Robin Patch Data Compilation - 1.0.6/1.0.8 Notes

[Raziek]

I think you guys are over-reacting about Fire Jab a bit.

It's more unreliable, yes, but pretty much only at lower percents. I've had no trouble consistently landing Fire Jab when I need to score a kill at the 100-130 area.

 

[SuperDavio]

I think you guys are over-reacting about Fire Jab a bit.

It's more unreliable, yes, but pretty much only at lower percents. I've had no trouble consistently landing Fire Jab when I need to score a kill at the 100-130 area.

I agree with Mr. Dazzle here. The lowered knock back is only really influential on the lower end. Even heavies start being hit by it naturally around 40%or so

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I've had Dr. Mario and a few others fall out of it even around 100%ish. I may be 'overreacting' some but it is a genuine problem and makes some matchups far more of a pain in the ass than they already were.

 

[Meneil]

I actually like the jab changes. It makes us pick options, instead of 'wind jab being useless, always use fire jab.' Wind jab still has its problems and certain characters can pop out of it, but most can't do that reliably or fast enough. Wind jab does 15%. For a jab? That's kind of amazing. Yeah, the more %, the more they'll fall out of wind jab. When my opponent gets out of mid-range % and closer to mid-upper or higher %, I go more for the fire jabs.

If you know your opponent will get out of the wind and fire jab, you can alternatively just stop mid-hit, and look for follow-ups. If they're DI'ing out, it has to be up and away, so you can follow up with Fairs or just reset neutral. There's usually enough warning to recognize when an opponent will get out to do this.

 

[•Col•]

I think you guys are over-reacting about Fire Jab a bit.

It's more unreliable, yes, but pretty much only at lower percents. I've had no trouble consistently landing Fire Jab when I need to score a kill at the 100-130 area.

No, I've been testing it quite a bit. You've probably played against people that are unaware that fire jab has been changed, or on Wifi, where it's harder to time some of the escapes.

The fire jab doesn't true-combo until around past 150-ish% on medium weight characters(you can easily test this in training mode). What does this mean? Every single character in the game has a way to avoid the fire jab until that %. Characters with invincible moves, for instance Mario or Sonic, can Up B out of your firejab and punish you 100% of the time. Certain characters(typically smaller ones) can jump out of it while airdodging pretty easily if you time it correctly. Then, some of the other taller characters, like Greninja, you can merely hold down on the control stick and hold shield and you'll block the fire jab and be able to punish every single time.

Again, this is all only while they're under 150-ish%(pending their weight), however. Opponents don't typically live to 150% when I'm playing as Robin. Plus I wouldn't call any jab that doesn't work against ANY character lower than 150% reliable in any way.

If you know your opponent will get out of the wind and fire jab, you can alternatively just stop mid-hit, and look for follow-ups. If they're DI'ing out, it has to be up and away, so you can follow up with Fairs or just reset neutral. There's usually enough warning to recognize when an opponent will get out to do this.

Actually, no. I'll give you an easy example character to test with, who I already mentioned; Greninja.

Have a friend play Greninja. Have him hold down on the control stick and shield button. Then go ahead and try to 'mix him up'. If you fire jab, he'll block the hit and be able to grab or jab you. If you do nothing, he either grabs you or does an aerial out of shield or whatever. Then finally.. Wind jab. This is the only semi-safe option and only because you won't get punished 100% of the time for doing it. Even then, you can potentially be punished for using it against him. Since he was holding down and shield, he won't block in time because jab2->first hit wind jab is a true combo most of the time. But as soon as he sees the wind jab come out, he can let go of the shield button and down on the control stick, and instead smash DI away from you. Sometimes he'll be able to get out of the multihit and then attack you after you perform the final hit of the wind jab.


Fire jab really just doesn't work if you're playing against intelligent players. I can make a video showing how unreliable it really is if you'd like, but if you teach your friends how to punish your jab usage, you'll be able to better understand it for yourself.

 

[Raziek]

Is that testing including staggering the timing between jab1 and jab2? I usually delay the second swing to avoid them falling out.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I'm of the mind that you shouldn't have to adopt special timing to use your character's most basic attack when it used to work just fine. That's silly on Sakurai's part...

 

[The_Cardinal]

I'm of the mind that you shouldn't have to adopt special timing to use your character's most basic attack when it used to work just fine. That's silly on Sakurai's part...

Really? I actually think that's kind of normal, especially since you see that with other fighting games all the time. I also always manually press the button instead of holding it for fire jab so I guess I just naturally stagger the attacks.

 

[Meneil]

@ •Col•

I think you might be misinterpreting what I'm saying a bit. Robin can't just jab all the time and get away with it, yeah. But your opponent won't always be in the perfect position to DI out. Catching them in the air, or if you catch a spot dodge on the ground in your face, wind jab is great. Like Raziek said, staggering jabs makes it better too (didn't even think to mention that, because I just do it naturally). Fire jab is also situational (opponent's % / weight / position), but still a powerful tool. Robin misses out a lot, if jabs -> fire or wind aren't used at all.

 

[ThatRandomGuy42]

Might be a good idea to check out Robin today to see if anything has changed.

<1.08 STUFF STARTS HERE>

 

[Raziek]

I plan to, once I get home.

 

[RhyRhychan]

I'm pretty excited to see what they have changed... I can only hope it's good.. x.x

 

[PK Gaming]

Robin is absolutely the same

Ahahaha

 

[Elezir]

Robin is absolutely the same

Ahahaha

I suppose it beats being nerfed

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I'm guessing this thread is being used for 1.0.8?

 

[Elezir]

I'm guessing this thread is being used for 1.0.8?

Eh, I think no one made a thread for 1.0.8 because Robin doesn't seen to have changed between the two versions.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Thanks a lot, Samurai. Nerfing the top tiers is fine, but can't you buff the low tiers too?

 

[RhyRhychan]

Idk if It's just me, but Our Downthrow seems to be easier to follow up on at low %, but warrents more testing!

 

[Raziek]

I am fairly confident nothing has changed on Robin.

 

[SuperDavio]

Raziek coming through with the research!

I kinda wish we could at least give up tilt a more extended hit box towards the waist or so.

 

[RhyRhychan]

Dang, yea nothing has changed. I was really hoping for something :/

 

[Meneil]

I'd be surprised if anything changed at all. But it doesn't stop me from the hope D:

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Does that include the Jabs still being kind of borked, and books from ledges still disappearing once grabbed?

 

[Kienamaru]

According to the wiki Robin's Levin Sword and Tomes both deal 1% more damage when thrown normally. I'd need others with the previous version to tell me if that was from a previous patch or not though

 

[Raziek]

According to the wiki Robin's Levin Sword and Tomes both deal 1% more damage when thrown normally. I'd need others with the previous version to tell me if that was from a previous patch or not though

When you say 'thrown normally', do you mean just a regular toss?

Because that might be the case, but the Smash throw value is the same (15 and 18), so...

 

[Kienamaru]

I do mean a regular toss. Smash toss and discard are still the same. Arcfire deals 13 now as well. I thought it used to deal 10.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

I could've sworn that pre-patch you could press the A button twice and hold it down the second time to do the fire jab, but now I can't do that anymore, I have to press it three times. Am I just misremembering and you always had to press A three times, or did they actually just nerf Robin?

EDIT: Never mind, I'm stupid.

 

[Raziek]

I do mean a regular toss. Smash toss and discard are still the same. Arcfire deals 13 now as well. I thought it used to deal 10.

I believe Arcfire has always done 13 if you manage to get all the hits.

 

[Master_Morrison]

Robin needs more speed on moves like uptilt so we can juggle things

 

[PeejsterM]

I could've sworn that pre-patch you could press the A button twice and hold it down the second time to do the fire jab, but now I can't do that anymore, I have to press it three times. Am I just misremembering and you always had to press A three times, or did they actually just nerf Robin?

It might just be a matter of technique. I've always been able to hold the button and get all 3 moves to come out. Even in this patch I'm still able to hold the A button and get all the moves to come out, no problem.

Robin needs more speed on moves like uptilt so we can juggle things

I'd greatly prefer less endlag on Arcfire (Make the animation as fast as Fire Wall's?), but that's just me.

 

[Kienamaru]

I believe Arcfire has always done 13 if you manage to get all the hits.

Well then. 1% buff on normal tosses is such a small change though...

 

[Owl_Flavored]

I'm pretty sure I found a change...

When Robin does his/her rapid tab jab combo that ends in the wind tome flurry attack (not the fire one), after the wind attack finishes, Robin is now pushed backwards a bit, making it slightly harder to follow up. Others are telling me this is old news, BUT, what I'm fairly sure is new that when Robin is on the very edge of a ledge, Robin actually falls off the side of the stage after doing this combo. I had a match where I wasn't expecting to be going into the fall and started charging up the thunder tome and ended up killing myself :-/

 

[Raziek]

According to the wiki Robin's Levin Sword and Tomes both deal 1% more damage when thrown normally. I'd need others with the previous version to tell me if that was from a previous patch or not though

Ok, so I did some testing.

1.03 3DS: Tome: 15. Sword: 12.
1.07 3DS: Tome: 15. Sword: 12.
1.08 WIi U: Tome: 15. Sword: 12.

Those were all at point-blank distance.

From farther away I started to see some variation. I got 11% on a sword toss (from a further distance) a few times, which I think is probably where the confusion is coming from?

 

[Raziek]

I'm pretty sure I found a change...

When Robin does his/her rapid tab jab combo that ends in the wind tome flurry attack (not the fire one), after the wind attack finishes, Robin is now pushed backwards a bit, making it slightly harder to follow up. Others are telling me this is old news, BUT, what I'm fairly sure is new that when Robin is on the very edge of a ledge, Robin actually falls off the side of the stage after doing this combo. I had a match where I wasn't expecting to be going into the fall and started charging up the thunder tome and ended up killing myself :-/

This is also in fact true. Was able to verify by testing 1.07 3DS vs. 1.08 Wii U.

So we do have an actual change.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

That amounts to another small nerf to the jab, doesn't it? This does not sound like it helps us much at all?

 

[Moydow]

I wonder what changed? It looks like he steps back the same distance, from comparing recordings of the two (can't check for myself if he falls off in 1.0.7 though).

Would it have anything to do with the general change to ledges that people are talking about? (I'm not sure of the exact details of what changed there)

 

[Raziek]

I wonder what changed? It looks like he steps back the same distance, from comparing recordings of the two (can't check for myself if he falls off in 1.0.7 though).

Would it have anything to do with the general change to ledges that people are talking about? (I'm not sure of the exact details of what changed there)

Apparently prior to this patch Robin was the only character that could not slide off a ledge during the rapid jab. We have been normalized with the rest of the cast. The step is identical.

I verified it by not sliding off in 1.07.

 

[941]

I guess the jab change could help if you miss the 3rd jab, but overall it seems like a nerf. It would be nice to see the Levin sword nerfs from the Mewtwo patch reverted, and maybe a slightly faster N-air and/or D-air so Robin isn't just combo-food once He/She is in the air.

 

[Tectrix]

I guess the jab change could help if you miss the 3rd jab, but overall it seems like a nerf. It would be nice to see the Levin sword nerfs from the Mewtwo patch reverted, and maybe a slightly faster N-air and/or D-air so Robin isn't just combo-food once He/She is in the air.

How did the Levin sword get nerfed?

 

[941]

If I remember correctly, Robin was able to use 2 more Levin sword charges before discarding it. It seemed pretty unnecessary, given that Robin was never considered a particularly strong character.