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Rohins gettin ***** in Wifi

n00b

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At least he didn't 3stock you in under a minute like he did to me Q_____Q
 

Coldfront

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I was upset... I saw the vids on youtube before I saw this post, and I was like "when is Rohins gonna win?!".

It's hard to give advice to someone clearly better than me, but I shall anyway.

More smash missiles to get him into the air (assuming he jumps over them), and after that wait for the Fair, block, up B.

I'll post more once I review the matches more.

EDIT: Uncharged shots don't seem to be breaking his flow too much. May be better to hit him with a fully charged ones. Marth keeps you near the edge a lot. If you can store a full CS and manage to get behind him you can kill him at 80%.

Roughly 3 minutes in, Uair to Up B was sweet.

(8th vid) You went for a dtilt when Marth was at 98%. May want to try down angled Fsmashes instead, and save the Dtilt for the kill. If you happen to catch him with it on the top of the platform he's KO'd at 100%.

Maybe more bombs on the ground would work. It would force him to be more cautious with his approach.

That's all I got, hope it helps.
 

Crystanium

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All right, bro, here's the thing. I've watched only the first three of your videos, and whether or not Honu is a really good Marth player, I think you also have potential. You asked us to critique your videos, and the only reason is so that you can get better. Rohins, I think I have the answer for you to perform better next time you go up against Honu.

I noticed a lot that you really didn't get much hits in on Honu, and this was really the reason why you kept losing. I really can't recall if you used a fully charged Charge Shot, either, except in Rohins vs Honu 3 [wifi]. I saw that whenever you went into an aggressive mode (see Rohins vs Honu 3 [wifi] where Rohins has only one stock left, but raises up Honu's percent really high), you did better.

Get a bit more aggressive, but at the same time know when to back off. Just go back and watch your third video to see what I am talking about.
 

Rohins

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I'll post some of my observations:

Gameplay Flaws:
- I spent too much time in the air at times which lead to me getting hit
- I got repetitive with some zair / projectiles series
- MAJOR LACK OF FTILT, I didn't notice how few ftilts I used until I watched the matches. I think I can control more space and set the pace better if I use ftilts in a smart way.

Technical Errors:
- I messed up a bunch of gimps. Had the right intention but just performed them wrong.
- I don't apply shield dashing properly, had a few accidental rolls.
- Made some serious errors while recovering.

Get a bit more aggressive, but at the same time know when to back off. Just go back and watch your third video to see what I am talking about.
I've been hearing this a lot lately, can't be coincidence. I'll work on my offensive game.
 

Hylian

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Rohins. Go back and watch the first video. Now count how many opportunities you had to Up-B out of shield. You will be suprised.

:) :) :).


Almost every time marth approaches samus in the air, or uses dancing blade, samus can use Up B. It really frustrates them, and marth can't afford to play defensively vs Samus because of the zair.
 

Autx

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Messages
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I've never played a Marth of that caliber (or a samus of your caliber for that matter :), but he really loves that sh neutral air ,forward air ,sword dance and dash. For his short hop neutral approach, maybe wait/dodge screw attack it, ? or sh retreating f air . Simply jumping higher over him saving the second jump for a dair or just for repositioning can throw off his rythym as well if he likes to sh approach. I find dair effective against Marth in general , it can stop the sword dance as well. Can the sword dance be shield rolled out of? if so it could be a free full cshot or a dtilt to his back,. Also watch the distance between u two when he approaches sh or dash range (approx 1/4 stage length) stop firng that missle or zair, and forward tilt, dtilt or shield and jab etc.

This brings up a question : Samus cant match an agressive Marths hand to hand without paying for it , so keep distance would be the solution right?at the same time he covers ground so fast that after u fire a missle and try a zair hes in your face already swinging away. Any other thoughts or ideas to remedy this?
 

n00b

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Waiting to screw attack would be better than sh retreating fair because Honu (er, Marth) eats through Samus's fair with his own. Dair is a good idea because it's better to keep Marth vertically above you, but the move is fairly slow and an approach with it is telegraphed so that he can fair you out of it or trade hits.

The sword dance can be rolled out of, but Samus has a slow roll and if you notice, Honu knows to complete the dance only if he's certain the hits connect. When Rohins has his shield up, he doesn't do the third or fourth hits (the laggiest ones) to avoid a shield grab or up b.

I've played Honu and he really doesn't give time to breathe, spamming sh homing missiles are definitely too slow against him. Zair works sometimes but as weird as it sounds the safest range for you to fight him is within ftilt/utilt/grab range, it seems.

It's frustratingly hard to approach when he's really good at punishing out of shield.. sigh
 

Serris

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Wait a second...

I thought you said you quit Wi-Fi!

Just kidding! Anyway, as many have pointed out before, you really need to use the screw attack more often.
 

Autx

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@ Noob, no doubt pulling off those tactics are easier said than done, he looks like a really tough opponent.
Marth (and this player particularly) covers all angles so well with speed and range. In the first vid it looked like Rohins was getting caught in the air above him at angles where its difficult for samus to attack but easy for marth to attack. When this happened sometimes Rohins would drop bombs to alter his fall or throw his timing off, but I was thinking a neutral air may work better since its quick ,stays out a long time, can hit below and beside you , and clanks with many attacks (including marths aerials if I'm not mistaken) . I never used to use it much untill I noticed it worked like an aerial jab, great for interrupting attacks. Any thoughts on this?
 

Honu

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Wait a second...

I thought you said you quit Wi-Fi!

Just kidding! Anyway, as many have pointed out before, you really need to use the screw attack more often.
yes the screw attack is good against marth XD especially if he double fair and doesnt use the second fair to retreat, then u will always b caught in it, as to being frustrated by it like hylian says, i play a samus called juju who up b's me alot so i just have to sit and watch it everyday haha
 

0RLY

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It's pretty easy to edgeguard Marth. Just hang on the ledge, and when Marth is about to use his up-B, drop, grapple, reel in. It works almost every time. If Marth make it back over you, you can easily use a ledgehop fair or uair for a free 12-15%. To a lesser extent, dropping bombs can also edge guard Marth, but only on Final Destination, because Marth will most likely get caught under the lip of the stage. Missiles and Charge Shot are very ineffective against Marth because of his fall speed, disjointed hitbox, and fast up-B. Zair can be used right as Marth double jumps to hinder his recovery further. If it's airdodged, it gives you some time to prepare an edgeguard.

You don't ever want to be over a full hop height above the ground. Marth can easily take advantage of Samus' falling speed with his own. This is because if you airdodge one of his aerials, Marth will still be in position to hit you with a different aerial. It is extremely difficult to remedy this problem. There are two main methods I use, one of which you already use. Drop a bomb, DI away from it, then move towards it. The bomb discourages Marth from getting too close, while DIing around it baits Marth. Next, there's drop a bomb, DI away, drop another bomb, DI either direction. You can use this to get off the stage where Marth can't double aerial you as easily, or to get in between two bombs to limit approaches.

If you find yourself off the stage purposefully or recovering, there are some strategies you can try to avoid getting edgeguarded. First off, save your double jump and only use bombs outside of Marth's edgeguarding range. This range differs from player to player, depending on how aggressive they are. Don't be afraid to retreat with bombs in the air. You can often use this in conjunction with a bomb jump so you don't lose too much height. When you find the time is safe, double jump+airdodge. Samus has a very slow falling speed, so the airdodge should finish by the time you reach the apex of your jump. Then up-B/grapple. The airdodge is used to prevent any gay Marth stage spikes. Using projectiles while offstage is discouraged because you lose horizontal momentum when using them, which hinders Samus' good recovery. Remember, Samus can ALWAYS recover, it's the player that makes the mistakes.

Your spacing game is very solid, about equal to that of Honu's. Both players demonstrated turning the tide of the battle with good spacing. I'd say your spacing skills are much better than mine, so I can't really say anything.

Your ground game is rather good. I like your use of jabs and retreating. However, I don't like your use of grabs. I remember a moment in one of the vids where you used a SH zair, which lands. You try following that up with another SH zair, which gets shielded and punished. This is an example of predictability. When Marth got hit by that first zair, it was like a reminder that said, "okay, watch out for Samus' zair". Instead, you should SHFF-dash grab. The SH makes Marth think you're going to prepare another zair and the grab has relatively the same animation as zair which may get you a free grab.

Whenever possible, try to throw Marth onto a platform, because it sets up for a very easy tech chase. When platforms are inaccessible, I find fthrow to be the best throw. Dthrow puts Marth too high in the air and makes your follow up too easy to read. Fthrow puts your opponent in the air but closer to the ground. You can follow it up with a zair, fair, dash attack, running usmash, or dashing shield. There are plenty of other options, but the ones I listed seem most effective to me. A zair keeps you out of Marth's range but is easily airdodged. However, landing from an airdodge doesn't necessarily mean Marth is safe. Marth gets about 4 frames of landing lag when landing from a throw, so you have some options like predicting Marth's next move (shield, dodge, attack)... because we all know 4 frames isn't that much :(. Fair has a long lasting hitbox and puts you close enough to Marth to follow up his airdodge, however, his fair beats your fair. Dash attack causes about the same effects as fair, except you're not jumping when you use this which may influence your opponent's decision. Oh and dash attack combos into Screw Attack. Running usmash causes relatively the same effects as the dash attack, except it instantly punishes his airdodge upon landing. Dashing shield is your own technique, so I'm sure you already know more uses than me.

Marth's airgame>Samus. No, not Samus' airgame, Samus in general. ...Except when Marth is above Samus, because Marth's dair isn't a good approach option. Sorry bud.



Hope I helped...
 

Rohins

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Great feedback guys, really appreciate it. I'll work on the matchup and keep the things you all mentioned in mind.
 

Gum

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I've found recently that SH power missiles buffered into rolls is a nie tactic against Marth. You can even use it to set up utilts. SH Power missile > buffer roll towards and behind them > utilt, grab, fsmash, charge shot, wutever.
 

KingChaos

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hmmm i got somethin that may help you out Rohins samus has a gimp tactic on marth as he recovers and drops down getting ready to up b run off the stage n air him and quicly up b back to the ledge for the edge hog i do this a lot on marths.
 

Mars-

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The problem is that you are playing wifi. Even if you up and b when they are above you that short button delay will make you miss your attack. All of marths attacks however are extremely fast and don't really need to be timed giving marth an overall advantage on wifi not only in power, speed, and attacks, but also in usablility.

Wifi is nice practice but you should be focused more on improving your mindgames not your reaction speed and such. I never play serious matches online I choose characters without range and practice mindgames involving movements more then things like timing.
 
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