Recovery Tier List (Updated 1-5-07)

[OnYourMark]

I agree with mood4food and EB360. I play as both Ness and Marth (along with other characters also), and in my opinion, Ness should be above Marth.
Ness's second jump is spectacular, while Marth's is very limited. Ness definately has a longer horizontal recovery. Ness has a better chance than Marth in landing an edge grab. Ness's Up+B is more versatile, and his air dodge is better. Ness is very much invulnerable: he can even knock over someone with a hammer and can kill fairly easily with Up+B (unlike Marth).
Bad things for Ness? "Charge up" time: it takes a while, but Fox and Falco are just as bad. Vulnerability during "charge up": it's quite easy to make sure that Ness's thunder doesn't hit someone, though it takes some experience and skill.

 

[Wave⁂]

interestingly enough, i play some of the most underrated recoveries in the game. Ness and Bowser.

then again, my main is Samus.....

Ness is less vulnerable than the space animals...

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

-No debate about Jiggly
-Mewtwo has a good recovery(with second jump, sideb, fully charged B, followed by up b) yes but I doubt higher than Samus
-Peach definatly higher then Pika and Pichu and for that matter I think peach should be in the top tier (Great DI, Toad, Levitating, Parasol)
-Fox is good could be lower
-Kirby could be higher (good DI great vertical UpB Floating)
-I might have missed something but I don't think Shiek is higher than Zelda recovery wise
-Ganon has spectacular recovery with the whole DownB infinate jump thing
-Yoshi that high.. WHAT ARE YOU NUTS?!?!?!?!?! sure his second jump is great but if he gets knocked far under the level hes done
-personaly I think marth has a much worse recovery then DK sure DK has horrible vertical but when you think about it would you have more trouble keeping marth off the level or the all mighty DONKEY COPTER
-I think there was a whole page discussion one why G&W should be higher so i'm gunna let that sink in
-Luigi is about right I think he could be a little higher
-once again I think there was another page discussion on why ness should be higher then bowser
-Mario great recovery it covers vertical recovery really well along with keeping him from falling too far down
-The Doc higher then Falco by far I think right below mario simply cause his weight makes it harder
- C. Falcon should be higher I mean sure he lacks the infinate jump Ganon has but with great DI Falcons upb is spectacular
-For the last two spots Falco then Roy (no one seems to be argueing Roy's recovery so i'm not gunna bother with it either)

whew that took a while (don't know why I bothered not like any one listens to my opinion anyways)

 

[Linguini]

Ganon should be above young link due to his rediculous distance provided by the down-b.

 

[Fletch]

- C. Falcon should be higher I mean sure he lacks the infinate jump Ganon has but with great DI Falcons upb is spectacular

Falcon can use his down-B to regain another jump, however, the distance his down-B moves is much greater, so it is usually only helpful along with good DI placing Falcon high above the stage.

-I might have missed something but I don't think Shiek is higher than Zelda recovery wise

Sheik has the ability to alter the trajectory of her up-B twice, and the landing lag of Zelda's is horrible, which is why Sheik's is higher although it is a shorter distance.

 

[Wave⁂]

we need an explanation in the first post ;_;

Fox is very vulnerable to attacks like marth's dtilt, or yoshi's dilt.

Ganon has infinite jumps via his vB.

yoshi has an air dodge, so just air dodge when your opponent is about to hit you.

 

[mood4food77]

g&w should be higher, much higher, right where the ICs are, i was playing him the other day and he seemed to be able to recover from anywhere, and try edgegaurding him, it's pretty hard, there's no way marth has that good of recovery, i hate marth's recovery with a passion, it's pretty bad, i think that dk, bowser, ness, and g&w have better recoveries than he does, also they can recover from being edgegaurded much better than he can and also that they're harder to edgegaurd than him too

 

[Wave⁂]

GAW is good, but it takes a bit of practice to sweet spot it consistantly. also, edgehogging.

 

[marthsword]

Why will no one understand how much better pichu's recovery is than Pika! Pichu's up b can go in ANY direction, and has a great distance, and can be sweetspotted right out of. Pika's is slightly faster, but can only go in 8 directions. Pichu's is TWO times less predictable. Also, pichu has a MUCH better second jump, and can walljump! Pichu's recovery is simply incredible.


How is fox better than peach?

Pichu should...

A) take samus spot (top tier)

B) Be moved up one spot at least

C) Have Pika move down


How is fox above kirby and peach and G&W?

 

[Wave⁂]

WAOH there. pichu is in no way better than samus. no way. perhaps above ganon.

How is fox above kirby and peach and G&W? FOX IS NOT ABOVE PEACH. that'd be funny....


PICHU:

walljump
infinite edgehog
further ^B
more controllable ^B
fall slower

 

[Mcscruff]

marth's recovery isn't as bad as everyone says it is, i think it marth should be a little higher. he has decent horizontal recovery and really good vertical recovery.

 

[B-Will]

heh, finally someone who sides with me about marth's recovery, i love his recovery its too good.

yes, i will provide an explanation in the first post of the new rankings that i will put up soon. i swear, i will put them up lol. once again, i havent gotten around to sorting everyones comments.

in the meantime, please go to my sig for videos of myself playing in a recent tourney and post some comments in that thread. i would greatly appreciate it!

 

[Wave⁂]

marth's.....it's not that it is bad, so much that is isnt good. hit him out ONCE, and he dead.

 

[Deus]

I think that samus by far has the best recovery. First of all she can pretty much recover from anywhere and It's almost a guarantee she's going to grab the ledge thanks to being able to stall with bombs and a grapple. So unless you have a projectile that can mess her up (needles come to mind) most of the edgeguarding done against samus is just predicting what shes going to do from the ledge. Plus her up B is pretty high priority.

Peach's recovery is definetly better than pichus and pikachus imo. She can just recover extremely high out of harms way most of the time and has a lot of options from there. She can make it back to the top platform on some stages before the oppenents get there, she can just go straight down with an airdodge to avoid an attack, fake for the stage and then fast fall back on the ledge, etc. Obviously it will depend on the situation. Then for down low recovery her up b will out prioritize most aerial edgeguards from an opponent that goes off the ledge to get you or most characters trying to intercept you with an attack on the ledge. And for avoiding edgeguards shes got the peach bomber and toad for stalling.

M2 seems kinda high to me... it just doesn't seem like he has that many options and can be predictable but I honestly don't have much experience fighting a good M2.

And about the comments of Zelda's landing lag... it seems almost the exact same as shieks, they are both awful and will both generally result in a fsmash to the face.

 

[Wave⁂]

her recovery is good, but predicatable, and easy to interfere with. without her grapple, she got almost nothing.

mewtwo:
huge second jump
extended second jump
lots of drifting distance
sweetspot
confusion

 

[Deus]

Well, I'd say M2's is far more predictable since he can't really stall at all and I don't see how samus' is easy to intefere with besides maybe turnips and needles. She can recover from so low with the grapple that you can't reach her and even if you could she can usually pop out a sex kick to stop you and still grapple safely.

I can live with Jiggly being higher than Samus but I definetly think she should be above Mewtwo

 

[Wave⁂]

it is predicable, but his infinite ledge hang is very useful.

true, her recovery is good, but without grapple.....said that already. there is lots of lag when using her grapple, not to mention how vulnerable you are when laying a bomb.

 

[Deus]

Yea, Samus would suck without her grapple.... just like jiggs would suck without her pound... I don't really get your point there.

I don't really see her grapple having much lag... but even so the point with her bombs and grapple is that she can recover so low that you can't touch her. It doesn't really matter if it makes her vulnerable because you can't reach her.

 

[mood4food77]

look at how bad samus' recovery is on a stage where she can't grapple the ledge, when she uses and airdodge and grapple in the air, it goes farther than her up b does, without the grapple, her recovery would only be mediocre like it is on DK 64 or mute city, like jiggs would be only mediocre without her pound

 

[Earthbound360]

Well, couldn't the same apply for Mewtwo? Without his mid-air jump, his recovery isn't as great. It's still good though with reverse shadow ball, confusion, and teleport.

 

[Deus]

mute city sure but she can manage on dk 64 with just bombing to the barrel or bombing to under the stage and up b through it if shes close enough. She always has her grapple cancel or whatever its called where she just uses the grappel to get about a double jump worth of height instead of hooking to the stage.

 

[mood4food77]

her DI isn't the greatest, she may be extremely floaty, but it's not as good as it should be, her ledge grab reach sucks, it's really bad for the fact how tall she is (why do smaller characters have better grab reach than taller characters), and her bomb's can be intercepted easier than people think, ICs, peach, link, and y. link can do it without leaving the stage, and most character can do it if they jump out and take the damage from one

also, DK 64 is one of the worst stages for samus because she can make it back easily

 

[Magus420]

How can ____ character have "good" DI. That doesn't make any sense. And yes, Zelda and Sheik have the exact same landing lag.

 

[Deus]

Yea, I don't understand her not having good DI... If you mean air control, her air control is fantastic in bomb form. Her bombs really aren't that easily intercepted if the samus knows what they're doing.

 

[mood4food77]

air control is another type of DI, it's great, but not as good as it should be, and yes the bombs can be intercepted easier than you think because she hase to go in a straight line for at least 2 bombs to perform the bomb jump

 

[Brookman]

Yea, I don't understand her not having good DI... If you mean air control, her air control is fantastic in bomb form. Her bombs really aren't that easily intercepted if the samus knows what they're doing.

*jumps into samus' bombs*

They aren't easy to intercept if the samus knows how to teach her bombs to wavedash back and forward tilt.

 

[Magus420]

Air control is air control. Is walking/running another type of DI?

 

[Brookman]

Air control is air control. Is walking/running another type of DI?

only with mewtwo, cause when he runs he is floating, which means he is in the air, which means you are DI'ing towards where ever you are running.

 

[mood4food77]

no, DI is the effect of controlling a character's direction in the air, the only exception to this rule is CC since it is a form of effecting your character's expected projectory but the character is still on the ground

air control means you are changing your projected direction in the air, not from being hit though

 

[Brookman]

Sarcasm is not your friend.

 

[Magus420]

no, DI is the effect of controlling a character's direction in the air, the only exception to this rule is CC since it is a form of effecting your character's expected projectory but the character is still on the ground

CC isn't an individual form of DI either, just a combination of things. It is crouching which reduces knockback (not DI), ASDI down which keeps you grounded (is DI), and the ASDI is often assissted by directional DI (is DI). Also, is smash DIing up when hit on the ground not DI then?

 

[mood4food77]

i never said it was an individual form of DI, it's an exception to the rule in which it changes the path of your character's projected trajectory into another direction, basically CC is DIing down while on the ground sending you out but while on the ground

 

[Magus420]

i never said it was an individual form of DI, it's an exception to the rule in which it changes the path of your character's projected trajectory into another direction

SDI and ASDI don't change your trajectory. Do they not count as DI or do they also fall under the exceptions to the mood4food rules and regulations of DI?

basically CC is DIing down while on the ground sending you out but while on the ground

Specifically CC is crouching + ASDI downwards + directional DI (technically optional but usually downwards), cancelling your vertical knockback on the first frame of knockback (if the knockback wouldn't be strong enough to send you into the tumble animation you remain standing, otherwise you fall down/tech), and applying the horizontal knockback to the character's/stage's traction ratings .

 

[mood4food77]

SDI and ASDI can change the path of trajectory, not all the time but they can, they can also shorten it, but isn't DI moving your control stick into any direction to change your projected trajectory, if you hold the stick in the opposite direction of your projected trajectory, it shortens it, it seemed that i forgot about normal DI...

 

[Razed]

Is this recovery based on them JUST getting back on or also attempting to get back on while the opponent is edgegaurding?

 

[Magus420]

SDI and ASDI can change the path of trajectory, not all the time but they can, they can also shorten it, but isn't DI moving your control stick into any direction to change your projected trajectory, if you hold the stick in the opposite direction of your projected trajectory, it shortens it, it seemed that i forgot about normal DI...

¿Qué?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218

Is this recovery based on them JUST getting back on or also attempting to get back on while the opponent is edgegaurding?

Yes, it includes how easily they are edgeguarded.

 

[Brookman]

any form of smash DI has a very minimal effect on your over-all distance and 0 effect on trajectory. Smash DI only helps for the little distance you move in hit-lag when you smash DI, changing your trajectory and the distance etc is known as good DI, or "Driving the car" PC chris style.

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

in no way is pika's recovery better then peachs because on every map with a flat ledge she can float straight to it and can't be hit by any attacks parallel to the ledge. only attacks that go through the ledge can hit u like marths down tilt but his forward smash wouldnt hit. This is an automatic sweet spot, it allows for perfect control and if u are hit u still have her b - up and the fast fall, fast fall cancel ability of the parasol. Peach definatly has more control and ability in her recovery then pikachu. Also she like doesnt die on FD unless she is smashed and shes hotter XD.

 

[Deus]

*jumps into samus' bombs*

They aren't easy to intercept if the samus knows how to teach her bombs to wavedash back and forward tilt.

by the time shes close enough that you could jump into one of her bombs she would already be close enough to airdodge and grapple the ledge... I've never seen anyone effectivly edgeguard her by jumping into one of her bombs.

 

[nitro-blazer]

by the time shes close enough that you could jump into one of her bombs she would already be close enough to airdodge and grapple the ledge... I've never seen anyone effectivly edgeguard her by jumping into one of her bombs.

I've done it accidentally with Jiggs while trying to Bair.