RichBrown's Random Ideas Topic

[DanGR]

I think I'd really like doing this against the characters with zairs. They naturally do really low damage and are those characters' best spacing moves.

Well, if you can pivotgrab them, there's no point in w-nairing. It should only be used if their attack doesn't do a lot of damage and the tradeoff is really good.

But yeah, I think it'd be a great idea to get a list of how much damage the common, hard-to-get-past, spacing moves do to get a good cost/benefit ratio chart or something going.

edit: Fino, lol. That's a really bright suit...

 

[A2ZOMG]

I wonder if you got this idea of the pocket after playing my G&W that likes to hover around spamming N-air. /sarcasm

Wassup dude?

 

[Rust]

Quick question, how the heck do you bounce a Whistle o.o

 

[SuSa]

The same way you b-reverse every other move.

 

[Rust]

'kay

How do I b-reverse every other move?

 

[SuSa]

I'll take the simplest example.

Face Left.
Dash.
Jump Left.
Side-B to the left
Mash the analog stick to the right, very quickly. (VERY)

You just b-reversed.

(basically, mash joystick opposite of momentum (doesn't matter what way you face) after using a special.

 

[Llumys]

I forget the frames, but you shouldn't have much trouble doing it. Instead of hitting down the back, just try QCB.

 

[DarkPikmin]

OH YEAH another AT we need to start using is something called a W-Aerial , Wair, or whistle into aerial
thats what i call it anyways lol
basically, if u are reading tour opponent well enough, what you do is short hop, whistle, nair into upsmash
i did this against Chip's zair one time this last weekend. i should have really experimented with it more in friendlies but it didnt pass my mind.
we can also probably do this well against D3 upb, (meta glide attack?, peach fair?) MARTH FAIR, ( if they space, then w-fair) and many other things

its really good for a set up for a kill. i think it is something that should be looked into =0

I suggested this looooooong ago and no one seemed to care... I've been doing this for a while. Good to bring it up though.
Here's something from the thread.

The whistle to airattack/smash/grab is generally better with one pikmin alone, because if you whistle immediately into an attack, I -believe- they don't respond right away.

I have yet to make myself get over this, and whistle into a pikminless dair multiple times.

I have noticed that sometimes the pikmin don't respond when you whistle then, lets say, Fair right away. I usually wait a split second to do the pikmin attack.

I'm glad the W-air is up for discussion again.
But yes the whistle to nair is so cash...

 

[Dyyne]

OH YEAH another AT we need to start using is something called a W-Aerial , Wair, or whistle into aerial
thats what i call it anyways lol
basically, if u are reading tour opponent well enough, what you do is short hop, whistle, nair into upsmash
i did this against Chip's zair one time this last weekend. i should have really experimented with it more in friendlies but it didnt pass my mind.
we can also probably do this well against D3 upb, (meta glide attack?, peach fair?) MARTH FAIR, ( if they space, then w-fair) and many other things

its really good for a set up for a kill. i think it is something that should be looked into =0

This is known and old...it first became big after Gonta's videos appeared, since he did it really well.

 

[Llumys]

Wair has been known for a long time, but we never actually discussed it.

 

[DarkPikmin]

Begin discussing the Wair now! W-nair works like a charm and I don't see W-uair working for anything else than making you bounce on your butt lol.

 

[Dyyne]

Wair has been known for a long time, but we never actually discussed it.

It was talked about, just there isn't much to discuss...jump, whistle, aerial lol. Pretty self explanatory.

 

[RichBrown]

I started whistle-nairing recently because it's so hard to see, but then I stopped for some reason. I actually stopped whistling to absorb attacks and only to whistle bounce, probably because I've been playing snake a LOT in friendlies (rarely use him in tournament tho) and I've gotten used to FF-airdodging. I wanna get back into some of my old whistle habits though because, well, they ****

Something else to practice the whistle: in friendlies try living as long as you possibly can using the whistle. Don't even worry about attacking or anything else, just try to get yourself to the highest possible % without dying. Every now and then I do this in friendlies just as a little mental exercise. I've even done this in tournament where I almost stop attacking altogether and just do my best to stay alive. There's a noteworthy mental edge gained when your opponent finally does KO you and you are past 170% (I've lived past 200% on numerous occasions in tournament).

 

[Weruop]

THAT DOE EEM LIKE A GOOD LITTLE OCASIONAL EXERCISE :o IVE GOTTA TRY IT OUT SOMETIME

(caps wtf. im not retyping that lol )

also, playing some girls marth today, i whistled her fair and naird to d smash <3 so easy

 

[RichBrown]

Why did Hilt edit ^that^ post hahaha

 

[Weruop]

idk it looks the same to me lol

 

[Llumys]

Playing nub Marths is too fun as Olimar.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Whistle to aerial works great on marths!

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Why did Hilt edit ^that^ post hahaha

He double posted, so I merged the two posts together.

 

[Tin Man]

I'll take the simplest example.

Face Left.
Dash.
Jump Left.
Side-B to the left
Mash the analog stick to the right, very quickly. (VERY)

You just b-reversed.

(basically, mash joystick opposite of momentum (doesn't matter what way you face) after using a special.

B sticking would also help right?

 

[Stitch_Kun]

Yo richbrown its teddy lol

This made me want to just go into training and do random stuff with olimar to see what will happen lol

ill try an contribute once i figure out something to post

 

[Llumys]

Hilt edited Stitch's post!

D:

inb4nazis

 

[DtJ Hilt]

It was a double post lol

It was either that or infract him :x

 

[Tin Man]

-Hilt- is such a nice mod

 

[Llumys]

Yes, he's good at making us believe he's such a nice mod.

 

[RichBrown]

I'm just bumping this to remind everyone that incomplete nair-jab-grab is seriously amazing and that makes me amazing and this is an amazing topic so it deserves to be bumped

 

[Llumys]

Haha, of course. Jab is an amazing setter, and too many people don't realize that smashing isn't the only thing that works out of incomplete nairs.

 

[Fino]

-Hilt- is such a nice mod

Yes, he's good at making us believe he's such a nice mod.

I love hilt

Haha, of course. Jab is an amazing setter, and too many people don't realize that smashing isn't the only thing that works out of incomplete nairs.

Yeah, pivot grabs (if they DI out), jab jab, jab dtilt uair/usmash profit, utilt pivotgrab (at low percents/fatties ... they DI out the majority of the time setting this up), dair, pluck cancelled dash reverse pikmin toss nair (on big characters at low/midlow %)... There are so many things to do.

Don't nair on shields <.< <.<


~Fino

 

[DanGR]

You can just shield the second jab hit. The first hit doesn't have enough hitstun to combo into the second. *shrugs*

 

[Fino]

You can just shield the second jab hit. The first hit doesn't have enough hitstun to combo into the second. *shrugs*

Out of nair, your opponent is in the air.... shield + air = mk status O.o?


~Fino

 

[DanGR]

I dunno if you can shield if you start in the air. I'd imagine you'd be able to just DI straight down and then shield. But w/e. Few people actually know that anyways.

Also, people are eventually going to learn to DI out of the incomplete nair altogether. MK can just dair you before you can shield if he does it right. I can do it consistently against Olimar's nair and upair. It looks like such a pain against all the Olimar players I've fought. haha

/pessimist

 

[Fino]

I dunno if you can shield if you start in the air. I'd imagine you'd be able to just DI straight down and then shield. But w/e. Few people actually know that anyways.

Also, people are eventually going to learn to DI out of the incomplete nair altogether. MK can just dair you before you can shield if he does it right. I can do it consistently against Olimar's nair and upair. It looks like such a pain against all the Olimar players I've fought. haha

/pessimist

Never has happened to me... then again I've only play scrub metaknights like domo, dojo, affinity, judge, ect...


~Fino

 

[DanGR]

Well then, they need to learn to fight Oli better.

 

[RichBrown]

Since the incomplete nair puts your opponent in the air, you can jab-jab and land it the majority of the time.

I'm bummed that everyone learned out to get out of incomplete nair-Usmash, it's not the magical combo it used to be. But now I've gotten to the point where I just watch their DI, and I do whatever move I think has the best chance to land. If they DI down then I'll grab, if they DI up I'll jab, and if they don't DI good enough and they are at KO % then I Usmash.

Fino those ideas are **** (and extremely colorful) imma have to try that stuff. Can you really jabjab-dtilt someone out of incomplete nair? Cuz that'd be amazing. I like the Utilt-grab idea, sometimes I will Utilt if I don't feel I'm in the best position to grab and I think they are gonna shield and I wanna poke their shield.

OH and if they keep DIing down and they shield the jab jab, just grab in the future and it gets them scared.

Also I was doing this **** combo yesterday over and over again but I can't remember what it was, I couldn't even remember what it was while I was doing it, all I know is that I was doing it and I would get a lot of % on my opponent. Thats what playing on autopilot does sometimes lol. I'll try to figure that out.

 

[Fino]

Fino those ideas are **** (and extremely colorful) imma have to try that stuff. Can you really jabjab-dtilt someone out of incomplete nair? Cuz that'd be amazing. I like the Utilt-grab idea, sometimes I will Utilt if I don't feel I'm in the best position to grab and I think they are gonna shield and I wanna poke their shield.

OH and if they keep DIing down and they shield the jab jab, just grab in the future and it gets them scared.

Also I was doing this **** combo yesterday over and over again but I can't remember what it was, I couldn't even remember what it was while I was doing it, all I know is that I was doing it and I would get a lot of % on my opponent. Thats what playing on autopilot does sometimes lol. I'll try to figure that out.

You can jab one time to dtilt, and since they're in the air, they can't powershield... and it's very hard to get out of. I know the second jab does more damage, but the dtilt is a better combo follow-up/starter.

My personal favorite is the pluck cancel dash - reverse pikmin toss - nair.... it's very fast... but only seems to work on characters such as rob bowser ect... it's such a frame trap my goodness. I'll break it down
When you opponent is being nair'd... they're thinking that a c-stick us going to follow it, so they try to DI away, when it doesn't come out and they see you retreating, they feel safe to land, at the point when they start to go down, a pikmin is being sent at them. They will focus at the pikmin, and not at you, so when you follow your pikmin toss with a nair, they will either dodge the pikmin and get nair'd, or both will land (if you're lucky / stupid opponent). Rinse repeat. pikmin toss to nair is always a good trap, it seems to work a lot... even on people I regularly play, and I think a pluck cancel dash is a good set-up for it ^^;
EDIT: I should add if you land the pikmin and you hit them with a nair, you're golden... they're focus *should* be getting off that pikmin, since it IS doing latch damage during the nair. Some opponents will use an attack to get the pikmin off before you nair.... unless the move is like supa long, you still have a solid set-up for another nair =D


~Fino

 

[RichBrown]

Fino that's brilliant, seriously. Lemme make sure I got it: after the incomplete nair, you dash away, pluck cancel to stop your momentum, then SH pikmin toss to a nair? And all the mindgames involved make it so it lands? Am I getting that right?

 

[Llumys]

That's interesting.

Does the jab to dair work on most characters at low percentages?

 

[Fino]

Fino that's brilliant, seriously. Lemme make sure I got it: after the incomplete nair, you dash away, pluck cancel to stop your momentum, then SH pikmin toss to a nair? And all the mindgames involved make it so it lands? Am I getting that right?

Close, you pluck after the incomplete nair.

Nair - land - pluck - dash - jump (towards opponent) - side B (towards opponent) and you use the momentum form that to follow with a nair.

From a frame data standpoint, the pluck cancel makes it slower (by a few frames... not much), from game mechanics and treating it as a mindgame, the pluck cancel helps with timing and for some peculiar reason it works a lot more. Dunno why. Perhaps the fact that you can buffer the pluck from the nair, and buffer the dash from the pluck... I guess it just pulls it together better.


~Fino

 

[DanGR]

Well, you can buffer anything through anything besides nothing at all... if that makes any sense, so the pluck shouldn't help with buffering the dash.

 

[Zori]

random fact, nair beats pk thunder the ball version