Religion: what is it good for? Absolutely nothing! Huah!

[PukeTShirt]

I have a challenge. I would like someone to tell me something good that has come out of religion that couldn't have been there anyway. I have been been thinking about this for a while and I can't think of any reason to believe in any kind of god, other than for weak minded people to latch onto something so that they won't feel like their life is out of control.

 

[Xsyven]

I have been been thinking about this for a while and I can't think of any reason to believe in any kind of god, other than for weak minded people to latch onto something so that they won't feel like their life is out of control.

Hope. Faith. Love. Life.

Am I weak minded for hoping for life after death? No, sir. You're weak minded for not being able to grasp such a concept.

 

[GoldShadow]

You're opening up a can of worms with this thread PukeT.


You have to realize very quickly that not everybody thinks like you; not everybody has the same type of mind as you. And you will never be able to change that. Someone who would like to believe that there's something else after all this (an afterlife, in other words) is not weak-minded for doing so.

The sooner you understand this, the less cynical and jaded you will be and the less you will hate people and humanity in general.

 

[AltF4]

This gets hairy even in the debate hall. Don't expect an intellectually rousing argument from the pool room.

EDIT: But while we're here, let's make some flame bait.

Hope. Faith. Love.Life

The question didn't ask "what do YOU get from religion", but "what do you get that you couldn't otherwise."


I surely hope you're not insinuating that atheists are incapable of love.

Am I weak minded for hoping for life after death? No, sir. You're weak minded for not being able to grasp such a concept.

Well, which is it? Do you believe in the afterlife, or do you hope for it. I'm an atheist and I hope for an afterlife. I really do. I hope I'm wrong and that there is an afterlife, it would be awesome. I think far too many people confuse hoping for something and actually believing it.

 

[AHotGreasedUpJigglyPuff 4 Luvin']

If you want to stay scientific about it all, a bunch of studies have been done that correlate religion to better health. Religion helps people come to manage their stress by bringing them together, giving them hope for the future, providing feelings of "ultimate acceptance" (as my psychology book so keenly puts it), and prayer is a kind of calming meditation.

 

[PukeTShirt]

Im not saying I hate anything, im just wondering if someone can give me a good point. I'm an atheist and I have Hope, Love and life. Just not faith in something that can't be proven, and has caused a whole lot of people a whole lot of pain.
You don't need religion to be happy, or to think that you're life is worth something.

And i know i'm opening a real fat can of worms with this, that's kinda the idea. as long as it doesn't devolve into a flame war, then im happy.

 

[PukeTShirt]

If you want to stay scientific about it all, a bunch of studies have been done that correlate religion to better health. Religion helps people come to manage their stress by bringing them together, giving them hope for the future, providing feelings of "ultimate acceptance" (as my psychology book so keenly puts it), and prayer is a kind of calming meditation.

Really? I have never heard of anything like this, though I can see where it could stem from. Good point. I just wish sometimes people could do these things without clinging to something that causes so many issues and so much hate in the world.

EDIT: sorry for double post!!

 

[AHotGreasedUpJigglyPuff 4 Luvin']

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. People tend to get a little overzealous when they think that they're the ones who are right and everyone else is absolutely wrong.

And I agree, you don't need religion to be happy, but it sure does help me.

 

[commonyoshi]

...than for weak minded people to latch onto something so that they won't feel like their life is out of control.

I never felt that my life sucked before I became a Christian. I was doing just fine up until the summer right before freshman year of highschool when all of a sudden God, since I have no better way to describe it, caught my attention one day. I wasn't going through any trouble or anything classified as out of control.

And I dont believe in God just because I want to go to heaven after I die. I look forward to it, but that's not why I'm a Christian. I'm a Christian because God is worth living for. That's the bottom line.

Religion has been such a big part of human existance, it's hard to think of things that would never would have come without it. Maybe we wouldn't look down on adultery, violence, anger, drunkeness, or selfishness? Who knows. It's impossible to tell, really.

 

[Tryptomine]

If you want to stay scientific about it all, a bunch of studies have been done that correlate religion to better health. Religion helps people come to manage their stress by bringing them together, giving them hope for the future, providing feelings of "ultimate acceptance" (as my psychology book so keenly puts it), and prayer is a kind of calming meditation.

Yep, quite true. Even if it is just a placebo effect.

 

[Mic_128]

Order.

Before science could show things such as the planet moving around the earth, people had to come up with something, so it was a god pulling this big ball of light across the sky with his winged charriot. Or we don't know where we came from, so maybe this was here all along and a god made it all. What was the alternative? Panic most likely. "Giant big light ball! It hurts my eyes! It moves, must be hunting me, aaaaaaaah!"

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I, too, am Christian. I don't think I'm weak minded at all for believing in a higher power. I can grasp the theories of science and whatnot and understand their perspective but when it comes right down to it, faith truly is the only thing that you can rely on when believing in God. I'm not going to try and disprove the scientific theories or whatever or push the Bible on you like all these other people that don't understand what it TRULY means to be faithful. God wants us to teach those that will listen. Not frighten or kill those that won't.

I, for one, believe that Purgatory does exist. I just can't grasp why God would be so merciless as to d*** innocent people to hell or those that don't understand or want to accept it. But the majority of what else I believe in is mainly Protestant. I don't believe the Pope can talk to God and I don't believe a preach can forgive your sins. They're just men. What the hell are men going to do for me? Only God can tell you if you're saved or not.

As for crime and suffering in the world, common has a good point. Also, God gave us free will so the way the world is now is completely our faults. Those that don't want to admit it just want to point to God and blame him because they can't blame themselves. If you're atheist and say "Well if God exists, then why is there so much suffering in the world?" Alright then, let's assume for a moment that God doesn't exist. Why IS there so much suffering in the world? Mankind. That's why.

Man has polluted the world, killed others, destroyed land, tarnished every bit of good you can see. Do you know it's a proven fact that if all our nations didn't spend money on war and weapons we could feed every single person on this planet and world hunger would exist no more? That we would have enough money to find more cures to deadly diseases? That we could all be united?

I don't have too much faith in mankind. But I have plenty of faith in God.

 

[Blackadder]

Happiness, and a feeling of safety.

Many people use religion as a proof/hope that an After-Life is there, and that life HAS a point. Makes people feel safer in the gaint universe, to think that a God loves them.

While I may not believe in God, that all sounds good to me.
..even if I don't think that there is life after death.

 

[Crimson King]

And I dont believe in God just because I want to go to heaven after I die. I look forward to it, but that's not why I'm a Christian. I'm a Christian because God is worth living for. That's the bottom line.

Gained my respect with that quote.

As for me? I bounce from deist to atheist to agnostic like crazy depending on my mood and the fact that sometimes I want to believe there is magic in the world - because that's what god would be, magic. But then it's really hard to go against what I feel in that about religion I feel pure apathy. There is a long story that I've thought of turning into an essay one day about my realization of atheism for a while. I don't really feel comfortable posting it out here though.

 

[CodeBlack]

Ok. I'm an atheist and I'll answer this topic.

Religion has, though the ages given both good and bad sides to the spectrum.

True, it has been the crux of countless useless wars and persecutions, but that was when it was used as excuses by bigots and power hungry leaders.

However, anything that can give hope and determination to the poor and the downtrodden, and help usher in golden ages of knowledge (yes, it has happened) and peace, for as long as they last, has it's point and it's respect in my eyes. Ever look at the good that various religions have given the world? Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, etc, to name a few, have all done their good (though, of course, Christianity is more often assiociated by non-Christians with the persecutions done in it's name).

I'd say, all in all, the world is better with religion here. Hell, if religion wasn't here, the wars and bad effects probably have happened, just in a different venue. People tend to be like that, through the ages.

 

[Desruprot]

Whatever Faith is worth, it is worth to the individual, I personally do not follow any sect of any type of religion, but I still have something of my own...I am more closer to an Idealist... overall with religion come war since other people think differently then you or someone else...

 

[CodeBlack]

Whatever Faith is worth, it is worth to the individual, I personally do not follow any sect of any type of religion, but I still have something of my own...I am more closer to an Idealist... overall with religion come war since other people think differently then you or someone else...

Not all people are prone to violence when other people think differently than I do, especially in today's day and age, people are more likely to be accepting. It's just that the type of person who is prone to such is usually the one who comes into the capacity to cause war and suffering. Sad but true. Somehow the ignorant and power-hungry are the ones who typically come into power, as when those who aren't as such come into power they are shut down by the ignorant and power-hungry, either through subtle acion or outright violence.

My opinion is that religion is only bad if one imposes their beliefs on others (which is why I hate missionaries). I'm all accepting of any religion, but it must be one's choice, not the choice of others. I'm more of a philosopher myself.

 

[voittaa711]

I'm glad to see that this topic isn't a huge flame war. We are respecting each others opinions. Usually topics like this are "THERE IS NO GOD NOOB!" "YUH HUH THERE IS! YOU DUMB ATHEIST YOU'RE GOIN TO HELL" and stuff like that.

Believe in what you want, just make sure to live your life how YOU want to and with no regrets.

 

[AltF4]

It's still early, give it time.

 

[PukeTShirt]

Order.

Before science could show things such as the planet moving around the earth, people had to come up with something, so it was a god pulling this big ball of light across the sky with his winged charriot. Or we don't know where we came from, so maybe this was here all along and a god made it all. What was the alternative? Panic most likely. "Giant big light ball! It hurts my eyes! It moves, must be hunting me, aaaaaaaah!"

That's the thing, I can see what you are saying, and it especially fits with ancient societies and cultures. It's my opinion that though that at this point we should be able to accept that we don't know everything and we will have to investigate things to figure them out. I think humanity wastes alot of time on things like religion and social status.

Happiness, and a feeling of safety.

Many people use religion as a proof/hope that an After-Life is there, and that life HAS a point. Makes people feel safer in the gaint universe, to think that a God loves them.

While I may not believe in God, that all sounds good to me.
..even if I don't think that there is life after death.

I asked what you gain out of religion that you can't get otherwise. I'm a very happy person, and I have a feeling of safety that doesn't rely on something I can't see, can't touch, can't experience in any way supposedly until I'm dead. I would rather feel safe among things that i can relate to, not things that other people have told me. I also live by the creed that my life has a point, even if it is only to bring happiness to those around me and to myself, so i don't need religion to feel like I have a purpose.

 

[fluffy]

Religion causes war. War eventuallly ends in peace.

 

[AltF4]

No it doesn't. War eventually ends in a brief period before another war. If that's what you call peace, then sure.

 

[fluffy]

Of course it's a brief period before another war. Nothing lasts forever. It's like a cycle.

 

[KAFOR]

Without Christianity, the world would fall into oblivion.

 

[AltF4]

See, there we go. My day just isn't complete without someone telling me I'm going to hell for not believing in what they believe. And here I was worried.

 

[CodeBlack]

Religion causes war. War eventuallly ends in peace.

I wouldn't say that. People cause war. Religion's just and excuse. People have become obsessive over one thing or another. Differing cultures have always existed, and intolerance has existed just as long. The three main causes of war are intolerance, greed, and ambition. In the hands of the right person, religion, or, more accurately, culture (as religion is a part of culture) will cause peace and prosperity.

See, there we go. My day just isn't complete without someone telling me I'm going to hell for not believing in what they believe. And here I was worried.

It's only one person, don't get to much into it. Like someone said earlier, the rest of us are being respectful of eachother's beliefs.

 

[Crimson King]

Without Christianity, the world would fall into oblivion.

Hmm, interesting because before Christianity was officially formed, the world seemed quite fine and I can't really recall any major wars during that period.

 

[AltF4]

It's only one person, don't get to much into it. Like someone said earlier, the rest of us are being respectful of eachother's beliefs.

I know. Just poking some fun. Chances are the guy's just flaming for the sake of flaming, anyway.

Honestly, I don't feel like religion causes(ed) war. Organized religion causes(ed) war. I would pit organized religion as one of the worst things that ever happened to humanity. That is how leaders use religion to manipulate and control the masses. It divides people, forces them to pick sides and insist that they are correct and others are wrong. Religious leaders have such a control over their followers, it's astounding. How do so many people not realize that they're being controlled? Force fed propaganda from men, not god, that isn't even in the literature. (persecution of gays)

You can be a religious man and do so personally. Guess what, do you really think god cares if you don't make it to church? That wasn't even his idea. That whole mass thing was made up by men as a system of control. The church decides on what will become dogma, and has a regular outlet from which to dispense their propaganda in a convincing manner.

If I were to believe in a god, it wouldn't be the personal sort of god. Not the kind you can talk to, as if he cared about the day to day activities of humans. In fact, the idea that god is in any way similar to humans is a testament to humans' arrogance. God would have to be the rule enforcer, the law maker. We know how the world works, (for the most part) but we can't explain why it works the way it does, or why it's here at all. If there is a god, I'd imagine that would be his job.

 

[KAFOR]

Hmm, interesting because before Christianity was officially formed, the world seemed quite fine and I can't really recall any major wars during that period.

Read the history of Sodom and Gomorrah and the evil that risen from there. The Earth had to be destroyed because of the evil of that age.

 

[AltF4]

Oh, man! All that and he replies to CK?! Apparently I can't bait flame even with posts doused in gasoline...

Be gentle with Kafor, looks like he surfaced from the brawl rooms... you know how that goes...

 

[Cs_Nexus]

Religion has given good/evil people the ability to kill you and get away with it!

Why? cause your opposite...
ie.
I must cleanse the world of non-Christians for they are evil...
I must cleanse the world of Jews for they are evil...
I must cleanse the world of gays for they are evil...
I must cleanse the world of poor for they are evil...
I must cleanse the world of communists for they are evil...

-Religion
-Wealth
-Race
-Sex
-Politics

All these things do is seperate us!

Dont let anyone Divide and Conquer us.

 

[PukeTShirt]

AltF4 you are saying exactly what i believe too. Being spiritual is one thing, belonging and conforming to an organized religion is way different, and something that does the planet and humanity a whole lot of bad.

 

[AltF4]

...well... I didn't say that I was spiritual...

Just that were I to believe in a god...

Kind of like OJ's book "If I Did It"... purely hypothetical...

 

[pdk]

if there's one thing that's good about it, it provides for hours of entertainment with college kids and hippies going OH MAN YOU WEAK MINDED PEOPLE

i'm far from being religious, but seriously if you're going to go out on a limb and declare that religion is just a mental crutch then what puts you apart from fred phelps and whoever the hell other zealots you can name?

 

[Cs_Nexus]

if there's one thing that's good about it, it provides for hours of entertainment with college kids and hippies going OH MAN YOU WEAK MINDED PEOPLE

i'm far from being religious, but seriously if you're going to go out on a limb and declare that religion is just a mental crutch then what puts you apart from fred phelps and whoever the hell other zealots you can name?

IT is no Crutch thats disinformation!!!!

religion is control / blind submissiveness!

 

[Snake King 1]

I have a challenge. I would like someone to tell me something good that has come out of religion that couldn't have been there anyway. I have been been thinking about this for a while and I can't think of any reason to believe in any kind of god, other than for weak minded people to latch onto something so that they won't feel like their life is out of control.

that's just sad you're too dumb to realize true happiness in God and Jesus they give you hope and everything else

 

[Snake King 1]

Religion has given good/evil people the ability to kill you and get away with it!

Why? cause your opposite...
ie.
I must cleanse the world of non-Christians for they are evil...
I must cleanse the world of Jews for they are evil...
I must cleanse the world of gays for they are evil...
I must cleanse the world of poor for they are evil...
I must cleanse the world of communists for they are evil...

-Religion
-Wealth
-Race
-Sex
-Politics

All these things do is seperate us!

Dont let anyone Divide and Conquer us.

NO one is evil but does evil
none of those things are evil maybe commies
the last 4 seperate us, but we can learn to respect other religion

 

[AltF4]

You know what's evil? Double posting.

 

[Cs_Nexus]

NO one is evil but does evil

Evil can and is ignorance...
fear not evil but the indifference of good man

 

[omfgomfg]

cs... nexus....