Roller actually doesn’t work.

BlackInk

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#1
You know how roller is supposed to be a guarranteed kill confirm at low-high percents but is extremely telegraphed as a result? Well, that’s only a fantasy, it’s only good when you are facing against a amateurish masher. In fact, it can be mashed out when the opponent is at 130% even when you reach them as fast as possible! What is this garbage? They approve crap like Arsene and Wario’s warp but they can’t allow this move to work when it’s extremely hard to land in comparison to that jank? What is Nintendo’s design philosophy?
 

byelMeTi

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#2
Are you really complaining because Inkling hasn´t enough bullsh*t? The character is already top 5 easy, and roller is mad good, Arsene and Wario Waft are not very good design choices nor good things to compare.
You have a kill confirm post 100 percent that is hardly punishable for any character with not very fast OoS options, it is also useful as recovery mix-up, and you say it does not work because it is escapable (hardest bury in the game to escape btw).
You should try Yoshi, Kirby, Ike, Shulk and many more characters to see what is a bad side-b, but i instead would say to drop Inkling seeing you are not happy with the character viability seeing all your posts, another option is drop the johns, but the choice is yours.
 
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#3
Got an always updating philosophy for stuff like this. 1st let me say Roller's still good if utilized correctly. It's clearly not what it used to be. Even if it was, after witnessing the carnage that is Arsene there'd be Inklings calling foul and for more side B buffs because of poor reasons like 'I hAvE t0 cOmMiT'. Same thing goes for other top placing chars (Palu, Wolf, etc) *and honestly any character whose players rely on minimal options that happen to work out (Piranha Plant's neutral B).
 
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byelMeTi

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#6
While my opinion differs, my point was that there is many worse side b's as those which i listed, and many others, and also say that roller works perfectly fine.
 

TennisBall

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#7
People really need to stop assuming a move is bad because it can't just be used out of nowhere. If people are mashing out of roller at 130% you need to pat them on the back because that's godlike mashing. Roller is one of the best tech covers in the game, is an excellent reading option, is a great recovery option in addition to Inkling's already superb recovery. While Arsene is pretty good, Wario has to wait like 2 minutes to use Waft, while Inkling can use roller whenever they please. I suggest learning Inkling further before jumping to conclusions.
 

Broom

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#8
Imma let you finish, but Backslash is a good side-B.
Quick Draw isn't bad either. Ike would be god awful without it. He doesn't have Chrom's airspeed so he would be forced to up-b to the ledge nearly everytime without quick draw. It's pretty much essential to his moveset. Even moreso than Inkling and her roller.
 
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BlackInk

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#9
People really need to stop assuming a move is bad because it can't just be used out of nowhere. If people are mashing out of roller at 130% you need to pat them on the back because that's godlike mashing. Roller is one of the best tech covers in the game, is an excellent reading option, is a great recovery option in addition to Inkling's already superb recovery. While Arsene is pretty good, Wario has to wait like 2 minutes to use Waft, while Inkling can use roller whenever they please. I suggest learning Inkling further before jumping to conclusions.
Mashing out from roller at 130% isn’t even an accomplishment. Try to do that with safer buries from ZZS and Gaming Watch and you’re dead.

Roller can pick up people teching but it’s a terrible tech chasing tool when it can mashed out before any damn punishes. Not to mention, rolling towards a roller or not teching at all can avoid the roller. It’s like you have never considered to use Inkling’s down-smash instead for tech situation because it covers up way more options and has better punishes.

Roller is practically a very useless option in the game because of Inkling’s up-b. It’s useful sometimes but it barely is ever used to recover when Inkling can do other things to prevent getting edgegaurded that prevent opponents from attempting to strike Inkling (Splatbomb).

Waft is a mechanic that works and can be comboed into. It also forces the opponents to play aggressively or else Wario will kill them at ridiculously low percents. Roller is barely effective because it can’t kill a decent masher at 130%. It’s hilarious that you think Waft isn’t that good because it needs some time to charge when it is the most feared tool in Wario’s kit and can drain on the opponent mentally for free.

In reality, Roller is a kill/punish gimmick that doesn’t even work unless the opponent doesn’t know how to mash.

Are you really complaining because Inkling hasn´t enough bullsh*t? The character is already top 5 easy, and roller is mad good, Arsene and Wario Waft are not very good design choices nor good things to compare.
You have a kill confirm post 100 percent that is hardly punishable for any character with not very fast OoS options, it is also useful as recovery mix-up, and you say it does not work because it is escapable (hardest bury in the game to escape btw).
You should try Yoshi, Kirby, Ike, Shulk and many more characters to see what is a bad side-b, but i instead would say to drop Inkling seeing you are not happy with the character viability seeing all your posts, another option is drop the johns, but the choice is yours.
It’s like you forget that the purpose of the roller (allow Inkling to kill) and what I have mentioned about roller. Armada confirms that a roller on 130% isn’t a confirmed kill-confirm against experienced mashers. The smash team may have wanted to work as a kill move but it’s way too janky and they clearly haven’t tested this move enough. Plus, I played those characters before I mained Inkling and their side-specials moves were nothing alike. You can compare recoveries because they are meant as recoveries but you can’t compare special moves by button inputs because that’s stupid and ridiculously ignorant of the character design. Do I have to mention that Inkling’s neutral b is clearly god-awful in comparison to Shulk’s neutral b? Oh wait, maybe it’s because the purpose of the moves are extremely different (although Inkling’s neutral b is also an awful gimmick move that barely works). I’m complaining about Roller as it’s a move that’s clearly badly designed for the purpose it’s supposed to have, which is being a kill-confirm.

Also, Inkling is top 5? Have you even seen any results from Inkling? The character is barely ever in a top 8 or even a top 12.

Roller is great, in my opinion. One of my favorite specials in Smash. Though I use it more often on air than on ground.
I wouldn’t complain about roller if the smash team actually decided to give the character some kill power and some move functionality in exchange for Roller nerfs and some ink-boosted damage (because I don’t even like mashing as a mechanic). The fact that Roller had to be the intended kill method was just a terrible decision on their part because they couldn’t even get it to work properly. Inkling had other weird stuff in their kit (missing neutral-air and up-tilt hit boxes) but this one was the one thing my mind couldn’t understand the most.
 
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TennisBall

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#11
Mashing out from roller at 130% isn’t even an accomplishment. Try to do that with safer buries from ZZS and Gaming Watch and you’re dead.

Roller can pick up people teching but it’s a terrible tech chasing tool when it can mashed out before any damn punishes. Not to mention, rolling towards a roller or not teching at all can avoid the roller. It’s like you have never considered to use Inkling’s down-smash instead for tech situation because it covers up way more options and has better punishes.

Roller is practically a very useless option in the game because of Inkling’s up-b. It’s useful sometimes but it barely is ever used to recover when Inkling can do other things to prevent getting edgegaurded that prevent opponents from attempting to strike Inkling (Splatbomb).

Waft is a mechanic that works and can be comboed into. It also forces the opponents to play aggressively or else Wario will kill them at ridiculously low percents. Roller is barely effective because it can’t kill a decent masher at 130%. It’s hilarious that you think Waft isn’t that good because it needs some time to charge when it is the most feared tool in Wario’s kit and can drain on the opponent mentally for free.

In reality, Roller is a kill/punish gimmick that doesn’t even work unless the opponent doesn’t know how to mash.


It’s like you forget that the purpose of the roller (allow Inkling to kill) and what I have mentioned about roller. Armada confirms that a roller on 130% isn’t a confirmed kill-confirm against experienced mashers. The smash team may have wanted to work as a kill move but it’s way too janky and they clearly haven’t tested this move enough. Plus, I played those characters before I mained Inkling and their side-specials moves were nothing alike. You can compare recoveries because they are meant as recoveries but you can’t compare special moves by button inputs because that’s stupid and ridiculously ignorant of the character design. Do I have to mention that Inkling’s neutral b is clearly god-awful in comparison to Shulk’s neutral b? Oh wait, maybe it’s because the purpose of the moves are extremely different (although Inkling’s neutral b is also an awful gimmick move that barely works). I’m complaining about Roller as it’s a move that’s clearly badly designed for the purpose it’s supposed to have, which is being a kill-confirm.

Also, Inkling is top 5? Have you even seen any results from Inkling? The character is barely ever in a top 8 or even a top 12.


I wouldn’t complain about roller if the smash team actually decided to give the character some kill power and some move functionality in exchange for Roller nerfs and some ink-boosted damage (because I don’t even like mashing as a mechanic). The fact that Roller had to be the intended kill method was just a terrible decision on their part because they couldn’t even get it to work properly. Inkling had other weird stuff in their kit (missing neutral-air and up-tilt hit boxes) but this one was the one thing my mind couldn’t understand the most.
Roller. Can. Be. Cancelled. All you have to do, is press the A button, and you're free to do anything while they're stuck in the ground. Yes, 130% is nothing at top level play, but with ZSS bury, all they can do is Flip Kick, additionally, Roller can be jumped out of of providing further options if they can mash like using an aerial. You can cancel right next to your buried opponent too with minimum lag and just run up and do a Smash Attack, yes, Armada's saying Roller isn't a kill confirm at 130% does hold mardit, but it inks the opponent, which makes them easier to kill, so do an aerial, or a tilt.
I've already made my claim on why mashing Roller is way more difficult than something like King K. Rool's down throw so Roller covering tech options still applies to my claim. Yes, roller cannot cover a tech behind them, but the Inkling can read that, and if they don't tech the Inkling can jump out of it, putting them in a bad position, especially since the Roller just inked them. Down Smash is good but it's much more situational and takes way more of a commitment than Roller.

Did I ever say that Waft wasn't good? I didn't. I said Wario had to wait for it, and why that was a con that the Roller didn't have. I didn't say that Waft wasn't good. Waft has super armor, is a terrifying kill move, and can be confirmed into. I just said it wasn't perfect, while Roller can be used at any time, I didn't say it was better. You say you shouldn't compare moves like Inkling's Neutral-B to Shulk's Neutral-B, but you're comparing a single move to Arsene, which is a completely different can of worms.

Roller in the air is more of a mix-up or stall tactic against something like Magic Burst, why you would commit to the lag of charging a Splatbomb or placing it on stage, using ink and just encouraging the opponent to slight move or go off-stage and lose ink is beyond me but whatever works.

Inkling can kill without Roller. I must admit, it's much more difficult, but Inkling has throw confirms at eariler percents, has a terrifying edgeguarding game, and Ink just helps them further. The claim are making suggests that Roller is awful for every purpose, not just a kill confirm.

Results don't mean everything, I don't see a whole lot of Bowsers in Top 16 other than LeoN but nobody's saying Bowser's mid tier.

Overall, I feel that Roller is an excellent move and saying it's awful it's giving enough credit because it has flaws. I feel as though you're severly underestimating Inkling's power to kill, and saying Roller is your only option feels undeserved.
If this doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.
Thank you for reading this.
 
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BlackInk

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#12
Roller. Can. Be. Cancelled. All you have to do, is press the A button, and you're free to do anything while they're stuck in the ground. Yes, 130% is nothing at top level play, but with ZSS bury, all they can do is Flip Kick, additionally, Roller can be jumped out of of providing further options if they can mash like using an aerial. You can cancel right next to your buried opponent too with minimum lag and just run up and do a Smash Attack, yes, Armada's saying Roller isn't a kill confirm at 130% does hold mardit, but it inks the opponent, which makes them easier to kill, so do an aerial, or a tilt.
I've already made my claim on why mashing Roller is way more difficult than something like King K. Rool's down throw so Roller covering tech options still applies to my claim. Yes, roller cannot cover a tech behind them, but the Inkling can read that, and if they don't tech the Inkling can jump out of it, putting them in a bad position, especially since the Roller just inked them. Down Smash is good but it's much more situational and takes way more of a commitment than Roller.

Did I ever say that Waft wasn't good? I didn't. I said Wario had to wait for it, and why that was a con that the Roller didn't have. I didn't say that Waft wasn't good. Waft has super armor, is a terrifying kill move, and can be confirmed into. I just said it wasn't perfect, while Roller can be used at any time, I didn't say it was better. You say you shouldn't compare moves like Inkling's Neutral-B to Shulk's Neutral-B, but you're comparing a single move to Arsene, which is a completely different can of worms.

Roller in the air is more of a mix-up or stall tactic against something like Magic Burst, why you would commit to the lag of charging a Splatbomb or placing it on stage, using ink and just encouraging the opponent to slight move or go off-stage and lose ink is beyond me but whatever works.

Inkling can kill without Roller. I must admit, it's much more difficult, but Inkling has throw confirms at eariler percents, has a terrifying edgeguarding game, and Ink just helps them further. The claim are making suggests that Roller is awful for every purpose, not just a kill confirm.

Results don't mean everything, I don't see a whole lot of Bowsers in Top 16 other than LeoN but nobody's saying Bowser's mid tier.

Overall, I feel that Roller is an excellent move and saying it's awful it's giving enough credit because it has flaws. I feel as though you're severly underestimating Inkling's power to kill, and saying Roller is your only option feels undeserved.
If this doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.
Thank you for reading this.
Roller could be canceled. That doesn’t mean it isn’t ****. Plus, opponents are not light as **** and Inkling’s non-smash moves can barely kill at high percents. If the point of roller is to combo into a their weak tilts, it’s total bull**** when Gaming watch and Zero Suit Samus gets more rewards with their bull**** bury moves. Oh but THEE INK! I can literally use any other ink moves without worrying about any punishes.

Screw the ‘it’s tough to mash’! It doesn’t mean crap to Zero Suit Samus or Gaming Watch when their punishes are actually fast enough to work. That’s why Inkling’s roller is garbage in comparison to them. If you hate the mashing garbage (just like I do), have the move stun the opponent depending on their percent, so the move can be more consistent.

Really, magic burst??? But you can shut down that move with splatbomb and barely anyone in the cast has a move this stupid or unfair. But even in Hero’s case, he’ll need a good amount of mp to actually make it work. Splatbomb can help Inkling to avoid moves such as Wario’s down-air or any off-stage aggressions. Plus, you can time Inkling’s up-b to avoid any two-frames. Also, what splatbomb lag? Whatever you’re doing in recovering, it sounds like you barely ultilize a lot things in Inkling’s kit. Besides, Zero Suit Samus down-b is pretty much the roller on steroids (because it’s very offensive, can bury effectively, avoid getting hit, and has invincible frames). I don’t want Inkling’s roller to be as stupid as that move but I want it to work properly so Inkling’s kit can work properly.

You say Inkling can kill but I have to say that because the characters as a whole has ridiculous recoveries, the grab kill confirms are pretty tight or completely nonexistent for a big portion of characters (and is completely unintentional). The roller is definitely supposed to work because they are aware of how stupid the recoveries are in this game.

Results don't mean everything, I don't see a whole lot of Bowsers in Top 16 other than LeoN but nobody's saying Bowser's mid tier.”

This argument is so laughably bad. It’s because of Leon’s results that Bowser is labeled as a viable fighter and the best heavy.

Overall, I feel that Roller is an excellent move and saying it's awful it's giving enough credit because it has flaws. I feel as though you're severly underestimating Inkling's power to kill”

I feel that you’re overestimating Inkling’s kill power. If Inkling up-air, back-air, forward air, or splatbomb has more knockback, maybe roller can be a great move. But as if now, it doesn’t flow well with Inkling’s kit and that’s a big problem with a character who’s big weakness is kill. Heck, even the ink is made almost useless because Inkling’s opponents can survive up to 200% when they lose the neutral too many times.
 
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#13
Yeah, honestly, it can be a bit frustrating getting my opponents ~200%, and not being able to kill them easy without using roller, and even then, it's not super duper easy to hit a smash attack with the small window for me to do something without them mashing out. I think the roller could be amazing if Inkling had a fast enough punish.
 

TennisBall

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#14
Roller could be canceled. That doesn’t mean it isn’t ****. Plus, opponents are not light as **** and Inkling’s non-smash moves can barely kill at high percents. If the point of roller is to combo into a their weak tilts, it’s total bull**** when Gaming watch and Zero Suit Samus gets more rewards with their bull**** bury moves. Oh but THEE INK! I can literally use any other ink moves without worrying about any punishes.

Screw the ‘it’s tough to mash’! It doesn’t mean crap to Zero Suit Samus or Gaming Watch when their punishes are actually fast enough to work. That’s why Inkling’s roller is garbage in comparison to them. If you hate the mashing garbage (just like I do), have the move stun the opponent depending on their percent, so the move can be more consistent.

Really, magic burst??? But you can shut down that move with splatbomb and barely anyone in the cast has a move this stupid or unfair. But even in Hero’s case, he’ll need a good amount of mp to actually make it work. Splatbomb can help Inkling to avoid moves such as Wario’s down-air or any off-stage aggressions. Plus, you can time Inkling’s up-b to avoid any two-frames. Also, what splatbomb lag? Whatever you’re doing in recovering, it sounds like you barely ultilize a lot things in Inkling’s kit. Besides, Zero Suit Samus down-b is pretty much the roller on steroids (because it’s very offensive, can bury effectively, avoid getting hit, and has invincible frames). I don’t want Inkling’s roller to be as stupid as that move but I want it to work properly so Inkling’s kit can work properly.

You say Inkling can kill but I have to say that because the characters as a whole has ridiculous recoveries, the grab kill confirms are pretty tight or completely nonexistent for a big portion of characters (and is completely unintentional). The roller is definitely supposed to work because they are aware of how stupid the recoveries are in this game.

Results don't mean everything, I don't see a whole lot of Bowsers in Top 16 other than LeoN but nobody's saying Bowser's mid tier.”

This argument is so laughably bad. It’s because of Leon’s results that Bowser is labeled as a viable fighter and the best heavy.

Overall, I feel that Roller is an excellent move and saying it's awful it's giving enough credit because it has flaws. I feel as though you're severly underestimating Inkling's power to kill”

I feel that you’re overestimating Inkling’s kill power. If Inkling up-air, back-air, forward air, or splatbomb has more knockback, maybe roller can be a great move. But as if now, it doesn’t flow well with Inkling’s kit and that’s a big problem with a character who’s big weakness is kill. Heck, even the ink is made almost useless because Inkling’s opponents can survive up to 200% when they lose the neutral too many times.
The whole point of the LeoN thing was that he was doing well but it doesn't matter. I made a claim that didn't work, oh well.
 

Reila

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#15
Yeah, honestly, it can be a bit frustrating getting my opponents ~200%, and not being able to kill them easy without using roller, and even then, it's not super duper easy to hit a smash attack with the small window for me to do something without them mashing out. I think the roller could be amazing if Inkling had a fast enough punish.
Pretty sure you can kill almost anything with a bair at 200%
 

BlackInk

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#16
Pretty sure you can kill almost anything with a bair at 200%
But backair is not a strong move. The main problem with Inkling’s kit is that is has way too many weak moves in their stuff. I honestly don’t understand why Inkling’s normals are so ridiculously weak when they only have a couple of long range moves. I get the ink mechanic but getting follow ups from it are actually pretty hard in comparison to waft and Arsene (which is hilarious since the Inkling player has to play good to get ink on the opponent). Plus, the ink doesn’t increase knockback so you are still unable to kill as Inkling despite your opponent being at a ridiculously high percent and 100% covered in ink.

Honestly, this character really needs some refinements.
 
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#17
You know how roller is supposed to be a guarranteed kill confirm at low-high percents but is extremely telegraphed as a result? Well, that’s only a fantasy, it’s only good when you are facing against a amateurish masher. In fact, it can be mashed out when the opponent is at 130% even when you reach them as fast as possible! What is this garbage? They approve crap like Arsene and Wario’s warp but they can’t allow this move to work when it’s extremely hard to land in comparison to that jank? What is Nintendo’s design philosophy?
I don't think that Splat roller is all that bad, and it does become hard to mash out competently at high percentages, but I do believe that Splat Roller can be a viable kill option if you can read your opponent and bury them with your Splat Roller, and follow up with a smash attack or other kill option. I personally don't find myself using Splat Roller all too often for killing or stage control with spreading ink or intimidating. Not that I'm a reliable Inkling main to begin with, but I'm giving my opinion based on my experience of maining Inkling.

Yeah, honestly, it can be a bit frustrating getting my opponents ~200%, and not being able to kill them easy without using roller, and even then, it's not super duper easy to hit a smash attack with the small window for me to do something without them mashing out. I think the roller could be amazing if Inkling had a fast enough punish.
You make a fair argument, and if you don't mind me saying, if you jump cancel your roller and immediately directional airdodge back to stage next to your buried opponent, you can set up for a kill option earlier and faster. It can take a little bit of practicing to get down consistently at first, but it can be great "tech" for us Inkling mains.

Are you really complaining because Inkling hasn´t enough bullsh*t? The character is already top 5 easy, and roller is mad good, Arsene and Wario Waft are not very good design choices nor good things to compare.
You have a kill confirm post 100 percent that is hardly punishable for any character with not very fast OoS options, it is also useful as recovery mix-up, and you say it does not work because it is escapable (hardest bury in the game to escape btw).
You should try Yoshi, Kirby, Ike, Shulk and many more characters to see what is a bad side-b, but i instead would say to drop Inkling seeing you are not happy with the character viability seeing all your posts, another option is drop the johns, but the choice is yours.
Yeah I agree. I'd personally say that Inkling is lower than top 5, rather a B tier, but that's my opinion.

Got an always updating philosophy for stuff like this. 1st let me say Roller's still good if utilized correctly. It's clearly not what it used to be. Even if it was, after witnessing the carnage that is Arsene there'd be Inklings calling foul and for more side B buffs because of poor reasons like 'I hAvE t0 cOmMiT'. Same thing goes for other top placing chars (Palu, Wolf, etc) *and honestly any character whose players rely on minimal options that happen to work out (Piranha Plant's neutral B).
Yeah I agree. Roller needs no buffs, people just need to learn to read opponents and commit to an option.

Roller is great, in my opinion. One of my favorite specials in Smash. Though I use it more often on air than on ground.
I agree, roller can sometimes be better as an aerial recovery and mix-up than an option onstage for stage control or kill options. Of course there are variables to consider, like match-ups, stages, and counter-picks.

Imma let you finish, but Backslash is a good side-B.
I personally believe that Shulk's side special "Backslash" is an okay special move. Although to be fair, when Shulk is using a monado- especially the SMASH monado-, Backslash can absolutely get buffed.

People really need to stop assuming a move is bad because it can't just be used out of nowhere. If people are mashing out of roller at 130% you need to pat them on the back because that's godlike mashing. Roller is one of the best tech covers in the game, is an excellent reading option, is a great recovery option in addition to Inkling's already superb recovery. While Arsene is pretty good, Wario has to wait like 2 minutes to use Waft, while Inkling can use roller whenever they please. I suggest learning Inkling further before jumping to conclusions.
I absolutely agree.

Mashing out from roller at 130% isn’t even an accomplishment. Try to do that with safer buries from ZZS and Gaming Watch and you’re dead.

Roller can pick up people teching but it’s a terrible tech chasing tool when it can mashed out before any damn punishes. Not to mention, rolling towards a roller or not teching at all can avoid the roller. It’s like you have never considered to use Inkling’s down-smash instead for tech situation because it covers up way more options and has better punishes.

Roller is practically a very useless option in the game because of Inkling’s up-b. It’s useful sometimes but it barely is ever used to recover when Inkling can do other things to prevent getting edgegaurded that prevent opponents from attempting to strike Inkling (Splatbomb).

Waft is a mechanic that works and can be comboed into. It also forces the opponents to play aggressively or else Wario will kill them at ridiculously low percents. Roller is barely effective because it can’t kill a decent masher at 130%. It’s hilarious that you think Waft isn’t that good because it needs some time to charge when it is the most feared tool in Wario’s kit and can drain on the opponent mentally for free.

In reality, Roller is a kill/punish gimmick that doesn’t even work unless the opponent doesn’t know how to mash.


It’s like you forget that the purpose of the roller (allow Inkling to kill) and what I have mentioned about roller. Armada confirms that a roller on 130% isn’t a confirmed kill-confirm against experienced mashers. The smash team may have wanted to work as a kill move but it’s way too janky and they clearly haven’t tested this move enough. Plus, I played those characters before I mained Inkling and their side-specials moves were nothing alike. You can compare recoveries because they are meant as recoveries but you can’t compare special moves by button inputs because that’s stupid and ridiculously ignorant of the character design. Do I have to mention that Inkling’s neutral b is clearly god-awful in comparison to Shulk’s neutral b? Oh wait, maybe it’s because the purpose of the moves are extremely different (although Inkling’s neutral b is also an awful gimmick move that barely works). I’m complaining about Roller as it’s a move that’s clearly badly designed for the purpose it’s supposed to have, which is being a kill-confirm.

Also, Inkling is top 5? Have you even seen any results from Inkling? The character is barely ever in a top 8 or even a top 12.


I wouldn’t complain about roller if the smash team actually decided to give the character some kill power and some move functionality in exchange for Roller nerfs and some ink-boosted damage (because I don’t even like mashing as a mechanic). The fact that Roller had to be the intended kill method was just a terrible decision on their part because they couldn’t even get it to work properly. Inkling had other weird stuff in their kit (missing neutral-air and up-tilt hit boxes) but this one was the one thing my mind couldn’t understand the most.
I agree with a lot of things you said, like waft being ridiculous, down smash being an underrated option (I love Inkling down smash), people being able to avoid roller by using different options and reads, Inkling needing a better neutral aerial and up tilt (to be fair, even though neutral aerial is really small and doesn't last for many frames, it it a great combo extender if you can somehow actually hit with it), Inkling needing more competence to secure kills, mashing being a very annoying and dumb mechanic, and maybe some other things. And roller isn't one of the best special moves in the game, but it's really hard to mash out of at high percentages (like 130%) if you can set up for a kill option fast enough, and roller is also good for stage control with it's ink spreading, even if it can be jumped over and easily avoided. Also, if you can read your opponent well, put them in unfavorable situations, and keep up pressure, Splat Roller can be menacing. Yeah, Inkling is overrated to an extent and Splat Roller wasn't the best designed move. And while Inkling's neutral special move isn't the best neutral special move of all time, I say that the move can be good for spreading and keeping ink on your opponents, and can be an annoying tool to keep them in check. But yeah, rapid jab is typically the much better option for Inkling. Also neutral special move can slightly ledgetrap by hitting opponents trying to recover or grab ledge close to the stage, but at that point Splat Bomb is the much better option for both ledge trapping and edge-guarding.



Man, you are getting too much hate for this thread man, people don't realize that you're actually making some good points, about Splat Roller and other things (mashing can get "vaulted"). I disagree with some things you say too, but you're not as bad as people in this thread think you are.

Roller. Can. Be. Cancelled. All you have to do, is press the A button, and you're free to do anything while they're stuck in the ground. Yes, 130% is nothing at top level play, but with ZSS bury, all they can do is Flip Kick, additionally, Roller can be jumped out of of providing further options if they can mash like using an aerial. You can cancel right next to your buried opponent too with minimum lag and just run up and do a Smash Attack, yes, Armada's saying Roller isn't a kill confirm at 130% does hold mardit, but it inks the opponent, which makes them easier to kill, so do an aerial, or a tilt.
I've already made my claim on why mashing Roller is way more difficult than something like King K. Rool's down throw so Roller covering tech options still applies to my claim. Yes, roller cannot cover a tech behind them, but the Inkling can read that, and if they don't tech the Inkling can jump out of it, putting them in a bad position, especially since the Roller just inked them. Down Smash is good but it's much more situational and takes way more of a commitment than Roller.

Did I ever say that Waft wasn't good? I didn't. I said Wario had to wait for it, and why that was a con that the Roller didn't have. I didn't say that Waft wasn't good. Waft has super armor, is a terrifying kill move, and can be confirmed into. I just said it wasn't perfect, while Roller can be used at any time, I didn't say it was better. You say you shouldn't compare moves like Inkling's Neutral-B to Shulk's Neutral-B, but you're comparing a single move to Arsene, which is a completely different can of worms.

Roller in the air is more of a mix-up or stall tactic against something like Magic Burst, why you would commit to the lag of charging a Splatbomb or placing it on stage, using ink and just encouraging the opponent to slight move or go off-stage and lose ink is beyond me but whatever works.

Inkling can kill without Roller. I must admit, it's much more difficult, but Inkling has throw confirms at eariler percents, has a terrifying edgeguarding game, and Ink just helps them further. The claim are making suggests that Roller is awful for every purpose, not just a kill confirm.

Results don't mean everything, I don't see a whole lot of Bowsers in Top 16 other than LeoN but nobody's saying Bowser's mid tier.

Overall, I feel that Roller is an excellent move and saying it's awful it's giving enough credit because it has flaws. I feel as though you're severly underestimating Inkling's power to kill, and saying Roller is your only option feels undeserved.
If this doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.
Thank you for reading this.
Yeah you make good points, also I completely forgot about up throw up air kill combo in all of this. Also I disagree that roller is excellent, it definitely has it's disadvantages, I would personally say that Splat Roller is a good move- not great or excellent, but not okay, bad, or terrible. Okay maybe great, but not excellent.

Roller could be canceled. That doesn’t mean it isn’t ****. Plus, opponents are not light as **** and Inkling’s non-smash moves can barely kill at high percents. If the point of roller is to combo into a their weak tilts, it’s total bull**** when Gaming watch and Zero Suit Samus gets more rewards with their bull**** bury moves. Oh but THEE INK! I can literally use any other ink moves without worrying about any punishes.

Screw the ‘it’s tough to mash’! It doesn’t mean crap to Zero Suit Samus or Gaming Watch when their punishes are actually fast enough to work. That’s why Inkling’s roller is garbage in comparison to them. If you hate the mashing garbage (just like I do), have the move stun the opponent depending on their percent, so the move can be more consistent.

Really, magic burst??? But you can shut down that move with splatbomb and barely anyone in the cast has a move this stupid or unfair. But even in Hero’s case, he’ll need a good amount of mp to actually make it work. Splatbomb can help Inkling to avoid moves such as Wario’s down-air or any off-stage aggressions. Plus, you can time Inkling’s up-b to avoid any two-frames. Also, what splatbomb lag? Whatever you’re doing in recovering, it sounds like you barely ultilize a lot things in Inkling’s kit. Besides, Zero Suit Samus down-b is pretty much the roller on steroids (because it’s very offensive, can bury effectively, avoid getting hit, and has invincible frames). I don’t want Inkling’s roller to be as stupid as that move but I want it to work properly so Inkling’s kit can work properly.

You say Inkling can kill but I have to say that because the characters as a whole has ridiculous recoveries, the grab kill confirms are pretty tight or completely nonexistent for a big portion of characters (and is completely unintentional). The roller is definitely supposed to work because they are aware of how stupid the recoveries are in this game.

Results don't mean everything, I don't see a whole lot of Bowsers in Top 16 other than LeoN but nobody's saying Bowser's mid tier.”

This argument is so laughably bad. It’s because of Leon’s results that Bowser is labeled as a viable fighter and the best heavy.

Overall, I feel that Roller is an excellent move and saying it's awful it's giving enough credit because it has flaws. I feel as though you're severly underestimating Inkling's power to kill”

I feel that you’re overestimating Inkling’s kill power. If Inkling up-air, back-air, forward air, or splatbomb has more knockback, maybe roller can be a great move. But as if now, it doesn’t flow well with Inkling’s kit and that’s a big problem with a character who’s big weakness is kill. Heck, even the ink is made almost useless because Inkling’s opponents can survive up to 200% when they lose the neutral too many times.
Great points Black Ink, Inkling isn't the best killer of all time definitely, I have no clue where the hell "Splat Bomb lag" came from, magic burst, while broken, does need a good amount of mp to even be able to kill, SNAKE IS OBJECTIVELY THE BEST HEAVY IN THE GAME and you made a fair point about LeoN and Bowser, although I guess results do have their advantages and disadvantages for this type of argument. Like, if Bowser was a high tier, then why doesn't he get good results consistently? On the other hand, however, results have flaws and maybe Bowser is that good, he just isn't getting the results he should be getting for whatever reason. And jeeze man, Splat Roller isn't that bad. And Inkling's aerials can kill, but yeah, while they could be a little bit better for killing in the air, they can kill in the air. Zero Suit Samus and Game and Watch have viable bury to kill combos becuase they have fast kill options, I absolutely agree, but Splat Roller can be like that too if you use Splat Roller well, even if you're against an experienced masher, in which case Splat Roller is a bit worse for killing. Also Splat Roller is absolutely the best bury in the game when it comes to actual bury time, that cannot be argued.

But backair is not a strong move. The main problem with Inkling’s kit is that is has way too many weak moves in their stuff. I honestly don’t understand why Inkling’s normals are so ridiculously weak when they only have a couple of long range moves. I get the ink mechanic but getting follow ups from it are actually pretty hard in comparison to waft and Arsene (which is hilarious since the Inkling player has to play good to get ink on the opponent). Plus, the ink doesn’t increase knockback so you are still unable to kill as Inkling despite your opponent being at a ridiculously high percent and 100% covered in ink.

Honestly, this character really needs some refinements.
"you actually have to play well to keep ink on opponents, but arsene is free and busted" i love this statement it's so absolutely true
 

Reila

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#18
But backair is not a strong move. The main problem with Inkling’s kit is that is has way too many weak moves in their stuff. I honestly don’t understand why Inkling’s normals are so ridiculously weak when they only have a couple of long range moves. I get the ink mechanic but getting follow ups from it are actually pretty hard in comparison to waft and Arsene (which is hilarious since the Inkling player has to play good to get ink on the opponent). Plus, the ink doesn’t increase knockback so you are still unable to kill as Inkling despite your opponent being at a ridiculously high percent and 100% covered in ink.

Honestly, this character really needs some refinements.
But if they fix some of the weak moves they need to nerf Inkling in other places. It is not like they are low tier. I would love an actually useful nair but they already have plenty of good tools in their kit.
 

TennisBall

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#19
Yeah you make good points, also I completely forgot about up throw up air kill combo in all of this. Also I disagree that roller is excellent, it definitely has it's disadvantages, I would personally say that Splat Roller is a good move- not great or excellent, but not okay, bad, or terrible. Okay maybe great, but not excellent.
Fair.
 

BlackInk

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#20
But if they fix some of the weak moves they need to nerf Inkling in other places. It is not like they are low tier. I would love an actually useful nair but they already have plenty of good tools in their kit.
They already did nerf Inkling in other places. Why do you think it’s easier to two-frame Inkling now and buries are easier to mash out after a couple of patches? I think a reasonable buff is a knockback buff towards their splatbomb so they can use it for high percent kills and the opponent can’t tech it after 130%. It’ll give Inkling’s about two options to kill an opponent. This way, Inkling can kill simply by landing the splatbomb in neutral or getting the opponent off stage for a chance to land the splatbomb. With this, Inkling will have a completely consistent kill condition that still depends on their ink tank. I’ll still buff the neutral air hit boxes despite this, because it honestly looks like a mistake.

Zero Suit Samus and Game and Watch have viable bury to kill combos becuase they have fast kill options, I absolutely agree, but Splat Roller can be like that too if you use Splat Roller well, even if you're against an experienced masher, in which case Splat Roller is a bit worse for killing. Also Splat Roller is absolutely the best bury in the game when it comes to actual bury time, that cannot be argued”

Bury time doesn’t really mean anything. The best buries are actually the ones that consistently allow great punishes. Roller is only on the sorta category because of its massive inconsistencies. It’s a common misconception to determine the worth of the bury by bury time when it’s mainly a follow-up move. If they somehow change it so there will be less wasted time after a roller bury, that’ll be great.
 
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#21
Yeah bury time doesn't completely make or break a burying move, but it is an integral part. But yeah I agree, even though Splat Roller has a great bury time, it isn't the easiest to follow up on.
 

BlackInk

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#22
Yeah bury time doesn't completely make or break a burying move, but it is an integral part. But yeah I agree, even though Splat Roller has a great bury time, it isn't the easiest to follow up on.
You would think they’ll make the move auto-cancel on hit. If they did that, it would be way easier to follow it up with a smash attack on 100-130% like they clearly intended.

I’m actually pretty damn surprised that Inkling even manages to be a viable character when their problems seem pretty unintentional and flat-out poorly designed. I only hope that they, Olimar, and Sheik get their respective fixes because they have issues/designs that I really disagree with despite their proceed status or public paranoia. Because their fixed kits can’t possibly be as stupid as Wario or Joker.
 

byelMeTi

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#23
``I’m actually pretty damn surprised that Inkling even manages to be a viable character when their problems seem pretty unintentional and flat-out poorly designed´´

I really hope you are trolling, even mid tiers are viable in this game, so i cannot imagine an upper high-tier at worst not being viable.
 
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BlackInk

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#24
``I’m actually pretty damn surprised that Inkling even manages to be a viable character when their problems seem pretty unintentional and flat-out poorly designed´´

I really hope you are trolling, even mid tiers are viable in this game, so i cannot imagine an upper high-tier at worst not being viable.
I know, I am only talking about top-level play. That’s when characters don’t have barely functional or poorly-designed moves. Inkling is just a really weird exception to the rule.
 
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byelMeTi

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#25
I accept the fact that roller is a bad designed move, but not a bad design that perjudicates Inkling exactly, as all other poor designed things Inkling has, like her combination of high speed, small hurtbox and still mid weight, the character has ALMOST everything you could ask for, and her theorical weaknesses, ink requeriments and low kill power, are by itself contrarrested by a low time and low lag for recharging ink and great damage output that becomes insane when opponent is inked respectively. For not speaking of the up B and dash hurtbox, yes, Inkling has many poorly designed things, and all of them benefit her.
 

BlackInk

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#26
I accept the fact that roller is a bad designed move, but not a bad design that perjudicates Inkling exactly, as all other poor designed things Inkling has, like her combination of high speed, small hurtbox and still mid weight, the character has ALMOST everything you could ask for, and her theorical weaknesses, ink requeriments and low kill power, are by itself contrarrested by a low time and low lag for recharging ink and great damage output that becomes insane when opponent is inked respectively. For not speaking of the up B and dash hurtbox, yes, Inkling has many poorly designed things, and all of them benefit her.
Yet Peach, Joker, and Wario pratically have all of this, but with a better gimmick and kill power. I’m only talking about poorly-designed moves that obviously don’t work properly and roller is one of those moves. I’m obviously not going to fix their kill issue, only their kill conditions.
 

byelMeTi

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#27
If your excuse is that Peach, Joker and Wario are better, then think about the other +70 characters that are below them and Inkling (I still think Inkling is better than Wario btw, not than Joker and Peach tho), and another time, roller works perfectly, maybe you are relying too hard on the move and that is your problem, if roller is that bad, then you only have to use Inklings top 10 neutral game, or maybe just switch to Peach/Joker if you want a EVEN BETTER character.
 

BlackInk

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#28
If your excuse is that Peach, Joker and Wario are better, then think about the other +70 characters that are below them and Inkling (I still think Inkling is better than Wario btw, not than Joker and Peach tho), and another time, roller works perfectly, maybe you are relying too hard on the move and that is your problem, if roller is that bad, then you only have to use Inklings top 10 neutral game, or maybe just switch to Peach/Joker if you want a EVEN BETTER character.
About 30 characters are high tiers and top tiers. There’s a good portion of bad match ups for Inkling in that portion and it’s the same for Joker. Peach and Pikachu are exceptions that actually made a lot of fights completely unfair.

“Roller works perfectly” I literally just explained the best way to rework the move so the dumb buffer system wouldn’t be a problem and Inkling could get the best possible amount of time to punish just like the other bury moves. And the move is perfect?! It’s a hard to land move that needs to be treated as a hard to land move. Do I have to mention that almost every move in the game beats it?

Guy, I’m not changing my main because of one poor decision that can easily be fixed if they take a look at Inkling again and realize that they just need the move to auto-cancel. Let’s not forget about patches either as that is necessary to prepare for. Anything can literally happen as they turn Ken and Ryu into high tiers in one patch, then buff them again with a distinct parry mechanic in the next patch.
 
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byelMeTi

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#29
``I literally just explained the best way to rework the move´´

You are confusing rework and buff, rework is to change the properties and/or the proposite of something, buffing is simply an enhance, what you said was the second thing, or that is how i understand it.
 

BlackInk

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#30
``I literally just explained the best way to rework the move´´

You are confusing rework and buff, rework is to change the properties and/or the proposite of something, buffing is simply an enhance, what you said was the second thing, or that is how i understand it.
What the hell is this crap? They are practically synonyms!
 
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#31
You would think they’ll make the move auto-cancel on hit. If they did that, it would be way easier to follow it up with a smash attack on 100-130% like they clearly intended.

I’m actually pretty damn surprised that Inkling even manages to be a viable character when their problems seem pretty unintentional and flat-out poorly designed. I only hope that they, Olimar, and Sheik get their respective fixes because they have issues/designs that I really disagree with despite their proceed status or public paranoia. Because their fixed kits can’t possibly be as stupid as Wario or Joker.
Okay an auto-cancel splat roller actually isn't a bad idea! Olimar's shield being literally broken is poor design, but I do find it funny because people are complaining about his shield and not about how obnoxious he actually is. Wario is pretty crazy, but Joker seriously needs an Arsene nerf like Jesus. I'm not at all surprised that Inkling remains viable with all of her many great advantages. I think you're making some good points, but you're underestimating Inkling.
 
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BlackInk

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#33
Inkling has strong kill options and pressure at high percents without roller. This thread leads me to believe you're just a WiFi inkling that is carried by roller to get any kills.
If I successfully land rollers to get kills, then that means I must’ve outplayed the opponent pretty hard with a hard-to-land move... Thus it means I’m carried by the move!?

Also what other consistent kill options? Inkling’s back-throw isn’t strong and their up-throw confirms is 100% dependent from the match up and stage.

“I'm not at all surprised that Inkling remains viable with all of her many great advantages. I think you're making some good points, but you're underestimating Inkling”

The reason why I’m surprised is because I don’t even think Inkling actually has been tested enough before her release. It actually does feel like they are missing a good chunk of code at times. Especially when you consider the weird inconsistency of splatbombs, their two-hit multi-hits can somehow not connect, the poor design decisions in their roller, how weak their strong hit of forward-air surprisingly is, and the outright missing hit boxes of their neutral air and up-tilt. I think if they look into Inkling, they can tweak a lot of these things to make this character consistent with their punishes because that’s the only true problem I have with the character.
 
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TennisBall

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#34
Okay, so Inkling has difficulty killing, we've established firmly that Roller can be a struggle to work with and Up-Throw/Up-Air is a tight kill-confirm, and Ink can only get you so far.
So here's my question, how are you surprised that Inkling remains viable?
From what I can see, killing is her ONLY problem, I cannot plausibly understand what else is a problem with them in the grand scheme of things that isn't a bad match-up like Bowser or weird hitboxes that you don't have to use. Even if something is a little off, it's not a huge demand to think that the problem cannot be fixed by just finding a solution and getting better other than the killing dilemma.
A good example of this is :ultness:, he finds kills fairly easy enough, has a very nice neutral and advantage game, and has range, but his disadvantage and recovery are something to be desired, it's a balance check if you will.
Now, Ness is way worse than Inkling, and his recovery problem is a lot worse that Inkling's problem with killing, but I still think that Inkling is an easy Top 10.
I will admit, Peach and Joker are busted, but they should only be nerfed where they absolutely need to be nerfed, I much prefer buffing over nerfing, also I think :ultwario: is busted too, but to a much lesser extent and should stay the way he is
 

BlackInk

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#36
I'm also going to post the Inkling Up-Throw/Up-Air kill confirms here for reference. The list is outdated and does not have Hero or Banjo, but I hope it still helps
I know The confirms but there are a lot of matches when it’s really useless (including your main). Do I have to bring up the rage crap that messes up the kill-confirm because the damn thing also affects throws.

Okay, so Inkling has difficulty killing, we've established firmly that Roller can be a struggle to work with and Up-Throw/Up-Air is a tight kill-confirm, and Ink can only get you so far.
So here's my question, how are you surprised that Inkling remains viable?
From what I can see, killing is her ONLY problem”
Actually no, they’ll be screwed over in trades, rage crap, jank, and comeback mechanics. Their off-stage game is notably not super strong because the recoveries in this game are way too absurd and their splatbomb is a goddamn inconsistent mess of a move that really needs buffs. Do I have to mention that they have pretty weak OOS options because they can’t design their neutral air correctly?


When it comes to Inkling, their consistent kill options are roller, splatbomb, and strong fair. The problem with each of these moves are design issues (in roller’s and Splatbomb’s case) or their knockback (in strong fair’s and splatbomb’s case). Fixing these parts will not Inkling in any way broken because they are not that easy to land. It just makes their punishes more functional.

Also, Ness is a character that works 100% perfectly as intended. He has a throw that’s way better than Inkling’s upthrow kill confirms, all of their moves match with their animations, their hard to land kill options actually work properly (and are pretty flexible tools), and their up-b is a move that doesn’t have to used for recovering due to Ness’s recovery options but it is also very flexible in the ways in can be used (even early kills).

You enjoy Ness because he is a really dynamic character that even makes Pikachu suffer in the match-up chart and his kit works properly as intended. My problem with Inkling is that their kit needs notable fixes despite the “they’re obviously top-tier” opinion because good characters doesn’t automatically mean fully-functional. Just look at Olimar and honestly tell me that they don’t need buffs to undo their buggy **** show and dysfunctional shield. Sure Olimar and Inkling will be top-tiers with these fixes but that doesn’t mean they’ll easily win against high-tiers because high-tiers are still ridiculous characters who debatably are secret top-tiers, like Megaman.
 
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TennisBall

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#37
I know The confirms but there are a lot of matches when it’s really useless (including your main). Do I have to bring up the rage crap that messes up the kill-confirm because the damn thing also affects throws.

Okay, so Inkling has difficulty killing, we've established firmly that Roller can be a struggle to work with and Up-Throw/Up-Air is a tight kill-confirm, and Ink can only get you so far.
So here's my question, how are you surprised that Inkling remains viable?
From what I can see, killing is her ONLY problem”
Actually no, they’ll be screwed over in trades, rage crap, jank, and comeback mechanics. Their off-stage game is notably not super strong because the recoveries in this game are way too absurd and their splatbomb is a goddamn inconsistent mess of a move that really needs buffs. Do I have to mention that they have pretty weak OOS options because they can’t design their neutral air correctly?


When it comes to Inkling, their consistent kill options are roller, splatbomb, and strong fair. The problem with each of these moves are design issues (in roller’s and Splatbomb’s case) or their knockback (in strong fair’s and splatbomb’s case). Fixing these parts will not Inkling in any way broken because they are not that easy to land. It just makes their punishes more functional.

Also, Ness is a character that works 100% perfectly as intended. He has a throw that’s way better than Inkling’s upthrow kill confirms, all of their moves match with their animations, their hard to land kill options actually work properly (and are pretty flexible tools), and their up-b is a move that doesn’t have to used for recovering due to Ness’s recovery options but it is also very flexible in the ways in can be used (even early kills).

You enjoy Ness because he is a really dynamic character that even makes Pikachu suffer in the match-up chart and his kit works properly as intended. My problem with Inkling is that their kit needs notable fixes despite the “they’re obviously top-tier” opinion because good characters doesn’t automatically mean fully-functional. Just look at Olimar and honestly tell me that they don’t need buffs to undo their buggy **** show and dysfunctional shield. Sure Olimar and Inkling will be top-tiers with these fixes but that doesn’t mean they’ll easily win against high-tiers because high-tiers are still ridiculous characters who debatably are secret top-tiers, like Megaman.
I can agree with everything in this statement except the off-stage game, I would like if you elaborated further on the matter, as I can find them to be great at edgeguarding and even if they aren't, ledgetrapping is pretty strong in this game.
 

BlackInk

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#38
I can agree with everything in this statement except the off-stage game, I would like if you elaborated further on the matter, as I can find them to be great at edgeguarding and even if they aren't, ledgetrapping is pretty strong in this game.
What I mean about the off-stage game is that the recoveries in this game are way too absurd that Inkling’s aerials and splatbomb are simply not enough to take them them out, especially when it comes to heavier characters (like the ones with massive jank). I find it really annoying because Joker somehow is easier to kill off-stage than many other characters in the game. If splatbomb had more knockback and consistency, this would be less of an issue and people couldn’t tech the thing at 170%.

I find it unfortunate because I really love the ideas in Inkling’s design but the ideas need to work, especially when rage leads to massive jank boosted, such as Charazard and Wario.
 
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Rick-Woomy!

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#39
Okay, so Inkling has difficulty killing, we've established firmly that Roller can be a struggle to work with and Up-Throw/Up-Air is a tight kill-confirm, and Ink can only get you so far.
So here's my question, how are you surprised that Inkling remains viable?
From what I can see, killing is her ONLY problem, I cannot plausibly understand what else is a problem with them in the grand scheme of things that isn't a bad match-up like Bowser or weird hitboxes that you don't have to use. Even if something is a little off, it's not a huge demand to think that the problem cannot be fixed by just finding a solution and getting better other than the killing dilemma.
A good example of this is :ultness:, he finds kills fairly easy enough, has a very nice neutral and advantage game, and has range, but his disadvantage and recovery are something to be desired, it's a balance check if you will.
Now, Ness is way worse than Inkling, and his recovery problem is a lot worse that Inkling's problem with killing, but I still think that Inkling is an easy Top 10.
I will admit, Peach and Joker are busted, but they should only be nerfed where they absolutely need to be nerfed, I much prefer buffing over nerfing, also I think :ultwario: is busted too, but to a much lesser extent and should stay the way he is
First of all, Ness is a definite high tier imo, somewhere between B+ to A- tier. And second of all, I wouldn't say the fighters themselves are busted (like Brawl Meta Knight and Icies), but they have moves and/or strategies that are busted. I don't see why people say Peach is busted, but I don't watch Peaches in tourneys so maybe there's something I'm missing.
 

TennisBall

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#40
First of all, Ness is a definite high tier imo, somewhere between B+ to A- tier. And second of all, I wouldn't say the fighters themselves are busted (like Brawl Meta Knight and Icies), but they have moves and/or strategies that are busted. I don't see why people say Peach is busted, but I don't watch Peaches in tourneys so maybe there's something I'm missing.
Peach has a float ablity, we know this right? However in Ultimate it became easier or something was changed, whatever.
Basically, Peach can cancel her aerial's lag by canceling her float, allowing her to have super priority, spacing, edgeguarding, and disgusting damage output, and that's not even the full list, but that's the gist.
 
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