ROB Tournament Discussion

[ccst]

LoL Mister Eric is always optimistic, no matter what. Love that! ([^^]

 

[stingers]

new matchup chart, ROBs MUs


-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

I think we're +1 against ICs, -1 against Peach, -1 against Olimar, 0 against GaW, and +1 against DK

if I had to change things

 

[Mister Eric]

I think peach can be neural if you know how to gtfo and reset before she racks up loads of dmg. I think snake can be in our favour. IC is in our favour fo sho

 

[Silhouette]

IC's and DK should be 1 imo, snake should be -2 and MK should be at least -4.

 

[-LzR-]

Lol why is Sonic +2. I think he does pretty even with Robot.

 

[Silhouette]

Nah sonic banks on the hit and run. Laser stops him from being comfortable on the ground for very long and gyro stops his spin-dash approaches.

 

[Mister Eric]

i dont get when snake became a problem lol

LoL Mister Eric is always optimistic, no matter what. Love that! ([^^]

haha thanks.
tho you should never ignore the problem, i dont think being a debbie downer helps anyone ^_^

 

[Silhouette]

lol snakes broken.

 

[Mister Eric]

umm, jab, gimp, read landing with grabs
...idk

 

[ccst]

Who made that list?

 

[Cubone]

The BBR made it @ ccst

I disagree with this list so much... my opinion on it


-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

Metaknight falls somewhere between -2 and -3 imo, DDD is worse for us.

 

[Mister Eric]

i dont remember what numbers i put on the list when i contributed to this, but i could dig mine up right quick to see how much i really "hurt" the list xD

even tho I'm not in the BBR, I was asked to help. idk who else's say went in. all i know is, i was told to put a number next to each MU like you guys see above me.

edit:
found it:

My List

Meta Knight -2.5
Snake, =
Diddy Kong, +1
Falco -1
Wario -1
Marth -1 (tho i'd rather say -0.5 xD)
Ice Climbers +2
Olimar +1
Pikachu =
King Dedede -2.5
Mr. Game & Watch -1
Lucario +1
Zero Suit Samus =
Toon Link -2
Kirby =
Fox -1
R.O.B. +4
Pit =
Peach =
Donkey Kong +1
Luigi +2
Wolf +1
(Zelda/Sheik) -2
Sonic +1
Ike +1
Sheik -1
Ness +1
Pokémon Trainer +1
Yoshi +1
Lucas +1
Mario +1
Bowser +2
Captain Falcon +3
Samus +2
Jigglypuff +1
Link +3
Zelda +1
Ganondorf +2

first off, sorry that im so scared of shiek/zelda and TL lol
2nd, "=" means "0"


--------------


to further edit this post, I will list the original produced list, and then a list that shows the difference between that list and my list

The way to understand this list is, for example, I have Olimar listed as +1 on my list, and it's a -2 on the final list...so on my difference list, it goes from +1 to -2 which is a -3 decrease. and since i have shiek/zelda as a -2 on my list and it's a 0 on that list, then it went up +2 which is the value on my Difference list.


Original List


-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:


Difference between mine and the original list (hope it's not too confusing)

Meta Knight Same
Snake -1
Diddy Kong, -1
Falco -1
Wario -1
Marth +1
Ice Climbers -2
Olimar -3 (wtf?)
Pikachu -1
King Dedede Same
Mr. Game & Watch Same
Lucario -2
Zero Suit Samus -2 (wth, rly?)
Toon Link +1
Kirby Same
Fox -1
R.O.B. beep
Pit -1
Peach Same
Donkey Kong -1
Luigi -1
Wolf +1
(Zelda/Sheik) +2
Sonic +1
Ike Same
Sheik +2
Ness Same
Pokémon Trainer +1
Yoshi Same
Lucas Same
Mario Same
Bowser -1
Captain Falcon -1
Samus -1
Jigglypuff +1
Link -2
Zelda Same
Ganondorf Same

 

[sneakytako]

ZSS is terrible, I lost to Y.b.M. AGAIN. He goes ZSS against me 90% of the time, with exception of stages that are overwhelmingly good for D3. I cannot recover high against ZSS and avoiding Dsmash is a pain. Worse than the falco MU, and MK imo.

 

[Mister Eric]

ZSS is terrible, I lost to Y.b.M. AGAIN. He goes ZSS against me 90% of the time, with exception of stages that are overwhelmingly good for D3. I cannot recover high against ZSS and avoiding Dsmash is a pain. Worse than the falco MU, and MK imo.

no wayz!
If I can take almost 2 games (i took one and almost had him on RC) from Nick Riddle in a set, and not feel pressured when fighting ybm (not that his zss isnt good, but i really dont sweat while playing it) at all, then im not going to think it's bad.

i think it's even if not in our favor lol

 

[CT Chia]

Def not our favor, but it's in no way as bad as the worst matchups. Both Nick Riddle and I thought the matchup to be -2 for us, though it has potential to be -1 imo but that infinite is BS lol

 

[Mister Eric]

I will meet inthe middle and my middle is neutral xD

 

[sneakytako]

BTW we destroy bowser so hard, I played a lot of friendlies with fizzle and came to the conclusion that grounded gyro makes the MU 70:30. Bowser +2

And how does fox destroy us? I don't have much experience in the MU but I two stocked 4bidden in pools iirc. All you have to do is out space him and never eat DACUS imo Q.Q. +1 Fox

 

[stingers]

fox doesnt have a good dacus... lol

 

[GwJ]

I can't even do Fox's DACUS.

 

[sneakytako]

Its not that his dacus is good, it's just his Upsmash is ****.

 

[Mister Eric]

I do feel that our floatyness hurts us in the fox mu and he's able to rack up dmg reasonably well. I wish fox was as slow as falco, then i would <3 him.
Sometimes I feel like the guy can hyphen smash us before we know it >.>
But yeah, i dont think it's anything worse than -1 tho.

 

[TeeVee]

wario and snake are alot harder for rob than zss and olimar, all 4 are pretty damn bad though. snake would be 50 - 50 with no lgl though, same with falco, same with diddy. at top level atm with a lgl, diddy has the advantage whether you guys wanna admit it or not lol. d3 is harder than mk but not by much at all. we have a +1 vs ics, and it would be +2 with no lgl.



i feel like im the only rob who thinks wario is so bad, i want to know why you guys dont think it is? what warios have you guys played in tournament, what was the result, how do you recover vs him when he has a fart, how do you kill him reliably, etc.



i feel like ill be dominating every stock but still die first at 80 off stage vs a smart wario since all they have to do is wait for anything when we are recovering and punish with a fart. any wario that whiffs farts on stage does not know the matchup at all.





also, fox outcamps us, is faster than us, juggles us, kills us at 90 every stock, and is alot harder to gimp than falco since his fair has dumb priority and up b has alot more range. matchup is deff not in robs favor.

 

[stingers]

i played reflex in tourney once. he 3 stocked me on RC after I tripped on a floating carpet and died off the side first stock >.>

but I beat him on FD at least. basically I camped really hard and chased him really far offstage because wario's really limited in what he can do (like if you hit him off his bike its instant death). making wario approach helps a lot because we can beat him directly as long as we don't let him weave in and out and control where we're trying to go. FH fair works good to beat them when they're rising at the beginning of their jump or when they're falling after they've used their DJ but not when they're at their apex OR when they have their DJ because they can outmaneuver us too easily.
its a lot safer to hit them when they're rising initially because for them to avoid it they'd have to waste their DJ, and doing so that early is pressuring them in a weird kind of way lol. but...otherwise brickwall with bairs and retreating gyros. dont really laser too much its not fast/mobile enough. and having a strong laser can help u edgeguard later on down the road

offstage I just rolled up an L and stayed high. its a lot easier to come down onstage against wario then other chars so its not really that bad a deal

 

[Silhouette]

I agree that Wario is really bad for ROB, and TeeVee you summed it up pretty well. -Lead the whole freakin stock, die first at 80- and the best advice I can give is U-tilt, walk and U-tilt A LOT. It stops most of his air approaches when timed right. Sadly I dont have any amazing advice to get back on stage..


For Fox, dont get hit by D-air. Hes GOING to approach from above, bait it and pivot grab, and abuse platforms to screw with his approach.

 

[Heartstring]

i dont have much trouble with fox using r.o.b, i used to have hell dealing with him using ike though
his dair beat our u-tilt, so its a case of shielding.
when timed correctly, fox has nothing he can do once landing with d-air that is faster than our dsmash.
if he's laser happy, ftilt him away all day.
its a case of fox wanting to get in (once we get to a certain percentage) and us wanting to keep out
our ftilt stops everything he has to get in other than d-air, and i already said about that XD

as for wario, u-tilt and grab, get a grab release, f-air him at low percents and try and hit again, and higher percents u-smash

 

[-LzR-]

I don't think Rob can grab release Wario.

 

[Sudai]

If Wario inputs a jump command he can. Or if Wario's feet are off the ground due to a slope.

 

[ccst]

If you grab release Wario it's a free Uair. And if you want to come back onstage against Wario; wait until he comes offstage (ready to fart you), but be close to the blast zones so he'll realise that he can't make it. Then try your best to come back onstage (perhaps to the other side?) and/or try to gimp him. It's hard to explain but it does work for me at least. Even if it isn't super safe it's better than nothing. And the MU is probably R.O.B. 45:55 Wario.

And I'll post my own ratios later to see what you guys think.

 

[CT Chia]

Wario needs to mess up to get the jump release, but if you get it, it's cash. Free uair or usmash, best damaging move and best kill move. Warios not that bad, he really isnt. The worst part is trying to recover properly without getting farted.

Stingers go to Xanadu 3. I think a car from NC is going.

 

[TeeVee]

top warios wont mash ._.


only time your gonna get something out of a grab release is on a brinstar ramp (where you are gonna lose anyway) or if you grab him when hes recovering offstage and you'll only get a fair out of it

i will never ever use rob vs wario in tourny again lol, the matchup is just 100x easier for diddy



if only wario didnt have a fart

 

[Heartstring]

so wait...are there only certain characters who can force wario to air release?
i swear it was anyone could providing you pummeled once

 

[Mister Eric]

only time your gonna get something out of a grab release is on a brinstar ramp (where you are gonna lose anyway)

What about lyat?

or if you grab him when hes recovering offstage and you'll only get a fair out of it

Also to note, if a Wario has lost his jump when you air release him from the ledge, I'm thinking it's an infinite (pummel > grab > loop) if timed right.
idk tho if he has his jump =/ we have one wario in the MW:E and I never get to play him

 

[CT Chia]

that is why i CP lylat vs wario

 

[stingers]

ill see what I can do chibo. doubt it though =p

and tv of course its easier for diddy lol but we're not talking about the diddy vs. wario MU on the ROB boards. if u wanna use diddy though thats w/e but we're all here for ROB so =p

 

[ccst]

What about lyat?



Also to note, if a Wario has lost his jump when you air release him from the ledge, I'm thinking it's an infinite (pummel > grab > loop) if timed right.
idk tho if he has his jump =/ we have one wario in the MW:E and I never get to play him

That's right. When he loses his double jump it's a true infinite, but you have to be "frame" perfect to do it right though, or else he'll fart you. Notice that you also can do it on platforms like Battlefield too.

 

[Heartstring]

That's right. When he loses his double jump it's a true infinite, but you have to be "frame" perfect to do it right though, or else he'll jump away or even fart you. Notice that you also can do it on platforms like Battlefield too.

ccst, read your post again XD
when he loses his double jump its a true infinite
frame perfect else he'll jump away
XD
well srsly. wario cant be that hard, its easy enough to do crap to him from grab release, up-pointed fsmash, usmash, f-air, u-air (not so sure this works)
also, tournament in germany on the 12th march, ccst, you going?

 

[ccst]

Sorry, my bad as usual, I've edited it! xD
If you grab release Wario you can do an Uair, I promise that. But the timing is stricter than an Up-smash for instance.
Nope, never heard of it and I have school work to do anyway like always. And I don't have much money either. Are you going to attend it G-p?

 

[Heartstring]

right, cause i know ike can aether wario out of grab release, but he doesnt get knocked into the rest of the hitbox's, thought it might be a similar scenario.

also, i am going, and its going to be **** ^.^
its on the weekend anywayz, so you could do it if you go friday night and come back sunday night, but meh, its a little late now

 

[-LzR-]

Can't Wario like just SDI out of uair without much trouble as he can expect it when getting released. I wouldn't do it.

 

[Sudai]

With that logic, anyone can SDI out of it and we should never use it. Really, if the Wario is dumb enough to be grab released, he's probably dumb enough to get hit by all of UAir. If you -know- they're gonna SDI the UAir though, just use a diff move. Not that hard.