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Redoing Yoshi Matchup (If it becomes spam, I will lock this)

illinialex24

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Since the last discussion thread did not even come close to expectation, I tried to finish it off as soon as possible. Because of this, I have gotten a lot of complaints and I wanted to redo the matchup the entire time, but to try to make sure that it would not degenerate into a spam fest. So if this becomes in the slightest bit flamey, I will report my own post and this will become locked and I will use another method.

Here is the original matchup numbers and description I wrote:
Yoshi::Jigglypuff -- 55:45 Yoshi
Description: This is a very different matchup for Jigglypuff but it is manageable, because Yoshi is the only character in the game that surpasses her aerial speed. This really makes her spacing a lot more difficult than most matchups, but if she gets accustomed, it can almost become even but Yoshi still has more options than her. The good news is that pound is a beast in this game, Yoshi's barely shield so it is hard to punish, screws with spot dodgers, and really beats out his aerials unless he has super armor from his second jump (just watch out for anything he does from his second jump, your best bet is to air dodge and try to punish him once the super armor is gone). Rising pound when Yoshi is on the ground really screws with his options as well, its much harder for him to grab you (even pivot grabs or the dragonic reverse which helps). This is also counters very easily the really bad egg roll, which can also be punished very well by a perfect rest, and rising pound if spaced well nullifies Yoshi's U-smash, which really kills her in this matchup. However, Yoshi's bair is a monster and can really hurt her, and Jigglypuff is forced to approach here. Although eggs are not as good as Falco's lasers, they can get preliminary damage and hurt her fairly badly if hit. However, she is fairly good at avoiding them but they force her to approach. Yoshi's uair is a real danger to Jigglypuff with its super armor on a second jump, so just air dodge if a Yoshi does that, other you are fairly safe. Be careful on the ground here because he can grab you fairly easily.

As far as gimping him, he is fairly hard to gimp because of his super armor on his second jump and the fact that he can recover while air-dodging. Your best option is to get a sweet spotted fair (mid 40's) or an nair or sour spotted fair (mid 60's) on him and then footstool him to successfully gimp him. However, this will be very rare and shouldn't be counted upon. Rollout almost never works because of his eggs and his egg roll, so try not to use it. And never recovery with it because it gives him a free option to uair kill you.

For stages you should ban Final Destination because the open area really leaves you open to egg spam, tempts you to use rollout, and gives you no option to avoid the egg spam with ledge stalling (unlike on Smashville). If ledge stalling for a fair amount of time is allowed, then you should counterpick on Castle Seige because the last part of it is amazing for Jigglypuff. It really allows her to gimp Yoshi more consistently than anywhere else even with the difficulties, and the smaller area but flat area makes it like an amazing Smashville. Jungle Japes is great as well because the high ceiling really protects her from U-smash and uair. The ledges also screw around with Yoshi badly, and rollout wins here well because of the ledges and the fact that egg roll does nothing here except put you in the water. Finally, Norfair really screws with any approach of Yoshi and is a great stage for her.
Please discuss the overall matchup and how to redo it now.
 

Chaco

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Well, after matches with quite a few Jiggly mains. I have come to the decision it is 6:4. When I played Alex, my main method of racking damage was pivot grabbing and Usmash. This is the best way to do so. Usmash beasts Jiggly in every way, even when they know it's coming, you've got the speed on them before they can react to it, or atleast was happening to me. I also noticed that Yoshi using an aggressive Egg+Edge game kept you at bay and racked damage well. I also set up spikes with short eggs, which for some reason is a lot easier against Jiggly. This was always good for early kills and putting me further ahead.

But the main things to note are:
Pivot grab a lot (Rollout-Aerials)
Spotdodge OOS (On Dair, because if they are not careful with resting afterwards they're your *****)
Usmash (Best thing to use period. It so much of a much changer.)
Eggs (Just bait with eggs, and keep a watchful eye.)

Offstage: Dair to Nair (Screws Jiggly up Pretty bad, especially if you catch her on like the 2nd-3rd jump.)
 

Metatitan

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from what i saw when i played alex he didnt really have any yoshi experience. alex don't tell them to ban final D, ban battlefield. that stage makes yoshi's usmash 5x better than it already is. up close, yoshi has no answer to pound except a pivot grab, but knowing the matchup id only use pound to punish a direct approach (say a usmash). i dont know any jigglypuff experienced in the matchup that would go after a yoshi off stage (risk of getting egg layed or spiked). as jigglypuff in this matchup, her kill moves can be DACUS (very useful in this matchup), fair (dont stale this one u guys), and rest- whether ur resting his jab, usmash, uair, bair, nair etc.

As a yoshi in this matchup, usmash is so tempting because it really works well on jigglypuff, except u stale it and the puff ends up living to 140% or so. camp. camping works, but its not as strong as it was made out to be in the previous discussion. jigglypuff can airdodge past your eggs and grab you. pivot grabs mixed in help prevent this but half the time ur gonna get grabbed. dont just camp the whole time, when u see an opening go for it and bair. keeping your usmash fresh will kill jiggs much earlier on. uair is normally a save finisher, unreliable because shes so maneuverable in the air. Ive only rested it once (ask dyz and he'll confirm this) and its not exactly ez to rest this move so yes its a safe finisher. egg lay gets nice hits in now and again and most importantly, DO NOT JAB WHEN YOU ARE IN KILL%. If you are facing me you will get rested. ill probly add more when i have more time. Chaco mentioned earlier that dair to nair screws jiggs pretty badly, go ahead and do this if u feel like getting gimped. She can just airdodge the dair and gimp you out of recovery with bair.

50:50; i see this as perfectly even, they both have things to screw eachother
 

Chaco

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Okay not to be rude to Alex or anything. But out of about 6 matches he beat me once, and barely at that. This is not an even match up.
 

Metatitan

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Okay not to be rude to Alex or anything. But out of about 6 matches he beat me once, and barely at that. This is not an even match up.
as i said earlier, alex does not know how to fight a yoshi. most jigglypuffs here do not; in fact i may be one of the few that do. trust me chaco its even, she takes on burntsock's yoshi just fine (although he wins more cuz his yoshi is just so sexy). stocky <3 <3 <3
 

Chaco

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....okay, whatever, I'm pretty sure he said he never uses Yoshi online though.
 

Chaco

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Also, if your Jiggs is like Metatitan's....this match up is 50:50....
 

PND

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My Jiggs is, and I have massive Yoshi experience. It's not 60-40 for either side, that's ridiculous. 55-45 either way to 50-50 is the range it should stay in. Right now I think it's leaning towards 55-45 Yoshi adv
 

Metatitan

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My Jiggs is, and I have massive Yoshi experience. It's not 60-40 for either side, that's ridiculous. 55-45 either way to 50-50 is the range it should stay in. Right now I think it's leaning towards 55-45 Yoshi adv
theres really no reason aside from egg lay that the number should drift from 50:50; and if a yoshi tries to spam that its easily punished
 

RhedKing

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I like 50:50 as well, seems like a noble fight!

(this post has a purpose)

Jigg's may have the 51:49 advantage though because of her grabs, and pound. pound is pretty hard o out class even for yoshi with his longer than average range. then again, yoshi controls the spacing with his egg throw, so maybe 51:49 yoshi. :laugh:

(see, it did!)
 

Chaco

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I stopped reading after " his better than averange range". He literally has 0 range.
 

Furbs

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considering i can consistently beat gnes's jiggs (and he's one of the best in texas) with yoshi i think there is something about the matchup in yoshi's favor


One of my friends uses jiggs and hes coming up for the weekend, i'll get some vids up

i also use jiggs occasionally
 

Spoonbob

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considering i can consistently beat gnes's jiggs (and he's one of the best in texas) with yoshi i think there is something about the matchup in yoshi's favor


One of my friends uses jiggs and hes coming up for the weekend, i'll get some vids up

i also use jiggs occasionally
The Yoshi matchup for Jiggs is super reliant on actually knowing how to play against Yoshi. That's the only reason it becomes unwinnable.

If you are consistently beating him with Yoshi, then you may simply be a better player or he just doesn't know the matchup.
 

Metatitan

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The Yoshi matchup for Jiggs is super reliant on actually knowing how to play against Yoshi. That's the only reason it becomes unwinnable.

If you are consistently beating him with Yoshi, then you may simply be a better player or he just doesn't know the matchup.
trufax, the only yoshi mains ive played that have given me trouble are dyz, scatz and stocky, and by trouble i mean it was pretty even :p
 
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