Robin Patch Notes - 1.1.0 - AND THEN THERE WAS BUFFS

[SpaghettiWeegee]

Got dthrow+uair to combo on Fox at 107%. Been checking on other matchups but for the most part this seems like a very minimally applicable technique.

EDIT: I have it combo-ing as low as 95% on Fox, although it's not quite a kill setup that low (on FD). Seems the range for it is like 95-108% for this matchup.

EDIT2: dthrow -> jump -> dair makes for a fun mixup if your opponent is expecting an uair follow-up and airdodges.

I would argue that more significant than true combo opportunities, this change gives Robin a lot of mindgame options at low-to-medium percents. Lots of versatility here.

 

[Raziek]

Got dthrow+uair to combo on Fox at 107%. Been checking on other matchups but for the most part this seems like a very minimally applicable technique.

Minimally? This works on a lot of our bad matchups, this change is HUGE.

 

[SpaghettiWeegee]

Minimally? This works on a lot of our bad matchups, this change is HUGE.

Minimally with regards to the cast as a whole. I was trying to sound smart while saying "it don't work on lots of characters lol".

 

[Raziek]

D-throw U-Smash also true combos on fastfallers at %s where Uair doesn't work yet.

Ex: Sheik at 84%.

 

[SuperDavio]

Man, I wish I was on deck to help test stuff.

How does Bair look? Still killtastic?

 

[XXII FOOL]

Man, I wish I was on deck to help test stuff.

How does Bair look? Still killtastic?

Yep. Still amazing

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Will usmash KILL Sheik in those circumstances? With the changes we got to LSUsmash, I'd think it's... possible?

 

[941]

I think being able to act out of Elthunder and Arcthunder faster is a better change than the D-throw changes. Having safer neutral options helps way more with Robin's terrible MUs than having another KO option.

 

[•Col•]

Got dthrow+uair to combo on Fox at 107%. Been checking on other matchups but for the most part this seems like a very minimally applicable technique.

Eh?

Dthrow->Uair true combos against a lot of characters. Depending on their weight/size and such, the %s are different, but its generally between 85%-125%. In fact, I haven't found a character yet that you can't true combo.

Characters I've gotten it to true combo so far: Cpt Falcon, Mewtwo, Fox, Lucari, Olimar, Mario, Luigi, ZSS.... Plus another 1 or 2 that I'm forgetting..

Note: I have left trigger set to jump, so I can easily buffer a full jump up air after throwing.

EDIT: Ok, I'm having difficulty landing it on the big fat characters.. Couldn't get it to true combo on DK and Bowser.. I got it to true combo on Jigglypuff and Kirby though, and a couple mid weight characters like Pit and Marth.. So yeah, it seems like you can true combo dthrow-uair on most of the cast, except possibly for the heavy weight characters.

 

[Raziek]

Will usmash KILL Sheik in those circumstances? With the changes we got to LSUsmash, I'd think it's... possible?

Possibly not with DI, but in training mode it kills her center stage on FD. And training mode doesn't have rage.

 

[fullofParallellines]

...
Jab 2: More KB
...

Does this mean fire jab finisher is consistent now?

 

[Tricky Al]

I think being able to act out of Elthunder and Arcthunder faster is a better change than the D-throw changes. Having safer neutral options helps way more with Robin's terrible MUs than having another KO option.

I'll take both can't believe we got buffs!!

 

[SuperDavio]

Does this mean fire jab finisher is consistent now?

I mean, we gave up fire for wind, I'd honestly keep it this way. Unless they found a happy medium where both work.

 

[XXII FOOL]

I mean, we gave up fire for wind, I'd honestly keep it this way. Unless they found a happy medium where both work.

Fire's more horizontal trajectory still makes it somewhat useful, mostly to get people offstage...

 

[SuperDavio]

Fire's more horizontal trajectory still makes it somewhat useful, mostly to get people offstage...

No, no, I got ya. Both do have their utilities. But I remember a dark time when wind jab was practically useless. I don't want that back.

 

[theyellowflash26]

These buffs are making me so happy rn. Also d throw leads to so much potential set up. Even without the combos, at higher percents you can bait air dodges with aerials or spells and its great.

 

[XXII FOOL]

No, no, I got ya. Both do have their utilities. But I remember a dark time when wind jab was practically useless. I don't want that back.

Agreed. Using robin back when diddy was king, wind jabs only made it more likely that you'd die by losing all your elwind uses.

 

[The_Cardinal]

Bit busy with my sister's birthday now so I'll do some testing later but have any of us tested out customs yet?

 

[Raziek]

Bit busy with my sister's birthday now so I'll do some testing later but have any of us tested out customs yet?

Only tested Speed Thunder, but it was identical.

 

[SuperDavio]

Bit busy with my sister's birthday now so I'll do some testing later but have any of us tested out customs yet?

Shame on you prioritizing family.

In other news, Raziek, do we have any changes to utilt? Like, can it hit in front yet? Please?

 

[theyellowflash26]

Did our aerials get changed in terms of end lag at all?

 

[Raziek]

Shame on you prioritizing family.

In other news, Raziek, do we have any changes to utilt? Like, can it hit in front yet? Please?

U-tilt seems unchanged.

Did our aerials get changed in terms of end lag at all?

Nope!

 

[TheHypnotoad]

What was that about a bthrow nerf? Raziek was saying he was testing between a 3DS and a Wii U, and I heard that the blastzones on the 3DS version are slightly bigger, so that might be the explanation for it killing later. Was bthrow nerfed or not?

But holy ****, I can't believe we finally got true combos out of throws! This is a MASSIVE buff. Robin might actually not be completely terrible now.

 

[SuperDavio]

Yeah, I saw fthrow and bthrow mentioned earlier. Did we just get universal throw nerfs?

What if we lived in a world where dthrow had this nerfed range, and uthrow became a kill throw? My word.

 

[Raziek]

Raw data seems to be disproving any perceived changes to B-throw or F-throw.

So for now, I am going to trust that and say they are likely unchanged.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Raw data seems to be disproving any perceived changes to B-throw or F-throw.

So for now, I am going to trust that and say they are likely unchanged.

Oh thank god. So we still have our trusty bthrow to kill, and we can combo out of dthrow.

We Ness now, baby.

 

[XXII FOOL]

Yeah, I saw fthrow and bthrow mentioned earlier. Did we just get universal throw nerfs?

What if we lived in a world where dthrow had this nerfed range, and uthrow became a kill throw? My word.

Unless it was some charizard - style randomly absurd upthrow, I think things would be pretty much the same. Those ness - style upthrows dont kill early enough to warrant going for it over other safer kill options, especially since it requires using her not-so-great grab.

Edit: missed a crucial word

 

[SuperDavio]

So lemme get this straight. As of right now, we can confirm:

+Increased fair damage
+decreased dthrow knockback, resulting in combos
+faster recovery from thunder spells
+increased range on usmash

-... nothing?

 

[Pegasus Knight]

It doesn't just combo, it sets up Roy-esque mixups where if they don't DI or jump away from you... you can often whack them with a raw f-smash for a kill. This change is pretty big.

 

[PK Gaming]

Oh thank god. So we still have our trusty bthrow to kill, and we can combo out of dthrow.

We Ness now, baby.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves

 

[drogoth232]

So lemme get this straight. As of right now, we can confirm:
+faster recovery from thunder spells

I wasn't able to ascertain this from the data up on mastercore, but I would doubt that. If they edited the animations, they would most likely put a frame speed modifier instead of editing the animation directly. No special move is listed there, so I believe it's just placebo.

-... nothing?

Thankfully, yes.

 

[Delzethin]

So lemme get this straight. As of right now, we can confirm:

+Increased fair damage
+decreased dthrow knockback, resulting in combos
+faster recovery from thunder spells
+increased range on usmash

-... nothing?

Thunder and Elthunder hit a little harder now, as well. And bthrow might or might not have lost its ability to kill, but that one falls squarely into "who cares" with what we gained.

 

[Raziek]

Full list of changes so far:

NEW DOWN THROW
VEEEERY low knockback. True combos into Jab,/U-tilt at low%s, U-Smash/Uair at mid and up, based on character weight. CHECK-MATE.

Up throw 8 --> 9, somewhat higher knockback

bronze fair 6.5 --> 7.5
Levin fair 11 --> 12.5
Thunder 3 --> 4.5
Elthunder 9 --> 10.5

U-Smash tipper hitbox size increased. 3.2 -> 4.3, lowered slightly.

Arcthunder recovery time increased OR Arcthunder stun time increased. Either way Arcthunder is easier to follow up.

List of POSSIBLE changes that still need more testing:

Jab 2 KB increase (from Dantarion data)
B-throw/F-throw changes? (Dantarion data indicates unchanged.
Elthunder recovers slightly faster? (This one I was only able to test by eyeballing it.)

On the whole: BIG WINS ALL AROUND.

 

[drogoth232]

And bthrow might or might not have lost its ability to kill, but that one falls squarely into "who cares" with what we gained.

Rest well knowing that it hasn't lost any ability to kill whatsoever, unless Nintendo decided to stealth patch it.

Also, remember to note that Mastercore doesn't have article information (no information about projectiles). We'll have to wait on this.

I would also like to say to approach any claims to changes for any of his specials with caution. Unless there is article data which states how long Robin is stuck in his animation, I seriously doubt that he'd get any changes that aren't listed in the subactions themselves.

Overall, I am VERY pleased with Robin's buffs. Haven't played Smash4 in a while, and I might start again soon.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Full list of changes so far:

Arcthunder recovery time increased OR Arcthunder stun time increased. Either way Arcthunder is easier to follow up.

Just to check your wording, did you mean 'decreased' on recovery time, if follow-ups are easier?

 

[941]

I've played a few matches and I can say that B-throw doesn't seem to be significantly nerfed Too bad D-air is still awful, that was the one thing I wanted changed the most

 

[theyellowflash26]

One thing I wanna know. In the air, did Nosferatu always drag the opponent pretty far down? I coulda sworn it hovered more.

 

[XXII FOOL]

One thing I wanna know. In the air, did Nosferatu always drag the opponent pretty far down? I coulda sworn it hovered more.

One of my favorite things to do with robin was nosferatu people offstage and drag them down to the point where they couldn't recover. It feels the same this patch.

 

[theyellowflash26]

One of my favorite things to do with robin was nosferatu people offstage and drag them down to the point where they couldn't recover. It feels the same this patch.

Okay. I don't ever do that so I was curious since I was draggin people down to the blastzone. lol

 

[The_Cardinal]

With the arcthunder buff, I'm trying really, really hard to make arcthunder to (sh) arcfire to usmash/uair/fair/etc. a thing. Need to play around more later.