Rematch - A hypothetical remake discussion.

[Surri-Sama]

All you have to do for pikachu is tone down his recovery imo.

Maybe reduce some hit boxes (but then again everyone needs this)

 

[ryuu seika]

I know but I'd just love to nerf him into oblivion. I really don't like pokemon (Mewtwo was a good smash character though). I was horrified when Samus freed Pikachu in SSE. You don't let loose that sort of evil on the world and you certaily don't give him a gun (2 levels later).

Anyway, this page's list:

Characters:
Bowser
Mewtwo
King Dedede (not sure if he'd work or not)
Pit (maybe but with a different Up B please)
Peach
Meowth (seems crazy but could work)
Megaman
Metaknight (stop whining about him people, they nerfed Kirby in the later games and they could easyly do the same to MK)
Marth

Stages:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville (don't see any reason why not)
Onett
Big Blue
Realm of Nothingness*
Forest Temple
Gravityman's Domain
Yoshi's Story melee (eww.)
Pokemon Stadium 1 (seems fitting)
Fountain of Dreams (a bit bland)

Other Additions:
Ness recovery upgrade
Birthday hats for all on original release dates (region variable)
Name tags
Tap jump and Cjump equalised
Tap jumps optional
Ariel tether grabs (may be workable)
Tether grabs only at certain distance
Various hitbox fixes including a Kirby Utilt nerf
Pikachu recovery nerf
And why not nerf the rest of him just for lols?

* Please give opinions on these stages. Were they just one person talking rubbish or might they actually work?

 

[Surri-Sama]

I loved pokemon in my child years.

Pikachu is still kick ***...and celebi haha (goo Serebii -X-!)

but yeah, id love to nerf DK so he has NO THROW ...id be happy lol

 

[ryuu seika]

It's partly that that makes me hate it so much now.

Any other fixes or suggestions?

 

[dandan]

i think djcs make it really easy for yoshi to move around and handle, it just might be tough to pick them up.

 

[The Star King]

There really wouldn't be a way to make yoshi easier to pick up. Now, if we did something like...making him able to jump out of shield, I think that could be a souped up yoshi. I still think he'd be just as difficult to play with though. Noobs would have an easier time playing with him against others at a high level though, since he wouldn't be reduced to just rolling back and forth when getting pressured.

Yoshi can jump out of his shield, unlike in the later Smash games (why would you nerf him, SKRAAAAAI).

@NixxxoN I like the fact that Yoshi's unique, and that you get rewarded for putting time into him.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

having a good yoshi means that you control the timing between your moves, imo yoshi is good as it is...
if someone does not know how to play it, it doesn't mean it has to be modified.

 

[NixxxoN]

well i thought it was good to balance the chars in some stuff... while some chars are hella easy to handle, yoshi is much more difficult

 

[ryuu seika]

On the subject of nerfing Pikachu, would it be better to weaken his existing recovery move or swap it out entirely for "Surf" (squirtle style)?

 

[Surri-Sama]

I think either cutting the distance of his UpB in half (so that you have 2, shorter movements) or simply get rid of one of the extensions all together (leaving you with the more distance but less options)

The first one still gives pikachu some flexibility within his recovery, while shortening it so it isn't so ridicules.

The second one makes pikachus UpB simlar to foxs where he would just recover in any linear direction.

 

[ryuu seika]

The first one sounds better but I also think "Surf" would be good, seeing as it's well known for being the hardest move to get for Pikachu (I'm not sure it actually is) and is really very memorable due to it looking out of place on an electric type.

 

[Surri-Sama]

yeah pikachu with surf is just a breeding trick from silver and gold

at least thats the first time i heard of it.

It is not a part of pikachus normal arsenal though which makes me question it.

side note : I thought you would have preferred #2 simply because less options usually = worse recovery

 

[ryuu seika]

In one of the first gen games Pikachu could learn it via some convoluted trick involving Geovani and possibly the first of the pokemon stadium games. I don't know the details but it was part of his canonical abilities at one point.

I thought you would have preferred #2 simply because less options usually = worse recovery

Yeah, had I been thinking that way I might have done but there should still be some uniqueness in the move which two wants to remove.

EDIT: This isn't the method I knew and it's in a later game but: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_get_a_surfing_pikachu

It also featured in the TCG: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Surfing_Pikachu_(Wizards_Promo_28)

EDIT 2: Found it: http://uk.faqs.ign.com/articles/588/588815p1.html

As you can see, it's a really difficult move to get but a recuring feature and was even possible in the same year that SSB was first released.

 

[ballin4life]

I think either cutting the distance of his UpB in half (so that you have 2, shorter movements) or simply get rid of one of the extensions all together (leaving you with the more distance but less options)

The first one still gives pikachu some flexibility within his recovery, while shortening it so it isn't so ridicules.

The second one makes pikachus UpB simlar to foxs where he would just recover in any linear direction.

I think this is too drastic of a change to Pikachu.

I'd go for adding a ton of landing lag (like ness has) and reducing the invincibility.

 

[Surri-Sama]

considering almost all other aspects of pikachu are great (imo) making him a light char thats easier to kill seems completely fair to me. (right now he is a light char thats not easy to kill on the horizontal edges of the stage...imo)

This would LIMIT (not remove) his ability to literally chase people to death (follow them off the edge while troll facing Nair)

Plus it reduces his obviously "best in the game" recovery

The first option i think would be the best because it doesn't kill the aspect of the UpB, and still allows him to be versatile while recovering

 

[asianaussie]

getting surfing pikachu was just beating pokemon stadium 1 completely with 6 pokemon from yellow version, not *that* hard, just time consuming and a little luck-based

nowadays legit surfing pikachus are easily gettable via an event or wi-fi

 

[Surri-Sama]

Wasn't there a way to breed pikachu into having surf as well?

I maybe mistaken but this is set into my head for some reason :o

 

[ballin4life]

considering almost all other aspects of pikachu are great (imo) making him a light char thats easier to kill seems completely fair to me. (right now he is a light char thats not easy to kill on the horizontal edges of the stage...imo)

This would LIMIT (not remove) his ability to literally chase people to death (follow them off the edge while troll facing Nair)

Plus it reduces his obviously "best in the game" recovery

The first option i think would be the best because it doesn't kill the aspect of the UpB, and still allows him to be versatile while recovering

These would be helpful in balancing, but I just think that they would be too big of a change to the character.

One of the other ways I'd nerf pikachu and kirby is by giving them increased hit stun, allowing other characters to combo them more easily.

 

[asianaussie]

Reduce some of pika/kirby's hitboxes and increase the ending lag on some of kirby's moves (u-tilt). Reduce Pika's recovery distance.

Wasn't there a way to breed pikachu into having surf as well?

I maybe mistaken but this is set into my head for some reason :o

pretty sure surf is completely non-breedable

might be thinking about volt tackle there

 

[Surri-Sama]

maybe, im playing old silver and gold too btw.

dunno why i am thinking surf on pikachu lol

 

[The Star King]

I thought Pika with Surf has always been a Nintendo event.

As well as the recent Pikachu with fly lol >_>

 

[Sempiternity]

I was the coolest kid on the block when I gamesharked my Snorlax to know fly.

 

[ryuu seika]

IIRC my snorlax got fly off his random move ability. Maybe that was Mr. Mime though...

So, surf or nerf?

 

[asianaussie]

nerf

why the hell is surfing pikachu even relevant?

 

[The Star King]

Because they were considering using Surf as Pika's recovery, like Squirtle in Brawl.

Lol

 

[Battlecow]

I say nerf. Maybe add 30 frames or something where the Nightcrawler is vulnerable, after the first *BAMF* but before the second? Sounds like fun to me- it would definitely make gimping easier.

 

[ryuu seika]

So slightly less distance and a midway pause for gimping? Seems like a good way to do it. I still like the idea of surf myself but that would be changing the game rather than just balancing it and I'm pretty sure we've all agreed that that's a bad idea.

So we now have:

Characters:
Bowser
Mewtwo
Megaman
Peach
Metaknight (fixed of course)
King Dedede (not sure if he'd work or not)
Pit (maybe but with a different Up B please)
Meowth (seems crazy but could work)
Marth

Stages:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Onett
Pokemon Stadium 1
Fountain of Dreams
Big Blue
Forest Temple
Gravityman's Domain
Yoshi's Story melee
Realm of Nothingness*

Other Additions:
Fix platform edges on FD/BF
Ness recovery upgrade
Birthday hats for all on original release dates (region variable)
Name tags
Various hitbox fixes including a Kirby Utilt nerf
Pikachu recovery nerf (shorter and with pause in middle)
Ariel tether grabs (may be workable)
Tether grabs only at certain distance
Tap jump and Cjump equalised
Tap jumps optional

* Please give opinions on these stages. Were they just one person talking rubbish or might they actually work?

Note: Greens are good, yellows are maybes for various reasons and reds are bad ideas (none there right now). The blue is suposed to be a mysterious purple for the stage I don't know.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I dont think any stage would be a bad addition really.

I just think we really need more balanced stages for the competitive side

Battle Field, FD, Smashville all help this i feel

 

[ryuu seika]

Nobody would say no to FD and BF. PS1 seems reasonably neutral, is iconic and makes sense if we're adding Mewtwo (or even if we're not really, 2 pokemon should mean 2 stages). Smashville I'm not quite as convinced on but as everyone says, there's no real reason not to add it and it is a good neutral. Onett and Big Blue are just so that CF and Ness have their own stages.

 

[Battlecow]

FD and BF need ledges to be really good neutrals. Ledges ledges ledges. The importance of ledges cannot be overestimated.

 

[ryuu seika]

You mean grabable ones? Sure, that's a minor change woth making. *adds to list*

 

[Battlecow]

I mean ones that you can DI off of and not die on and stuff. The ledges currently extant are grabbable, but as I've pointed out in earlier posts, they're what're called Ledges of Death, and they **** up some characters' recovery big time and totally eliminate ledge DI from the game. It's a bigger deal than you might think.

 

[ryuu seika]

Not a clue what that means but it still sounds like it needs fixing.

 

[Sempiternity]

Ledge of Death. See Kongo Jungle.

The ledges aren't solid, and can only be grabbed, so you'll pass right through them if you don't aim directly for the ledge. Ledge DI bounces you off the solid part of an edge, and if that doesn't exist, ledge DI doesn't exist.

 

[ryuu seika]

You can go through BF and FD? That's not right!
Definitely needs fixing.

 

[ryuu seika]

So we now have:

Characters:
Bowser
Mewtwo
Megaman
Peach
Metaknight (fixed of course)
King Dedede (not sure if he'd work or not)
Pit (maybe but with a different Up B please)
Meowth (seems crazy but could work)
Marth
Banjo&Kazooie

Stages:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Onett
Pokemon Stadium 1
Fountain of Dreams
Big Blue
Forest Temple
Gravityman's Domain
Yoshi's Story melee
Realm of Nothingness*

Other Additions:
Fix combo meter
More training mode AI options
Fix platform edges on FD/BF
Ness recovery upgrade
Birthday hats for all on original release dates (region variable)
Name tags
Various hitbox fixes including a Kirby Utilt nerf
Pikachu recovery nerf (shorter and with pause in middle)
Ariel tether grabs (may be workable)
Tether grabs only at certain distance
Tap jump and Cjump equalised
Tap jumps optional

* Please give opinions on these stages. Were they just one person talking rubbish or might they actually work?

Is there anything else? We seem to be mostly done with fixes, though I can't say for certain.

 

[NixxxoN]

Ledge of Death. See Kongo Jungle.

kongo jungle gives more recovery options for most chars actually so...

 

[The Star King]

If it has been mentioned yet - fixing the training mode combo meter so that it doesn't reset from grabs/bouncing off walls/tornado.

 

[Battlecow]

Even if it hasn't been mentioned yet, I'd still put that in

 

[BEES]

Guh... I was hoping to troll the thread by suggesting Sonic the Hedgehog.

Unfortunately Sonic Advance came out 1 month later for the GBA than the Gamecube's Japanese release in September 2001, even though the GBA predates the Gamecube by several months itself.