Rematch - A hypothetical remake discussion.

[Battlecow]

Like the name. I support Zero... Although I think X needs in before him.

 

[ryuu seika]

I still don't understand whether or not "X" is the same character as "Megaman". He looks the same but from my experience seems to bear no other relation.

My personal Favourite would be Bass but I'd save him for Melee as Megaman and possibly Zero should come first and we don't want to overcrowd the roster with Megaman characters.

 

[asianaussie]

Rock Man (Megaman) was the original robot who fought for everlasting peace.

X is, in simple terms, a Rockman remade by Dr. Light and awakened 1000 years after the events of the NES games (well, all the games called Rock Man *number*). He's a bunch cooler but still fights for everlasting piece. Or something. The two share the same creator, that's all.

Just put X in and give him the Zero-Saber. Then give him alt costumes of Zero, GBA Zero and upgraded-X or something. It's not as if these games are canon anyway.

 

[ryuu seika]

So while we're discussing Megaman, any thoughts on his movelist?

Name: Megaman
Stage: Undecided (Possibly Gravityman's Domain)
Costumes:
P1 - Regular
P2 - X costume (?)
P3 - Protoman (?)
P4 - Zero costume (Change to Bass if Zero is in game)(?)
Party - (?)
Specials
^B - (?)
0B - Buster Cannon (Works like Samus' arm cannon)
vB - (?)
Air Moves
^a - Cannon Uppercut (Self explanatory, no?)(?)
0a - Basic Kick (Leg stays out and continues to hit until landing)(?)
<a - (?)
>a - (?)
va - (?)
Ground Moves
^a - Backward overhead Buster Swipe (?)
0a - Jab Jab Uppercut (Buster hand for final hit only)(?)
</>a - Spin Kick (?)
va - Ground Punch (Punches the ground with a minor area effect)(?)
^A - Back Flip Kick (?)
</>A - Cannon Punch (Works like Samus')(?)
vA - Ground Shot (An energy shot at the ground)(?)
>>A - Drop Kick (The slide used to get under things)(?)
Throws
[R] - Grab (A basic grab with his non-cannon hand)(?)
>R - (?)
<R - (?)
Ledge Moves
-100 - Quick Cannon Jab
+100 - Slow Rising Kick
Miscellaneous Stuff
None

 

[Surri-Sama]

Name: Megaman
Stage: Undecided (Possibly Gravityman's Domain)
Costumes:
P1 - Regular
P2 - X costume (?)
P3 - Protoman (?)
P4 - Zero costume (Change to Bass if Zero is in game)(?)
Party - (?)
Specials
^B - Power Slide
0B - Buster Cannon (Works like Samus' arm cannon)
vB - Projectile Armor (a faster version of ness' down B that only covers the front area of megaman...a bubble like barrier would be in front of him)
Air Moves
^a - Cannon Uppercut
0a - Sex Kick!
<a - Lunging Kick
>a - Spinning back hand (2 strikes)
va - Double Handed Spike (Similar to DKs)
Ground Moves
^a - Buster hand Swipe (like Dks and Pikas Utilt)
0a - jab, jab, uppercut
</>a - Spinning Kick
va - Ground Punch
^A - Back Flip Kick
</>A - Cannon Punch (Works like Samus')(?)
vA - Energy Shot at the Ground
>>A - Drop Kick (The slide used to get under things)(?)
Throws
[R] - Grab (A basic grab with his non-cannon hand)(?)
>R - (?)
<R - (?)
Ledge Moves
100% < - quick cannon punch
100% > - Slow rising kick
Miscellaneous Stuff
None

 

[asianaussie]

if zero is in he'll just be a pink marth with elemental specials

that is to say, less gay than marth

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

^^^^^^^
This:
LOLz!!!
Also I rather Zero than Marth.

 

[ryuu seika]

^B - Power Slide
vB - Projectile Armor (a faster version of ness' down B that only covers the front area of megaman...a bubble like barrier would be in front of him)
<a - Lunging Kick
>a - Spinning back hand (2 strikes)
va - Double Handed Spike (Similar to DKs)

Please explain these better. va is presumably based on his falling animation but I don't actually have the slightest idea what PK Flash does.

EDIT: also, I've considered the suggestion of a Rainbow Ride entirely on the ship and reached the conclusion that it could work and feel like an early version (exactly the feel we want for Melee onward stuff) if it worked like Corneria/Sector Z and had the various stage hazards pass by (jumpable on). I'm adding it to the possible stage list, along with a version of Bowser's SM64 arena that plays like FD but with an upto 20% tilt based on weight distribution.

 

[ryuu seika]

How about another mode where you pick a character, then fight their polygon version, with AI based on actual competitive play videos? Upon winning that, with every character, a boss known simply as "Master Polygon" would be unlocked, who would use nothing but specials but have access to those of every character. Finally, beating that would allow you to reface any of the polygons as any character.

 

[Battlecow]

That sounds really hilarious, actually. Good idea.

"A boss known simply as... MASTER POLYGON!"

you have a flair for the dramatic.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

And it'd also give another perspective to the game.
Sounds like fun!

 

[ryuu seika]

you have a flair for the dramatic.

I try. I have, after all, spent years perfecting my evil laugh.

Obviously this mode wouldn't come cheap as tournament data would not be available for the newcomers without some kind of big prize pre-release event but I think it would be worth it.

If such remakes became a recurring thing, I'd have Master Polygon have lost much of his power in Melee, forcing him to manifest in Wireframe form and then show his true form in Brawl after having found a magical metal that is the new source of his power (hence "alloys"). Possibly making the metal a result of the merged worlds somehow to tie in nicely with the original story.

 

[ryuu seika]

Lets move on shall we?
I say we look into Metaknight next as the challenge of not making him broken should be a good one.
Specials are my suggestions only and as I know no more about the character than what is in Brawl, they may well be inaccurate as regards his character.

Name: Metaknight
Stage: Undecided (Fountain of Dreams?)
Costumes:
P1 - Regular
P2 - Red Metaknight (?)
P3 - Grey Metaknight (?)
P4 - Green Metaknight (?)
Party - Clown Costume (Face paint instead of mask)(?)
Specials
^B - Uppercut (Like a smaller version of Marth's)(?)
0B - Meta Tornado (Works like before but either with no control over movement. Movement should be either straight forward or non-existent. If forward, MK should fall during the move if airborne)(?)
vB - Drill (Works like before but movement is straight forward or, if used in the air, down at 45 degrees)(?)
Air Moves
^a - (?)
0a - (?)
<a - (?)
>a - (?)
va - (?)
Ground Moves
^a - (?)
0a - (?)
</>a - (?)
va - (?)
^A - (?)
</>A - (?)
vA - (?)
>>A - (?)
Throws
[R] - (?)
>R - (?)
<R - (?)
Ledge Moves
-100 - (?)
+100 - (?)
Miscellaneous Stuff
None

 

[ryuu seika]

As you may or may not have noticed, I've added unplayables to the first post list. This includes "Replica World", the home stage of the master polygon.

Replica World is, as the name suggests, a copy of all the other stages, merged into one.
The stage starts out as a copy of FD in terms of shape, while visually looking a lot like Brawl's "Subspace" area. It soon changes, however, to mimic another stage at random. The chosen replicated stage keeps the basic shape of the original, though without any movement and still with the same half real appearance. After staying as that for a while, the stage will shift back to FD and later change to another stage. All stages must be used before a non-FD stage is repeated. All copied stage platforms are fully solid, no matter what they're like in the original stage. The background would be a swirling rainbow void, similar to that of F-Zero GX's "Phantom Road".
Movement between forms would be done similarly to the Pokemon Stadium stage in Melee and would occur approximately every twenty seconds.

Any thoughts on the idea?

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

A changeable stage? sounds like fun.
But what would be the switching time between platforms?

 

[ryuu seika]

Movement between forms would be done similarly to the Pokemon Stadium stage in Melee and would likely occur every 20-30 seconds.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

20 Sounds good, since matches in SSB64 tend to be shorter than Melee.

 

[ryuu seika]

Works for me.

EDIT: I've been thinking, do we really need both MK and Dedede?

 

[DMoogle]

I feel like an SSB Meta Knight would be more "overpowered" than Brawl Meta Knight is.

 

[ryuu seika]

I would have thought that the lack of control during his abilities would weaken him significantly but I can't be sure.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

As long as they get to be a little less than melee's, if we get to be sure about this:

I would have thought that the lack of control during his abilities would weaken him significantly but I can't be sure.

Then I don't see why not.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Lack of control?

 

[asianaussie]

this^^

Metaknight's tornado lets you move left/right with alarming pace and you can mash to rise or not mash to fall slightly.

His side-B can be angled any which way, his up-B goes straight into a glide, and his cape is directable.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Yeah, but they don't have to be exactly as their Melee version, I don't like them anyway, but the variety of characters would be good.

 

[ryuu seika]

Lack of control?

I was assuming that, as with most moves in 64, MK would have no control over his specials once they had started. The most he'd have might be a Firefox like pause to aim his drill at the beginning.

Also, I don't know Meta Knight outside of Brawl (lol at thinking he's in Melee) but I would have thought a lesser version of Marth's UpB would be good for him.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Well, Brawl then, sometimes I confuse the names. :S

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

uhhhh tornado would be god tier in this game

 

[asianaussie]

if smash was the olympics and each character was a country, the tornado would be michael phelps

you know, since he got more medals by himself than like 75% of the other countries

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Then the stocks the tornado killes should be shown in the stadistic at the end.

Pikachu
+2
-4

Fox
+1
-5

Tornado
+6
∞

 

[Mew2King]

if smash was the olympics and each character was a country, the tornado would be michael phelps

you know, since he got more medals by himself than like 75% of the other countries

i feel like this applies to my medals LOL http://allisbrawl.com/medals.aspx?id=7

 

[ryuu seika]

uhhhh tornado would be god tier in this game

Would it still be if it didn't move?
How about if it went straight forward all the time, effectively killing MK near edges?
Added ending lag?

It has to be fixable somehow.

If anybody actually thinks Metaknight is a bad character choice for a legitimate reason by all means say so but "broken in Brawl" is not a reason against a character's inclusion in another game.

 

[dtt?]

not sure if this has been mentioned yet, my friend and i were discussing today that removing the ability of moves like fox's fsmash to stop you at the ledge would be a nice balance for edgeguarding

 

[asianaussie]

So, this...forces them to use one of about six other arguably superior moves for edgeguarding instead? Even then, a successful F-Smash would kill them and force you to quickly jump back up anyway.

Sorry, wouldn't balance a thing.

 

[ballin4life]

eh just make ledge DI better / easier ... to go really far you could then make it so you can grab the ledge while in hitstun.

 

[sharksquail]

I was thinking about this the other day, and decided if I was going to add any chars it would be peach as a top tier DJC char, and bomber man as some kind of multi projectile char.

 

[Glöwworm]

Peach was originally gonna be in ssb64 so that idea isn't too farfetched

 

[Johnknight1]

Just add everything originally intended that didn't make it, whether characters, items, stages (all the ones on the disc included, like FD, BF, the Kirby Beta Stage, and the How to Play Stage), or features (more music=???).

Maybe balance the game to make characters like Samus and Link ridiculously strong and whatnot. Other than that, the game is good.

 

[Fish641]

peach as a top tier DJC char.

If we're balancing the game, why would we aim to add someone that's better than most?

 

[sharksquail]

If we're balancing the game, why would we aim to add someone that's better than most?

i don't see why ppl think that chars all need to be equally good. I think that having characters be unbalanced to an extent is what makes a good fighting game. one of my favorite things about 64 smash is that there is a clear top tier and bottom tier, but all characters are playable and give you a real chance of winning. people now a days always want huge character rosters and for every character to be good

 

[Fish641]

i don't see why ppl think that chars all need to be equally good.

It's for the same reason that we ban items; the sole deciding factor of who wins each game should be skill.