"Revival of DGames" Mafia

[#HBC | Laundry]

EBWOP: But he's likely cleared so eh whatcanwedo

 

[Kantrip]

The thing is Rake was defending Ryu Day 1 and suddenly wanted him super dead for such awful reasons that I can't see him actually believing them.

I think the role thing was an opportunity to flip his Ryu read and he just overstepped himself doing it

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

@#HBC | J and @#HBC | Dancer

HOLY **** CONDENSE THAT **** LIKE CAMPBELLS FOR THE SAKE OF US ALL

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

The thing is Rake was defending Ryu Day 1 and suddenly wanted him super dead for such awful reasons that I can't see him actually believing them.

I think the role thing was an opportunity to flip his Ryu read and he just overstepped himself doing it

Bull****.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

With Ryu and Rake, I didn't like Ryu's play, and Rake's entry to D2 is a possibility, but right now tackling that angle isn't gonna do us any good, for that to work we have to believe either one of them in their statements about the phone after what we already know, and that's a gamble, there's reasons why either of them would lie as any alignment, its gonna be WIFOM until more info about the phone gets revealed to us.

What do you make of J's giant post?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Can you elaborate more on what you were going on with this?

I was trying to catch Ruy in a lie without understanding the intended mechanics of Rosie's role and its interaction with Ruy's.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Yeah, I had the right idea, but the silly natute of needing an exact guess kept me from getting it.

I really wish J didn't end up with it. Like REALLY wish he didn't.

Lynch him for it then. :^)

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

People seem to like me because I'm a town read lean (in most people's eyes).

Because of something early game. Most people have put you on the shelf and forgotten about you as they see no reason to worry about you.

I formulate my opinion in a situation

Entirely out of things other people have said.

if you find fault in my reasoning

spoilers: i do

I've been questioned a lot during this game, so I'm not being given a "free pass".

sure sure

My reads should be treated just like anyone else's.

They are; they're garbage.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

@ Kantrip Don't like that post and dip, I still want that layout post on why Rake is scum.

 

[Fandangox]

Pretty much this post. Maybe people didn't read the summery that I made (because it's really long),

No I read it, but its mostly pointless because just a huge wall of you retelling what happened in the game with basically no opinions or insight from you, like a bored narrator.

You have had almost no push against anyone you find scummy, and when you do its either extremely weak, pushing for a dumb reason, or just restating what everyone else said.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

No I read it, but its mostly pointless because just a huge wall of you retelling what happened in the game with basically no opinions or insight from you, like a bored narrator.

You have had almost no push against anyone you find scummy, and when you do its either extremely weak, pushing for a dumb reason, or just restating what everyone else said.

Yeh go tell me what you think about J's most recent post instead of talking about Spak.

 

[Fandangox]

EBWOP: But he's likely cleared so eh whatcanwedo

Maybe, but I don't like that he claimed to have targeted Gheb N1, its absolutely the safest claim he could have made with that role, no one can counter claim him on getting roleblocked, and even if its very unlikely that he got redirected, there's no way to prove he is lying about that.

That said, I found his D2 better, and I doubt someone with the ability to safe people from night kills would be scum. So who knows.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Maybe, but I don't like that he claimed to have targeted Gheb N1, its absolutely the safest claim he could have made with that role, no one can counter claim him on getting roleblocked, and even if its very unlikely that he got redirected, there's no way to prove he is lying about that.

That said, I found his D2 better, and I doubt someone with the ability to safe people from night kills would be scum. So who knows.

That's something we can worry about tomorrow.

 

[Fandangox]

What do you make of J's giant post?

Its actually well constructed, and his WATT/Dancer connection seems like an interesting venue to consider, but I am more interested in what says back to what WATT and Dancer said about it.

Don't like what he said about Maven there though, doesn't really explain why he voted him D1 and and voiced dislike for him D2. Also I want him to answer my question.

 

[Fandangox]

That's something we can worry about tomorrow.

Yeah, just putting it out there.

 

[Spak]

spoilers: i do

In that case, please do tell. What fault is there in my reasoning for Rake scum?

 

[Fandangox]

I was trying to catch Ruy in a lie without understanding the intended mechanics of Rosie's role and its interaction with Ruy's.

Doesn't this depend on Ryu actually telling the truth about the one-shot track ability though?

 

[Spak]

No I read it, but its mostly pointless because just a huge wall of you retelling what happened in the game with basically no opinions or insight from you, like a bored narrator.

My analysis was at the end. Would you have perferred that I would have mixed it in with the summery?

 

[Spak]

*preferred

 

[Fandangox]

My analysis was at the end. Would you have perferred that I would have mixed it in with the summery?

No, I read it, I am saying that either way your huge summary was pointless. Why did you write so much about what happened with absolutely no input from yourself? Your analysis at the end was just a brief explanation of why you disliked Rake (which is basically what we all have already said about him D2) and you even said you liked his D1 one of your analysis.

 

[Fandangox]

Yeh go tell me what you think about J's most recent post instead of talking about Spak.

I already replied about it.

 

[Fandangox]

Bull****.

Well Kantrip is right about that though, Rake was defending Ryu D1 (he acknowledged this on his posts ToDay) when he called out my read list D1.

I mean from Rake's perspective do you really think the conversation getting cut off is a reason to suddenly go for Ryu like that?

Even then its mostly pointless like I have already said, we simply don't have enough info about what the **** happened to make judgement calls about it, so it falls back on whose play is scummy and not.

Today I'd lynch: J, Spak, Ryu.

Would consider Rake, but I am still really not convinced based on his D1 play.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Man dietz we need to talk
I like rakes d2. I like where laundry is going about spak. Undecided about J, but thinking swords is scum is pretty meh. Kantrips solid. Rykers pretty clear like laundry said and I'm not gonna worry about him unless we're running out of avenues late game

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Oh, amd ryu can still burn

 

[Maven89]

Vote: J

@ #HBC | Laundry
@#HBC | Ryker
@Rake ~Desu
@ Spak
@#HBC | Dancer
@ Fandangox

J, when you attacked Maven yesterday did you actually read the thread? There's was a lot about your case that was just factually wrong. If you go back and read Maven's responses to your attack you'll see. Can you respond to that please (along with the actual particulars of our accusations towards you outside of "I'm not scummy for lack of content.").

Sure, I can adresse those when I come to them in my re-read. However, I would like to talk more with you Dancer. Particularly where your head is at. When I was posting, I had skim-read, but I was confident on what I was saying. I'll relook at my evidence, but something about Maven still just did not read as coming from a town-intent when he was looking at me on cursory glance.

Regardless, most of your dislike surrounding me is probably substantiated in that post you keep referencing so I will respond to Maven. It also probably has a great deal to do with the fact that I am not completely 100% read.

Yet none of this has happened and my questions to him are flatly ignored

You had me as your #1 scum pick up to your V/LA on day 2, and then come back and say you actually just "failed" to mention you thought I was really an independent, and then move on to WoTT/Dancer, WoTT who at the end of day 1 you claimed was just an "early bandwagon" and you didn't like his lynch, and Dancer who even on Day 2 you claimed you were getting good vibes from.

For scum-reads, I really want to sink my teeth into Maven more than likely after what was happening near the end of the day phase. My opinion on Laundry was null currently *re-read priority* and for Dancer I do recall him being overly mechanical in the past but I would like to see him post toDay because I feel I didn't get enough meat out of him. So far, I do have good vibes from him so not a current threat/scum-read.

Where did this thought process go?

I hate the way he flatly refused to discuss his push on me, especially after he deflected questions about it by insisting he'd answer it later, then when he comes in with his re-read his read suddenly vanished (going from #1 scum to "possible independent not a priority" is a completely different read), he didn't answer any of the questions about me that he said he would, and then he just ignored my question the same way he's ignored my questions to him since shortly after he voted me day 1.

And I don't see a town reason to completely ignore my slot's questions to him (after saying he'd talk to me about it) or refuse to answer about his Day 1 push on me.

Vote J

 

[Maven89]

The nametags were people whose opinions I want on what I said, it wasn't meant as a call to arms, though my "vote J" comment at the bottom was

 

[Kantrip]

Was on the bus to work. Can post on break

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Its actually well constructed, and his WATT/Dancer connection seems like an interesting venue to consider, but I am more interested in what says back to what WATT and Dancer said about it.

Don't like what he said about Maven there though, doesn't really explain why he voted him D1 and and voiced dislike for him D2. Also I want him to answer my question.

So how does this influence your read on him?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Yeah, just putting it out there.

So am I.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

In that case, please do tell. What fault is there in my reasoning for Rake scum?

Simple: it's just a rehash of everything others have said. I don't hear your voice in it, I hear Kantrip's, Ryker's, and Wot's.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Doesn't this depend on Ryu actually telling the truth about the one-shot track ability though?

Nah, that was irrelevant of it. I was simply looking for a point that could be a lie and Ruy being able to use the phone all along was something I didn't consider until just then. Him knowing Rosie's alignment and skirting away from that lynch would've been reasonable enough proof that it was a plausible idea. The fact he didn't shot down the angle completely.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Well Kantrip is right about that though, Rake was defending Ryu D1 (he acknowledged this on his posts ToDay) when he called out my read list D1.

I mean from Rake's perspective do you really think the conversation getting cut off is a reason to suddenly go for Ryu like that?

Even then its mostly pointless like I have already said, we simply don't have enough info about what the **** happened to make judgement calls about it, so it falls back on whose play is scummy and not.

Today I'd lynch: J, Spak, Ryu.

Would consider Rake, but I am still really not convinced based on his D1 play.

No **** he's right that Rake went from defending Ruy to attacking him. Everyone who read D1 knew that happened. At that point, you have to question why the 180 occurred. Getting messages from a player who said he could only receive them, only to lose connection as soon as you get responses, what doesn't seem shady about that? It's a very easy thought process to follow so I don't get why this is still being spun as scummy and that's why I'm continuing to dig at it. Nobody's provided sufficient reasoning to change my mind on this.

Why do you still want Ruy?

 

[Fandangox]

So how does this influence your read on him?

It doesn't change it much, still don't see the scum hunting intent, the big wall was well constructed and has an interesting perspective on Dancer/Watt, but he has yet to answer my question about his read on WATT if Dancer were to be town, I was also not convinced what he said about Maven considering his stance on him D1 and D2. Overall its a big post with a lot in it, but I am not convinced, what's he planning to do with that now? I am more interested to see how he responds to my, Dancer, and Maven's questions.

I mean a lot of his connection relies on the timing on Dancer and WATT's posts and the fact that Dancer has no opinion on WATT. That's all fine and well, but without flips its a lot better to just focus on the play themselves, not to mention bringing the possibility of Maven being an indy doesn't add up with how he saw him D1, why didn't J said anything about it D1 when Voting maven, or D2 when he voiced dislike for Maven?

That said though, @#HBC | Dancer What's your read on WATT right now?

 

[Spak]

No, I read it, I am saying that either way your huge summary was pointless. Why did you write so much about what happened with absolutely no input from yourself? Your analysis at the end was just a brief explanation of why you disliked Rake (which is basically what we all have already said about him D2) and you even said you liked his D1 one of your analysis.

Very well, I will go back to my summery of 20-23 and add my input. The summery was initially supposed to be an impartial re-read (mostly for my own benefit of being forced to not skip anything), but if input was was expected, I'll add input.

Spoiler

Rake Pressures Ryu right out of the gate, says that he won't explain why he's pushing Ryu until Ryu talks about "it" (the ambiguity is real). Wots says Ryker was redirected and never questioned if he was lying about targeting Gheb, which shouldn't just be assumed because anyone could say the same thing. Ryker then asked if anyone was roleblocked last night, which got no response (obviously). Rake takes Ryker's question of if Ryu messaged anyone (in which Ryker votes for Maven, and that happened after he was accused of redirecting attention) and says that's the reason he's voting Ryu (which is a REALLY flimsy argument to lynch someone). (Most scummy intent thus far: Rake for the badly explained, uncalled for pressure on Ryu)

The which restriction exchange was unimportant, so I'll skip that. (Although it is fair to note that Rake backed off fairly easily when someone noted what he was trying to do)

Wots said that the jailer was the only roleblocking entity, J points out that it's a logical fallacy, then Rake points out Ryu's post that says "I can get messages sometimes" and calls for everyone to vote Ryu for that (Yet again, the same flimsy reason that he gave in paragraph 1, but now he's now calling everyone else to lynch Ryu). Wots says that the one roleblock role was a silly assumption to make, and I state that there could be more than one jailer, which is then said to be unlikely by Wots (although Ryu seemed to have Rosa as a sister role, so maybe there are more twin roles?). Rake then asks J who's scum, and I find the Berserker role (I was proud of myself for that, but my attempt to help the town in this instance may have come off as the "Look, I'm helping!" thing that everyone keeps accusing me of). Ryker emphasizes J's logical fallacy point, and then Ryker (to the rescue) sees that Rake has not elaborated anything significant on the Ryu vote whatsoever. Rake then states that his Ryu vote is because he said he only got messages (which is a still an insignificant difference that he's listed three times in a row). (Scummy intent: Rake)

Rake reads seem pretty safe (but then again, so are mine), then asks why someone would want reads from him (red lights going off, I've never seen anyone ask that before). Ryker is still re-reading, provides info on how he thinks I am being too defensive but am new (to be honest if people didn't use that excuse so much I'd either have a better grasp on the game or be dead), and how Rake is null. He also provides us with a wonderful picture. Ryker asks if Rake thinks that the distinction between messages and calls is worth a lynch (I think this is where Ryker starts to catch on to Rake's scumminess), then says that he likes Fanny. Wots says we need a full claim (of what?) and votes Ryu. In his re-read, Ryker points out that Rake's push on Wots was very weak. J says he wants to dig his teeth into Maven more, has to re-read Laundry, and calls Dancer mechanical.

Ryker responds to Laundry's question if he's town (why would Ryker say he isn't?) and I post a vote order on Rosa for the previous day (so that we could question all the voters). J explains why my questioning of everyone's motives behind the Rosa swing is ineffective (much appreciated so that we don't waste time with a bunch of hogwash PC answers), then Dancer and J talk a bit about his "mechanical" behavior (which I still don't see), before Ryker responds with his J and Dancer reads and I respond to the question of J. Wots' questions why I thought Maven would have more to gain from not killing Gheb than killing him, and I respond that it's not much more than a gut feeling (which I still stand by). J pushes me farther to figure out where my head's at (which I think was a Town action, simply because I hadn't been the center of attention recently and may have just been flying under the radar), and asks about my opinion on the Wots, Maven, and Ryu slot.

Dancer has an elaborate speech on his reads (which I enjoyed reading very much and I agreed with most of at the time, but I'm starting to like Ryu more and Wots a little less (more on that later). Other than his D1 unneeded pressure, he seems to be acting upon mostly town intentions), and states that he wants J to talk to him about the Maven scum lean (which correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see an answer to, and dodging questions is scummy). Ryu explains last night that he could call and see who picked up, and Rake was on the other side (sounds legit so far). He asks Rake to explain his vote on him (a good question that Rake wasn't here for, but was already answered in an unsatisfactory manner three times previously). Ryker then says he's on the bottom of page 7 and that Ryu is garbage based on asking null questions, and how he really doesn't like Rake's voting D2 and although it's fair (no), it was too premature of a claim (yes). Dancer points out that J hadn't re-read D1 before the Maven pressure (a possible excuse to get out of the odd Maven pressure he's putting on, but a re-read would get his priorities straight either way). Ryu said he only received the info about calls in the night phase. J talks about Ryu trying to be buddy-buddy and states that as a reason for disliking Ryu.

Dancer support's Wots' read on Ryu and says that's the same way he feels (I disagree with both analyses on RR). J accuses Dancer of town leaning the people who agree with him (which would seem scummy if the people who agreed with him didn't look like they were town, but they do). Ryu re-clarified that he wasn't told about calling until the night phase (which voids Rake's only argument). Ryu asked why we don't have town leans hammer and J responds with how it was a quick wagon-snap. Ryker begins to feel uncomfortable with the Ryu vote and unvotes (I'm really liking Ryker so far D2). J says he "hasn't had much a problem with Rake this game" and Ryu is in the "'will lynch' pile", then says Rake is a town lean (based upon not having much of a problem with him, which is reason for a null and not a town lean) and Ryu is a scummy lean. Wots asks for clarification of why Ryker is uncomfortable with the Ryu vote, and Ryker says he's a disgusting punching bag (abbreviated that poorly lol), then asks for reads. Ryu gives reads, Wots is as "place holder" vote with absolutely no elaboration (seem suspicious). Ryker says the Ryu lynch is a freebie. Ryu points out Rake shouldn't get a free town pass for doing nothing and asks for elaboration from J (YES!).

Dancer talks about how he thinks Mav (who hadn't yet posted in D2) and Fan are town reads, then asks why J asks and asks J to answer his question. I talked to J about my reads on Ryu at his request (which I stated as "I wouldn't join the wagon without being convinced that something isn't wrong" in respect to Ryu, which was the popular vote at the time). J asks for places where Dancer started town-reading Maven and why he likes Fanny's play. J asks about mine and Ryker's slot reads, and Dancer replies with a slight town read on both. J then goes on to talk about how Dancer has "too easy" town reads (seems to be a harsh amount of pressure for having townie play all game long). Ryker talks about his reads as of page 8. J is playing with the idea of Dancer scum and Ryker protests. J defends my slot being town and says that "other fish look tastier to fry". Ryker likes Laundry's catch-up D1 and calls J's #351 "completely unrelated to the game at hand". He then votes Maven for being opportunistic D1 (why he would vote when he's 15 pages behind is beyond me).

J is talking about how both of his games are exploding (johns) and Dancer takes the push against him happily (which a scum would likely not (unless they're 2 gud 4 me, which I wouldn't put past Dancer), still, town read Dancer). Ryker talks about Maven and Ryker doesn't want to lynch me anymore (based upon J's talk). Ryker says that a Rake scum is more likely to be the experienced player (which I agree with). Laundry questions Ryu some more. I'm not alone in my want to question Gheb before the NK (so did Laundry, so that's reassuring). J asks for updated reads on Maven, Ryu, Rake, and Wots from Laundry (seriously, why?). Rake questions Laundry's questions (I think this may have been wrong in my original summary because I don't see Rake anywhere on page 23). Laundry explains why he targeted Ryker with the orb (which I think is good reasoning).

Confirmed, Ryker has junk in his inventory (what kind of junk, the world may never know). Laundry justifies his team read early-game because of lack of info from everyone (I think it was intended to put pressure on them, but there was no reasoning because it was still early game). Wots doesn't seem to like Ryu's vote (or Ryu for that matter). Laundry responds to the question posed to Dancer from J. J theorizes based on the apparent Wots/Ryu rivalry (which isn't hugely evident, as it just seems to be Wots not liking Ryu, not as much the other way around. It doesn't seem like a fakes scumteam thing, though). Laundry thinks that the J analysis of Ryu and Rake is accurate (which, again, I don't) and calls Dancer's play "garage" (with the typo included). Wots said he can't accept Ryu as town (which will probably come back to bite him in the event that Ryu flips town). Dancer elaborates on his reads, then Laundry thinks that Ryu is REALLY scummy, then states he doesn't care for Maven.

Do you like this better?

 

[Spak]

Simple: it's just a rehash of everything others have said. I don't hear your voice in it, I hear Kantrip's, Ryker's, and Wot's.

Fair enough. Do you hear my voice in the new summery?

 

[Fandangox]

No **** he's right that Rake went from defending Ruy to attacking him. Everyone who read D1 knew that happened. At that point, you have to question why the 180 occurred. Getting messages from a player who said he could only receive them, only to lose connection as soon as you get responses, what doesn't seem shady about that? It's a very easy thought process to follow so I don't get why this is still being spun as scummy and that's why I'm continuing to dig at it. Nobody's provided sufficient reasoning to change my mind on this.

Why do you still want Ruy?

But that's the point I am saying, we know something went down there, we just don't know what. One of them (or likely, both) is lying, I find it likely Ryu is lying, since he claimed D1 at a moment he didn't really need to (he was not even at L-2 if I recall) so he could have easily been setting up for something D2.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

..still don't see the scum hunting intent...

what

He spent multiple paragraphs laying out why he thought Sworddancer was scummy. Are you expecting him to play exactly like you?

what's he planning to do with that now?

exchange walls with dancer it seems

I am more interested to see how he responds to my, Dancer, and Maven's questions.

Admittedly, so am I.

Overall, that's a fair summary, but given that he's your top suspect I was quite surprised when you had zero response to him.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Fair enough. Do you hear my voice in the new summery?

I guess but I hate the approach so, personally, I don't give a ****.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

But that's the point I am saying, we know something went down there, we just don't know what. One of them (or likely, both) is lying, I find it likely Ryu is lying, since he claimed D1 at a moment he didn't really need to (he was not even at L-2 if I recall) so he could have easily been setting up for something D2.

So it's not possible that they are both telling the truth and a third party hand didn't influence it whatsoever?

 

[Fandangox]

So it's not possible that they are both telling the truth and a third party hand didn't influence it whatsoever?

A thief is very plausible, I just still Ryu is lying. Hell maybe they are both lying and there's STILL a thief, we just don't know.