Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[jam1garner]

Thank you. Imagine a character that had a Falcon knee but when you got hit by it froze you in ice and left you open for punishes.

That actually sounds really cool! Here is that source: http://www.reddit.com/r/RivalsOfAet...mewhat_stupid_and_disrespectful_moves/csm8xn0 but for the lazy here is the text version:


Falcon's Knee isn't that disrespectful imo. But we have something coming along the lines of disrespect

 

[TotalConnor]

Thanks again, looking forward to what Dan has in store for the new characters.

 

[TotalConnor]

dogfish = godfish

So is moon walking confirmed for RoA or is this a hack?

 

[RoA_Zam]

So is moon walking confirmed for RoA or is this a hack?

It's a hack. I've been hacking the game to test things out recently.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

In reference to this thread on reddit...

http://www.reddit.com/r/RivalsOfAether/comments/3ejam4/parries_feel_too_powerful/

Would 'parry breaking' moves potentially be a thing? I think Kragg for one could really use some type of parry breaking on a few of his moves because he is SO vulnerable to good parries.

Any thoughts from other testers?

 

[Big Papi]

In reference to this thread on reddit...

http://www.reddit.com/r/RivalsOfAether/comments/3ejam4/parries_feel_too_powerful/

Would 'parry breaking' moves potentially be a thing? I think Kragg for one could really use some type of parry breaking on a few of his moves because he is SO vulnerable to good parries.

Any thoughts from other testers?

Do you mean an attack that cancels the stun received from being parried? Or an attack that just ignores the opponents parry (essentially an unparryable move)? If so, I'd disagree.

If anything, my off-the-dome idea for that would be a more technical "parry clank". So what I mean by that is: You know the opponent is about to parry your attack, then you can parry at the same time (mid attack animation) in order cause a type of clanking animation.
To balance that out, your parry will not cancel your own attack animation if the opponent does not parry your move. As a result, the move could have tremendous cool down added to the end of the attack to punish you for an unsuccessful parry clank. It shouldn't be safe to try to parry clank in the middle of each attack you throw out.
In my opinion, parry clank should also be difficult to pull off. So the player trying to protect themselves from the parry should have a smaller frame window to clank the parry. Making the game a little more technical.

Anyways, I'm completely satisfied with what we have now.

As a follow up question to everyone, does anyone feel like the game should be slightly more technical? (Such as parry clank for an example.) Why or why not?

 

[Chuck Tatum]

The game is highly technical. There is plenty of crazy stuff that 'can' be done that people are not doing yet... which is totally normal for a game in beta with 40 testers total.

It's not as technical as melee but honestly can come pretty close at certain moments. Considering it's supposed to be a more accessible title I don't think it should be pushed much further in that direction.

That being said... if parrying is an issue (and I would like to see those match videos referenced to be sure...) then I'm not sure what the solution would be. I imagine that this late in development something like Parry Clank is probably not workable and that implementation seems like it might have some issues (accessibility for new players being a big one since it will be hard to explain in a clear/intuitive way, for example.)

Personally I feel that Wrastor can play around and bait parries pretty easily if he knows his opponent is fishing for them. Other characters probably have more trouble. We have a player in our playgroup who parries a TON and it was become less effective as we have gotten better. I am not sure that excessive parrying is really a problem at all... it may just be that there is a certain phase of player skill development where parries are dominant.

 

[TotalConnor]

The game is highly technical. There is plenty of crazy stuff that 'can' be done that people are not doing yet... which is totally normal for a game in beta with 40 testers total.

It's not as technical as melee but honestly can come pretty close at certain moments. Considering it's supposed to be a more accessible title I don't think it should be pushed much further in that direction.

That being said... if parrying is an issue (and I would like to see those match videos referenced to be sure...) then I'm not sure what the solution would be. I imagine that this late in development something like Parry Clank is probably not workable and that implementation seems like it might have some issues (accessibility for new players being a big one since it will be hard to explain in a clear/intuitive way, for example.)

I agree with Chuck here, the game is fast paced and has some cool tech but is not as demanding in APM as Melee or PM. This not only opens it up to a wider audience but will allow for people to play for a longer time. I hate seeing people like Mew2King having to distance them selves from Melee because it is to taxing on their hands to play. This game is great where it is and it is up to Dan whether or not he wants to implement more smash tech or create his own to add to the game.

However, that does not mean that I myself don't want to see some tech added to the game. Nothing major just fun little things. I got sad when Zetterburn told me that the Orcane video he posted earlier that looked like he was moon walking was just a hack and not a game feature (wink wink Dan).

As for the issue with parries, pfffffffff I don't know.

 

[Big Papi]

The game is highly technical. There is plenty of crazy stuff that 'can' be done that people are not doing yet... which is totally normal for a game in beta with 40 testers total.

It's not as technical as melee but honestly can come pretty close at certain moments. Considering it's supposed to be a more accessible title I don't think it should be pushed much further in that direction.

That being said... if parrying is an issue (and I would like to see those match videos referenced to be sure...) then I'm not sure what the solution would be. I imagine that this late in development something like Parry Clank is probably not workable and that implementation seems like it might have some issues (accessibility for new players being a big one since it will be hard to explain in a clear/intuitive way, for example.)

Personally I feel that Wrastor can play around and bait parries pretty easily if he knows his opponent is fishing for them. Other characters probably have more trouble. We have a player in our playgroup who parries a TON and it was become less effective as we have gotten better. I am not sure that excessive parrying is really a problem at all... it may just be that there is a certain phase of player skill development where parries are dominant.

Honestly, I don't think parrying is a problem. That was just some idea that came up as an alternative for your suggested "parry breaking" moves.

Also, I agree. The reason I love this game is because of how less technical it is and more inviting of a game. But when you're saying it already is pretty technical, what specific things are you referring to?

I think I'd agree with @ TotalConnor in the sense that I would like to see a little more minor technical things added to the game rather than anything major. Not sure what I'm looking for though.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

When I say the game is already pretty technical I am mostly referring to wavedashing, wave landing, and proper shffing. That might not seem like a lot but there are things that can be done in this game with those techniques that weren't possible in melee. From what I have seen the tech skill barrier has not been reached yet in this game by any of the testers.

 

[theopenlink22]

Forsburns Up Strong NEEDS to be buffed. I have never landed it, the cape makes it very hard to land. Change the knockback or the attack in general.

 

[Big Papi]

Streaming for a bit. Twitchtv/BigPapi108
Nevermind. My laptop is scrubby.

 

[4nace]

The Parry discussion is really interesting. Was a good read. I am still thinking of their place in high level play. A parry clank is a cool idea but would have rippling effects on the gameplay. Might not be too hard to test out but would take a ton of time to see its impact on the neutral. Right now I plan to ride parries out into Steam Early Access then look at feedback after more people are playing.

I also have been keeping notes while I have been traveling about feedback I've seen here and on reddit. I love cool character specific tech but I do want it to be achievable by a variety of players without too many hours mastering it. I will take a good hard look at moonwalking after Super Smash Con. System-wide tech like that can be a bit harder to implement but is worth looking at for those swagger moments.

-Dan

 

[Chuck Tatum]

A lot of the tech stuff from melee was unintentional. I don't know if games really benefit from shoehorning in 'tech skill' stuff just for the sake of it.

It seems to me that every mechanic should be there for a reason and sometimes glitches/exploits are found and need to be evaluated for their impact at that time.

 

[Mum]

A lot of the tech stuff from melee was unintentional. I don't know if games really benefit from shoehorning in 'tech skill' stuff just for the sake of it.

It seems to me that every mechanic should be there for a reason and sometimes glitches/exploits are found and need to be evaluated for their impact at that time.

It seems that was a consideration in RoA though. Take for instance L-Cancelling: that was an intentionally programmed mechanic, but is arguably unnecessary due to there being no reason NOT to L-Cancel when possible. That's why it's not in RoA. Washdashing, however, was unintentional yet it actually proved useful for spacing and is thus why it was added to RoA.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

God I am so happy there is no l-cancelling. It was just AWFUL trying to teach new players melee and having them come to the realization that if they do not learn how to l-cancel they will never be able to compete.

4Nace, IMO, has a very good grasp on what should be included (wavedashing) and what should be stripped (l-cancelling) and it's all about the density of decisions within the design space.

 

[Tene_Sicarius]

(On the parry topic)

How about some form of a falcon punch? It doesn't need to be copy pasted, but just some kind of telegraphed, slow move with the strength of an uncharged strong attack? Then make it kill extremely early if it is parried. It could be the new disrespectful attack.

 

[Death By Hugs]

The game is highly technical. There is plenty of crazy stuff that 'can' be done that people are not doing yet... which is totally normal for a game in beta with 40 testers total.

It's not as technical as melee but honestly can come pretty close at certain moments. Considering it's supposed to be a more accessible title I don't think it should be pushed much further in that direction.

That being said... if parrying is an issue (and I would like to see those match videos referenced to be sure...) then I'm not sure what the solution would be. I imagine that this late in development something like Parry Clank is probably not workable and that implementation seems like it might have some issues (accessibility for new players being a big one since it will be hard to explain in a clear/intuitive way, for example.)

Personally I feel that Wrastor can play around and bait parries pretty easily if he knows his opponent is fishing for them. Other characters probably have more trouble. We have a player in our playgroup who parries a TON and it was become less effective as we have gotten better. I am not sure that excessive parrying is really a problem at all... it may just be that there is a certain phase of player skill development where parries are dominant.

New idea on the parry topic:
Parries are breakable. At the start of the match, your parries are not breakable. But the amount of damage it can block lowers for each missed parry. Assuming no attack will ever do more than 50%, parries start out being able to block just that. For every parry you miss, though, it subtracts 5%. Miss ten parries and it doesn't work anymore.

 

[TotalConnor]

The Parry discussion is really interesting. Was a good read. I am still thinking of their place in high level play. A parry clank is a cool idea but would have rippling effects on the gameplay. Might not be too hard to test out but would take a ton of time to see its impact on the neutral. Right now I plan to ride parries out into Steam Early Access then look at feedback after more people are playing.

I also have been keeping notes while I have been traveling about feedback I've seen here and on reddit. I love cool character specific tech but I do want it to be achievable by a variety of players without too many hours mastering it. I will take a good hard look at moonwalking after Super Smash Con. System-wide tech like that can be a bit harder to implement but is worth looking at for those swagger moments.

-Dan

Thanks so much for giving things like moon walking a look. I am looking forward to some swag moments. As for the Steam Early Access when can we expect it? During Smash Con, after, or am I just impatient and naggy?

 

[jam1garner]

Thanks so much for giving things like moon walking a look. I am looking forward to some swag moments. As for the Steam Early Access when can we expect it? During Smash Con, after, or am I just impatient and naggy?

The current goal is for early access to be released in late August or early September to our knowledge.

New idea on the parry topic:
Parries are breakable. At the start of the match, your parries are not breakable. But the amount of damage it can block lowers for each missed parry. Assuming no attack will ever do more than 50%, parries start out being able to block just that. For every parry you miss, though, it subtracts 5%. Miss ten parries and it doesn't work anymore.

I think that would be better modeled exponentially, something like It can block 105% at first then 55% after one missed parry then 30%, drawing closer and closer to 5%, meaning you will be able to miss ~3 without losing the ability to parry almost every move, but still be able to parry jabs even after missing as many parries as you want. I also think missed parries should be counted for ~2 minutes, so that your parry will recharge. Personally I don't think parries need nerfs, but more of that kragg needs a tool to deal with them.

 

[steak4prez]

Here's an idea for parries that retains their functionality but makes them require more skill to use.

In Smash 4, Shulk has a custom for his Counter where the Counter is more effective but the more frequently you use it, the less frames of invulnerability you have/the less powerful the counter is. Make parries like that.
Have it so that by default, parries have x amount of 'parry frames' and inflict y amount of 'stun frames' when triggered. After a parry is used, set a timer where the amount of parry frames and stun frames are set to (x - 10) and (y - 10) respectively. As time passes and the player doesn't use parry, the number subtracted from x and y steadily decreases to 0, and the parry returns to maximum effectiveness. Thus, spamming parry is discouraged and good, precise parries are rewarded.

If you wanted to, you could even make it so that only failed parries cause that timer to happen to reward skilled parries even more.

 

[someonetookjacob]

Here's an idea for parries that retains their functionality but makes them require more skill to use.

In Smash 4, Shulk has a custom for his Counter where the Counter is more effective but the more frequently you use it, the less frames of invulnerability you have/the less powerful the counter is. Make parries like that.
Have it so that by default, parries have x amount of 'parry frames' and inflict y amount of 'stun frames' when triggered. After a parry is used, set a timer where the amount of parry frames and stun frames are set to (x - 10) and (y - 10) respectively. As time passes and the player doesn't use parry, the number subtracted from x and y steadily decreases to 0, and the parry returns to maximum effectiveness. Thus, spamming parry is discouraged and good, precise parries are rewarded.

If you wanted to, you could even make it so that only failed parries cause that timer to happen to reward skilled parries even more.

I like this idea the most so far, but think it should definitely only incur the penalty on missed parries.

I think I read somewhere that sense the june build parry end lag was increased. Assuming I am correct about that I think in general I agree with most of you, parries are probably okay. High level play will just have a bit of a different feel for footsies at higher percents, more baiting out parries and fishing for parries to start combos. Its not that different from trying to bait out an unsafe move and punishing that.

As for Kragg. He is kind of dumb strong at lowlevel play, and gets worse and worse as people get better (Or at least it seems that way to me, as a Kragg main) So I think if anything is changed about him it should be something that helps out mostly against more skilled players. I dont think an unparriable move is a good solution though (I dont like it when the rules arent consistent.) His aerial down-b is empty right now, so maybe work it in to there? All that said I certainly dont think he is unplayable against people who are really on their parry game. Its a struggle but It is definitely doable.

 

[ImmortalRoxas]

This game looks amazing so far. Wrastor is very appealing to me, and I hope I can get my hands on the game ASAP.

 

[Big Papi]

I agree with Dan that we should wait it out until the public beta. And see how the parrying dynamic feels at a more higher level as a whole. I actually really do like how it is now, but I also understand all of the concerns people have (esp. Kragg). I believe IF their does come some kind of change later on, that it should definitely be a universal mechanic change rather than a character specific one.

I also agree that it is undesirable to have anything in the game that doesn't take more than a couple hours to master. I love aether for being an easy game to pick up and learn, and that anything more difficult in the game doesn't take too long to get down.

 

[jam1garner]

I agree with Dan that we should wait it out until the public beta. And see how the parrying dynamic feels at a more higher level as a whole. I actually really do like how it is now, but I also understand all of the concerns people have (esp. Kragg). I believe IF their does come some kind of change later on, that it should definitely be a universal mechanic change rather than a character specific one.

I also agree that it is undesirable to have anything in the game that doesn't take more than a couple hours to master. I love aether for being an easy game to pick up and learn, and that anything more difficult in the game doesn't take too long to get down.

I agree, I would rather spend my time learning how to use something, rather than learning how to do it. A good example is wavedashing/wave landing, easy to learn, but more complicated to learn how to use. I also hope that Dan has some ATs that aren't based on smash ATs. Would be nice to have something unique and game changing, while not just a hassle like L-canceling.

 

[RoA_Zam]

I agree, I would rather spend my time learning how to use something, rather than learning how to do it. A good example is wavedashing/wave landing, easy to learn, but more complicated to learn how to use. I also hope that Dan has some ATs that aren't based on smash ATs. Would be nice to have something unique and game changing, while not just a hassle like L-canceling.

If you wanna call it an AT, similar to reverse aerial rushes from brawl, if you do the turn around while going off of a ledge and time it properly, you go off the ledge backwards. It's especially good for orcanes bair or fair back hitbox.

Characters are gaining a lot of new types of cancels soon.

Zetterburn has a Gatling combo (which he used to have before).

Orcane gains momentum during his turnaround animation so if you charge a strong right out of a dash turnaround then you gain hella momentum.

DI, SDI, Teching, Wavedash, Waveland, RAR, walljumps, Airdodges, ledgecancels etc are from smash bros.

I've also talked to him about bringing back something that used to be in the game but was removed when environmental collision boxes were edited: running off a ledge into an immediate wall jump (similar to melee CF dash atk near ledge into a walljump but minus the dash atk).

He's considering moonwalking as a tech.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

Random lurker here.
On the subject of Parries, are there any inherent designed weakness to the mechanic in this game?

 

[RoA_Zam]

Random lurker here.
On the subject of Parries, are there any inherent designed weakness to the mechanic in this game?

The only downside to using them is the cooldown after using them when you're vulnerable. Other than that, there's no other downside to them.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

The only downside to using them is the cooldown after using them when you're vulnerable. Other than that, there's no other downside to them.

Is that after a successful attempt or just mashing it?

 

[RoA_Zam]

Is that after a successful attempt or just mashing it?

Both as far as I know. The opponent goes into a helpless state after a successful parry so the cooldown doesnt really matter if it's there or not on a successful parry.

 

[Tf4 | Lukas]

Querry for Dan! I'll try to reenact it on stream when I get the chance but for now, I'm just gonna ask. When Maypul tethers to an opponent to get the U-air kill at the top of the screen, is she supposed to die?... LOL, hope to hear back and see if this is intentional or not.

 

[Steel Banana]

Querry for Dan! I'll try to reenact it on stream when I get the chance but for now, I'm just gonna ask. When Maypul tethers to an opponent to get the U-air kill at the top of the screen, is she supposed to die?... LOL, hope to hear back and see if this is intentional or not.

She shouldn't die unless the opponent hits her right after she teleports to them. The only way to die off the top of the screen is to be in hitstun while above the blastzone (same as smash).

-Youngblood

 

[theopenlink22]

I think that when you parry a projectile, it should reset the projectile as if it was just shot if you get what I mean. So it should go the same distance as if it were just shot instead of just going away. Also the Forsburn Strong needs to be buffed/changed!
Also, WE NEED MORE SWEETSPOTS!

 

[TotalConnor]

I know this is a little late to ask but what should we expect form RoA at Smash Con?

 

[Tripledip]

I agree with the forsburn up strong discussion. The hotbox needs to be more clear and/or bigger

 

[vonflare]

Just want to say this game looks amazing.

I hope to be a part of it in the future!

 

[Steel Banana]

Hey guys, guess what! New character hype! It's the first unlockable character in RoA, so if you don't want to spoil the surprise, don't click the link

http://www.rivalsofaether.com/blog/?p=489

Have questions about the new character? Ask away! I'll try to answer as much as I can.

-Youngblood

 

[CaptainCrisb]

Hey guys, guess what! New character hype! It's the first unlockable character in RoA, so if you don't want to spoil the surprise, don't click the link

http://www.rivalsofaether.com/blog/?p=489

Have questions about the new character? Ask away! I'll try to answer as much as I can.

-Youngblood

oooo! I like!

 

[Death By Hugs]

Hey guys, guess what! New character hype! It's the first unlockable character in RoA, so if you don't want to spoil the surprise, don't click the link

http://www.rivalsofaether.com/blog/?p=489

Have questions about the new character? Ask away! I'll try to answer as much as I can.

-Youngblood

Spoiler

New character looks so awesome!
2 questions:
1. Does up special function like ness, or is she the physical thunderbolt?
2. Does down special automatically explode cloud while cloud is there, or is it by button press?

 

[Steel Banana]

Spoiler

New character looks so awesome!
2 questions:
1. Does up special function like ness, or is she the physical thunderbolt?
2. Does down special automatically explode cloud while cloud is there, or is it by button press?

Spoiler

1. The Uspecial is almost identical to Pikachu's upB. She turns into a ball of lightning and zips once or twice, depending on player input. Unlike Pikachu's, it can only travel in 8 directions. It even has a way to not go into special fall, a lot like PM's QAC. If Absa starts the last zip from the ground, she doesn't go into special fall. This means to avoid special fall, you can do a single zip from the ground or start the first zip in the air and end up on the ground and then do the second zip.
2. Down special starts a lightning chain around a cloud, if one exists. The chain takes a set time to detonate and destroys the cloud on detonation. Once the chain starts, the cloud no longer functions as a cloud object, meaning Absa can send another cloud out, but cannot detonate the first cloud manually anymore. If there is no cloud when Absa uses Dspecial, the chain starts around Absa and follows her wherever she goes. This version of the move gets canceled if Absa gets hit.