDIT:I didn't look at Thunder Smash 3, and Cosmos performed extremely well that tournament, maybe he's getting back in his groove.
Last edited:
The problem for Cosmos is mainly Inkling’s polarizing kill potential. For some characters, Inkling can kill at decently high percents with the up-throw confirm but others, such as Wario, can live up to 190%. I wonder if it’s a result of the smash team being way too overestimative on Inkling’s ink, Roller, and forward-air or their completely inconsistent philosophy on combo/damage characters such as Joker, Sheik, Peach Pikachu, or PT. It’s pretty absurd game design if you ask me. I just hope for Inkling to get some refinements or an echofighter with slightly worse tools but with decent kill power, so rage doesn’t become so mentally draining to play this new and unique character.
Last edited: