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Rob Official Matchup Discussion: Bowser

Syde7

The Sultan of Smut
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Ok, so we are ALLLLMOST DONE. After this, just TWO more weeks, and we'll have all the MU's done (assuming we use PKM trainer as 1, and do the ROB ditto matchup)

So, lets get on it broskis. This week is Ganondorf & Bowser. This particular thread is about Bowser


ROB's Advantages:

ROB's Disadvantages:


Opponent's Advantages:

Opponent's Disadvantages:

What ROB should try to do:

How opponent can stop it:

What Opponent should be trying to do:

How ROB can stop it:

Counterpicks (what ROB should pick/ What opponent will pick {If you're someone contributing from another board})
Bans (what ROB should ban 1 via stage strike, 1 via personal ban)
Preferred Neutral (what ROB wants/ What opponent wants {If you're someone contributing from another board})

Ratio:

Plus, any anecdotes/explanations you wanna give.
 

TheMike

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
1,860
Location
Brazil
ROB's Advantages:

Gimp
Camp
Nair/Bair beats Bowser's UpB, whick means really good EG
Good punish with Dsmash

ROB's Disadvantages:

Can be well punished with UpB OoS
Loses at Close Game
He's big =0

Opponent's Advantages:

Good punish with UpB OoS
Grab Release setting up combos
Better Close Game with Ftilt, Jab, Grab Release and others
Side B is just.. amazing

Opponent's Disadvantages:

Few Air options
ROB's Gimp **** him
Can be Edgeguarded very easy

What ROB should try to do:

Gimp or Camp
Abuse from Aerials Attacks
Attention whenever is time to punish

How opponent can stop it:

Approach and try to always play close to ROB
UpB OoS so as to avoid ROB's Air Pillar
Avoid Lag attacks so as not to be punished with Dsmas OoS/Spotdodge>Dsmash

What Opponent should be trying to do:

Abusing of UpB and Side B
Approach and use his quick ground attacks with good range

How ROB can stop it:

Camp so as to avoid approach
Whenever possible, gimp Bowser

Counterpicks:

ROB --> Rainbow Cruise(better recovery, better air game and camp when Bowser gets far away from u), Frigate(?)
Bowser --> Battlefield(easy Side B kills)

Ban:

ROB --> BF
Bowser --> RC

Preferred Neutral:

ROB --> FD
Bowser --> Battlefield


I'll do the same, contact Bowser Boards to help with the discussion =P
 

Fraser

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
259
Location
Edmonton
When Bowsers is at high damages or has just had the **** put on him stay away from the sides of the stage. having a 0-90 life ruined by a suicide match evener sucks. Also stay away on last life, most tourneys use the suicider wins rule. Bowser may try to pull this and get an easy win.... Its sucks. Downdoge downsmash if ur at the edge and its a godd time for him to try it. usually works for me.....
 

Alfa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
197
Location
Victoria, Australia
First off, some Bowser basics:

Threads:

Grab Release in general:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193617

Ground Release Chaingrab:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193617&page=14

Bowser Frame Data:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206219

The actual data:

Grab Release Data:

Jump Release:

Grab release fair

Ground Release:

Grab release regrab (small step chaingrab)
Grab release overb
Grab release downb
Grab release ftilt
Grab release dtilt
Grab release jab

Important things Frame-wise:

Jab: First hits on frame 6
F-tilt: First hits on frame 10
Fair: First hits on frame 8 – 10 at least
Up-B: First hits on frame 6
Invincible frames 1-5

This is just some of the basic Bowser stuff that should come in handy in this discussion.

The Match:

Alright, ROBs, if you want to win this match, camp, camp, and then camp some more. Bowser is powerless to stop you camping with your neutral B, his only option is to run in and attack you (probably with a rising fair, or jab/Ftilt), at which time you can just Dsmash/Sidestep ->Dsmash or whatever comes out faster than Bowser's attacks to knock Bowser away again. It's best to save your gyro for a bit and either (A) charge it then wait for the perfect opportunity, as any grounded Boswer will have their finger poised over the shield button, or (B) get some space, then shoot it weakly and pick it up again, ready to glide toss into Bowser, as Bowser can do very little in this situation, except get hit, shield and get grabbed, or dogde whatever the ROB did and get Dsmashed in the lag.

NEVER jump towards Bowser when he's on the ground he will either (A)Shield, then UpBOOS (One of, if not the best OOS option in the game), (B), shield, then grab you for a grab release chaingrab/Fair, (C) Ftilt/Jab you to the face, (D) use another, viable, but most likely less effective option (like Dtilt), (E) punish bad spacing with Fsmash (33% fresh, uncharged), or (F) screw up and get hit. This is why you don't approach Bowser, but instead let him jump into the **** come to you.

NEVER relax against Bowser, he can deal huge amounts of damage in a short time, and even suicide on you fairly easily. Remember, Bowser is THE heaviest character in the game, can kill at low percents fairly easily, has quite a few tricks up his sleeve (like suiciding, and jab cancled Down B, which is guaranteed shield break if you don't powershield) and Bowser won't go down easily. Also remember never to let your shield get broken, a fresh, fully charged Fsmash will do 46%.

Stages:

ROB needs to spend his entire time camping, then maybe gimping if the opportunity arrise, but first priority when picking stage should always be camping, so stages like FD and Japes should come first on the counterpick list (take them before RC, Bowser has a alright set of aerials, can koopa hop everywhere, and the walk off lets Bowser chaingrab you off the stage easily, maybe as a second or third counterpick, but not first). Friggin Orphean isn't a bad stage either for counterpicking Bowser on, but think twice about Brinstar, as Bowser kills early there, and you can't camp very effectively. All up, Japes is probably the best choice, as it's a horrible Bowser stage, and a great ROB one, but FD is probably next in line.

Bowser will probably counterpick BF, Green Greens, or Yoshi's, as they discourage camping, and Bowser has a few tricks of BF, whilst Green Greens is a small stage, without much offstage to be gimped on, and Yoshi's just discourages camping, and the support platform might save him. Although Yoshi's isn't a great Bowser stage, it's probably better than other stages.

Out of the four starters, Yoshi's and BF are bad stages for ROB to play on, whilst FD and Smashville are good. I don't really care about Starte/Counter stages, as my local tourney just has random with those four though, but it shouldn't be too hard to work out what's good and bad (Castle siege has walkoffs = Bowser Chaingrabs = Bad for ROB).

Overall:

Overall, Bowser can't handle camping, and as such, is mostly screwed, probably a 65 - 35 match, just remember, don't relax and let Bowser get you, or he's going to f*** s*** up.

Edits:
1. Added write up, read it, it's got all the basics of the match.
2. @Stingers135: Of course it's guaranteed! Didn't you wonder how(A) Bowser got to where he is on the tier list and (B) why Bowsers entire moveset isn't just listed then? Bowser can do some pretty cool s*** (see Wario in the Bowser Grab Release thread: infinite chaingrab and grab release Fsmash).
 

MrEh

Smash Hero
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Aug 24, 2008
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Yes, all of those are guaranteed from a grab release.


That being said, Bowser is easy. Just run away and camp him all day.
 

Muro

Smash Lord
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Feb 25, 2009
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Portugal
what are u supposed to do if ur grabbed by bowser then? mash jump? also when he grabs u with side b remember to DI to the stage if he goes for the suicide.
 

Dementophobic

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
7
what are u supposed to do if ur grabbed by bowser then? mash jump? also when he grabs u with side b remember to DI to the stage if he goes for the suicide.

typically mashing and airbreak i find is your best option since from a groundbreak it's easy for a bowser to regrab you or get an unescapable ftilt on you
 

Terodactyl Yelnats

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Bowser is one of the most incredibly easy characters to gimp with rob, his UpB does go pretty far horizontally but its easy to predict the path it goes. It gets easy to spike bowser out of his upB and steal a stock once you figure out how he recovers.
 

CT Chia

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i hate the MU v bowser. its practically the opposite of every ROB MU.

DONT CAMP

PLAY AS AGGRESSIVE AS HUMANOIDLY POSSIBLY

believe me, for everyone who says camp, they dont really know the MU i assure you
 

A2ZOMG

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You only be aggressive after you get in a hit. Approaching his shield on the other hand is a bad idea.

And always avoid BF. This is Bowser's best stage by far. It helps set up his Up-tilt, Up-smash, aerials, limits approach angles from above platforms, and most importantly, Bowser's recovery can be unpredictable on this stage with platforms to mix up where he's going to land.

On FD however Bowser loses most of his advantages, while ROB of course really shines on this stage. If you play right, Bowser can't really feasibly recover on stages that don't have platforms. His recovery is one of the worst in this game due to its predictability and relatively low priority outside of its invul frames.
 

GwJ

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Eh. It's just that FD is better. BF allows for a bunch of Koopa Klaw trixies as well as platform ****.
 

Darth Waffles

Smash Lord
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Mar 4, 2008
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Orefield, PA
Bowser + Bowser's range = at least 1/4 the size of Battlefield, if not more. ROB racks up a lot of damage from projectiles and forcing Bowser to approach. The opportunities to camp are really diminished when Bowser can move two inches and be in attacking range or control the platforms well.

On an unrelated note, I made a couple nice breakthroughs in my ROB-playing game =)
 
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